There is still some work left to be done. I still have some work to finish off the first 5 production enclosure. I've talked to a local machinist with who I will be manufacturing my brackets. He gave me some pointers on how to perfect my design so there will be the minimum vibration noise, maximum strength with them being the most affordable. Those brackets will most likely be bought (By myself) by batches, again, to reduce the final price.
I will work on the design during my vacations, the brackets design and the 5 enclosure started should be ready in about a month. Then there will be some test-fitting with prototype brackets to ensure the design is universal to all years, models, accessories... etc. Then there will be the first batch of brackets. After all this process, the first production enclosures will be ready to be shipped.
Until then, I wish you all happy holidays, drive safe and I will keep you up to date with future developments.
I know it's been a really long time. We had a very hard winter up here in Canada with some very low temperature (We did hit the -40 degrees Celsius/Fahrenheit for about a week.) therefore working in a non-heated garage was way too cold. Fortunatelly, I've been able to advance on the design with information I had on hand. With that done, I have been able to come up with a final shape that I will need to verify the fitment in the car as soon as it gets a little warmer.
This week is supposed to be relatively hot (around 0 Celsius / 32 Fahrenheit) so I will post some more information this week.
I worked on the bracket design and the mounting points for the enclosure. This is a nightmare to design. Let me explain:
I've thought a lot about where to mount it on the car, the easiest ways, the optimum ways and finally, I was left with only one solution. I didn't want to make a bracket that would of ended up in the wheel well since its a salted area (I need to look at all possible applications for the customers). I didn't want to make a bracket that would mount on top or on the side of the A/C duct as it would make vibration noises and the brackets would need to be different for A/C and non-A/C cars. I didn't want to attach it to the dash either because the weight is considerable and it would be very impractical to install and remove.
Over the time, I worked on more than 5 different bracket designs. Some of them worked, some of them developed problems after a while or the others were just not that great. This was my 2nd design which consisted of only 2 brackets. The problem with that was that the only thing that kept the enclosure from pivoting from the front to back, was the constant contact with the dash creating major vibration noises. I still post it on here just to explain how hard it was.
Now this is my 5th bracket design and the one we will stick to. There will be 3 mounting point because its the best way to immobilize an object preventing it from moving in every axis. Two mounting point are on the top preventing it from pivoting from right to left (Passenger to Driver), the other mounting point will be the small bracket attached to the frame that supports the dash and the foot light. Here is a picture of the mounting points (The dots represent the placement of the bolts).
I've made a paper cut out of the bracket's shape. Again, red dot means the attachment to the frame, green dot means the attachment on the enclosure and the yellow dot is the attachment of the power door lock relay to the bracket (So that it can be grounded).
The next step will be to make a steel prototype to make sure all the angles and dimensions are correct. I will the verify it in several cars to make sure it is universal to all Fiero (Just making sure of fitment) and then I will be able to send my drawing to a shop.
I know it's a pretty slow going thread/developpement, but I do not want to compromise quality since its a product that we will use ourselves. I'm really glad that so much forum members tagged along and kept their interest for such a long time! The advantage is that even though the design process is long, when production will be started, things will fit together perfectly every time. Therefore production time and hassles will be reduced.
I've tried to start the steel prototype but unfortunatelly our air compressor died on us in the end of 2012. I can tell you that cutting steel with a jigsaw or sawzall isn't doing the job. Don't worry, a new compressor was ordered about a week ago and the store said it should arrive 2 weeks after the day it's ordered. So I'm waiting on that to make my first steel prototype.
In the meantime, I will make a cartboard mockup of the bracket (it will distort less than the paper one) which will help me correct the angles and shapes. Afterwards, I will only need to verify the proper bend angles and test fit.
I haven't forgotten you. I've made lots of progress on the bracket design, a lot of revisions and even a prototype! :O
I'm now in discussion with the person who will make my brackets, I'm not sure yet on how they will cost/how much more it will add to the sale value, but I will hope for the best if I can have a discount by buying in bulk. I'm sorry as I don't have picture yet of the final bracket design, but without a doubt I will post picture as soon as I receive the production one!
I figured I should post some pictures of my achievement. Unfortunately I don't have any while it is installed in the car but I will say that once installed it fits perfectly. I'm sure with these brackets, the enclosure won't go anywhere!
Here are a couple of picture of the prototype:
Fred
EDITED:
I might need to explain why the gelcoat seams inconsistent. In fact I work with a semi-transparent gelcoat that doesn't have any dye or colorants added to itÂ. I've found that when the gelcoat came with colorant (White opaque color), it has a lot of trouble withstanding winter and has a significantly shorter shelf life. This is why I add my colorant when I mix the gelcoat with the hardener but at some places, it is still semi-transparent.
Don't worry as there is absolutely no difference in strength or finish, the only difference is the color (Which isn't really important since it will be painted).
------------------ 87 Pontiac Fiero GT
[This message has been edited by Black Pegasus (edited 05-07-2013).]
Looking good, the brackets look real good. Are you going to do a road test with it fully loaded for awhile then pull it and check for stress cracks at the brackets? Man it looks good better then anything Pontiac made for our beloved car. I bet when its all said and done you would swear it came from the factory. Can't wait to get my hands on one.
I am not worried about the bracket's strength. I had one of the previous design up on my car for a while now and it never showed any wear. The problem was the design itself and the fact that I only used metal screws to hold them in place. I've solved the issues by adding a 3rd mounting point and using bolts and nylon lock nuts. The bracket's metal is even a little over-kill since I had trouble bending it bear handed. I will still make a road test with a subwoofer installed so that I make sure every issues I had were solved but at this point, it's only a matter of confirmation. I am really confident in my last design.
Actually, I'll tell you a side story:
I picked up a girl a couple of years ago (At that time we were dating) and when she got in, I told he to be carefull to the subwoofer. (Even if I have a grill - which is almost necessary - I say this to everyone just to make sure they don't kick it.) She then asked: "Which subwoofer?" I said: "Do you see the square black duct which is for the ventilation system? Beside that there is an other "similar" box, I've made that. It's a sub enclosure." She said amazed: "I was sure it was coming with the car like that!" I've found it very funny, but the funniest was when she added 2 seconds later: "Now I understand why I have something blowing air on my feet!"
I have a couple more fiberglass project/products I am developing and that I am planning to sell. Most of them are subtle changes that that either accents the Fiero body, or it modifies them in a way that it blends so well with the rest of the body, that it makes it look stock.
An other side story:
I was at a car show with my car, freshly painted. I have a couple of modifications made to it, one of them is a spoiler (Not a wing, an actual spoiler). I heard this older man saying to his wife: "Hey look at that Fiero! It's different. He made a great job at modifying it!" The wife then responded to him: "What are you talking about? Those cars came like that as an option!" (Which clearly doesn't since I made it myself)
And don't worry, I can't wait that other fiero owners has their hands on them. Fred
I was looking all over for this thread. Not sure if you added me to the list. Please add me. It's looking really good. Please keep me informed. Thank you.
Just a quick question. Will this also fit an 88? I thought I remember reading that the ducting was a little different in that year. (It may have been me that asked the question before).
GodSend, I am not really sure as we don't have any 88 parked at home. We do have all the other years but the reason we don't have 88s is because in Ontario, we would need to pass emission tests every 2 years. It's not a price we are ready to live with. They don't have the same law in Quebec and I have a couple of good Fiero friends that I could ask just to make sure. (Actually, one person that is on the top of my list has an 88, so it will give me the opportunity to make sure everything fits.
Here is the fitments that I know of: -84 w/out A/C: ??? (I don't know as we only have Indys at home -> Indys are fully loaded) -84 w/ A/C: Will fit if you cut the plastic tabs that holds the chime module and you relocate it elsewhere. -85-87 w/out A/C: There is absolutely no problem. There is even extra room since the duct is smaller. -85-87 w/ A/C: That is the model I used to design everything as it it the most restrictive that I know of. -88: I have no clue since I never saw their under-dash. I suspect that it will be the same as the 85-87 and the only difference will be the A/C vs non-A/C models.
Note: If the frame has been bent (And I saw some cases), It could seriously affect the fitment at the point where new brackets wouldn't even do it. Especially with a car with A/C..
Before selling any, I will make sure it fits as more model as possible and if ever it doesn't fit, I will be glad to work with those odd cases so that you don't have and expensive subwoofer enclosure laying around that you can't even use.
Oh I totally have an 88 I could swing by with to check it out when you are ready.. we can jut slide it up (sans mounts) to see if its even close.
quote
Originally posted by Black Pegasus:
PRFiero, No problem! You were added too!
GodSend, I am not really sure as we don't have any 88 parked at home. We do have all the other years but the reason we don't have 88s is because in Ontario, we would need to pass emission tests every 2 years. It's not a price we are ready to live with. They don't have the same law in Quebec and I have a couple of good Fiero friends that I could ask just to make sure. (Actually, one person that is on the top of my list has an 88, so it will give me the opportunity to make sure everything fits.
Here is the fitments that I know of: -84 w/out A/C: ??? (I don't know as we only have Indys at home -> Indys are fully loaded) -84 w/ A/C: Will fit if you cut the plastic tabs that holds the chime module and you relocate it elsewhere. -85-87 w/out A/C: There is absolutely no problem. There is even extra room since the duct is smaller. -85-87 w/ A/C: That is the model I used to design everything as it it the most restrictive that I know of. -88: I have no clue since I never saw their under-dash. I suspect that it will be the same as the 85-87 and the only difference will be the A/C vs non-A/C models.
Note: If the frame has been bent (And I saw some cases), It could seriously affect the fitment at the point where new brackets wouldn't even do it. Especially with a car with A/C..
Before selling any, I will make sure it fits as more model as possible and if ever it doesn't fit, I will be glad to work with those odd cases so that you don't have and expensive subwoofer enclosure laying around that you can't even use.
Oh I totally have an 88 I could swing by with to check it out when you are ready.. we can jut slide it up (sans mounts) to see if its even close.
I'll see what I can do!
I'm not sure if I want to offer installation since the interior needs to be stripped (Mostly dash parts) and means the car can't be driven if the job isn't done. I thought about it for a couple of minutes and lots of factors are coming into count. If it would be the case, it would only be for the local buyers or the ones that are willing to drive close to Ottawa. (Unless you guys want to pay for the flight and hotel! )
I will most likely do some exceptions (To make sure that everything fits throughout the Fiero years and model) and if so, I will make sure we install YOUR enclosure so that you can drive off listening to your new aquisition. A good thing too is that the money you spend on gas will cover the shipping fee.
I will see what I can do and how much time a typical installation is (From the first screw removed to the subwoofer playing). In any case, I will let you guys know as soon as I start my selling thread.
Sorry I thought you were a little closer to Toronto. I wasen't suggesting a full install. What I meant was without the brackets you should be able to at least slide it up and into place no? Just to see *IF* it fits a 88?
Either way, I would totally be willing to "risk" it, if you wouldent mind allowing me to promptly return if it ends up being a complete miss (I dont mind slight modifications...)...
quote
Originally posted by Black Pegasus:
I'll see what I can do!
I'm not sure if I want to offer installation since the interior needs to be stripped (Mostly dash parts) and means the car can't be driven if the job isn't done. I thought about it for a couple of minutes and lots of factors are coming into count. If it would be the case, it would only be for the local buyers or the ones that are willing to drive close to Ottawa. (Unless you guys want to pay for the flight and hotel! )
I will most likely do some exceptions (To make sure that everything fits throughout the Fiero years and model) and if so, I will make sure we install YOUR enclosure so that you can drive off listening to your new aquisition. A good thing too is that the money you spend on gas will cover the shipping fee.
I will see what I can do and how much time a typical installation is (From the first screw removed to the subwoofer playing). In any case, I will let you guys know as soon as I start my selling thread.
Originally posted by GodSend: Sorry I thought you were a little closer to Toronto. I wasen't suggesting a full install. What I meant was without the brackets you should be able to at least slide it up and into place no? Just to see *IF* it fits a 88?
Either way, I would totally be willing to "risk" it, if you wouldent mind allowing me to promptly return if it ends up being a complete miss (I dont mind slight modifications...)...
The subwoofer can't be put (Even without brackets) if the dash isn't taken out. In fact it is very tricky to fit in there.
I'll keep your name in case I need it.
Don't worry about the return, if the enclosure is still as I sold it (Un-damaged, un-used), it wouldn't be a problem to take it back.
I will attend the Fiero 30th anniversary in Indianapolis. Unfortunately I wasn't able to make it with my own car. Though, my father's and my brother's Fiero will be present with two different sound system setup. One has the JL Audio and the other has the Pioneer. One has seat speakers and the other has pillars speakers, different radios, different power amplifier and different tuning abilities.
I also brought one of the pre-production subwoofer enclosure unpainted with the latest bracket design.
I will be walking around but if you see a white fibreglass enclosure in front of a white 85 Gt or gray 86 Gt, I will be close to them. Since we don't decide where we park, i will leave a note on those car (at the VIN number's location) so they can be easily identified.
This is your chance to hear it! Depending on which car i use (different radios) i can play CDs, iPod and i might even be able to read music from a USB.
It will also give me an idea where to stand with the feedback i will receive from potential customers.
I will add you guys to the list as soon as i get back home. Like said earlier, i can't garentee fittments on any other dash as i haven't tried it on anything else than a Fiero dash. If the mounting points are still there and the dash has more room than the stock one, it should fit without problems.
Anyone here at the 30th that would like to test 1 or 2 songs and see the product with their own eyes??? I will be here tonight for the parts swap (even though there is none for sale). Let me know!!
I have been a little busy since I came back. I do have a couple of updates regarding this project.
I went to a water-jet compagny that were able to cut the brackets for me. They said they would gladly do it so now I'm in the middle of an e-mail exchange to figure out how much they will cost to produce.
I also have news about the Fiero 30th were I put my enclosure on display and had the chance to make people listen to the setup. Everyone that saw the enclosure on the hood of the car were completely confused about what it really was but everyone that heard it in action were absolutely amazed by the setup.
I have reached a point were there is no vibration from the enclosure (Due to my last bracket design) and the weakest link when you really turn up the volume is the mounting tabs that you screw the 4x10s in, or something loose inside the car. So far I am really impressed with the results I have.
Awesome... can't wait to see what the final $ will be once you get a quote on the bracket production.
------------------ 1984 Indy Fiero SE Pace Car Replica #770 "SE" Stormtrooper Edition Rescued, resuscitated and reversibly modified! (I'm so not done yet!) Poly all round & Black Drag DR-34s Frt: 225/45 on 18x8 (47 offset w/ 8-9mm spacer) 1.5 coils cut off 1984 WS6 springs Rear: 265/35 on 18x8.5 (45 offset) Coil-overs w/ 10 inch 300lb springs & 7 inch sleeve
I received my first production set of brackets for the enclosure. Most of them looked bang on but some others needed slight modification (That were made).
I had some great help from Aaron for a jig. Received it today and it looks perfect. This will help save production time as well ensuring the brackets are consistently lined up on every enclosure without having to remove the dash of my car each time I need to sell one.
Basically I'm properly set up for production at this point. I will place an order for a batch of brackets, then the first batch of enclosure will be ready to be sold.
I'm evaluating the first batch to be done at the beginning of September.
)
