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Build thread: '88 + 3800 = Fun in Spokane (Dial-up death warning) by aaronkoch
Started on: 07-13-2009 03:46 PM
Replies: 319 (28766 views)
Last post by: aaronkoch on 06-19-2018 09:04 PM
aaronkoch
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Report this Post07-15-2010 10:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Engine goes in tomorrow, had to get seals for where the axles go through the knuckles. Luckily, Joe had a couple of extras on his shelf (what DOESN'T he have on his shelves?).

Apparently I need to go get a '97 computer too, as the 96's can't be programmed by HP Tuners..


Oh yeah, I OWN MY OWN PAGE. I rule.

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 07-15-2010).]

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Dogcreek
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Report this Post07-15-2010 10:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DogcreekClick Here to Email DogcreekSend a Private Message to DogcreekEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You are the page ownage maestro!!! You plan this don't you!!!

Jeff

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aaronkoch
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Report this Post07-18-2010 12:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Ok, so a lot of progress today:

Started by ripping out the auto trans cooler lines, and trying to fit the clutch line from the '85. This was not easy, as the 85's routing is very different from the 88's at the front.




Then, I pulled out the 4 cylinder radiator, and cleaned and installed the 6 cyl radiator from my parts mule. Seeing them side by side, you really notice how much beefier the 6 cylinder radiator is. The fins on the 4-cyl were closer together, but they collect more crap like that anyway..





I cut a firewall blanket out of Joe's patented shiny stuff, cut the battery tray out, and dropped the tank to swap in the 6 cylinder pump. I also ran the FI hose out that little hole in the middle, and it will come up to the drivers' side of the middle to the fuel rail. My exhaust on the front runs down and to the passenger side, so there's nothing that will heat up the lines there.



It hit about 93 here today, and I had to take frequent breaks to hose off my head in cool water. So, I went in the garage and put the rear suspension on, mounted the new axle seals, and put the axles through the spindles. After that, I bolted on the struts with those cool little cam bolts to make the alignment guy's life MUCH easier.
It's all ready to throw in, and I have Jeff coming over tomorrow to call 911 if I drop the car on my head..






More tomorrow.

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 07-19-2010).]

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aaronkoch
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Report this Post07-19-2010 12:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

THE ENGINE IS IN!

Finally, right?

HUGE thank you owed to Jeff (Porvette) Greg, and Tyler, who all spent the day throwing stuff at me while I was under the car..

I still can't believe how MUCH ROOM there is around the 3800 in the engine bay.. I can fit my arm around any part of the engine with ease. I did have to cut the bottom of the right hinge to clear the ICM/Coil pack, which happen to *ahem* crisp up my freshly cut firewall insulation, but I I'll cut out a new one and apply it again. The 4-speed lines run neatly over the the thermostat housing, and barely have to bend at all to go into the car, it's a beautiful thing. I also set a spare decklid on there to keep the cats out, and I will have to trim the right rib to clear the alternator, but not much. Also, notice that the stock 4-cylinder coolant hose perfectly mounts to the thermostat housing.














Next on the docket:
Route Fuel lines, add inline filter, and attach quick disconnects for rail.
Get '97 PCM and mount
Get battery and ground cables and mount
Add grounds for a few loose wires on harness
Add inline 10 amp fuse for PCM battery power wire
Mount harness wiring on firewall, attach ODB2 diag port inside car.
Swap pedal assemblies for manual assembly. BTW, is there a trick to removing them? It seems like the assembly is stuck binding on a wire harness under the dash, I can't seem to get it far back enough to clear the studs at the firewall.. Oh well, I'll play with it some more.
Fix front brake lines, and mount front calipers
Install SS brake lines and bleed.

I think that will keep me busy for a few days..

Wish me luck, FieroFest is approaching in about 3 weeks, nothing like down to the wire I guess...

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 07-19-2010).]

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longgonefiero
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Report this Post07-19-2010 03:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for longgonefieroClick Here to Email longgonefieroSend a Private Message to longgonefieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

This is by far one of the better build threads my hats off to you and keep up the good work.

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aaronkoch
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Report this Post07-19-2010 04:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks, and THANK YOU for serving our country. If it weren't for you and our other brave men and women in the armed forces, I'd be standing in line to order my Trabant.

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Dogcreek
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Report this Post07-19-2010 08:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DogcreekClick Here to Email DogcreekSend a Private Message to DogcreekEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Dude...Looking good... you are on the downhill now.... You will get her in shape for the FEST in am sure... Call me if you need help after work anynight, anytime....

Jeff

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bowrapennocks
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Report this Post07-19-2010 09:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bowrapennocksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Looking good. Hope to see it at Fierofest.
Jim

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Tony Kania
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Report this Post07-19-2010 11:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Damn! Looking saweet. I have a busy month, but could also throw some wrenches at your crib for a couple of hours Jr.

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Jncomutt
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Report this Post07-20-2010 01:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttClick Here to Email JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Swap is looking great!

As far as the pedal box, you can reuse the auto pedal box. You will only need the clutch add-on bracket and the two bolts, the longer pivot bolt, and the smaller brake pedal. Remove the thru-bolt from your current setup, pull the brake pedal out, bolt on the cluth pedal attachment, insert the longer bolt, slip it thru the new brake pedals, and voila!

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aaronkoch
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Report this Post07-21-2010 12:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Today's update:

I've been Mr. Mom these last few days as my wife prepares her grandparents' 60th anniversary party, but I did manage to make a little progress tonight..

I hooked up the shifter cables and adjusted them, and hooked up the throttle cable. Interestingly, the stock '88 duke cable works perfectly with the 3800 throttle body with a few minor modifications.. Clip the cable after the first stopper thingy (metal crimped on the cable), and cut the automatic TV part off, and it slips right in like it was meant that way from the factory. It's dark out now, but I'll get some pictures tomorrow. I may use a zip tie to keep the cable from lifting out of the housing, but that's pretty minor sauce..

BTW John, thanks for the tip. That will save me at least an hour of wrangling...

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 07-21-2010).]

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helmet1978
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Report this Post07-24-2010 11:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for helmet1978Click Here to visit helmet1978's HomePageClick Here to Email helmet1978Send a Private Message to helmet1978Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

Wish me luck, FieroFest is approaching in about 3 weeks, nothing like down to the wire I guess...



Isn't it amazing how fast August arrives! I was in the same boat when we painted my car in 2002, we were painting August 4th and in Richland August 10th

Keep up the great work, I know how much dedication it takes to pull off a swap like this in your garage...been there done that! Looking forward to seeing your new power in person in a few weeks.

------------------
http://www.raceme.cc/helmet/

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qwikgta
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Report this Post07-25-2010 02:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Have you looked at the possibility of a significant hood notch with that Alt on there? After all powdercoat are you going to go back and clean the motor/trans?

Great looking swap, I love the pics of your harness work. I hated that part of my swap.

Rob

.

------------------


88 Coupe, CJB T-TOP, 1996 3.4 DOHC and a GT clip

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aaronkoch
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Report this Post07-26-2010 12:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Ok, it was 96+ degrees out this weekend, so I didn't get enough done, but I wanted to post pictures so you could see my progress.

Close up shot showing '88 duke throttle cable in 3800 TB. I cut the cable after the first "stopper", not sure what the official name is for that piece of metal pinched on the wire is. I also cut off the auto trans kickdown cable that's molded to the throttle cable on the duke. Then, I just ran a ziptie to keep it from lifting out of the slot.



Next, I planned out the fuel line layout to prevent heat issues, and make sure nothing would rub. I also re-used the plastic quick-connects that came on the engine to make for easy disconnect later if needed. Please, make sure you always use fuel injection rated hose.. Kinda sucks at $5 a foot, but has many safety features.



Since my front exhaust manifold dumps down to the passenger side of the car, I ran the fuel lines to the drivers side, then up. I used a FRAM GF15 filter, which has flared ends on it and is an all-metal filter, wrapped it in loom, then snugged it in the factory clamp, which was moved over to an open heat shield mount. Note, in the next picture, I still need to put some protection around the hoses where they enter the fuel tank area. They look tight, but aren't touching the rounded-over pass through at all, I'm just adding protection to prevent wear. Another note: I'm fond of zip ties, but when using them, there are a few rules. run 1 zip tie around item you want secured, but leave a bit loose. Then run the second zip tie thru the first one, and attach to mounting point. Thirdly, run a third zip tie around the junction of the first 2 zip ties (but not around either the item or the mount) and pull tight to make sure item being secured never touches the mount. Then snug up the first 2 zip ties (not too tight, just enough to prevent movement).



Lastly, I got the PCU sitting in its eventual home, and the harness sitting in place. I also attached the C500, and the chassis harness. I still need to coax the harnesses into a manageable configuration, but that will be much easier when the PCU is actually MOUNTED, instead of just sitting there. On another note, I had to go to the junkyard and find a 1997 PCU, as apparently the '96's aren't able to be programmed by HPTuners. I could have used a '98 - '02, but that would have meant re-pinning the connectors. There are SOME differences b/t the '96 and '97's, but not for my purposes, as I'm using a manual trans, and no AC. The one I found was from a 1997 Buick Park Ave non-supercharged.


I can't get over how "at home" this engine seems in the fiero bay... Must be "meant to be."

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Jncomutt
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Report this Post07-26-2010 04:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttClick Here to Email JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Looking good, almost there!

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Report this Post07-27-2010 08:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for roninfieroClick Here to Email roninfieroSend a Private Message to roninfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Your swap is looking great! Also wanted to say that your thread is very helpful.
Ronin

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Report this Post07-29-2010 09:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DogcreekClick Here to Email DogcreekSend a Private Message to DogcreekEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Enjoyed last night... that is the smoothest clutch pedal ever!!! What is next? Let's get it started!!!! vroom vroom!

Jeff

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aaronkoch
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Report this Post08-21-2010 11:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Ok, productive day, but by the time I had a chance to take pictures, it was dark..

I finished the wiring, hooked up the alternator and starter to the junction under the c500, made an engine ground, and screwed down the PCM connectors and c500.

Next, I filled the transmission (normal oil until I know it's a good trans, then synchromesh), adjusted the shifter cables, and lubed up the cables with some wd40.

Spencer came over (shill on the forum), and helped me fill the cooling system. When I first started filling, I saw water pouring out of the block above and to the right of the crank pulley, and freaked out. Apparently, there is something bolted there normally, and I found a small bolt and gooped it with right stuff, and screwed it in. Fill attempt number 2, and same thing, only a little higher up. Ugh, another bolt, gooped up, and in, and third try's a charm!

Now that there's oil, transmission fluid, and coolant, I decided to try to start her for the first time tonight. I grabbed the steering column, plugged in the dash, and got the jumper cables hooked to the battery. Turn the key, here the FP relay click, and crank, but no start. I saw an ajar light, but no CEL, and gave up for the night. I know the PCM is getting power, because it's the only thing powering the fuel pump, and I think I can here the FP running, but it was dark by then, and hard to troubleshoot.

ALMOST THERE!! Just wanna here the stupid car run..

So, after I got inside, I remembered that I'd forgotten to put a bigger fuse in for the ICM...

I'll check that tomorrow, and try again.

Wish me luck!

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JPH87
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Report this Post08-22-2010 11:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JPH87Click Here to Email JPH87Send a Private Message to JPH87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Good luck hope it starts today

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Tony Kania
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Report this Post08-22-2010 01:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

If there is anything that I can help out with today, please give me a call. You know the #.

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josef644
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Report this Post08-22-2010 02:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Aaron we are waiting for news

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aaronkoch
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Report this Post08-22-2010 03:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

ROFL. Just got out of church, as soon as I put the 3 year old down for a nap I'll go play a bit.

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aaronkoch
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Report this Post08-22-2010 08:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Well, fuel pump works, I have fuel at the schraeder valve, ICM works because the tach flutters on crank, coils test good. PCM works, or at least primes the pump and turns on the CEL.

It turns out that my fuel injectors don't have 12v for some reason. This is troubling, as they're powered off the same feed as the IGN PCM feed..

I guess I have to pull my pretty harness back out and find out what the heck happened.. Grr...

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Jncomutt
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Report this Post08-22-2010 11:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttClick Here to Email JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Sometimes people will use J or K at the C203 and only have one injector fuse at the fuse box. If you're using the C500 to power the injectors as well, I guess this isn't the case, but may want to double check before tearing into the harness.

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aaronkoch
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Report this Post08-23-2010 11:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

When I had the harness inside working on it, there were no pins J & K, as my car was an '88 duke, so I figured they weren't in the car harness either. I was mistaken however, as both J & K of c203 are there and powered in the car's side of the c203. At the time I ran the feed for the PCM IGN and the injector +12 off the other IGN feed in the c203. Now that I know that J & K are indeed there, I'll need to go through the harness again and make it right.

Sometimes it's not fun being an amateur.. But, on the flip side, when you build your car from scratch, it helps a LOT in knowing where to start troubleshooting.

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aaronkoch
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Report this Post09-04-2010 11:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Alrighty, update from yesterday:

Well, I pulled the harness off the engine, and began tearing the 3 rolls of electrical tape and looming off the harness. After completely undressing the harness, my mistake was obvious. I had faithfully joined all the injectors' +12v leads together, and then completely forgotten to run a power wire to them at all. I guess that would completely explain why they weren't firing..

Let this be a lesson kids, never wire a harness when extremely tired, you WILL forget something.

So, I ran a wire to pin J of the C203, and re-taped / loomed the harness. Today, I'll re-mount the harness and attempt to start.

The great thing about building your own harness and doing your own swap is knowing exactly how to troubleshoot.. Once I started tracing the wires back it only took me about 3 minutes to see my error. In a way, I'm glad, as I took the opportunity to shorten some wires and reorganize the layout a little bit so it lays in my engine bay better.

Stay tuned for possible engine noises today..

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aaronkoch
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Report this Post09-04-2010 11:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

WOOHOO!!! IT RUNS!

Took a while for the fuel to prime, but it fired up, and ran for it's 2 seconds.. Now I need to save up for an exhaust, and program the PCM..

Major milestone, man it was good to hear it run.. sure is loud without an exhaust.


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Fieroking
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Report this Post09-05-2010 12:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierokingClick Here to visit Fieroking's HomePageClick Here to Email FierokingSend a Private Message to FierokingEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Congrats on getting it running.

Joe

------------------
85 SE Daily driver with a 3.4 DOHC OBD II
88 Formula/GT 4.9 Allante Intake (My Baby)

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Report this Post09-08-2010 12:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JPH87Click Here to Email JPH87Send a Private Message to JPH87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Nice job

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Tony Kania
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Report this Post09-10-2010 12:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

She really doesn't need much to be road worthy. That has to feel good!

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Report this Post09-13-2010 11:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jimmy_the_SaintClick Here to Email Jimmy_the_SaintSend a Private Message to Jimmy_the_SaintEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Looks great man! I was wondering, what kind of brakes are you using? Those look like 4 piston calipers, bit they don't look like the Wilwood kit HT sells or the Brembo kit from WCF

[This message has been edited by Jimmy_the_Saint (edited 09-13-2010).]

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aaronkoch
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Report this Post09-13-2010 06:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Believe it or not, those are the stock '88 brakes. I'm currently in an airplane somewhere near Chicago on decent, or I'd comment more, but they're about to announce that I need to stow my toys..

I had the 12" wilwoods on my previous car, and they stopped great, but were a PITA... not hub centric, rattled, expensive. Man, they did haul the car down in a hurry though.

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Shill
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Report this Post09-13-2010 10:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ShillSend a Private Message to ShillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:
I'm currently in an airplane somewhere near Chicago on decent, or I'd comment more, but they're about to announce that I need to stow my toys..


Ah, and when I called you this morning, I thought you said, "I've got to go, I'm bored." Now I realize it was "I've got to go, I'm boarding"

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Report this Post09-13-2010 11:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jimmy_the_SaintClick Here to Email Jimmy_the_SaintSend a Private Message to Jimmy_the_SaintEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Did the 88 brakes use a multi-piston fixed caliper design? That's kinda how they look to me from the pic, but I'd never seen a pic of the 88 calipers before.

[This message has been edited by Jimmy_the_Saint (edited 09-13-2010).]

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aaronkoch
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Report this Post09-14-2010 09:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

They're single piston floating calipers. Getting hard to find, too, 88 fiero was the only application.

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Report this Post09-15-2010 05:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jimmy_the_SaintClick Here to Email Jimmy_the_SaintSend a Private Message to Jimmy_the_SaintEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Gotcha thanks for the clarification man.

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Report this Post09-25-2010 03:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LuckyStrikeClick Here to Email LuckyStrikeSend a Private Message to LuckyStrikeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

just curious what pcm you are using? I had an 00 or 01 that would start the car like in your video, I (thru some research here on the forum) sourced a 98 grand prix pcm that let the car run, so you can test things and source the vaccum leaks that are always there! good luck, looks great, Just got my n/a running etc a couple weeks ago too, awsome! waiting on my dog bone mount from wcf! -strike

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Tstang429
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Report this Post10-10-2010 08:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tstang429Click Here to Email Tstang429Send a Private Message to Tstang429Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

bump

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BMTFIERO
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Report this Post10-31-2010 02:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BMTFIEROClick Here to Email BMTFIEROSend a Private Message to BMTFIEROEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

A "Hows its coming along" Bump

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aaronkoch
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Report this Post11-20-2010 02:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Got the car on it's own wheels for the first time in 18 months. Getting it rolled into the garage before the first BIG snow.. I'll post more details later.

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