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88 Coupe gets a 3.4 by josef644
Started on: 03-18-2011 12:24 PM
Replies: 562 (26656 views)
Last post by: josef644 on 05-02-2016 01:06 PM
josef644
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Report this Post03-18-2011 12:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The 4.9 I had installed into my Coupe is dead and gone. I have sold off just about all of the parts made to make it work. I have been looking for a good used 2.8 to put into my Coupe and get it back on the road. I decided to install a 3.4pr motor. 4.9 is removed and sold to the scrap yard. Most of the swap parts I used have been sold off in the mall.

Money spent on this install so far:
3.4 engine $425.00
Transmission $50.00
2 Expansion plugs $5.98
M20-1.15 drain plug $3.29
RD starter Jig $60.00
RD Distributor O ring $$3.00
RD Brass Oil pressure adapter $3.99
Shipping $7.50
Fel Pro Valve stem Seals $22.00 Shipped
Fel ProTiming gaskets, head gaskets
Clevite rod bearings, crank and main seal
Head bolts + above 5 items $160.00 shipped
Machine shop services, cam bearings installed , hot tank block, and polish crank surfaces $190.00
88 Fiero V6 Flex-plate $49.68
Clevite Main Bearings $35.00
Perfect Circle Rings $50.00
Melling Oil Pump $52.00
Fel-Pro Oil Pan gasket $21.00
Fel-Pro Intake set $23.00
Clevite three piece timing set $26.00
V6 ECM $40.00
Valve cover gaskets $20.00
Valve job $90.00
Rear cam cover gasket $8.00
V6 engine mount bracket $30.00
A1 Cardone Drivers side CV shaft (automatic) $47.00
Converter seal $9.00
2 CV Shaft seals for the transmission.
Remanufactured Torque Converter $80.00

I have purchased a T125C for Mstangsbware up north and he has just about everything I will need to swap in a Fiero V6. I am gonna go with the T125C for now , and can always get me a 4T60 later to replace the 125C. I have read many threads here about the 3.4 and started looking for one from a 93-95 Firebird or Camaro. I located one in Houston with only 23K miles on the clock. Inside the Valve cover looked new almost. It still had oil in it, and I had them drain it to examine the drain plug. No debris on the drain plug. Had an AC oil filter on it.


I started removing the unneeded accessories this morning and got it down to a long block. I am thinking that I removed about 80 Lbs of exhaust,intake and mount brackets. I am gonna start on removing the heads and the main caps to get a good look at those before I start putting 2.8 parts on and get it in to the car and find out there is a problem.

and

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 04-28-2011).]

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MstangsBware
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Report this Post03-18-2011 01:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Joe if you need all te 2.8 top end parts to go on that motor I bet I have then laying around...They may be a little dirty but should clean up.....I threw away alot of intakes but pretty sure I kept a few along with TB and maybe some other parts....

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josef644
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Report this Post03-18-2011 01:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Poe I had planned on getting that 2.8 you are gonna remove for the swap. I will rob all of the fasteners, brackets, exhaust and everything else I will need to dress out this 3.4. It is an 87?, if so that will make some things easier.

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josef644
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Report this Post03-20-2011 11:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Removed the intake this morning. Looked pretty good in there. A little clean up will suffice.




Removed the two heads. No ridge on any cylinder. Tops of the pistons cleaned up real good. I used my shop vac to get some debris out of the valley from removing the intake. The vac sucked one lifter out of it's bore. All came out with just finger effort. All 12 were like new on the botton face. Marked me an egg carton and placed them all inside and sealed them up so the box can't come open.


I can still see the factory crosshatch in all bores. Hard to see in the picture.


I plan on removing the oil pan and all piston assemblies tomorrow. I can get a good look and the crankshaft and its bearings shells. So far everything looks like it should with just 23K miles.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 03-20-2011).]

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josef644
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Report this Post03-21-2011 01:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Pulled The oil pan this morning. Fairly good and clean inside. Nothing snagged in the oil pick up.


Connection rods marked and removed:

Block and cam:

No gouges in any of the bores:

Found this in piston # 5,( block was up side down). and haven't a clue what it is?

I am happy that I took this engine apart before starting it up the first time. All six pistons had the oil rings seized up. I was told that this engine was removed in 1999 and has sat on a shelf since then. I am thinking that the oils rings would have gouged the cylinder bores and ruined a good block.

On different note I think that I could just add new mains and rod bearings to the crankshaft and go back together. Crankshaft is in almost new condition. I will test with plastic gauge before purchasing new bearings.

Block is going to the machine shop tomorrow for honeing, hot tanking and new cam bearings.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 03-21-2011).]

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josef644
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Report this Post03-22-2011 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Dropped off the block for honing ,new cam bearings and hot tanking. All cylinders were still standard bore. Crankshaft was measured out as standard and will just get a good cleaning and micro polish in the bearing surfaces.

Ordered two Dorman #571-003 expandable freeze plugs to plug the crank and cam sensor in the block. Ordered one Oil-Tite # 65221. This is a M20-1.50 oil plug to thread into the hole in the pan where the oil lever sensor used to reside. I will have parts here tomorrow to await the return of the block and crankshaft.

Beautiful Texas day here.

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Report this Post03-23-2011 04:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I got the starter Jig from RD in the mail today. Looks easy enough to do. I also purchased the brass oil pressure switch adapter and a new distributor O ring. Valve stem seals cam from RockAuto.

I got a Valve spring compressor at A-Zone this morning so I can install the new seals. Might do the seals tomorrow after I am finished with a few small chores to do first.

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Report this Post03-23-2011 06:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Wow Joe!

You are not messing around! Looks like you got a good motor to work with. If you need anything - that Poe does not have, let me know. I have some 2.8 motor brackets and parts out in the shed. I might even have a bored TB- I'll have to take a look. Plus I think I have a set of 2.8 exhaust logs partially ported. Anyway, if you need something, let me know and I'll dig through the boxes. Looking good so far!

Pat

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Report this Post03-23-2011 08:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by katatak:

Wow Joe!

You are not messing around! Looks like you got a good motor to work with. If you need anything - that Poe does not have, let me know. I have some 2.8 motor brackets and parts out in the shed. I might even have a bored TB- I'll have to take a look. Plus I think I have a set of 2.8 exhaust logs partially ported. Anyway, if you need something, let me know and I'll dig through the boxes. Looking good so far!

Pat


Thanks Pat. I won't know what else I need until I start to put it all together. I will go pick up my block from the machine shop Monday. Then it is all depending on purchasing new rings,gaskets,crank bearings etc. I am not gonna use old pieces to put the critical rotating parts back together.

I have a 2.8 automatic harness with C203 and C500 should be here tomorrow.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 03-23-2011).]

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Report this Post03-24-2011 05:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

V6 engine harness arrived this afternoon. Looks to be in good shape.

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Report this Post03-28-2011 08:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I went to the machine shop to get my block and crankshaft. They both looked new. I do not know how they clean these parts, but they did a great job. Once home I used the Rodney Dickman 3.4 starter jig to drill the two new holes on the opposite side of the block. His jig works great, and I highly recommend using one of these to get it right the first time around. The jig comes with two drill bits. A 8.5mm and a 10.1mm I broke the smaller one as the bit came threw the lower part of the boss cast into the block. I wasn't able to get it up fast enough , hence the bit got bent and broke as the motor was still turning. My fault, not RD's parts fault. I couldn't find a 8.5mm bit around here and purchased a 21/64" bit that is about the thickness of a piece of printing paper smaller. I used it for the second hole, and all is well. New funds spent are posted and updated in the first post.

I am gonna lube and bag the crankshaft until such time as I am ready to put it into the block:


Block sprayed down and bagged while waiting for the rest of my needed parts:


Mains, and rod bearings, and new head bolt set are on the way. Timing gasket set, timing set, and head gaskets, also on the way.

I have new valve stem seals here now ready for installation.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 03-28-2011).]

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Rick 88
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Report this Post03-28-2011 09:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rick 88Send a Private Message to Rick 88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Nice work! You will be very happy with the 3.4. I really like how mine moves my car.

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Report this Post03-28-2011 10:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Rick 88:

Nice work! You will be very happy with the 3.4. I really like how mine moves my car.


I was reading where Pat was very pleased with the way yours went. This was part of the reason I decided on installing a 3.4

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 03-29-2011).]

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Report this Post03-29-2011 07:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Got my timing cover gaskets, rod bearings and rear main seal in the mail today. More parts arriving tomorrow.

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Report this Post03-29-2011 09:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rick 88Send a Private Message to Rick 88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by josef644:


I was reading where Pat was very pleased with the way yours went. This was part of the reason I decided on installing a 3.4



For me, it has more than enough power to be entertaining, yet it gets decent mileage. Mine is a 5-speed and it impresses a lot of people who ride in it. Plus, it looks bone stock and I really like the look of the Fiero V6 engine.

The only engine I would replace this one with would be the new Camaro 3.6 DI V6 with 312 hp and a 6800 rpm redline. Since no one makes a kit or harness, I won't be doing that for quite some time.

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Report this Post03-31-2011 04:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I got my head FelPro gaskets in the mail today. I was sent the incorrect timing set from an E bay seller. 3.4 is supposed to have 3 mounting bolt holes to hold it to the camshaft. This set has none

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Report this Post04-01-2011 02:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

88 Fiero V6 flax plate purchased. Added to the parts pile. One set of Standard Clevite 77 Main bearings,new oil pump, brass expansion plugs and a set of Standard Perfect Circle piston rings ordered. These parts will allow me to assemble the short block. I can get rid of some of these boxes starting to pile up in the spare bedroom.
-Joe

Replacement Timing set on the way.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 04-01-2011).]

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Report this Post04-03-2011 01:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I removed all of the old rings this morning and cleaned the pistons grooves, skirts and rods for new installation parts. I put them each into a one gallon zip lock bag after cleaning to keep them clean . I will work on the oil pan and oil pump in the morning. I am gonna reuse my oil pick up tube in my new oil pump. The bottom of my oil pan is pushed in a bit.

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Report this Post04-04-2011 06:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Cleaned the oil pan up and removed the pick up tube from the old oil pump. I got a new 3.4 dip stick in the mail. Also arriving were 10 brass freeze plugs and a ECM tray for a V6 ECM.

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Report this Post04-05-2011 01:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Today I went and picked up my Perfect Circle Rings, Clevite 77 Main Bearings, and a new Melling oil pump. Total monies added to first post.

I picked up two cans of GM Corporate Blue rattle can paint. I was planning on using Pontiac Blue, but could only find one can in three parts stores. I do not like to use black on engines as it makes finding oil leaks very difficult. A blue and silver engine, in a white car.

Just waiting on my new timing set to put it all together

Ordered new intake gasket set from RockAuto

Forgot to order me an Oil Pan Gasket. O'Rilley's Auto Parts had one local. It is now in the pile of growing engine parts.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 04-05-2011).]

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Report this Post04-05-2011 02:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BMTFIEROClick Here to Email BMTFIEROSend a Private Message to BMTFIEROEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You are moving right along there, Joe!

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Report this Post04-06-2011 11:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks Tim.

This morning I installed the brass freeze plugs on both sides and on the front.

and the front:


Mounted the rear main bearing cap on the block, and put my new oil pump on. I inserted the pick up tube and put the oil pan on the block. Reaching up threw one of the cylinder borers I was able to push the pick up tube up until it touched the bottom of the oil pan. Removed all and measured the height of the end of the pick up tube. Then lowered it 5/8 inch. I will have it tack welded with brass before final installation. These never fit as tight in a second oil pump as they did on the first time around. The tack weld is just good "insurance".

Installed the camshaft after lubing it with assembly lube.

Crankshaft is tomorrow's goal.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 04-06-2011).]

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Report this Post04-06-2011 05:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Go Joe!

I am pretty sure that I will build a 3.4 for my Formula when the 2.8 in it starts getting tired. In fact, I was looking at a couple in the yard the other day. I am thinking of picking up one now and slowly gather parts, etc. I may have missed it but have you settled on a cam yet?

Pat

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Report this Post04-06-2011 05:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I have tried different cams before on other engines I have built threw the years. I think the stock cam will be just fine as I am not going to have the intake reworked. If you install a different grind, you give up either fuel economy or part of your torque curve at either the top or bottom end. Lots of the 'better grind' cams are made to work where the Fiero intake is allmost worthless, which is above about 4500 RPM. Or there about. The factory grind is a pretty good balance. I will not be doing any drag races. And gas is $3.59 here today.

I plan on stabbing the pistons in their bores tomorrow, after the crankshaft is in its lower end and torqued down.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 04-06-2011).]

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Report this Post04-07-2011 01:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Crankshaft , and all 6 pistons are all back home where they belong. Everybody got their correct torque. Waiting on timing gears and timing chain.

Taking my heads to be resurfaced and hot tanked first thing in the morning.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 04-07-2011).]

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Report this Post04-07-2011 08:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rick 88Send a Private Message to Rick 88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by josef644:

I have tried different cams before on other engines I have built threw the years. I think the stock cam will be just fine as I am not going to have the intake reworked. If you install a different grind, you give up either fuel economy or part of your torque curve at either the top or bottom end. Lots of the 'better grind' cams are made to work where the Fiero intake is allmost worthless, which is above about 4500 RPM. Or there about. The factory grind is a pretty good balance. I will not be doing any drag races. And gas is $3.59 here today.

I plan on stabbing the pistons in their bores tomorrow, after the crankshaft is in its lower end and torqued down.



An engine with lot of torque is a lot more fun in daily driving. Is your car a stick or automatic?

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Report this Post04-07-2011 09:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Rick 88:


An engine with lot of torque is a lot more fun in daily driving. Is your car a stick or automatic?


It was a stick shift when I purchased it, but I converted to an automatic for my 4.9 swap. I was happy not dealing with shifting gears for a change. I will stay with the automatic.
-Joe

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 04-08-2011).]

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Report this Post04-08-2011 12:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Dropped off the heads at the machine shop for a valve job. Ordered the gasket that goes on the rear camshaft cover.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 04-08-2011).]

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Report this Post04-08-2011 01:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Click Here to Email pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Boost it You know you want to.

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quote
Originally posted by pontiackid86:

Boost it You know you want to.


No way. Just running well and dependable will make me a happy man.

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quote
Originally posted by josef644:


No way. Just running well and dependable will make me a happy man.


I got ya. its still a hell of a swap your goin through there. I'm guessing the car was originally a 2.5?

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Report this Post04-08-2011 02:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by pontiackid86:


I got ya. its still a hell of a swap your goin through there. I'm guessing the car was originally a 2.5?


It was a 5 speed duke in it's previous life. I added the 4.9 and automatic,until it met it's demise. 3.4 seemed the right thing to do with gas prices around $3.60.
-Joe

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quote
Originally posted by josef644:


It was a 5 speed duke in it's previous life. I added the 4.9 and automatic,until it met it's demise. 3.4 seemed the right thing to do with gas prices around $3.60.
-Joe



Very true. now how did you go about with the wiring? did you use the Duke wiring and convert it to accept fuel injection or did you swap it to a 2.8 harness?

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josef644
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Report this Post04-08-2011 07:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I just added two wires. One for the second injector 12+ signal, and a second for the torque converter lock up. It is fed off of the two stage brake light switch. Jumped shut the clutch switch connector, and good to go. Two wires are not to bad to add in, installing a whole V6 harness inside the body would be a 'Bee" itch. I added the two additional wires into the C203, in the correct two empty sockets.
-Joe

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 04-08-2011).]

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josef644
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Report this Post04-09-2011 08:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Intake manifold gaskets are all here now. Three piece timing set on the way.

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josef644
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Report this Post04-11-2011 03:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The correct timing set arrived today. I will install it on the 3.4 tomorrow. Heads will be ready to come home Wednesday

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Report this Post04-12-2011 11:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I was able to get a few things done this morning. Installed the expansion plug into the block where the crankshaft sensor used to go:


I marked the timing chain gears with a black sharpie pen to make them a bit easier to see and find. GM was kind enough to cast markers on the block to clock the timing chain and gears. Got all three pieces on the engine block:


And the chain dampener back in it's spot:


Got a PM from Poe last evening. The 2.8 he has for me is ready to come to Lake Livingston. I had a brother in law die Sunday from bone cancer. So we have a funeral to get out of the way before I can go get it .

I am at the point now that I need those parts before I can proceed. Timing chain cover, intake manifold pieces, distributor alternator, starter etc.
-Joe

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josef644
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Report this Post04-14-2011 09:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I took my new oil pump to the welder today to have the inlet tube tack welded to the oil pump. Cheep insurance.


I met Tim from Beaumont today and gave him some Fiero pieces that he had purchased from Poe in North Texas a while back. He is pretty sure he has a few things I am in need of. He will be mailing them to me shortly.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 04-14-2011).]

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outlawfiero17
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Report this Post04-15-2011 01:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for outlawfiero17Click Here to Email outlawfiero17Send a Private Message to outlawfiero17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by josef644:

I was able to get a few things done this morning. Installed the expansion plug into the block where the crankshaft sensor used to go:


I marked the timing chain gears with a black sharpie pen to make them a bit easier to see and find. GM was kind enough to cast markers on the block to clock the timing chain and gears. Got all three pieces on the engine block:


And the chain dampener back in it's spot:


Got a PM from Poe last evening. The 2.8 he has for me is ready to come to Lake Livingston. I had a brother in law die Sunday from bone cancer. So we have a funeral to get out of the way before I can go get it .

I am at the point now that I need those parts before I can proceed. Timing chain cover, intake manifold pieces, distributor alternator, starter etc.
-Joe


what size plugs did you use? i have to buy some tomorrow and have no idea what size to get.

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josef644
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Report this Post04-15-2011 05:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

These are brass Dorman # 565-104, 34.3mm freeze plugs.

The expansion plugs are NAPA 600-4001, The sizes are not marked, but the picture reads true. I just gave the NAPA guy the numbers in the picture and he had two on the shelf.


Got a chance to talk to Poe this afternoon. I will be going to his place up north Texas next Friday to get the missing items I ma needing to get this 3.4 in the Coupe.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 04-15-2011).]

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