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ecotec swap by wftb
Started on: 11-16-2006 10:44 PM
Replies: 942 (75864 views)
Last post by: wftb on 01-12-2020 11:05 AM
wftb
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Report this Post10-31-2019 10:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post



Everything fits in under the grills and decklid.
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wftb
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wftb

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Took the car for a few drives and kept checking things over every once in a while and discovered that the lower shock mount on the passenger side had developed a bend to it. Every time I came back to the garage I had to adjust the spring on that side to keep it the same as the drivers side. Then I noticed the downward bend on the plate. Took the lower control arm off and hammered it back to shape and added a piece of angle steel underneath to keep it stiff and that solved the problem.

The car rides a bit smoother, no more thumping so the basic design is sound but it needs some fine tuning. The preload on the passenger side is a little over an inch while the drivers side is only 1/2". But the drivers side is heavier than the passenger side so that seems strange to me. And the bending on the passenger side has not occurred on the drivers side. I am going to brace it the same way just in case but there is also something else out of wack. I am going to drive it up on my ramps so I can crawl under and check the arm angles to make sure they are the same. My best guess is that the lower shock mounts are not quite the same side to side, causing the travel distance of the shocks to be differrent. One of the lower control arms will need to have it's mounting tabs cut off and moved i think. I am keeping a close eye on the upper bolt on mounts to make sure they dont bend and so far they look ok. So a bit more work to get it right, but not a big deal.

[This message has been edited by wftb (edited 11-02-2019).]

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wftb
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Report this Post11-03-2019 09:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Everything is the same side to side except for the position of the upper arm shock mounts as I suspected. The passenger side is a little more inboard than the drivers side, and a bit closer to the mounting plate. Nothing major and because I want to continue to drive the car until the snow flies, I am going to fix it when I put the car away for the winter.
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wftb
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Report this Post11-04-2019 01:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was looking through this thread trying to find the weight of the car the last time I had it on the scales at the local landfill. I guess I didn't post it here but weighed at the 30th it was 2790 lbs. then I weighed it in 2017 at the landfill and it was down to 2746 lbs. Today I weighed it at the landfill and with the recent changes to the intercooler setup it now weighs 2682 lbs. So the weight is down by 108 lbs since I first got it weighed. All weights are with a full tank of gas and me not in the car. The intercooler changes lost 64lbs alone. The steering has noticebly less effort required now, but maybe my new steering wheel has a bigger diameter?

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quote
Originally posted by wftb: Today I weighed it at the landfill and with the recent changes to the intercooler setup it now weighs 2682 lbs. So the weight is down by 108 lbs since I first got it weighed. All weights are with a full tank of gas and me not in the car. The intercooler changes lost 64lbs alone. The steering has noticebly less effort required now, but maybe my new steering wheel has a bigger diameter?


Your weights are really getting down there. i wonder how your car compares to mine? My steering effort is greater now that i have put in the three core radiator and the battery under the headlight, but the light front feeling at 140 km/h is now GONE. Well worth it.

jon

------------------
Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.

Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.

I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

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wftb
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Report this Post11-07-2019 08:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you live in a small town like we do usually the landfill operators don't mind weighing a car. I would be interested to see how my car compares to a stock 4cyl too. So called factory weights mean nothing because they are calculated without any fluids in the car.
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wftb
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Report this Post11-08-2019 10:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I moved the lower spring mounts on the passenger side and it reduced the preload about 1/4" of thread on the shock. Side to side, everything looks very close so I am calling that job done. It snowed 5" here last night, but I am going to keep driving the car if the snow melts. This time of year snow does not stick around here till december normally.

Some time over the winter I am going to swap my 20g turbo for the 16g I used to have on the car. I just think it is a better fit for the engine. It spools up faster and even at high speed in 5th gear it pulled hard. I bought the 20g as a package with the turbo manifold from Hahn racecraft and I should have bought the 16g version. And Hahn no longer makes the 16g version. So I need to make an adapter plate to make the old turbo work on the Hahn manifold. I do not even know if it will fit with an adapter plate on it but if it doesn't I will continue with the 20g.The old turbo with it's triangular turbine inlet:



It was easy to mount this to a stock ecotec exhaust manifold, just drill and tap some holes and bolt it on. The drawback to doing that is I had to use an oil evac pump to get the oil from the turbo in to the sump. And I got rid of all the stock manifolds I used to have. As far as I am concerned the 20g hangs down too far to get good return oil flow but with the big return line it does not seem to back up and leak. The old turbo seems fine, no slop and hopefully it has not developed any leaks from sitting for about 5 years or so. The downpipe mount I made a long time ago should work fine. In the spirit of not spending money this project should just cost me my time.





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wftb
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Report this Post11-28-2019 10:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Started working on mounting the 16G turbo this week and ran in to a few snags- Even though the turbo is physically smaller than the 20G, because of the shape of the turbine inlet and where the air feed and pressure outlet faces, it is impossible to hang it off the Hahn manifold the way the 20G is. So I laid out 120.00 cdn for some gaskets and flanges. Was hoping to not have to spend any money but best laid plans etc. Would have been a little cheaper but they only had stainless flanges in stock.



Tried to make a flange but it needed to have an oval shape and my jig saw just will not make a corner cutting 1/4" thick steel. Would have saved 65.00.



I probably could have carved it with my dremel and about 10 cutting wheels but I decided to use the stainless flange:





Yes the welds look terrible but i had to fill some large holes to get the oval pipe sealed in.I have to run a few more beads and then clean it up a bit with the grinder. On the inside I hope I can smooth things out without running any beads in there but we will find out tomorrow.

The plan is to run the turbo feed pipe in to the area where the intercooler sits now. The intercooler will be mounted down below, where most Fiero's have their cat convertors.
I have had it there before and it works well. I am feeding the turbo with 2" pipe, just slightly larger than the turbine inlet. At one time I had a remote turbo mounted under the remains of my trunk and I fed it with 2" pipe and it worked really well. But the hangers broke a lot and I did not like having to have an oil evac pump. I am hoping to be able to mount the piping for this setup completely on the engine, eliminating the need for flex joints and external hangers. Might not be possible but we will find out.
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wftb
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Report this Post12-01-2019 11:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My original plan to mount the turbo on the dirvers side of the engine bay was a total failure. First off I did not get the initial feeder tube right:



Call it the tube to no where, too low to connect to. While i was mulling over what to do about that, I held the turbo in the desired position and discovered that no matter which way I turned it, the hot side and the cold side outlets were pointing the wrong way. A new plan was needed and I figured some sort of short mount would work. Came up with this:



That almost worked, just needed the pipe cut on an angle to clear the axle and water pump plumbing. Finished turbo mount:



This mount does lower the oil outlet about 2 inches but with everything out of the way I can see there is a good drop to the oil pan.And lots of room to run all the plumbing and it will no longer take me 4 hours to take the turbo off if I need to.:



Now I need to order the Subaru gasket for the inlet to the turbo and I can start bolting things back on to the car.

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wftb
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Report this Post12-01-2019 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


I bolted the adapter on to the manifold with the gasket I bought with the flange. I tightened the manifold nuts and cranked the adapter to manifold bolts up too. I do not plan to take those off anytime soon, the turbo is now removed by taking the three flange bolts off. The turbo is not tightened down as I still need the gasket. But I wanted to hang it and see what kind of room there is to fit things in. It is better than expected and as an added bonus the downpipe from the 20G turbo bolts right up to the 16G. Next step is to get the wastegate installed.
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wftb
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Report this Post12-03-2019 09:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Turbo is ready for install now. Wastegate is on and setup and I welded up a pipe stub for one of the coolant feeds because the original tube was going in the wrong direction. Filled it up with hot water and did not see any leaks. No time tomorrow to work on it but on thursday I will bolt the turbo on and run the oil and coolant feeds and then put it up on the hoist and get the exhaust on.
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cvxjet
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Report this Post12-07-2019 12:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was just reading your thread- Interesting read. I noticed the discussion you had about keeping weight down and especially off the tail for balanced handling. I came up with a way of mounting the stabilizer bars to get better turn-in with LESS DTO (Drop-throttle oversteer)

My car had the Fiero-Typical slow steering response and a small amount of DTO. If I tried to improve the turn-in response I would risk much worse DTO. By doing some creative mounting of my Stabilizer bars, I have extremely good turn-in response and almost no DTO......The car is basically "tossable" like a Front-engined car.....


Do a search for "My Stabilizer bar mounting Theories..." and see if it may help you....

[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 12-07-2019).]

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wftb
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Report this Post12-07-2019 02:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes I have read your thread about the stabilizer bars but I only run a sway bar in the front. I found that once I went to coilovers with 350lb springs ( my original strut/RCC rear suspension) there was not enough roll to worry about. As far as drop throttle oversteer, this car does not have that trait. In the rain or on a gravel road. That is because of the tire size differential between front and rear- 205/16 in the front and 245/16 in the back. All fastback gt's came with 205/215/15 front rear combos but all the old testing and videos I have watched showed that was not enough. I was going to go bigger front and rear when I bought my last set of tires but the sizes I wanted were not available in a 16" rim size.

Typically adding to the drop throtle oversteer problem is when these cars were fairly new most people did not stick to the recomended tire size, opting for the same size all the way around. So they can rotate the tires.

Thanks for the post have a good day.

[This message has been edited by wftb (edited 12-08-2019).]

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wftb
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Report this Post12-08-2019 05:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ever since I swapped in the Ecotec back in 2007 I have wanted to remount the engine because it is not in the engine bay straight. I have not bothered because performance wise it affects nothing. But when I do a big project like changing the turbo and I strip everything away from the engine looking at it just bugs me. So today I decided to do something about it:

I cut up some wood to support the engine and then removed the bolts from the engine and transmision mounts and the dogbone. Then I pried the engine as straight as I could get it with a crow bar:



I raised it up using the dogbone mount underneath the drive pully:



So now it is as straight and level as I can make it. I will have to make a new upper engine mount, modify the transmission mounts and shift the dogbone mount but I am glad I finally made the effort to fix this.

[This message has been edited by wftb (edited 12-08-2019).]

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wftb
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Report this Post12-10-2019 05:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
With all the shifting and straightening of the engine, I was a little worried that my axles would end up not plunging in and out properly. So I unbolted the spindle and pushed the axle in until it bottomed out and put a mark on the transmission case:



Now when I put the wheels back on I can check the axle with a glance. All the mounts are bolted back up now, had to drill new holes in the rear trans mount, slightly bend the front trans mount, drill new holes in the dogbane mount and cut off the upper engine mount and modify an old mount I had used before and weld that in.

][img]http://images.fieroforum.com/userimages/wftb/I MG_2540.JPG[/img]



I also had to put a small notch in the rear cradle cross member because it ended up in contact with the oil pan. Since I have already notched that crossmember once before, I am going to add a brace to stiffen it up a bit. Bit of project creep setting in here.

[This message has been edited by wftb (edited 12-10-2019).]

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wftb
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Report this Post12-13-2019 05:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Working on the exhaust now. Progress is a little slower than I would like because although I can reuse almost everything from the old setup, I had to cut off two of the flanges, clock them and weld them back on to get the cat away from the charge piping and the bottom of the trunk. I figured out a new to me way to keep tubes straight for welding:



I have always used a chunk of angle iron but with C clamps, very awkward. Using big gear clamps is super quick and easy.



The cat is in place now and everything up to it is welded up and one hanger bracket is installed. I like using the rubber donut style of hanger. No clumsy clamps and all you need is some solid rod to bend up and weld in place. The rest of the exhaust is almost done, I have to make another flange to bolt the tailpipe section to the cat and weld a bung in for the secondary O2 sensor in the tailpipe.

[This message has been edited by wftb (edited 12-13-2019).]

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wftb
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Report this Post12-15-2019 10:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
[img]http://images.fieroforum.com/userimages/wftb/84CE1290-109 B-4C81-A8F3-EE0ECBD86829.jpeg[/img]

Exhaust is all welded up and hung. Have to take it off and put the gaskets in and a bit of clean up with a grinder and some paint. Have to do the turbo plumbing before I put it back on.
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wftb
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Report this Post12-15-2019 12:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Above post was first time using my phone. I don't know what happened to the third pic, but overall very easy. And my phone is kind of ancient so the fact it even worked is a bonus to me.
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wftb
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Report this Post12-23-2019 10:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Managed to get the charge pipe done, intake done and exhaust hung today. Started it up and got it warmed up and after changing out a short piece of heater hose I am happy there are no leaks. So tomorrow it goes in to the shed for the winter. All that is left is to tweek the tune a bit but do not have to do that now.




I reused the old coolant reservoir for the air to water IC system only now that the intercooler is down below where the cat used to be I could get rid of the extra piping and just use the white cap you see to top up the system. The tank also provides me a way to get the air out of the system and gives room for expansion. Looks much cleaner now.



------------------
86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

[This message has been edited by wftb (edited 12-23-2019).]

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wftb
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Report this Post12-23-2019 10:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Picture shows the new location of the heat exchanger and the pump. Got rid of a lot of tubing this way. The charge piping is longer now but I have had it this way before and did not notice any difference.
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Report this Post12-26-2019 01:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post








Took these pics just before I put the car in the shed for the winter. All the snow has melted again but the sand and salt and mud is everywhere so no point in driving it. You can see that everything is tucked up above the frame, and how it is a bit crowded around the turbo area. The charge piping runs above the exhaust pipng for a short distance but there is good seperation. Overall there are a lot less places where the charge piping can pick up heat. The area where the heat exchanger is about the coolest spot anywhere near the engine. This is all the work I will do on the car until some time in March probably, when the snow melts again and I can get it out of it's shed.

[This message has been edited by wftb (edited 01-06-2020).]

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Report this Post01-06-2020 05:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


This is my present paint job, done about 7 years ago. It was done with Rustoleum Universal brand rattle cans. It is getting long in the tooth and takes a lot of waxing and buffing to make it look good. I learned a key thing about this paint when I painted a 91 civic wagon: you get a nice gloss and a smoother finish if you paint with the temperature lower than 60F. I had the shed heated to over 70F and that made it impossible to keep a wet edge going as I sprayed. The edge would dry too quick and developed stripes of gloss and semigloss textures. I fixed this by wetsanding and then waxing the finish. And that was a lot of work. I know I can do a better and faster job now. I do not think the colour I have on now is available, at least not at my 2 local suppliers. But gloss white is available, I have always liked white Fiero's so I may go that route. I have time to kill over the winter so this will be a good project.

[This message has been edited by wftb (edited 01-06-2020).]

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Report this Post01-12-2020 11:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


I thought I would experiment on the front hood with some Universal Rustoleum white pearl metallic I bought a while back. The results were bad. I got the same striping that I had trouble with when I painted the grey, even though it was nice and cool in the shed.And it did not come out white, even though the can says paint and primer in one can. I liked the colour it came out but there is no way I can make a good job of it.

I have always found that using mettallic paint out of a rattle can only comes out well on small objects. And this stuff needs a white base to work properly. And none of the stores around here stock white in this product. So I will have to order 12 cans of white gloss unless I find something else.

The reason I like the Rustoleum Universal rattle cans is they can be sprayed sideways, upside down or any angle. And they have a good sized spray pattern making it easy to do large areas.

[This message has been edited by wftb (edited 01-12-2020).]

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