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ecotec swap by wftb
Started on: 11-16-2006 10:44 PM
Replies: 967 (77828 views)
Last post by: wftb on 10-09-2020 11:56 PM
fierodeletre
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Report this Post11-26-2006 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierodeletreClick Here to Email fierodeletreSend a Private Message to fierodeletreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
haha that's funny, I thought all the bad drivers were in Utah. You can find a lot of J bodies in wrecking yards here, just need to find the 04 2.2 manual kind sounds like. Anyways, a crate motor is ALWAYS going to cost more than one pulled from a wreck, that's because someone's already rebuilt it.

wftb- Any luck and or progress integrating the cavalier's key switch into the fiero's?

cheers
Austin
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Fosgatecavy98
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Report this Post11-26-2006 10:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fosgatecavy98Send a Private Message to Fosgatecavy98Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just so everyone knows, I have ordered my Megasquirt standalone engine computer from my sponsor and should be here this week or next, i plan on running the motor outside the car first and then sticking it in the car when the weather is warmer.

If anyone else goes this route, the ecotec ignition will not work yet (not supported), I am going to run a 98 cavailer 2200 ignition its DIS and pretty simple, will mount where the powersteering pump went. I will also have a vid when the ecotec first starts up. ecotecs rule...
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wftb
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Report this Post11-26-2006 11:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i have done this :i added three 12 volt relays into the cavalier ignition switch circuit .these relays break the two 12 awg red wires that read 12 volts hot all the time to the switch ,the green wire that read around 10 volts hot ,and the yellow wire that reads about 6 volts hot.i combined the reds on one relay because they had the same voltage.the relay coils are fed by an ignition activated feed on the fiero fuse box under the dash.in order to prevent grenading of my new starter ,i added a diode in the line from the starter coil feed line to the three relays this prevents any backfeeds to the starter solinoid which is what caused it not to release from the flywheel.i put in the new starter and fired it up using the fiero ignition switch tonight.so no more reaching into the glove box for starting.addmittedly this is a low tech solution ,seeing as the cavalier switch is still in the circuit.but now i just turn it on and forget about it.
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wftb
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Report this Post11-26-2006 11:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the picture above shows where i added the diode.from the purple wire that runs from the fiero ignition switch to the starter sole
noid.the diode connects to the positive side of the added relays to prevent the relay coils dropping out when you turn on the fiero ignition switch.when the switch is in the run position ,it prevents a backfeed to the solenoid.
the megasquirt system looks interesting ,but i like the idea of using as much factory stuff as possible.they have already done all the work.gotta love the plug and play of modern factory wiring.
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Fosgatecavy98
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Report this Post11-27-2006 11:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fosgatecavy98Send a Private Message to Fosgatecavy98Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by wftb:

the picture above shows where i added the diode.from the purple wire that runs from the fiero ignition switch to the starter sole
noid.the diode connects to the positive side of the added relays to prevent the relay coils dropping out when you turn on the fiero ignition switch.when the switch is in the run position ,it prevents a backfeed to the solenoid.
the megasquirt system looks interesting ,but i like the idea of using as much factory stuff as possible.they have already done all the work.gotta love the plug and play of modern factory wiring.



I agree with you with the factory wiring, my motor didnt come with all the wiring so i had to go with megasquirt. But in the end, us Elite Ecotec Users, ( ) are all here for the same cause hehe...

"Ecotec, the replacement for displacement"


looking good btw, if u get a chance post some pics of your motor mounts more closely, I am still deciding on those.
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Mike Bucala
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Report this Post11-28-2006 07:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike BucalaClick Here to Email Mike BucalaSend a Private Message to Mike BucalaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice work. I am about to begin a similar project. I have an 88 4cyl 5spd. I also have a near zero miles 2.2 Ecotec from a wreck, and a 5 spd from a Cobalt SS. I'm putting them together with a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and Cobalt/Saab clutch. I think a header made for a Cavalier/Cobalt will fit as well. I have the full wiring harness and all factory wiring diagrams. I also got the column, gauges, and fuel system. Since I am an engineer for GM, I can at least get whatever technical data I need to complete this project. I think the wiring diagram is available to anyone on line through GM's service website.
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ICouldaBeenAV8
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Report this Post11-29-2006 12:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ICouldaBeenAV8Click Here to Email ICouldaBeenAV8Send a Private Message to ICouldaBeenAV8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
bump.
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StuGood
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Report this Post11-29-2006 12:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for StuGoodSend a Private Message to StuGoodEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mike Bucala:I think the wiring diagram is available to anyone on line through GM's service website.
That sounds like it would be a great resource! If you find a link to the wiring diagrams, could you please post it here? Thanks.

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wftb
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Report this Post11-29-2006 12:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the cobalt / cavilier headers point fairly straight out from the engine so you end up losing a lot of your trunk .i am trying to find a solstice exhaust manifold at a decent price because they point down instead of out.but the only site i found one on doesnt show a pic and i think they will send a cavvy manifold.is the cobalt ss tranny an F35?
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Report this Post11-29-2006 12:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Mike Bucala, let me know if you need someone to hold the drop light. I have a crash pad by Detroit-Metro where I fly for USA 3000 Airlines. Would be nice to know another Fiero owner when I bring mine up next summer.

Ok, someone tell me, what is the advantage to the ecotec over the other engine options?
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fierodeletre
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Report this Post11-29-2006 01:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierodeletreClick Here to Email fierodeletreSend a Private Message to fierodeletreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
speaking from zero experience, I personally would have trouble fabbing those mounts that wftb did, they look fantastic, but it seems the GM guys decided to mount the eco in the cav every where the fiero's motor/trans is not mounted. that and the computer interface issues. I like the fact that the axles fit on wftb's build. I wonder if there's room to reverse the shift cable in the engine compartment, though? Any word on that solstice manifold?
cheers
Austin

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wftb
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Report this Post11-30-2006 08:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
actually the mounts are pretty simple .i have a grinder chop saw and a vice and an assortment of hammers.most hardware stores have steel for sale that will do .i set the assembly on the cradle and cut and bent to suit.as you can see in the pics ,i bolted the mounts on first ,just to hold everything in place so i could trailer it over to my friend Al's so he could weld it for me .he added the boxing on the tall mount .the other side of the front mount is a simple L shape .picture : i have decided not to get the solstice exhaust manifold at this time.i am going to get headers when they become available.
there is lots of room to run the gear select cable in from the the other side of the tranny to avoid modifying the shifter .you need to make your own bracket and still would have to add extension rods to the shifter.
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Fosgatecavy98
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Report this Post11-30-2006 12:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fosgatecavy98Send a Private Message to Fosgatecavy98Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
how much space is there between the motor and trunk?
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wftb
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Report this Post12-01-2006 08:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
there is 7 inches from the valve cover to the top of the trunk firewall .you can vary this distance depending on how much tilt you mount the moter at .the cavalier exhaust manifold juts almost straight out but does end up going below the step in the trunk .i still have the original spring loaded fitting and a stub of the original tail pipe on the manifold ,so there is only room for a tight bend without cutting the trunk.after i get my new pipe on i am going to patch it with sheetmetal and it will only intrude about an inch.if you go to the thread "drove an ecotech powered fiero today "i believe you can see what i mean about the cavalier headers.
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Report this Post12-01-2006 11:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierOmarClick Here to Email FierOmarSend a Private Message to FierOmarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by wftb:

there is 7 inches from the valve cover to the top of the trunk firewall .you can vary this distance depending on how much tilt you mount the moter at .the cavalier exhaust manifold juts almost straight out but does end up going below the step in the trunk .i still have the original spring loaded fitting and a stub of the original tail pipe on the manifold ,so there is only room for a tight bend without cutting the trunk.after i get my new pipe on i am going to patch it with sheetmetal and it will only intrude about an inch.if you go to the thread "drove an ecotech powered fiero today "i believe you can see what i mean about the cavalier headers.


I think you meant: to say "drove an ecotec powered fiero today " (not ecotech).
Thread can be found here:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/061080.html

Sure enough... a picture is worth a thousand (or at least a lotta) words.


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fierodeletre
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Report this Post12-03-2006 01:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierodeletreClick Here to Email fierodeletreSend a Private Message to fierodeletreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
bump.


wftb: So correct me if I'm wrong, but is this megasquirt box everyone's talking about basically a reprogrammed ecm that makes the eco talk to the fiero electronics? How much is one of these? Would this eliminate the need to secret squirrel the ignition switch in the glove compartment? Despite how cool the term is, it would be neat to see it done

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Report this Post12-03-2006 11:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1fastcaddyClick Here to Email 1fastcaddySend a Private Message to 1fastcaddyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
megasquirt is a complete standalone fully programmable DIY ecm with tons of online forum support also. I actually have one that Im tryin to sell if your interested. It was tested to work and I have a harness, although its setup for a TPI v8. Let me know if you, or anyone else is interested. $350 + shipping. Thanks, Drew

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fierodeletre
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Report this Post12-03-2006 06:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierodeletreClick Here to Email fierodeletreSend a Private Message to fierodeletreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Would the programmability of the your 5.7 TPI box lend to its ability to be used for this swap, an ecotec one? And how much is one new, comapred to your $350, that seems pretty reasonable if it was useable in an eco swap.

Austin

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edit:
And is that forum support to be found here on PFF or on megasquirt's site? Also, was I correct in assuming that this type of box would allow you to interface with all the original fiero guages and controls?

[This message has been edited by fierodeletre (edited 12-03-2006).]

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wftb
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Report this Post12-03-2006 06:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i think the megasquirt would probably work fine and then the fiero and cav ecm are simply not needed .the draw back is that megasquirt will not run the ecotec ignition.so you have to add a stand alone ignition system .a distributor can be run off of the power steering drive point.the 1000 hp drag race motor used a distributor like that.
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Fosgatecavy98
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Report this Post12-03-2006 11:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fosgatecavy98Send a Private Message to Fosgatecavy98Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
About the megasquirt, yes the ignition is a draw back, I will be running a DIS ignition off a 1998 cavailer. 2 Coils and should be rather simple once I can find it, my local junkyard said they had one for $35 but they only had '97s and earlier.

(Note: Anyone getting the DIS off a cavailer, its in your best interest to get a 98+ off a 2200 motor. The '97 ones are extremely hard to get to as they are mounted behind the motor, the 98+ are mounted right about the trans/motor area and only require a 13mm wrench and some wire cutters)

I should be receiving my megasquirt stuff this week, I am sponsored by this company ( will say who later) and they have offered to give everyone doing a fiero swap a small discount, so stay tuned on that!

wtfb, what header are you looking at? I will be needing one also, this will most likely be my first upgrade after the motor is running.
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fierodeletre
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Report this Post12-03-2006 11:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierodeletreClick Here to Email fierodeletreSend a Private Message to fierodeletreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow, so um.. why won't it run the ignition? Isn't the eco's ignition run via data from the crank sensor, vaccuum, tps, iat, etc? isn't that what an ecm does? Or rather, couldn't you at least get the pulse data from it and then send it to the injectors? Seems like a waste of money if it doesn't do everything... unless the distributor isn't that hard to do. Would having the distributor make it less efficient? Would you have to do rig up a vaccuum advance on it, too?
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Report this Post12-04-2006 11:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fosgatecavy98Send a Private Message to Fosgatecavy98Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierodeletre:

Wow, so um.. why won't it run the ignition? Isn't the eco's ignition run via data from the crank sensor, vaccuum, tps, iat, etc? isn't that what an ecm does? Or rather, couldn't you at least get the pulse data from it and then send it to the injectors? Seems like a waste of money if it doesn't do everything... unless the distributor isn't that hard to do. Would having the distributor make it less efficient? Would you have to do rig up a vaccuum advance on it, too?


The distributor mention, is placed where the powersteering pump is on the ecotec, the PS pump is on the rear of the motor on one of cams, from what I know it is rather simple. Reason I am not doing it: price, 289 I beleive on ebay for the MSD one. When I can pick up a DIS system for cheap at a junkyard. Megasquirt can do alot but from what I know cannot support that one type of ignition (Coil on Plug)
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wftb
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Report this Post12-04-2006 01:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
so far i havent found a header that will work the way i want it .as mentioned before ,the cavalier headers use up a lot of trunk space.the manifold from the 2.4 solstice motor should bolt right up and it points down instead of straight out.but i am going to wait until someone starts making a header for the solstice and get one of those.there isnt any market for a solstice header yet ,i have gone to a lot of sites and no solstice headers yet.this is what i am stuck with at the moment:
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wftb
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Report this Post12-04-2006 01:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
there may also be interference issues with a solstice style exhaust header or manifold.the solstice doesnt have a drive axle to worry about . in the pictures that archie posted for me ,it didnt look to be an issue but until somebody tries it we wont know for sure.i believe the thread is titled " question for solstice owners "
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Fosgatecavy98
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Report this Post12-04-2006 06:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fosgatecavy98Send a Private Message to Fosgatecavy98Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thats exactly the type of picture I wanted! thanks
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fierodeletre
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Report this Post12-04-2006 10:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierodeletreClick Here to Email fierodeletreSend a Private Message to fierodeletreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That pic from Archie looks like it still juts out pretty straight, but then again, I don't have either in front of me, so it could jsut be a trick on my eyes.

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wftb
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Report this Post12-04-2006 11:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the can you see in the pics is the catylitic converter .it is bolted directly to the solstice exhaust manifold.notice how the outlet is pointed down to the floor and angled back towards the transmission.if that cat were bolted to my cavalier manifold ,it would stick out at about an 80* angle to the engine .instead of pointing at the floor ,it would mostly be pointing at the wall of that building.
i have stopped working on the exhaust for now because i realized i have to do my gas tank mods first or i will end up having to take the exhaust off anyway to make it easy to get at the tank.i am going to put the cavalier fuel pump and sender unit into the fiero gas tank .the fiero pump works ok but it is about 9 lbs light and if i put in the cavvy pump and sender i get a gas guage back again.i dropped the tank and knocked the fiero mount ring off the tank .i have to fix the holes this left and then the opening will have to be cut slightky bigger to fit the cavalier pump. then i am going to bolt the cavvy pump into the tank using a big o ring and bolts through the tank and onto the fuel pump locking ring .i thought i would have to custom make a new tank but it looks like this will work fine .pic of cavvy pump assembly:
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wftb
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Report this Post12-04-2006 11:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

wftb

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gas tank out and locking ring removed
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Report this Post12-04-2006 11:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
this is how i tapped in to the cavalier harness to run the fiero fuel pump .i fed into the fiero fuel pump harness by connecting the grey and black wires of the cav harness directly to the fiero pump feed.the cav bcm has its own relays to turn the pump on and off.
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Report this Post12-04-2006 11:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
that was the wrong tank picture .this one shows the lock ring removed and the cavalier locking device is in the background.
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Report this Post12-04-2006 11:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierodeletreClick Here to Email fierodeletreSend a Private Message to fierodeletreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
hey wftb, I had a few questions about ecotecs for ya: 1: Are both the 2.2 and the 2.4 VVT engines? Also, is the 170hp we've been talking about for the 2.2 you installed, or is that a 2.4 stat? Upon closer inspection of the photo, I can see what you're talking about with respect to the header angle. Kinda a funny place for a cat, but then again I'm not a GM engineer. If I was that solstice would have an eco in the middle and be called a 07 fiero, but that's jsut me. btw looking great on the build, thanks for the pics and info.
Austin

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Report this Post12-05-2006 01:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the 2.4 is a v.v.t. the 2.2 is not.the 2.4 solstice is rated at 177 hp.the 2.2 is rated 140 to 150 hp depending on the car it is in.independant testing of the 2.2 has shown higher than 160 hp. at the crank.so a solstice motor would be a nice catch if you could find one.
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Report this Post12-05-2006 09:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroturboClick Here to Email fieroturboSend a Private Message to fieroturboEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You know WFTB, I heard about that 160hp mark as well, and I've tried finding out if anyone did similar tests on a 2.4L Eco, but haven't had any luck.

GM did similar stunts with the LS1 V8's... writing down a lower HP number than what it really was. They tend to do this to reduce insurance costs of the vehicles.

Project is looking good bud! Keep it up.

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fierodeletre
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Report this Post12-06-2006 01:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierodeletreClick Here to Email fierodeletreSend a Private Message to fierodeletreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Does anyone else find it mildly ironic that a swap in a fwd setup on a rwd car requires a rwd header to clear the engine bay wall? hehe

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Report this Post12-06-2006 05:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroturboClick Here to Email fieroturboSend a Private Message to fieroturboEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierodeletre:

Does anyone else find it mildly ironic that a swap in a fwd setup on a rwd car requires a rwd header to clear the engine bay wall? hehe



Lol
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Fosgatecavy98
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Report this Post12-06-2006 10:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fosgatecavy98Send a Private Message to Fosgatecavy98Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a friend thats a service manager at a dealership, he can get a 06 Solitice Header and gasket for $250
Might be worth it...
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fierodeletre
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Report this Post12-06-2006 10:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierodeletreClick Here to Email fierodeletreSend a Private Message to fierodeletreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
correct me if I'm wrong, but solstices come only with a 2.4, right? whether or not it's turbocharched, it's still a 2.4 Does the 2.4 have the same head as the 2.2? or rather, will the manifolds bolt up/interchange?

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If you can't be good, be good at it.

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wftb
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Report this Post12-06-2006 10:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i saw a price of 165.00 on one of the parts seller websites (list 265.00) .i just dont trust them to send the right one.and then if it is the wrong one ,how do you get your money back ? the return shipping would put you way out of pocket.
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wftb
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Report this Post12-07-2006 11:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i think the heads are at least the same casting.all the different tests i have read only mention how the bore and stroke changes to go from 2.0 to 2.2 to 2.4 .no mention of different valve sizes or head changes other than V V T on the 2.4 .today i got the cavalier fuel pump into the fiero tank and put the tank back in the car.hooked it up to the harness and turned the ignition on and got no noise from the pump .good news is i now have a working gas guage .i dont know why the pump is not working , i hot wired it before i put it in the tank and it ran ok .i really hope i dont have to drop the tank again .i am really sick of gas fumes . this is how the cavalier pump got installed in the fiero tank.i used the fiero o ring on the cavvy pump .i had to cut the hole slightly larger with a jig saw.if you look closely you will see two connectors on this assembly.one feeds the pump and the sending unit for the gas gauge and the other one has three wires going to some sort of sensor.i did not have that connector hooked to anything before so maybe that could be why my pump is not working.
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wftb
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Report this Post12-07-2006 11:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

wftb

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the turbo solstice is a 2.0 litre motor ,not a 2.4 i dont know if it has V V T.
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