I had a little spare time at "work" today so I did some finish work on the air box and installed the retainers.

and a closeup of the retainers:

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-06-2005).]

Another Wow! from the gallery!

and the finished product :


As you can see here, I was able to leave some room for hot air extraction over the air box. The IMSA right side vent, which feeds the oil cooler, supplies the bulk of the incoming air for cooling the engine bay, but it still needs somewhere to exit, on both sides of the car, to carry that heat away.

The day wasn't all good however. during a recent test drive I felt a "pop" in the clutch pedal and now the clutch only disengages when mashed to the floor. shifting is difficult as well. I strongly suspect a broken finger on the pressure plate or a broken throwout fork. I knew better than to accept the general concensus of "all the chev/isuzu setups are that way to and they don't have any problems". With the smaller diameter of the throwout bearing used on the Isuzu, it ends up contacting the pressure plate fingers right out on their tips. I didn't like it then,.... and I sure don't like it now . I anticipated a final teardown, to take care of those little odds and ends that need refinement after you do a build this complex, but I'd really hoped to drive the thing more than 50 miles before doing so. summer will be a memory in just a couple more weeks, and I don't drive my toys in the winter. but O-well....... we live for this stuff.... right??

gone fishing,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-08-2005).]

No work on the IMSA today. Sometimes I just need to get away from it all for my brain to refresh itself, and so far I haven't found a better way to get any farther away from it all than this

Now that my brain is working again I think I'm seeing a potential solution to the non-releasing clutch issue that appears to be one of those "why didn't I think of that sooner" ideas. I won't have time to test my theory until next weekend, but I'm excited to share some (hopefully) good results at that time.
To backtrack a bit, I used a bore scope to peek up inside the clutch and I can't see any broken fingers or fork, but it is hard to see well up there even with the scope. so based on the assumption that the clutch itself is ok, I'm working up a potential solution to get more travel on the clutch fork without affecting the static height of the pedal. I'll post my progress as always .

Cheers,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-09-2005).]

are you launching in a clear area or a ski slope? I never tried the hang-gliding but I hear is is very addictive too!

quote Originally posted by cptsnoopy: are you launching in a clear area or a ski slope? I never tried the hang-gliding but I hear is is very addictive too!

Yes it is addictive. I've been an addict for about 14 years now. we flew at Woodrat Mtn. yesterday which is possibly the only mountain in the world has been modified specifically for hang gliding. the top 300 feet has been blasted away as a rock quary and when they finished up that operation they asked our club how we wanted it to look when they left. they did lots of work for us to sculpt two nice launches. the area below launch was logged at the same time. you can barely make out over the ridge in the distance, the town of Medford, Oregon. I've been near 10,ooo feet (take off is 3800) and stayed aloft for over 3 1/2 hours at this site before.
There is a large club in Phonix also. if you'd like I can get you some contacts there to learn

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-10-2005).]

Concerning the clutch pedal modification I mentioned the other day....
My goal was to increase the slave travel wile maintaining the pedal height at rest.
At first glance it appears to be a simple matter to move the MC pivot pin on the clutch pedal towards the pedal pad in order to lengthen the stroke of the master cyl and therefore the slave. I've done this, and it does work.... but there is an unexpected limitation, and that limitation is that the total length of the piston travel available in the master cylinder is just about used up even in stock configuration. the slave cyl has plenty of travel to utilize, but with the pedal at rest the master cyl piston is resting on the rear snap ring and with the stock pedal buried in the carpet there's less than 3/8" more piston travel before it bottoms in the cyl. one convenient part of the pedal modification I've done is that the master cyl rod eye is offset by 1/4", as shown below, and points up when correctly mounted to a stock pedal. so by simply flipping the rod over the new pedal pin can be moved 1/2" down and still retain alignment of the rod in the master cylinder.
I slipped the modified pedal in the car after work this evening for a test and I see about 1/4" more travel on the slave rod now. the thing is that the master cylinder is bottomed out before the pedal hits the carpet so I'm not sure if this is going to harm the MC. it can't be a good thing however.
The next time I get a few minutes I'll have to check and see if the first gen master has more travel than the late style (which I'm currently using). the concept has merit for sure, but I guess it still has a few bugs to work out.

Never mind, you have it right.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 10-13-2005).]

I wonder if there is a master cylinder with a slightly larger bore? sigh, it never ends...

I would love to learn how to hang glide but then I would have to sell my cars and motorcycle to get the lastest hang glider!

I have not been up in a sailplane in over three years. I keep telling myself that I will go back out and get current again, but the opportunity has not come along in a while.

well piss......... I guess it's not totally unexpected, but I've said "uncle" and began preparation to pull the motor out again. I've got every ounce of travel I can get out of the master cyl now but still no clean clutch release and I've tried everything I can think of on the outside so.....
In the end it will be a good thing as I'll be able to clean up a couple little details that I missed the first time around.
everything is ready on the top side to drop the engine, so tomorrow I'll go underneath and do the deed.

.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 04-14-2009).]

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I remember seeing a writup somewhere about using a Range Rover master, it had a larger bore and the same mounting flange as the Fiero (both being made by Lucas Girling), with maybe the only modification being an adapter for the clutch hydraulic fitting. JazzMan

I currently have 1 1/8" of travel at the slave cyl., and that should be plenty to release the clutch, so there must be an internal problem with the clutch itself. regardless of that however, I will do some research on the range rover unit as it could be a good alternative for my other projects if not this one. it's not like the Fiero hyd clutch system is a trouble free unit afterall.

Cheers,
Russ

quote Originally posted by Russ544: I currently have 1 1/8" of travel at the slave cyl., and that should be plenty to release the clutch, so there must be an internal problem with the clutch itself. regardless of that however, I will do some research on the range rover unit as it could be a good alternative for my other projects if not this one. it's not like the Fiero hyd clutch system is a trouble free unit afterall. Cheers, Russ

You can use a Wilwood master. They are cheaper than stock Fiero clutch masters and can be had in 3/4", 7/8" and 1" bores. To mount you just need a 1/4" steel plate to change the bolt patern, clearance the lower bolt flange on the Wilwood to clear the lower firewall bolt and cut/bend the clutch line to the new location.

I am runing a 7/8" with a hydraulic throw out bearing and had to destroke the clutch pedal travel at least an inch. The 3/4" one would be a good place to start.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 10-15-2005).]

The motor is sitting on one bench and the trans on another, with pieces scattered in between. Certainly not what I expected to find, but I believe I did find the problem. 4 of the 6 pressure plate bolts were backed out 1/2 - 3/4 turn each. I admit to getting forgetfull, but I really can't see myself missing this one as I always pay special attention to these and use the torque wrench on both the flywheel and pressure plate bolts. I can't tell for sure if they had locktight, but I suspect not. needless to say thay have red locktight on them now and are torqqued to 38 ft lb (arp).
time now to do some detail work and re-assemble.

Russ

does this mean that the clutch fingers and throwout bearing looked fine?

quote Originally posted by Russ544: The motor is sitting on one bench and the trans on another, with pieces scattered in between. Certainly not what I expected to find, but I believe I did find the problem. 4 of the 6 pressure plate bolts were backed out 1/2 - 3/4 turn each. I admit to getting forgetfull, but I really can't see myself missing this one as I always pay special attention to these and use the torque wrench on both the flywheel and pressure plate bolts. I can't tell for sure if they had locktight, but I suspect not. needless to say thay have red locktight on them now and are torqqued to 38 ft lb (arp). time now to do some detail work and re-assemble. Russ

That's exactly what happened to me!! I ended up putting a smaller bore slave cylinder on there to get enough travel to release it (used an Isuzu slave on with a Getrag arm), until I pulled the motor for a rebuild and saw what happened.
Sorry I didn't catch this thread earlier, I was going to post about checking the bolts (you can tighten them through the starter hole with an offset wrench I think) until I saw you already pulled it out..
Oh well. . there's always stuff to do when the motor is out ;-)

quote Originally posted by cptsnoopy: does this mean that the clutch fingers and throwout bearing looked fine?

Yaa yaa yaaaaa. there's a heckler in every crowd.

I tried to get a pic of the clutch fingers but I couldn't get the wear patter to show up at all. it's not as bad as I expected, but the contact patch is still closer to the tip than I would like it to be................. but then I'm kinda picky about those kinda things I guess

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-15-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Russ544: Yaa yaa yaaaaa. there's a heckler in every crowd. That was not my intent I was just trying to gleen info for what I should look for when I dig my clutch out of the pile and start looking at how the fingers mate up with the throwout bearing that spec sold me... IP: Logged 10:12 PM Russ544 Member Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003 Feedback score: (3) Leave feedback Total ratings: 86 Rate this member Report this Post10-15-2005 11:10 PM Russ544 2136 posts Member since Jun 2003 [QUOTE]Originally posted by cptsnoopy: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Russ544: Yaa yaa yaaaaa. there's a heckler in every crowd. That was not my intent I was just trying to gleen info for what I should look for when I dig my clutch out of the pile and start looking at how the fingers mate up with the throwout bearing that spec sold me...

LOL. no no... just my weird sence of humor.............no worries mate.

I have a Spec III in the 4.3 but I don't recall if the fingers are straight or crowned like this Mcloud unit in the N*. regardless, the Spec in my 4.3 is also mated to an Isuzu and works well enough except for the chatter on initial engagement. I guess the newer III+ is better in that regard. which version do you have? The Mcloud is really nice on engagement. very firm but no chatter at all and seems to hold the power without effort. Have you been working on your N* again or still working on the fastback?

Russ

I think I have the stage III-hk (whatever that means) It is supposed to hold well but be more street friendly than the original stage III. I got the 86 engine in and running again, along with the notchie rear wiring harness. it is just waiting for the notchie body off the 88. we are starting phoenix to hawaii flights in december so i had to stop working on the cars for a month to study for the over-water training (and the yearly recurrency check) I should be back to work on the cars in early november.

quote Originally posted by cptsnoopy: I think I have the stage III-hk (whatever that means) It is supposed to hold well but be more street friendly than the original stage III. I got the 86 engine in and running again, along with the notchie rear wiring harness. it is just waiting for the notchie body off the 88. we are starting phoenix to hawaii flights in december so i had to stop working on the cars for a month to study for the over-water training (and the yearly recurrency check) I should be back to work on the cars in early november.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh. and there-in lies the secret of the stagename "cptsnoopy".
No sweet on the annual testing thing. just remember.... "airspeed, altitude, and brains.... any two of these will keep you alive". Are you hauling bodies or freight? A buddy of mine flys for Fed-X.
The Spec III-hk is the good one. that should work quite well for you.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-16-2005).]

That airbox looks great man. Looks like it came from factory. I think I'll just use a mandrel bent pipe attached to a K&N in the fender.

quote Originally posted by crzyone: That airbox looks great man. Looks like it came from factory. I think I'll just use a mandrel bent pipe attached to a K&N in the fender.

I had a K&N stuck on the TB adaptor wile I was building the airbox. wanta buy it? used about 2 hours run time. summit KNN-rc-4400 cost me 43.oo . will sell it for 30.oo shipped. BTW. did you get your problem with the shifter and cables straightened out with M? If not I may have a temporary solution to offer you. let me know.

quote Originally posted by Russ544: I had a K&N stuck on the TB adaptor wile I was building the airbox. wanta buy it? used about 2 hours run time. summit KNN-rc-4400 cost me 43.oo . will sell it for 30.oo shipped. BTW. did you get your problem with the shifter and cables straightened out with M? If not I may have a temporary solution to offer you. let me know.

How big is the inlet? If its the same size as the TB I'll definitly buy it. Matt contacted me, things look like they are working out, thanks for the offer!

Levi

wow, an impressive amount of work for a weekend! How far along in the tuning deparment do you feel you are? Are you having any heating problems? Is the street drivablility good?

not a captain at this airline, that was two companies ago. I was hauling pax then. the next company was freight. this company is pax again. Fed-ex would be the place to work. I guess I better keep an eye on the airspeed and altitude...

quote Originally posted by crzyone: How big is the inlet? If its the same size as the TB I'll definitly buy it. Matt contacted me, things look like they are working out, thanks for the offer! Levi

Yup. 3 1/2" inlet. I'll pm you my address.

edit. O crap I forgot you live in another country. I'll have to ck shipping cost tomorrow to see if I need to pay to to take it

RC

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-17-2005).]

I had a lot of business related things to do today so not much got done on the IMSA except for installing the ECM cooling fan in the side of the console. I sealed off the area surounding the fan, and the entire r side vent, with foil tape so the incoming air is forced to go over the ecm and out the top vent opening. Power was tapped off of the old injector circut (red/blk) which is very convienient to access under the console and provides a fuse for the fan.

I've had this idea of making a GT-40 looking dash for a couple of years but just never got around to it. one of the things that held me back was that I wasn't willing to loose the maze of heat/defrost vents within the dash, as well as the heater controls, or the radio, and I figured it would just be a nightmare to incorporate all these items into a whole new dash, so the thought occurred to me to keep the majority of the dash and just replace the instrument pod portion. ... one thing led to another and well........... here we go again
After the third prototype in poster board the design has come to this one, now in aluminum. I think this version will meet my requirements nicely but I do want to remove about 3/4 inch from the flat portion of the top. it looks a bit "fat" to me right now.
note that the face plate over the radio and heater control portion is part of the new dash pod face.

by hacking off a slice of the front surround, the instrument portion gets a slight angle for better viewing and it becomes easier to merge the dash face with the surround. a bit of shimming behind the heater control, to match the new angle, and a bit of modification to the dash vent will be needed as well. Things like lights and trunk popper will be controlled by toggle switches placed on an angled plate which will be to the right of the steering column.


Eventually this will be formed in fiberglass and at the moment I'm planning on using the stock speedo and tach but replacing the rest of the gauges with ones that actually read correctly.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-23-2005).]

Huuummm. what I thought was gona be my dash turned out to be prototype # 17.65 . As much work as it's turning out to be to design and build these things I figured it would still be worth it to just start over again rather than try and re-do a design I didn't really like to begin with. Originally I intended to make the entire dash out of fiberglass, but the more I worked with the aluminum "mold" the more I liked the idea of using it for the permanent face, so that's the direction I'm going on this one.
After cutting out the dash face outline, but before opening up any holes in it, it was used as a partial mold, along with a temporary aluminum "surround" to develop a mounting flange for the face.

after the resin cured on that, the surround was removed and trimmed. The gauge holes then got cut into the face and it was placed inside the flange where it will eventually be attached with pop rivets.

One of the many challenges of this project is to figure out how to secure the new dash pod to the car. after all the pieces are finished I plan to cut the whole thing in half, just to the left of the console portion, to facilitate future service needs. so the left end needs to have it's own secure mounting system. At the moment I'm thinking of using a portion of the old cluster housing and grafting that onto the back of the new pod somehow. no sense planning too far ahead however, as that might take some of the challenge out of it .

quote Originally posted by Russ544: I've had this idea of making a GT-40 looking dash for a couple of years but just never got around to it. one of the things that held me back was that I wasn't willing to loose the maze of heat/defrost vents within the dash, as well as the heater controls, or the radio, and I figured it would just be a nightmare to incorporate all these items into a whole new dash, so the thought occurred to me to keep the majority of the dash and just replace the instrument pod portion. .... Eventually this will be formed in fiberglass and at the moment I'm planning on using the stock speedo and tach but replacing the rest of the gauges with ones that actually read correctly.

Yep, it works for me. Keep up the very good work. I like it.

------------------

Archie's Choptop conversion #11, #15, Redux & The Stealth

I spent the day today redesigning the speedo, tach, idiot lights and odometer to mount behind the aluminum faceplate. this isn't exactly what Pontiac had in mind when they built these, so it took some doing. After the faceplate mask and clear covers were hacked to size, spacers of various lengths needed to be fabricated (I knew I'd been saving that old broken fly rod for a reason) and bonded on to provide three mounting stands per gauge. The odometer was severed from the speedo and moved over to the middle of the dash as I thought it would look funny sticking out the top of the dash pad. moving that just requires extending the 4 wires that run it.

I just found this thread. I'm REALLY enjoying it. Keep up the great work!

------------------
-Rick Stewart
85GT 5.0CaddyV8/Getrag 5-spd in progress...
www.V8Fiero.com

EDIT: Welcome aboard GT. As I stated at the beginning of all this, as long as people are interested, and I have something to post, I'll keep posting my progress (or regression ).
==============

Almost forgot to mention.. My favorite uncle, Stewart Warner, came to visit over the weekend and brought some gauges and red LEDs for each.
I also have a Pontiac CD player coming.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-30-2005).]

Looking good. What have you chosen to keep tabs on?

quote Originally posted by GonsaiPK: Looking good. What have you chosen to keep tabs on?

Thanks GonsaiPK.
The gauges are water temp, oil pres, volts and a fuel gauge. the lights will be turn signal, hi beam, parking brake, ajar, and [blank] .

Contrary to popular belief, I haven't fallen off the edge of the earth. The dash project continues, however the motivation has become more one of sheer stubbornness than anything else. this defiantly ranks as one of the major PITA projects I've ever embarked upon, as virtually every facet of it has been repeated numerous times in an effort to reach the level of quality I require of my projects. My trash can is overflowing with rejects. Today I completed the foam shaping, and layed on a layer of fiberglass to form the dash "pad" portion. I'll do some bodywork on that tomorrow and share a pic of my (painfully slow) progress.

pass me another Corona,
Russ

You say its a PITA, I say you should publish this as a book when you're done. I'd buy a copy.