As I gather parts for the swap I'm planning next year, digging through many threads and stuff I came across a thread here where a member sent a spreadsheet complete with the parts needed to complete the swap.

Anyone have a copy of this by chance? It would be much appreciated if I would be able to get a copy!

Thanks!

Edit: look down for a list of parts I compiled for the swap.
------------------
"Discord"
Red 1988 GT under restoration!

Let's Go Mets!

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[This message has been edited by Shho13 (edited 08-10-2017).]

You do realize that thread is over 12 years old... the 4.9 swap has lost a bit of momentum since then and not sure if any of the folks involved are still into Fieros let alone 4.9. Now having said that there is a lot of information posted since that time and the 4.9 swap is well understood compared to back then.

Good luck on your swap.

Oh, I absolutely realize that it's that old!

I've been acquiring parts for this swap slowly over the past year or so... I just figured it wouldn't hurt to ask if anyone had a copy of the old spreadsheet for another reference to look at.

------------------
"Discord"
Red 1988 GT under restoration!

Let's Go Mets!

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I just purchased a Fiero with a 4.9 over the summer. I still need to pick it up but the plan is to take that 4.9 out and put it into my GT. Until I swap an LSx motor in way later down the road. With all that said this guy John's 4.9 will be very helpful to you with the swap. He is also active in this forum just recently.

Thanks for the tip!

I talked to John in another thread! Great guy! Gonna get his mounts, mini alternator kit, and headers!

------------------
"Discord"
Red 1988 GT under restoration!

Let's Go Mets!

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

PFF member Radar also has a 4.9 swap and has a lot of knowledge related to this engine swap.

Nelson

quote Originally posted by Shho13: As I gather parts for the swap I'm planning next year, digging through many threads and stuff I came across a thread [url=https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000015.html ]here[/url] where a member sent a spreadsheet complete with the parts needed to complete the swap. Anyone have a copy of this by chance? It would be much appreciated if I would be able to get a copy! Thanks!

I have a complete 4.9L auto setup in my garage on a cradle waiting to be installed. Its not a hard swap ( stick is even easier) and if you can find a good engine they are inexpensive. You are welcome to come over to see it and take pictures. The car is located in Neshanic Station, NJ . Swap procedure is the nearly the same as the 3800. Mount powertrain to the cradle (trans uses GM mounts engine aftermarket and one custom mount) , change fuel pump, run fuel , water, trans lines (auto) do the wiring (or buy a harness) , re-route the belt (uses std GM idler and tensioner) and add axles ( auto only) . Hardest item is building the exhaust but you can buy all stock bends, a flange, spintech muffler and have it all welded together. Additionally you will need a modified accelerator cable bracket and trans cable bracket (auto) . If you can get passed all this, smooth performance and 200HP@275 ft lbs is the result. I am installing mine in a ragtop for smooth long distance highway cruising. Since Photobucket shut us all down, I don't post pictures here right now as I look for another image hosting site that doesn't ask for $400/yr.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

The 4.9 uses the same fuel pump as the 2.8 V-6.

That's what I was going to ask is what fuel pump you used, cause I kept same fuel pump with no issues in my 4.9 swap. It is a great dd once you get it done though. I don't do any track time either, but it is still a thrill for me. Good luck with your swap and enjoy it.

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: I have a complete 4.9L auto setup in my garage on a cradle waiting to be installed. Its not a hard swap ( stick is even easier) and if you can find a good engine they are inexpensive. You are welcome to come over to see it and take pictures. The car is located in Neshanic Station, NJ . Swap procedure is the nearly the same as the 3800. Mount powertrain to the cradle (trans uses GM mounts engine aftermarket and one custom mount) , change fuel pump, run fuel , water, trans lines (auto) do the wiring (or buy a harness) , re-route the belt (uses std GM idler and tensioner) and add axles ( auto only) . Hardest item is building the exhaust but you can buy all stock bends, a flange, spintech muffler and have it all welded together. Additionally you will need a modified accelerator cable bracket and trans cable bracket (auto) . If you can get passed all this, smooth performance and 200HP@275 ft lbs is the result. I am installing mine in a ragtop for smooth long distance highway cruising. Since Photobucket shut us all down, I don't post pictures here right now as I look for another image hosting site that doesn't ask for $400/yr.

Hey Dennis! Yeah man I still gotta get down there to see what you have going on one of these days! Just been crazy busy and haven't had the time... I'll try to call you to set something up soon to come over and check it out. As for picture hosting, I use Imgur.com.

The aspects of the swap I'm most concerned about is how the fuel and coolant lines will get to the engine, as well as the modified throttle cable. I've read up a bit on the coolant stuff, and apparently the easy way to do the thermostat it is to take the 4 cylinder thermostat housing and weld it to the 4.9's, though Some say that's not even needed to be done, as the 4.9's will work as is with an in-line filler; though id rather have a Fiero thermostat for easy filling. I also read that coolant hoses off the 4 cylinder are needed to attach to the water pump on the passenger side. Throttle cable is one off a 4 cylinder as well I've read, modified to shorten it up a bit, though I'm not sure how much the Allante intake will change that... (looks like I need to find someone parting out an 88 4 cylinder to get all this stuff). I still am not 100% on fuel delivery to the Allante rail, either.

Everything else I am buying from somewhere to make this hopefully as "bolt on" as possible; harness (hopefully from phonedawgz), flywheel will be removed from my car and brought to the machine shop to be milled and re drilled to 4.9 pattern, stage 3 clutch from eClutchmasters, Inc, engine mount, dogbone, low mount alternator with idler (not sure if this will work with AC though, I gotta ask John), and headers/exhaust system that line up to where the factory Fiero exhaust is from 4.9 John Performance. I don't have a garage, so I have to dodge the weather as well as being limited by the setting sun so I don't have any time or means to fabricate anything, as Ill be under the shade of my tree on the side of my house.

------------------
"Discord"
Red 1988 GT under restoration!

Let's Go Mets!

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[This message has been edited by Shho13 (edited 07-29-2017).]

quote Originally posted by Shho13: ...Throttle cable is one off a 4 cylinder as well I've read, modified to shorten it up a bit, though I'm not sure how much the Allante intake will change that... (looks like I need to find someone parting out an 88 4 cylinder to get all this stuff). I still am not 100% on fuel delivery to the Allante rail, either.

I would attempt to use the V6 cable, if you can.
My 4.9 was installed as removed from the Deville, so it got the 87-88 throttle cable.
I retained the same throttle cable when I switched to the Allante stuff, but it appeared that the stock V6 throttle cable would have worked as well, provided it was long enough.
The Allante has a pin on the throttle lever, similar to the V6. The 4.9 has a slotted hole that a "peg" on the end of the throttle cable fits into.
I adapted a little clamp to attach the peg to the pin on the throttle lever. I'll see if I can find pics. I've got 'em someplace.

Edit -

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-29-2017).]

I have both a 4.9 swap with an auto and an Allante intake 4.9 swap on a manual trans in two cars that I drive almost daily. The V6 throttle cable will work for the standard 4.9 but is not long enough for the Allante intake installation.

Rolland

There's no need to low mount the alternator on a 4.9 install.

I'm sure you've scoured PFF and read all the different 4.9L build threads. Lots of great reading out there. Here's another for you... https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/129733.html

I'd recommend going with an LSC Performance flywheel. You won't save much money by drilling and plugging your existing flywheel, and you'll sleep soundly knowing the new one won't come apart. I drilled and plugged mine, but then I questioned the strength of it. I used my CNC mill to center-drill the hole locations and then drilled them through on the drill press. The drill bit went through the flywheel like it was butter...made me really nervous about the strength of the steel. I put it aside and got the new one from LSC.

Olejoedad, I was thinking about doing it just to make it look cleaner... However, I don't know if it works with the AC compressor on there as well. I'll find out when I talk and order the parts from John!

Neil, I have read and re read and re re read again your swap thread! The information you provided is amazing and extremely helpful! Your install is amazing, by the way... Props to you!


Question for anyone listening: I don't have the AC compressor for the 4.9... any idea if it's the same compressor that is already on my 2.8 and I can just move it over?

------------------
"Discord"
Red 1988 GT under restoration!

Let's Go Mets!

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

My '85 has a 4.5 Cadillac (predecessor of the 4.9). According to the builder, it's using a stock Chevy truck computer for a TB injected V8. I can tell it's not really been tuned for the engine. Has anyone got a recommendation for a computer re-tune?

With the correct pulley, a Fiero A/C compressor can be used.

quote Originally posted by sourmash: My '85 has a 4.5 Cadillac (predecessor of the 4.9). According to the builder, it's using a stock Chevy truck computer for a TB injected V8. I can tell it's not really been tuned for the engine. Has anyone got a recommendation for a computer re-tune?

I would assume that the engine would run like poop if it was not tuned properly... There is VATS and everything that had to be tuned out of it in order for the thing to run in the first place... I assume after sending the ECM out to get it programmed and stuff to remove all the un-needed stuff the car will run well enough to bring to a place to get properly tuned.

Thank you for the info Olejoedad!

Today I ordered the Allante starter, and the spacer that goes behind the throttle body on the Allante intake... I don't know where the spacer that spacer may be, but it didn't come with my upper Allante Intake when I got it...

------------------
"Discord"
Red 1988 GT under restoration!

Let's Go Mets!

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[This message has been edited by Shho13 (edited 07-30-2017).]

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: The 4.9 uses the same fuel pump as the 2.8 V-6.

Yes but pump performance is usually not the same after 30 years of use. IMO, with any engine swap the original fuel pump should be changed for reliability. That's why its on my swap parts list.

quote Today I ordered the Allante starter, and the spacer that goes behind the throttle body on the Allante intake... I don't know where the spacer that spacer may be, but it didn't come with my upper Allante Intake when I got it.

The Allante starter may be needed only with the stick swap. The 4.9L starter fits the auto swap. As for the Allante intake I would recommend getting everything up and running before going with it. That manifold may move the torque curve but doubt if it will improve power significantly. Wonder if any before and after dyno tests were done with it.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 07-30-2017).]

For an example, I'll try this week to get a look at or even a shot of my AC compressor since mine is functional and works well.

quote Originally posted by Shho13: I would assume that the engine would run like poop if it was not tuned properly... There is VATS and everything that had to be tuned out of it in order for the thing to run in the first place... I assume after sending the ECM out to get it programmed and stuff to remove all the un-needed stuff the car will run well enough to bring to a place to get properly tuned.

Thanks. It runs pretty fair. Seems a little rich at times.

A few more stupid questions for you guys...

1) Thermostat cap you guys use on the rear... Ordered a recommended Moroso 63740 on the rear by the thermostat... What the heck cap would you guys recommend to put on there? To add to the cooling aspect, from what I read in a few different build threads; the 4 cylinder hose off an 87 connects from the driver side coolant pipe - to the Morso - to another small piece of hose to the factory 4.9 thermostat housing... This is how some of you guys are doing it?

2) Anyone have a part number or any specific Intel as to the smaller hose that comes off by the thermostat housing? This is the small port that goes to the "heater return"? It runs down the valve cover and goes to what? I thought the heater return on the later cars was integrated into the coolant pipes?

3) The exhaust: a 93 DeVille exhaust system's crossover that goes over the engine and transmission... will that interfere with the shifter linkage on a Getrag transmission? I was originally debating getting a set of custom headers from John's 4.9 performance, but his headers go smack dab where the AC lines are supposed to run and I'm thinking I'd rather fab up my own custom exhaust than AC hoses... I want to put a Zoomie exhaust cutout before the muffler for on demand open headers for rolling into car shows!

Thanks for any info guys!

------------------
"Discord"
Red 1988 GT under restoration!

Let's Go Mets!

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[This message has been edited by Shho13 (edited 08-10-2017).]

1). No need for a fill point on the engine, the stock thermostat housing works perfectly. After the initial fill, all coolant adds should be to the front expansion tank anyway.

2). The hose from the stock thermostat housing is routed to the heater core. The return line goes to either the passenger side coolant tube on 87 - 88, early cars use the elbow on the water pump housing. Be sure to plug the elbow on the pump housing if not used.

3). The crossover pipe can be rerouted or you could run duals by using 91 Seville exhaust manifolds. True duals would require dual O² sensors....

[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 08-10-2017).]

Heh, thanks man... I should just ask you directly, you're helping me so much!!! haha

I figured that the Moroso thing would make filling easier to deal with... Needed that last few dollars to clear the free shipping on Summit Racing so I figured why not since I read that a few guys were running it... I may still use it since I have it, we'll see what happens when I actually get this thing going and how ugly it will be sitting there. I love the way your engine looks Olejoedad and I can only hope mine looks as good as yours does when it's done...

I'm still trying to nail down how to run these coolant lines - from what I gather so far, the big outlet on the water pump connects right to the factory V6 hose that is already there, apparently with a reinforcement zip tie to keep it away from the AC compressor pulley. In my case, since mine is going to be in an 88, the smaller hose off the water pump gets blocked off, as stated by Olejoedad above... others say to fill with JB weld, brazed, or whatever technique to seal it off, and capped for good measure. the hose that connects to the coolant pipe on the driver side is a 4 cylinder hose (87 duke hoses are available from the Fiero Store) that connects from the driver side coolant pipe, up to that Moroso 63740, then a small piece of the hose taken from the original hose at that port from the Cadillac to the bigger of the 4.9 thermostat housing ports. *The hose I don't know how I'm going to run yet is the smaller of the hoses from the thermostat housing to the heater core return line...* It seems that I'll have to fab up my own custom crossover pipe I guess, eh? That's ok! Some of my favorite TV shows are watching the car-build guys and seeing their amazing fab work and how it's done. I would love to figure out how to do it. My priority is to simply have the engine in the car and the car mobile for small things like taking the lawnmower out of the shed and things like that (I have a terribly designed driveway for working on cars) so stuff like making an exhaust can be created in due time. I plan on cutting the trunk bottom out for more room to put a bigger and longer style 2.5 exhaust complete with an electronic exhaust butterfly cutout. I'm going to keep the single O2 sensor with no catalytic converter.

I ordered all the stuff to make the fuel lines from Summit... Going to do stainless steel lines off the fuel rail to the factory Fiero fuel hoses. Gonna mount and route them along the trunk wall and connect to Fiero lines under the battery's soon to be former location. I will be relocating my battery.

I'm going to make this post a master list of what I have ordered to keep record for myself and anyone else in the distant future who may want it down the line in a nice orderly fashion. I love having everything organized and in one location. This is a mixture of a lot of research (with Photobucket making all pictures unavailable to look at anymore it made things really difficult), and soon, experience. This list is consisting of many pre-made parts to make this swap as "bolt in" as possible.

Hi everyone from the future reading this!

Battery relocation:
Battery relocation tray from V8Archie
2 gauge welding wire kit with required terminals, 25 feet
"Battery terminal relocation block" to mount in a convenient location the right side where stock battery was (still currently is at this point) - This is to allow easier jump starting if battery dies. (cable run from battery "+" to starter, to relocation block.
"-" ran from battery to starter mounting bolt)
Conventional battery and terminals to rid myself of that stupid GM side post design

Engine intake:
Stock Fiero air filter thingie to "82-87 4 BARREL 88-92 TBI CAMAROFIREBIRD V8 AIR BREATHER INLET FLEX DUCT" to the stock 4.9 throttle body etc cover thingie

Clutch and flywheel:
eClutchmaster Stage 3 clutch kit for an 85-88 Fiero GT 2.8 5 speed. Part number: EC-82105HP3-EXE-FIR
To save a few hundred dollars I will be re-using my flywheel and bolts. Bringing it to machine shop as soon as I drop the engine to get plugged and drilled to 4.9 pattern. Many have done this with good results. Otherwise, many have used SPEC or LSC Performance to make a new custom flywheel to the tune of $300. EDIT: I decided to get a new flywheel from LSC Performance. IIRC it was around $250.

Fuel lines:
-6 AN to 14mm x 1.5 adapter, AN Flare to Metric, Part number: EAR-AT991954ERL (three of these, two to connect to 4.9 fuel rail to custom made SS fuel lines, one to factory Fiero hose)
-6 AN to 16mm x 1.5 adapter, AN Flare to Metric, Part number: EAR-AT991955ERL (one of these, from factory Fiero hose to custom made SS fuel line)
-6 AN Fitting, Hose End, Straight, -6 AN Hose to Female Part number: SUM-220690B (four of these, to make the SS fuel lines)

Harness:
Out of my hands in my case, as I ordered one from Olejoedad. Thanks again!
If you want to make your a harness, check out Mickey_Moose's thread here. A lot of pictures went missing making life extremely difficult, but I saved a copy of it a year or so ago. I recently made a post (page 4, which is linked above) in the thread with an archive of screenshots I took a long time ago complete with the lost pictures so all the information back where it belongs, albeit at the end of the thread.

ECU programming
Sinister Performance

Exhaust:
Stock 1993 Cadillac DeVille exhaust manifolds, fabbing up custom routing as required to clear the shifter cables, slave, etc. After headers I will be using 2.5 inch exhaust pipe after the headers as I want to cut my trunk to fit a bigger exhaust and muffler setup while adding an exhaust cutout to make my neighbors angry! :P

Cooling:
As stated above, I'm still trying to nail down how to run these coolant lines - from what I gather so far, the big outlet on the water pump connects right to the factory V6 hose that is already there, apparently with a reinforcement zip tie to keep it away from the AC compressor pulley. In my case, since mine is going to be in an 88, the smaller hose off the water pump gets blocked off, as stated by Olejoedad above... others say to fill with JB weld, brazed, or whatever technique to seal it off, and capped for good measure. the hose that connects to the coolant pipe on the driver side is a 4 cylinder hose (87 duke hoses are available from the Fiero Store) that connects from the driver side coolant pipe, up to that Moroso 63740, then a small piece of the hose taken from the original hose at that port from the Cadillac to the bigger of the 4.9 thermostat housing ports. *The hose I don't know how I'm going to run yet is the smaller of the hoses from the thermostat housing to the heater core return line...*

Mounts:
I originally wanted to go with John's 4.9 performance engine mounts, but he unfortunately doesn't have 88 mounts available yet. If they are not available by springtime, I will be ordering a set of everything I need to attach the engine and my Getrag transmission to the cradle through West Coast Fiero.

Oil Cooler Bypass:
Procedure - https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...110502-2-104610.html

Throttle cable
Modifying a V6 cable for the 4.9 - https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...041015-2-052836.html

Idler and tensioner:
Idler - Off a 1990 Chevy Astro Van 4.3 V6 with no AC according to Mickey_Moose's "4.9 wiring thread" mounted like in this pic by Mickey_Moose under alternator. Use spacers behind it to get it lined up correctly so belt doesn't get torn up. Part number: GATES 38007

According to the info I found, I don't remember the thread unfortunately, but this is info I wrote down for the bolt to mount the pulley: 17mm bolt for pulley, GM part number: GM24501175 name: F-bolt/screw

Tensioner - 3.4 Camaro tensioner Part number: DORMAN 419107 (Credit again to Mickey_Moose) https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...050818-2-052483.html Apparently you will need a longer bolt for the alternator bracket due to the tensioner.

Tensioner bracket (Credit to Oldbob):


"The material is 1/4" x 3/4" hot rolled steel.
The short leg is 2" long with a 11/32" hole in the end.
The long leg is 4" long with a 13/32" hole in the end.
The angle between the two legs is 50 degrees.
The two legs overlap about a half inch at the weld. The short leg
is in front of the long leg.
There is a 15/16" long spacer between the lower bolt and the
threaded hole in the manifold.

There is a stop projection on the stationary part of the tensioner
which can be removed which will allow more movement of the
arm in the clockwise direction. Gives a little more room to slip
the belt on.

Bob"

Belt:
From what I gathered in a few spots, anywhere from 79" - 80.5" belts (take this with a grain of salt, this can vary) 6 ribbed. Pro tip: take some rope or twine and loop it around each pulley in the correct routing you desire... mark where they meet and measure the distance. Boom, you have a basic idea of how long your belt needs to be! Should be smaller than that number, remember!

Air Conditioning:
The Fiero hoses will reach and work with the Cadillac compressor. The mounting on the Fiero's AC lines may need to be loosened to reach though. Fiero compressor is interchangeable, though you need to swap the pulley from the Cadillac to the Fiero's to ditch the Fiero's "V" belt style pulley.

Am I missing any other info guys? This is ALL the information I have consolidated for this swap so far.

------------------
"Discord"
Red 1988 GT under restoration!

Let's Go Mets!

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[This message has been edited by Shho13 (edited 01-08-2018).]