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Clutch problem from hell. Anyone have any ideas? by CKDrums
Started on: 12-03-2014 07:45 PM
Replies: 42 (831 views)
Last post by: CKDrums on 02-01-2015 02:10 PM
CKDrums
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Report this Post12-03-2014 07:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CKDrumsClick Here to visit CKDrums's HomePageClick Here to Email CKDrumsSend a Private Message to CKDrumsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I own a 87 GT 5speed 90,000 miles, original motor and tranny. A while ago I noticed the clutch was slipping so I took it to a shop to have it replaced. They put a replacement Exedy clutch in and after 100 miles of driving the clutch pedal felt like it hit a brick going only half way to the floor. So the shop took it back and after removing the tranny they could see the clutch fork had over rotated somehow and kinda jumped the throwout bearing. Basically the fork arms were resting on the top of the bearing instead of under the wing tabs. So I ordered a new fork and the shop got another new clutch hoping either could correct the issue. Once again it happened (the fork jumped the throw out bearing). The shop spend days trying to figure out what was going on (including spending hours on here looking for solutions) The attachment arm that bolts on the clutch fork outside the trans. case was not bent, and could only go on one way. So this time I ordered a new slave and master cylinder from Rodney Dickman and his bleeder kit, the shop ordered a Centerforce clutch and another clutch fork. They made sure the clutch pedal was not bent at all, made sure the adjustable banjo on the master cylinder was in the correct position, bled the clutch with the rear driver side of the car in the air and bled for 5 minutes past no air. The car drove great for 50 miles. So tonight thinking all was fixed I had an alignment done. Pulled it off the rack and put it in 1st gear and pop the clutch goes half way to the floor and feels like its on a brick once again. This problem has me wondering what in the world is going on to cause this and now makes me fear driving my car even after its working again. Does anyone have any idea what's going on. The shop is very reputable and it known for being great but even they are confused and simply don't know what else to do. The only parts that they have not replaced are the flywheel, and the clutch fork bushing. Both looked good according to the shop. If anyone has any tips or clues or suggestions please do so. Thank you very much!
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Report this Post12-03-2014 08:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tuggajbClick Here to Email tuggajbSend a Private Message to tuggajbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What dose the shaft that the bearing rides on look like ? No groves on it
Bearing has to ride snug on it or will tilt and cause all types of problums
.
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CKDrums
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Report this Post12-03-2014 09:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CKDrumsClick Here to visit CKDrums's HomePageClick Here to Email CKDrumsSend a Private Message to CKDrumsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The shop said they checked it and it looked fine.
Here are a few pics. The first is before it was cleaned. Don't know if they help any.[url=]before cleaning[/url]
[url=]after cleaning[/url]
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Report this Post12-03-2014 09:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
They are probably using the wrong throwout bearing/clutch fork combination. Probably the Isuzu and Getrag parts in some combination.
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LornesGT
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Report this Post12-03-2014 09:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LornesGTSend a Private Message to LornesGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I agree ^ that last pic looks like the forks are wider than the bearing. I know my clutch combination for Advance Auto had the wrong bearing and bought the right one from Fiero Store.

[This message has been edited by LornesGT (edited 12-03-2014).]

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Raydar
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Report this Post12-03-2014 10:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:

They are probably using the wrong throwout bearing/clutch fork combination.


Either that, or they installed the wrong pressure plate, and it's allowing the bearing and fork to overextend.
But probably the wrong bearing or fork, as fierofool said.

In all the years I've been messing with Fieros (since '97?) this is the first time that I've ever heard of this happening.

Edit - Did they try comparing the old throwout bearing to the new one?

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 12-03-2014).]

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CKDrums
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Report this Post12-04-2014 07:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CKDrumsClick Here to visit CKDrums's HomePageClick Here to Email CKDrumsSend a Private Message to CKDrumsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
These pictures were taken without the throwout bearing im sorry. Anyone have a picture of the proper throwout bearing. The shop used a new one from the parts store but ill have to ask to see if it was similar to the original. They did wonder why there was no clip that held the fork arms or fingers on the throwout bearing.
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Report this Post12-04-2014 08:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This would be the correct throwout bearing for a Getrag transmission. http://www.fierostore.com/P...spx?s=54144&d=79&p=2

i also looked at TFS clutch forks and I see a discrepancy in their supposed Getrag release fork information. It lists the fork as for the 85-88 V6, when in fact the 85 and early 86 V6 used one style and the late 86 and later V6 used a different style. I wasn't aware that the 88 used a different style, so maybe they're referring to the late 86-88 production years as the Second Design.

If the throwout bearing has spring clips on it, then it's for an Isuzu trans. This thread describes how to identify the different transmissions. Right now the pics won't open for me so I don't know if the release fork area is shown, or not.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/063783.html
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CKDrums
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Report this Post12-04-2014 09:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CKDrumsClick Here to visit CKDrums's HomePageClick Here to Email CKDrumsSend a Private Message to CKDrumsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Can anyone explain what functionality differences there are between style 1 and style 2 clutch forks?
Style 1: http://www.fierostore.com/P...0%20%20%20%20%208688
Style 2:http://www.fierostore.com/Product/Detail.aspx?s=54030%20%20%20%20%201988

Is it possibly enough of a difference to cause this issue?
Is the Isuzu throwout bearing thicker. The one the shop used on my car did not use a clip and looks identical to the one pictured in the fiero store.
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Report this Post12-04-2014 11:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I cannot......

I cannot explain the price either. It seems that you could find a bad transmission with a good fork for half that price.
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CKDrums
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Report this Post12-04-2014 12:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CKDrumsClick Here to visit CKDrums's HomePageClick Here to Email CKDrumsSend a Private Message to CKDrumsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is there any solution like some sorta clip or tie that can hold the throwout bearing to the clutch for arms. Kinda like the other fieros have. This is crazy that 3 clutches, a special master and slave cylinder, new throwout bearings later we still have the same issue. What could we be possibly be over looking. The throwout looks exactly like the one that is sopost to go in and we've used 2 different new ones, the clutch fork looks exactly the same 2nd one we've used, 3 new clutches one being a centerforce. The flywheel is in spec. What could be allowing that clutch fork to over rotate or travel like this? This is very frustrating to say the least. Thanks for everyone's help so far.
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Report this Post12-04-2014 01:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mcguiver3Send a Private Message to mcguiver3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The TOB for that transmission should have tabs both in front of the fingers and behind to capture it.
No clips or springs.
I did get a clutch one time that had a different TOB. turned out they shipped the wrong one in the kit.
I''ve done 6 clutch swaps on those over the years with no issues.
The fingers look OK , the bearing sleeve looks good and as long as the shaft bearings are OK the arm should not be the problem.
Is there pic of the TOB you are using?
That could help us out.
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CKDrums
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Report this Post12-04-2014 01:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CKDrumsClick Here to visit CKDrums's HomePageClick Here to Email CKDrumsSend a Private Message to CKDrumsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Once they get it apart I'll snap a picture of the TOB. Its identical to the one the fiero store sells. They were kinda shocked the centerforce clutch didn't come with one buth the 2 previous kits did. Same one but times, same as the one in there now, same as the original one. How much back and forth play should the clutch fork have installed but outta the car on the ground. It does move that direction as well as rotating. But it's very smooth.

[This message has been edited by CKDrums (edited 12-04-2014).]

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Report this Post12-04-2014 01:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have been using LUK clutch assemblies for many years. It seems that irregardless the brand and parts stores, there is some incorrect information regarding the hydraulics and the clutch assemblies.

I've found that if I want the correct clutch assembly for an 86 4-speed, I must order one for an 85 V6. If I want the correct assembly for an 86 5-speed V6, I must order it for an 87 V6. The reason is that 86 was a changeover year utilizing all transmissions available to the Fiero.

Something you and your shop should know is that the throwout bearings are specific to the transmission and it's release fork. The bearings aren't interchangeable and can't be modified to work on the other transmissions. The 4-speed trans bearing has flat spots on the shoulder and slides up into the fork. Those flat spots keep the rear piece from rotating. The others have spring clips on the Isuzu and you already know what the Getrag bearing looks like. It should be obvious if you have the correct bearing for the fork. I do believe that the forks can actually be interchanged, though, so now that you've had the forks replaced, they may be the wrong fork for the bearing you have in hand.
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Report this Post12-04-2014 04:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for masospaghettiClick Here to Email masospaghettiSend a Private Message to masospaghettiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Not sure if this is relevant but I got a clutch assembly for my 5-speed Getrag and everything fit and worked great - BUT - the throwout bearing was the incorrect one. It was completely round, no tabs, no way it could work. Sachs brand clutch kit. I had to order a separate throwout bearing. Rockauto was nice about it and sent me one for free.

Seems like there's some serious packaging problems with these clutch kits.

Oh and while you have the transmission out, inspect the input shaft bearing sleeve, right at the base. They tend to crack and break off. Mine was cracked about 1/3 the way around. Rodney sells an excellent kit if yours is cracked, the factory style bearings are no longer available.

[This message has been edited by masospaghetti (edited 12-04-2014).]

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CKDrums
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Report this Post12-04-2014 04:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CKDrumsClick Here to visit CKDrums's HomePageClick Here to Email CKDrumsSend a Private Message to CKDrumsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The first time the clutch was changed (original reason for this whole thing) only a new clutch kit was put in. The old fork still remained in and the throwout bearing came off the fork afterwards. Odd thing is the throwout bearing that came with that clutch kit clearly fit and I was able to drive the car for 50 miles. Only after this happened did they start buying all the other parts (Rodney Dickman slave, master)
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CKDrums
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Report this Post12-04-2014 04:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CKDrumsClick Here to visit CKDrums's HomePageClick Here to Email CKDrumsSend a Private Message to CKDrumsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here are just some pictures of the world I'm living in the past 5 months. Dident know if maybe we are just over looking something.
[URL=http://s8.photobucket.com/user/BLownSub/media/Mobile%20Uplo ads/20141119_164951.jpg.html][/URL][IMG]http://i8.photobucket.com/albu ms/a18/BLownSub/Mobile%20Uploads/20141119_171854.jpg[/IMG] 30 minutes before it happened again.
Centerforce clutch being installed

[This message has been edited by CKDrums (edited 12-04-2014).]

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CKDrums
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Report this Post12-06-2014 11:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CKDrumsClick Here to visit CKDrums's HomePageClick Here to Email CKDrumsSend a Private Message to CKDrumsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think I'm gonna pick up another transmission and let the shop give it a try. I have these three to pick from I know the far left one I don't think I'm interested in but I was told the middle and right ones are 5 speed Getrags. I'm confused because of the large mounts still bolted on them. These are privately owned but I'm told they are around 100k and are 100% good. Any help with identification of there home cars would be great or any other tips. [URL=http://s8.photobucket.com/user/BLow nSub/media/Mobile%20Uploads/01212_i6Z1JoXRaly_600x450.jpg.html][/URL]
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Rodney
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Report this Post12-06-2014 01:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CKDrums:

I think I'm gonna pick up another transmission and let the shop give it a try. I have these three to pick from I know the far left one I don't think I'm interested in but I was told the middle and right ones are 5 speed Getrags. I'm confused because of the large mounts still bolted on them.

All are from FWD cars. Corsica etc. All look to be Getrags. In the top picture the one on the left has a reluctance speedo meter wheel and would need the Dakoa digital speedometer adapter. The 2 on the right are gear driven speedometers and need no speedo adapter. Your speedo wire will plug right in. All will need my FWD conversion kit. The cast release lever will need to be changed to your cast lever. The FWD lever is too short. All the mounts on them are removed. You reuse your Fiero brackets etc.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

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All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
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7604 Treeview Drive
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Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Report this Post12-06-2014 01:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Rodney

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Member since Feb 2000
Possibly on the 2 on the right - the driven gear on the speedo sending unit might be a different tooth count than the Fiero depending on the tire size used in the FWD car. But removing that sensor can be difficult as it is probably somewhat well corroded in place. Also be careful the gear does not drop in the case. That may not be possible on the Getrags. It is a problem on the 4 speeds.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Report this Post12-06-2014 04:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mcguiver3Send a Private Message to mcguiver3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
An yet, still no picture of the TOB you were using?
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Report this Post12-06-2014 04:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for larry mimbsClick Here to Email larry mimbsSend a Private Message to larry mimbsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have an 84 with 2.5 and 4 speed that has been doing fine since I bought it 3 years ago. A few days ago, it developed the same problem. Clutch goes down about halfway and feels like it hits a solid stop.
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CKDrums
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Report this Post12-06-2014 04:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CKDrumsClick Here to visit CKDrums's HomePageClick Here to Email CKDrumsSend a Private Message to CKDrumsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry no TOB picture yet. The shop has not taken my car back apart yet. In the first picture you can see it in the top left. Thanks for all your info about those transmissions.
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CKDrums
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Report this Post12-06-2014 11:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CKDrumsClick Here to visit CKDrums's HomePageClick Here to Email CKDrumsSend a Private Message to CKDrumsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Has anyone ever compared a throwout bearing from The Fiero Store to a normal parts store one for the 87 GT getrag?
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Report this Post12-07-2014 11:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by CKDrums:

Has anyone ever compared a throwout bearing from The Fiero Store to a normal parts store one for the 87 GT getrag?


I'm sure they are the exact same thing. They get what is available in the aftermarket the same as what any customer can get from any parts supplier. Napa, Auto Zone, Rock Auto etc.

I tend to think changing the trans is not the answer but what else can you do? Maybe make sure you absolutely have the correct throw out bearing, pressure plate and clutch disc. Maybe post some pictures.


------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Report this Post12-07-2014 01:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogt28Click Here to Email fierogt28Send a Private Message to fierogt28Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Be careful here...the getrag TO bearing is different than the Isuzu TO bearing.

The getrag has 2 solid "ears" sticking out on each end. The Isuzu has 2 "ears" but they are made
with a wire style mounting.

Make sure you have the right TO bearing for the application.

As a reference, take a look at the fiero store web-site as you can see the difference from the photo in the clutch
section.

------------------

fierogt28

88 GT, Loaded, 5-speed.
88 GT, 5-speed. Beechwood interior, All original.

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Report this Post12-07-2014 01:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogt28Click Here to Email fierogt28Send a Private Message to fierogt28Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by masospaghetti:

Not sure if this is relevant but I got a clutch assembly for my 5-speed Getrag and everything fit and worked great - BUT - the throwout bearing was the incorrect one. It was completely round, no tabs, no way it could work. Sachs brand clutch kit. I had to order a separate throwout bearing. Rockauto was nice about it and sent me one for free.

Seems like there's some serious packaging problems with these clutch kits.

Oh and while you have the transmission out, inspect the input shaft bearing sleeve, right at the base. They tend to crack and break off. Mine was cracked about 1/3 the way around. Rodney sells an excellent kit if yours is cracked, the factory style bearings are no longer available.



Yes indeed, this could be a problem. Back 6-7 years ago jelly2m8 replaced the clutch on one of my 88GTs.

The clutch I demanded was the dynapak clutch made by Fenco. He mentioned that the clutch kit had the wrong TO bearing.
He just went to the parts store a quickly exchanged the wrong TO bearing for the proper getrag TO bearing. (upon re-order at N/C)

For proper operation especially for a car that is over 25 years old, the fiero needs a complete clutch system inspection, or replacement.
Yes, from the pedal, master cylinder, clutch line, and slave cylinder. Then internally...the clutch plate, pressure plate, TO bearing, and input shaft bearing.
The clutch flywheel has to be resurfaced, no question. Plus the shift cables have to be in good order without issue.
They can become worn, from heat, etc. Be sure the insulation is in very good shape. If not, Rodney has the best cables out there
for the price...you can't beat that.

Ohh, the clutch TO bearing needs to be inspected at the forks for wear. The lower needle bearing that the shaft ride / rotates on needs to be checked, too.

------------------

fierogt28

88 GT, Loaded, 5-speed.
88 GT, 5-speed. Beechwood interior, All original.

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CKDrums
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Report this Post12-20-2014 12:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CKDrumsClick Here to visit CKDrums's HomePageClick Here to Email CKDrumsSend a Private Message to CKDrumsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just dropped the transmission out again. I took lots of pictures. The first is of the bell housing immediately after removing to show you the location of the clutch fork to the TOB. The shop seems to thinks it's gotta be a problem within the new parts (TOB) mostly.[URL=http://s8.photobucket.com/user/BLownSub/media/Mobile %20Uploads/20141220_113153.jpg.html][/URL]
[IMG]http://i8.photobucket .com/albums/a18/BLownSub/Mobile%20Uploads/20141220_112806-1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/BLownSub/Mobile%20Uploads/20141220_113002.jpg[ /IMG]
These next two pics show you how much this TOB can rotate on the fork. Its not snug at all (Not sure if it's sopost to be)[URL=http://s8.photobucket.com/user/BLownSub/media/Mobile%20U ploads/20141220_112502-2.jpg.html][/URL]

[This message has been edited by CKDrums (edited 12-20-2014).]

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Report this Post12-20-2014 12:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CKDrumsClick Here to visit CKDrums's HomePageClick Here to Email CKDrumsSend a Private Message to CKDrumsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
[URL=http://s8.photobucket.com/user/BLownSub/media/Mobile%20Uplo ads/20141220_113202.jpg.html][/URL]
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Report this Post12-20-2014 12:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The throwout bearing has moved behind the forks? There are flat places on each side of the bearing behind those large flanges. Then behind that are two small tabs that stand out and help to keep the bearing from floating against the pressure plate. If the bearing is rotating, then the forks aren't close enough together. There should only be a small amount of rotation in the bearing. It should fit snugly but not tight. Here are a couple of pictures of the bearing. The bearing dimension that I have is 2.668 inches.

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Report this Post12-20-2014 12:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tebaileyClick Here to Email tebaileySend a Private Message to tebaileyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
From the pics I would say something isn't right with the TOB. If you get that much rotation it will pop off one arm and spin off the other.
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Report this Post12-20-2014 03:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do you have both bushings on the shift fork? There is one where the fork goes in and one at the bottom where the end sits. Also, where it goes in,..in the pics, the case looks cracked, is it?
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CKDrums
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Report this Post12-21-2014 02:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CKDrumsClick Here to visit CKDrums's HomePageClick Here to Email CKDrumsSend a Private Message to CKDrumsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes there is a bushings in both ends. You can move the fork back and forth a bit but when everything's back on the car and ready to go it doesn't move. I wish I still had the original TOB to compare. I'm gonna have them mic this TOB to compare (by the way thank you for that picture). Does anyone remember how snug the TOB should sit on the fork. I don't wanna mask the problem but could just bending the clutch fork arms in a bit possible fix this? I have 2nd new fork as well. Yes That is a crack you see and we dove into that being the problem but the shop owner (tech. as well) said he's pretty positive there is no effect from that.
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post12-21-2014 02:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If the slave is reaching the end of it's throw, on a properly bled system the clutch pedal will feel like it is hitting a brick.

How far does the slave pushrod push back the slave cylinder? If less than 1 1/4" that is on the start of finding your problem. If that was the case the first thing I would try is a longer pushrod. Shoot for 1 1/4 or slightly more movement from full extension of the slave cylinder.

The problem could be a bent fork throw out fork, or bent slave cylinder throw out fork. The slave fork could have slipped on the pivot shaft. The slave might not be positioned as stock. The pushrod might be short for some unknown reason.

With the engine and transmission out of the car it will be difficult to determine how far the slave pushes the slave piston up the cylinder at rest. Put the clutch transmission engine together and try to measure carefully.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 12-21-2014).]

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fierofool
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Report this Post12-21-2014 03:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by CKDrums:

. Does anyone remember how snug the TOB should sit on the fork.


It should fit snugly but not need to be forced. The space between the ends of the fork should be less than half the distance of the flat surface and the round surface of the bearing. My bearing measures 2.685, a difference of .017. The spread of the forks should be not more than 2.6765 and the forks should be parallel and not have a wider spread at the tip than at the base.

These dimensions are from an NSK bearing, but all bearings should measure very close to that, regardless the brand.

Can you tell us if the bearing did move behind the forks as shown in the first picture? If it did that would definitely mean that the spread of the forks is too wide.

And can you post a picture of your slave and pushrod with a measurement of the length of the rod?

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 12-21-2014).]

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tebailey
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Report this Post12-21-2014 03:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tebaileyClick Here to Email tebaileySend a Private Message to tebaileyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What dimensions do you have between the forks? I think you should check those against a known good one.
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fierofool
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Report this Post12-21-2014 03:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think it may be possible that when the bearing contacted the first clutch disk that was installed, it spun the part of the bearing that should be stationary, spreading the forks. Now that he's corrected the disk problem and has a new bearing, there is too wide a gap in the forks to keep the new bearing from spinning as a whole unit.
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CKDrums
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Report this Post12-21-2014 04:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CKDrumsClick Here to visit CKDrums's HomePageClick Here to Email CKDrumsSend a Private Message to CKDrumsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes after this happends everytime when they remove the transmission the fork arms are resting on top of the TOB. I don't have a mic here but I took some basic measurements. The distance between the inner fork arms remains the same from tip to base. The measurement I took was 2.75 inches (ruler measurement not a mic) from inner fork to inner fork. With the TOB on the fork there looks to be a 1/8th inch gap from TOB side to 1 inner fork arm. My TOB is the exact same as pictured in fierofools post except I have a P stamped in the place of what looks like a G on his. I'm using a Rodney Dickman Slave and Master cylinder. 2 of the 3 times this happened I have been able to drive my car for 50-100 miles then randomly the TOB will come off the clutch fork. Keep in mind the fist time this problem happened was after only the clutch and TOB were replaced (not the clutch fork yet) That's when we changed the fork out. I only took the car in to get the slightly slipping clutch replaced in the begining (not this problem). I also purchased Rodney Dickmans bleed system and had the drivers rear of the car in the air when it was bleed. And once it was bleed they continued to bleed to make sure no air was in the lines. And yes the clutch when bleeding goes to the floor.
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fierofool
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Report this Post12-21-2014 04:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
By your numbers, the forks are too far apart. They are wider than the outer diameter of the bearing. They should be narrower than the largest diameter of the bearing. I'd bet that if you put the bearing into the transmission, you can force the shell of the bearing to rotate between the forks. Once the tabs are vertical, it can slip behind the forks.
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CKDrums
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Report this Post12-21-2014 05:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CKDrumsClick Here to visit CKDrums's HomePageClick Here to Email CKDrumsSend a Private Message to CKDrumsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:

By your numbers, the forks are too far apart. They are wider than the outer diameter of the bearing. They should be narrower than the largest diameter of the bearing. I'd bet that if you put the bearing into the transmission, you can force the shell of the bearing to rotate between the forks. Once the tabs are vertical, it can slip behind the forks.


I'm confused? If the diameter of the TOB needs to be larger then the distamce between the fork gap the TOB could not fit in the fork. Also this problem occured before we even swapped out the clutch fork. It happened the fist time with the original fork in that we later realized actually was not the problem.
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