Wanted to start a thread to discuss ideas / plans / mods completed on our cars. There is a TON of content on here for the 3800 guys, but not much for us. So, what mods and things have you had success with and what is on your to do list? Found any good vendors that specialize in N*'s like Cadillac Hot Rod Fabricators to get upgrades?
For me I have an 87 GT with a 295HP H/O version out of a 93 Eldorado ETC. It has the 3.71 gears in the 4T80, but currently is locked out of 1st gear and that prevents me from launching very hard. Will have that programming fixed this winter. My car is on the heavier side at 3063lbs as weighed at the 30th last summer. I moved the battery up to the front to help offset the rear weight bias some. Only noticed minimal impact however. Added TFS front and rear swaybars and that seems to help lessen the "Fat Arse" feeling a little bit more. My favorite upgrade so far has been the power steering rack from WCF. It's a Camaro rack so it feels like a proper sports car rack. Its tight with plenty of feedback and not overly boosted (which I was worried about). The only con is due to the location of the P/S Pump you do hear a little wine, but for me that is acceptable. Next up for mine is the Wilwood 13" Brake Kit. It's installed, just waiting for the 17" rims from TireRack to get here. I don't know how the rest of you all feel, but even with the upgraded brake booster, TFS Vented upgrade kit and master cylinder I still did not feel my car had adequate braking for the amount of power the car has. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. I got a chip from Ed Wright of "Fast Chips" and it is great. Car runs way better and makes enough additional power to register on the old Butt Dyno I highly recommend it to any of you guys running ODB I.
In the future I am thinking about going stand alone on the transmission controller and adding paddle shifters. I also want to go stand alone with EFI Live for the ECU to give me better flexibility with future upgrades. Eventually I would like to upgrade the heads, cams and valve springs. I'm also thinking about a mild NOS set up (50-75HP Shot). Anyone got any experience or thoughts on these ideas?
[This message has been edited by jediperk (edited 11-02-2014).]
Well, besides all the Cadillacs I've driven, been in the car with, and see on Craigslist daily I wouldn't expect people to swap in the N*. Besides the fact that the engine has a HUGE issue with blowing head gaskets, I can only assume how much it is to swap into a fiero. If im spending high amounts of money, I'd rather do an LS4 swap. The N* replaced the 4.9L which was one of the best engines Cadillac ever designed. The 4.9 isn't nearly as powerful, but it is 10X the engine over the N*.
Sorry I didn't answer your questions.
------------------ Every fiero has a story, It's our job to keep that story alive.
Well, besides all the Cadillacs I've driven, been in the car with, and see on Craigslist daily I wouldn't expect people to swap in the N*. Besides the fact that the engine has a HUGE issue with blowing head gaskets, I can only assume how much it is to swap into a fiero. If im spending high amounts of money, I'd rather do an LS4 swap. The N* replaced the 4.9L which was one of the best engines Cadillac ever designed. The 4.9 isn't nearly as powerful, but it is 10X the engine over the N*.
Sorry I didn't answer your questions.
I agree with you totally about starting from scratch today. I'd definitely go LSX. But, this thread is for those of us that already have N* swaps. My brother has the 4.9 in his Fiero and it feels the same as my N* in normal driving. It's only when you go WOT and get past 3K rpm when you can tell a huge difference. I think a 4.9 with ported and polished heads and a good reground cam would be a great swap mated to a Getrag though. Especially in a 308/328 kit. You keep the V8 sound and would probably be faster than the real thing to boot. I actually thought about switching to an LSX engine instead of upgrading my N*. The problem is drive train though. The 4T80 is as stout as they come. Actually, you just made me think of a really good question.
Does anyone know if the 4T80 can bolt directly to an LSX engine?
[This message has been edited by jediperk (edited 11-02-2014).]
I am the new owner of fieroaddictions turbo N* and I have PBJs N* turbo kit. My turbo LS4 is what has taken up all my time lately so I can't really give you the benefit of my experience. Aluminum 48 valve V8? I think that they're at the least interesting and if you ever saw curlys N*s or Bloozeberrys you would have to say that they can be really pretty too. I know about the headgaskets. They can be fixed. Anyway, hope your next replies are not as negative as the last one. The N*s have their lovers too.
I am the new owner of fieroaddictions turbo N* and I have PBJs N* turbo kit. My turbo LS4 is what has taken up all my time lately so I can't really give you the benefit of my experience. Aluminum 48 valve V8? I think that they're at the least interesting and if you ever saw curlys N*s or Bloozeberrys you would have to say that they can be really pretty too. I know about the headgaskets. They can be fixed. Anyway, hope your next replies are not as negative as the last one. The N*s have their lovers too.
My N* was originally done at Fiero Addiction as well. Is yours the one with the turbo in the trunk? I thought about putting a turbo on mine, but for how I use my Fiero it would be a waste of $$$. It's way more power than I can use on the street now and the only racing I do is at the strip where NOS is much more cost effective. Are you running a stand alone on ECU for the turbo?
Originally posted by jediperk: Does anyone know if the 4T80 can bolt directly to an LSX engine?
While the bellhousing patterns are very close (1 bolt off), the physical size of the 4T80 and the width of the LS(x) block and Y block construction (block is well below the center-line of the crankshaft) keep the two from being able to get close enough to bolt together. If it was possible to use the 4T80, GM would have gone that route in the first place.
While the bellhousing patterns are very close (1 bolt off), the physical size of the 4T80 and the width of the LS(x) block and Y block construction (block is well below the center-line of the crankshaft) keep the two from being able to get close enough to bolt together. If it was possible to use the 4T80, GM would have gone that route in the first place.
Thanks for the info (yet again). You are a great resource to all of us.
I think a 4.9 with ported and polished heads and a good reground cam would be a great swap mated to a Getrag though.
This is what I have and I love it. I added the Delta cam which does help quite a bit in the upper RPM's. For a daily driver its fantastic. I get 29mpg with taller tire sizes (245/45-17). It jumps off the line but also cruises very nicely.
I'll keep checking in on this thread as well. I think it's a great idea to have a Northstar "corner". There's lots of info out there but it's spread out everywhere and can be tough to find since some of it is in the archives now. Perhaps a good idea would be for jediperk to edit his initial post and turn it into an index of sorts with links to as many Northstar threads as can be found, along with a short description of the contents. It would be a great start to consolidating the Northstar specific info in one place. I know I've kept links to many early threads and routinely refer back to them to see what others did. Let me know if you think this is a good idea and I'll gladly post a bunch of them.
I'll keep checking in on this thread as well. I think it's a great idea to have a Northstar "corner". There's lots of info out there but it's spread out everywhere and can be tough to find since some of it is in the archives now. Perhaps a good idea would be for jediperk to edit his initial post and turn it into an index of sorts with links to as many Northstar threads as can be found, along with a short description of the contents. It would be a great start to consolidating the Northstar specific info in one place. I know I've kept links to many early threads and routinely refer back to them to see what others did. Let me know if you think this is a good idea and I'll gladly post a bunch of them.
That's a great idea! Post those links. That would really add a lot of value to the thread. Also, what is the low down on your N*?
Well, besides all the Cadillacs I've driven, been in the car with, and see on Craigslist daily I wouldn't expect people to swap in the N*. Besides the fact that the engine has a HUGE issue with blowing head gaskets, I can only assume how much it is to swap into a fiero. If im spending high amounts of money, I'd rather do an LS4 swap. The N* replaced the 4.9L which was one of the best engines Cadillac ever designed. The 4.9 isn't nearly as powerful, but it is 10X the engine over the N*.
Sorry I didn't answer your questions.
Some Northstars have head gasket issues. The vast majority do not. It is an excellent drivetrain in all respects.
I am the new owner of fieroaddictions turbo N* and I have PBJs N* turbo kit. My turbo LS4 is what has taken up all my time lately so I can't really give you the benefit of my experience. Aluminum 48 valve V8? I think that they're at the least interesting and if you ever saw curlys N*s or Bloozeberrys you would have to say that they can be really pretty too. I know about the headgaskets. They can be fixed. Anyway, hope your next replies are not as negative as the last one. The N*s have their lovers too.
Is there a thread on either FieroAddictions Turbo N* Build or the PBJ N* Turbo Kit - links please.
[This message has been edited by 88GTS (edited 09-20-2014).]
My car was a northstar / getrag.. I built it in about 2003-2004. Wasn't a bad motor. My problems all came from the holley commander stand alone I used (complete crap). I found the aftermarket was expensive and everything was specialized. Bone sttock my 275hp motor made 260hp @ the wheels with the commander (again horrible) I think if you plan to go Automatic the LS4 is the only solution. The manual was easy to bolt up, cut the ribs out of the bell housing and built a small adapter. I had the Spec alum flywheel... The car was fast but the gearing never felt as though it was paired correctly with the engine. It felt very hot rod-ish. My motor suffered an oiling failure and the car sat in storage for several years.. Not sure what I am going to replace the motor with (not a northstar). I have recently started working on the car and thats the 1 thing I have yet to make a real decision on...
I think it's a great idea to have a Northstar "corner".
I've been thinking about starting a Northstar swap knowledge base thread. I have come up with a number of elegant solutions to the modifications which have to be made to the engine and car in order to get everything to fit nicely.
quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:
Blah blah blah
You're an idiot. Come back when you figure out which end of a screwdriver to use.
//
Here's some motivational imagery:
Built shortblock with 11.5 compression, CP pistons, Total Seal gapless top rings, Calico piston coatings, Eagle Rods, Cometic gaskets and ARP studs. Block has timeserts in main and head bolt holes, and was honed out to 3.670 bore with use of a torque plate. Engine management was LS1 computer with Shelby program. Exhaust is dual 2.5" with X-pipe.
Still running STOCK heads, STOCK intake manifold, STOCK cams, stock throttle, modded production forward manifold
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 09-21-2014).]
My N* was originally done at Fiero Addiction as well. Is yours the one with the turbo in the trunk? I thought about putting a turbo on mine, but for how I use my Fiero it would be a waste of $$$. It's way more power than I can use on the street now and the only racing I do is at the strip where NOS is much more cost effective. Are you running a stand alone on ECU for the turbo?[/QUOTE]
The turbo and intercooler is in the trunk. 300hp whether it's an LS4 or a N* is plenty in any Fiero. I just go by the old hot rod saying "Too much horsepower is just about right" ECU is holly commander 950 pro. I'll try to get the link that fiero guru posted on the build. There is a u tube video of it running.
[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 09-21-2014).]
Wanted to start a thread to discuss ideas / plans / mods completed on our cars. There is a TON of content on here for the 3800 guys, but not much for us. So, what mods and things have you had success with and what is on your to do list? Found any good vendors that specialize in N*'s like Cadillac Hot Rod Fabricators to get upgrades?
. I got a chip from Ed Wright of "Fast Chips" and it is great. Car runs way better and makes enough additional power to register on the old Butt Dyno I highly recommend it to any of you guys running ODB I.
In the future I am thinking about going stand alone on the transmission controller and adding paddle shifters. I also want to go stand alone with EFI Live for the ECU to give me better flexibility with future upgrades. Eventually I would like to upgrade the heads, cams and valve springs. I'm also thinking about a mild NOS set up (50-75HP Shot). Anyone got any experience or thoughts on these ideas?
mine has a chip from Hypertech the PO ordered , I have pretty much no info and can not find any info on it,,
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87GTseries 1 3800sc (7.597 @88.53 1.579 60ft) (series II swap in progress) 85GT Northstar/ 4t80e 86GT 3800 n/a---sold Northstar Rebuild
Here's a starting point for some old threads... there are more to come as well as links to newer threads from Will, Rickaddy88GT, cptsnoopy, and others.
i have a vin Y motor and trans from an 06 DTS. Got the drive train from a Detroit area auto wrecker with approximately 40 k miles for $1000.00. Spent this past winter on the install with lots of info gleaned from this forum as well as lots of wiring advice from Darth. Darth also tuned the stock 06 ECM/TCM and it runs rock steady with 0 issues. If I was doing it again today I would likely have kept my manual trans as I'm a bit disappointed with the low end torque at the wheels. In fact I have a hard time even spinning the tires, but get it over 3000 rpms and it is like lighning. Kick it down at cruising speeds and it will snap your head back. I also love the attention the N* gets at car shows. Nobody gave the old 3800 a second glance but the N* draws ppl in like crazy. Over all I love this swap. Heres a bit of info on my swap.
I took mine to a small cruise in at Ricky Bobby's Rod shop and was surprised at the attention it got .. it was mostly all older muscle cars but it drew a decent amount of attention,,
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87GTseries 1 3800sc (7.597 @88.53 1.579 60ft) (series II swap in progress) 85GT Northstar/ 4t80e 86GT 3800 n/a---sold Northstar Rebuild
If I was doing it again today I would likely have kept my manual trans as I'm a bit disappointed with the low end torque at the wheels. In fact I have a hard time even spinning the tires, but get it over 3000 rpms and it is like lighning.
You probably just need a little higher stall speed on your converter. The Northstar gives up a little torque to the 4.9 below 2000 RPM. My stickshift car will accelerate uphill from 1000 RPM and 30 MPH in 5th gear without any problems.
quote
Originally posted by jb1:
I took mine to a small cruise in at Ricky Bobby's Rod shop and was surprised at the attention it got .. it was mostly all older muscle cars but it drew a decent amount of attention,,
The street rod crowd loved my car in Pensacola. Most of them, however, were more surprised that it had air conditioning than they were that it had a Cadillac V8.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 09-22-2014).]
OH yeah... My car weighs 2895 with spare tire & all accessories, with ~1/2 tank of gas and withOUT me.
I should be able to get it down to 2800 once I get nice lightweight wheels & tires, aluminum spare and drop the 30# flywheel/clutch combo for a 12# flywheel/clutch combo. Of course I'll get that 20# back and a little more when I switch to the F40.
The Getrag 282 is about 100# including the clutch, while the 4T80E is about 300# including the torque converter.
Edit some more: My limiter is set for 7000 RPM. I have the 3.50/2.19 gearset for the 282, so 2nd is a little shorter than the stock 2.05. Thanks to the higher rev limit, I can still hit 60 in 2nd. 3rd is good for 105 and I haven't topped out 4th... yet
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 09-23-2014).]
OH yeah... My car weighs 2895 with spare tire & all accessories, with ~1/2 tank of gas and withOUT me.
I should be able to get it down to 2800 once I get nice lightweight wheels & tires, aluminum spare and drop the 30# flywheel/clutch combo for a 12# flywheel/clutch combo. Of course I'll get that 20# back and a little more when I switch to the F40.
The Getrag 282 is about 100# including the clutch, while the 4T80E is about 300# including the torque converter.
Edit some more: My limiter is set for 7000 RPM. I have the 3.50/2.19 gearset for the 282, so 2nd is a little shorter than the stock 2.05. Thanks to the higher rev limit, I can still hit 60 in 2nd. 3rd is good for 105 and I haven't topped out 4th... yet
That weight is impressive... How much over a stock V6 is it? My 964 is #3070 and the LS1 vair is 2656.
Heh... Even with the 1.02 fourth vice the stock 0.94, 7k still gets me to 142 mph... I have some suspension work and maybe airflow management to do before I'll go that far.
Edit: I'm in the process of swapping to a 3.94 final drive from the stock 3.61. That'll drop the top of 4th down to about 130, and I'll get there faster.
And the speedometer only goes to 120 anyway...
Another tidbit... I've trapped 112 mph in the quarter, but still fighting wheel hop to get a good holeshot in.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 09-23-2014).]
Thanks for the fieroaddiction link. That's my car now. There is a build thread on PBJs N* turbo. I found it on a search in all forum and archives under PBJ northstar. PBJ had a non intercooled turbo that left the trunk intact. For some reason he deleted all the pictures.
[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 09-25-2014).]
Thanks for the fieroaddiction link. That's my car now. There is a build thread on PBJs N* turbo. I found it on a search in all forum and archives under PBJ northstar. PBJ had a non intercooled turbo that left the trunk intact. For some reason he deleted all the pictures.
That sucks. I'd be interested in a low boost turbo that left my trunk alone...
Is the N* rebulidable? there are a ton of wrecked caddys in the local yards. but none of them are wrecked badly so I assume the engines need work, I'd love a N* in my 86SE
Is the N* rebulidable? there are a ton of wrecked caddys in the local yards. but none of them are wrecked badly so I assume the engines need work, I'd love a N* in my 86SE
Make sure you are ready to spend a lot of $$$$ before you venture down the N* trail...
[This message has been edited by jediperk (edited 11-03-2014).]
Once you get rid of the N* issues, they are a beautifully designed motor with a lot of potential. I'm on my third N* build. Two auto trannies and one getrag.
Here's some aftermarket info and notes for the N* heads:
What's with the haters popping in on this thread? I'm not sure how some people can hate on another persons completely custom efforts.
My build thread is so old I don't think it's of any practical use especially since I have upgraded so many aspects of my original installation.
But since I have done some work on my motor (cams, springs, studs and port match). I can say with relative confidence that it's a labour of love. Either you love the sound (and northstar sounds more amazing than any other motor as far as I'm concerned) or you want good stock power. 250 to 275 hp at the wheels is more than enough for most people. Any more and it gets you into some real trouble. I have let several people drive my car and it was almost ditch time in half the cases. Me however; I definitely want more power. So back to my original point at the beginning of this paragraph; if you are looking to modify a motors internals, the northstar is probably not your motor unless you really want the northstar for some other reason. My $.02 but don't get me wrong it is my motor!
A few points that I will add though that many people have had trouble with: One, is if using an after market computer or tune that you should make an adjustment to your throttle plate to avoid stall issues. Two, make sure you adequately insulate or shield your exhaust from the engine block for the front bank that passes under or around the oil pan, or you will eventually cause an oil leak from the heat! Even if using the stock cross-over because there isn't the same engine compartment ventilation that there is in a Cadillac.
What's with the haters popping in on this thread? I'm not sure how some people can hate on another persons completely custom efforts.
But since I have done some work on my motor (cams, springs, studs and port match). I can say with relative confidence that it's a labour of love. Either you love the sound (and northstar sounds more amazing than any other motor as far as I'm concerned) or you want good stock power. 250 to 275 hp at the wheels is more than enough for most people. Any more and it gets you into some real trouble. I have let several people drive my car and it was almost ditch time in half the cases. Me however; I definitely want more power. So back to my original point at the beginning of this paragraph; if you are looking to modify a motors internals, the northstar is probably not your motor unless you really want the northstar for some other reason. My $.02 but don't get me wrong it is my motor!
A few points that I will add though that many people have had trouble with: One, is if using an after market computer or tune that you should make an adjustment to your throttle plate to avoid stall issues. Two, make sure you adequately insulate or shield your exhaust from the engine block for the front bank that passes under or around the oil pan, or you will eventually cause an oil leak from the heat! Even if using the stock cross-over because there isn't the same engine compartment ventilation that there is in a Cadillac.
.
I agree there seems to be some hate on the N*, most of which is based on faulty info (like the head gasket problems that affects a hand full at most...). The other thing that gives the N* a bad name is expectation management. Some people think, yeah I got hold of a used N* engine for cheap and what a great swap into my Fiero. Then they get knee deep into it and realize how truly hard/exotic (expensive) it really is. Then when they can't finish it they pull the "it's a bad engine to swap in" rationalization. That's why I always try to warn folks before they get started. You want low cost tried and true bang for the buck go do like just about everyone else and get a S/C 3800. As for the exhaust note, I agree totally the N* is the best. So, are you running a stand alone on your car then? If you have a build thread or could share your experiences and what you have done to yours in more detail it would be much appreciated. Eventually I will upgrade my heads and cams and go stand alone. At the moment though I am just looking forward to dialing in the new brakes and having the computer fixed to finally enable 1st gear. Although, I must say I will miss being able to take off from a standing start and not have the first shift happen until I'm doing 80mph...
[This message has been edited by jediperk (edited 11-02-2014).]
On a serious note, I love the northstar and the faces I get when people see under my bonnet will always give me a chuckle. Although I still want to make a trunk ontop of the turbochargers to use as a microwave on trips.
On a serious note, I love the northstar and the faces I get when people see under my bonnet will always give me a chuckle. Although I still want to make a trunk ontop of the turbochargers to use as a microwave on trips.
Chase. I would have not caught my mistake if not for you. Aluminum 48 valve V12 or Aluminum 32 valve V8. Actually the Ferrari 355 was a 40 valve aluminum V8.
I will hopefully be able to report back on how the Holley Dominator works with our engines soon. I had the commander 950 pro all setup and it seemed to be running well until a month or two before the car was road worthy. I'm not sure if I messed it up by connecting a newer 64bit hardware & 64 bit windows 7 laptop or if something else went wrong. It still ran but not well enough to drive it.
Is the N* rebulidable? there are a ton of wrecked caddys in the local yards. but none of them are wrecked badly so I assume the engines need work, I'd love a N* in my 86SE
Yes, they are rebuildable. The engine's only Achilles heel is the head bolt threads in the block. Failure of those threads, and consequently the head gasket seal, is extremely common.
Once the threads are repaired with steel inserts, the engine will last forever.
quote
Originally posted by IXSLR8: Note Valve Cover issue: Reglue your PVC backing plate (on inside of your cam cover) so you don't directly suck up engine oil.
I had not heard of this... I'll check it out next time I have the cam covers off.
quote
Originally posted by jediperk:
As for the exhaust note, I agree totally the N* is the best.
WOT from 5,000 - 7,000 RPM sounds like the maw of hell opens in my engine compartment.
I highly recommend it to any of you guys running ODB I. 
Well said...
