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need block help please by kmheine
Started on: 01-22-2014 07:27 AM
Replies: 19 (432 views)
Last post by: KurtAKX on 01-28-2014 03:22 PM
kmheine
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Report this Post01-22-2014 07:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for kmheineClick Here to Email kmheineSend a Private Message to kmheineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am trying to find out how to make a 2.5 "A" block work for my 87. Its the water pump that has me screwed. Everything I read says it works but don't say how any help would be great thanks.
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David Hambleton
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Report this Post01-22-2014 12:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for David HambletonClick Here to Email David HambletonSend a Private Message to David HambletonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
.

[This message has been edited by David Hambleton (edited 01-23-2014).]

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KurtAKX
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Report this Post01-23-2014 09:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The "experts" that told you it fits are wrong.

Every so often, somebody will come on here and claim the S10 block is stronger, and that it should be used in every 2.5 Fiero.
These people are idiots who have not done it before themselves.

As you've so keenly noted, there is no place to hang the water pump off the side of the block. S10s have FEAD brackets in this location and there is no hole.
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conan469
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Report this Post01-23-2014 01:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for conan469Click Here to visit conan469's HomePageClick Here to Email conan469Send a Private Message to conan469Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

The "experts" that told you it fits are wrong.

Every so often, somebody will come on here and claim the S10 block is stronger, and that it should be used in every 2.5 Fiero.
These people are idiots who have not done it before themselves.

As you've so keenly noted, there is no place to hang the water pump off the side of the block. S10s have FEAD brackets in this location and there is no hole.


FEAD? sorry not familiar with that.
didn't some of the 2.5s have a plate that bolted over the FWD water pump mount hole
and the belt tensioner plugged the RWD water pump hole.
or am i way off base?

I have read that the vin "a" or "e" blocks were stronger, i had read that they were cast a little thicker and the cranks were heavier.
they did have to work harder in the trucks.
but i don't think (couldn't find this out ever) they were drilled on the side for the crank sensor needed for 87/88.

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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post01-23-2014 01:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There are a number of Different 2.5 Blocks. about 10 years ago, I had my first fiero & it needed an engine, I got one from the u pull from a grand am, then a Camaro, then s-10, had them" in a line" with the original Fiero engine,. Different Mount "mounting pad"s, different water pump, 1 in front, 1 on the side. WHY GM couldn't have cast 1 Block with ALL the mounts& a "universal Bell housing pattern" is beyond me. (" designing, tooling &Casting" 5 different blocks for a 2.5 seems like a major waste of $$. ) Getting a replacement BLOCK can be a pain. Take a lot of PICTURES of your old block before buying a replacement.
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Gall757
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Report this Post01-23-2014 01:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This list has been around for a while, and I have read no complaints about it, but note that the comment by 'Ray' is not verified by the author.

http://www.fierosails.com/Engine.html

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 01-23-2014).]

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carbon
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Report this Post01-23-2014 01:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

There are a number of Different 2.5 Blocks. about 10 years ago, I had my first fiero & it needed an engine, I got one from the u pull from a grand am, then a Camaro, then s-10, had them" in a line" with the original Fiero engine,. Different Mount "mounting pad"s, different water pump, 1 in front, 1 on the side. WHY GM couldn't have cast 1 Block with ALL the mounts& a "universal Bell housing pattern" is beyond me. (" designing, tooling &Casting" 5 different blocks for a 2.5 seems like a major waste of $$. ) Getting a replacement BLOCK can be a pain. Take a lot of PICTURES of your old block before buying a replacement.


You been drinking?

As Kurt said, this conversation comes up over and over and over again... and then new people think the old people are just being closed minded... sigh. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

The first couple I found...
2.5L s10 block A isuzu 5speed trans? - 2003
S10 Iron Duke - 2005
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kmheine
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Report this Post01-23-2014 03:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kmheineClick Here to Email kmheineSend a Private Message to kmheineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
thanks for the post. I am not sure why its on here twice? So from the way this all sounds it seems that no one has figured out how to make it work. I have some time for it so I am going to look at making a mod off the cover plate or just go with electric.
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KurtAKX
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Report this Post01-23-2014 05:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by conan469:


FEAD? sorry not familiar with that.
didn't some of the 2.5s have a plate that bolted over the FWD water pump mount hole
and the belt tensioner plugged the RWD water pump hole.
or am i way off base?

I have read that the vin "a" or "e" blocks were stronger, i had read that they were cast a little thicker and the cranks were heavier.
they did have to work harder in the trucks.
but i don't think (couldn't find this out ever) they were drilled on the side for the crank sensor needed for 87/88.


FEAD is industry term for "Front Engine Accessory Drive"

On the S10 the "would-be" water pump area is instead bosses for either an idler pulley (or the Power steering pump, if equipped)
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KurtAKX
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Report this Post01-23-2014 05:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

KurtAKX

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Also, before you go to the effort of "making the S10 block work" you should really look at the main webs and overall block thickness as compared to a Fiero VIN R block.

Seriously, take the oil pans off of both, pull the cranks out of both, and tell me if you see anything different enough to make it worth the effort.
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kmheine
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Report this Post01-23-2014 07:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kmheineClick Here to Email kmheineSend a Private Message to kmheineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
OK so I jumped over to some s10 forums and all information leads to yes the E and A blocks were cast thicker but I will measure them when I pull mine out. Not today though 8 degrees is cold.
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carbon
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Report this Post01-24-2014 08:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by kmheine:

OK so I jumped over to some s10 forums and all information leads to yes the E and A blocks were cast thicker but I will measure them when I pull mine out. Not today though 8 degrees is cold.


Just a hint... it's already been done and no appreciable difference was found.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post01-24-2014 09:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a complete 88 duke engine with about 70k and a freshly redone top end. If you would be interested in purchasing the engine (trans is also available) contact me via PM.
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KurtAKX
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Report this Post01-24-2014 11:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by kmheine:

I am trying to find out how to make a 2.5 "A" block work for my 87. Its the water pump that has me screwed. Everything I read says it works but don't say how any help would be great thanks.


It's not just the water pump that has you screwed, there's also no place to mount the crank position sensor for the coilpacks.

Did your 87 block fail?

[This message has been edited by KurtAKX (edited 01-24-2014).]

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kmheine
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Report this Post01-24-2014 02:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kmheineClick Here to Email kmheineSend a Private Message to kmheineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There is adapter that puts in in the same area as the old distributer went.

Yes it did rod sticking out of the side of the block.
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KurtAKX
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Report this Post01-27-2014 08:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by kmheine:

There is adapter that puts in in the same area as the old distributer went.

Yes it did rod sticking out of the side of the block.


I'm curious about this adapter, where did you find it?

It seems like it would be tough trick since the distributor hole points directly into the block, not the crank.
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carbon
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Report this Post01-27-2014 09:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is the cam drive not a simple 2:1 ratio? Seems like it would be trivial to make an adapter driven by the cam in place of the crank reluctor. Especially since the duke has a gear driven cam.
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conan469
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Report this Post01-27-2014 01:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for conan469Click Here to visit conan469's HomePageClick Here to Email conan469Send a Private Message to conan469Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by carbon:

Is the cam drive not a simple 2:1 ratio? Seems like it would be trivial to make an adapter driven by the cam in place of the crank reluctor. Especially since the duke has a gear driven cam.


yes it would be possible, and has been done. IMO the signal wont be as accurate as reading it straight off the crank.
i have seen several different systems, for sbc and hondas, to convert them to dis but you would have to create a trigger wheel that the ecm understands.

[This message has been edited by conan469 (edited 01-27-2014).]

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carbon
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Report this Post01-27-2014 03:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah... I am not saying I could make one, just that for those with the resources, it wouldn't be too complicated to make a cam driven reluctor.
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KurtAKX
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Report this Post01-28-2014 03:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Anything can be done, I'm interested in the existence of this adapter which he says already exists.
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