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3800 Swap 308 GT KIT by Merlinhaggard
Started on: 10-26-2013 04:30 PM
Replies: 101 (2470 views)
Last post by: Merlinhaggard on 01-17-2014 10:09 AM
Merlinhaggard
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Report this Post10-26-2013 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Welp, I went and got me a 3800 SC and am diving into the deep side of the pool.

I have a 85 GT with a 308 Ferrari Kit on it. 4 speed manual.

I read and re-read Toddster's thread here and it helped more than I could say.

Today I pulled the cradle and motor per Toddsters thread and everything went very smoothly. I would say it took me a total of 2 hours to do the whole pull.

Now I have a 3800 SC on a stand, a Fiero on stands and the old V6 on a cradle built to Toddsters specs. I honestly dont know what to do next.

Heres my plan

Clean up the engine compartment
Put sound deadner in the engine compartment
Pull the old v6
Clean up the tranny ad cradle
Paint the tranny and cradle (por 15)
Mount the new 3800

Any and all advise would be appreciated until the end of time...

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Report this Post10-26-2013 06:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RCRClick Here to Email RCRSend a Private Message to RCREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks fun...

Bob

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Report this Post10-26-2013 07:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you are keeping the 4 speed manual then you can reuse the axles and tranny mounts then all you need is a good engine mount and dog bone to get it all mounted. Wiring is not too bad same as the exhaust. Dan

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Over 10 years of full Fiero engine swaps and harnesses building and still going.

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Report this Post10-26-2013 07:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Need a ready to bolt on flywheel for the swap? I have one if so for sale in the Mall....
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Merlinhaggard
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Report this Post10-26-2013 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I got a mount kit from a forum member, cant remember his name. Im also bidding on a flywheel on ebay. How much for your flywheel? Thanks guys..
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Report this Post10-26-2013 08:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Merlinhaggard:

I got a mount kit from a forum member, cant remember his name. Im also bidding on a flywheel on ebay. How much for your flywheel? Thanks guys..


$200 shipped on flywheel...Correct machined flywheel ready to bolt on. If u havent bought a clutch yet go with a SPEC 3 and stay away from Clutch Net. Mounts need to be poly mount and for a manual I would add a fourth mount plus a upper dogbone mount. Also with the 4 speed there is an issue with the cross over and it will need modified...
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Merlinhaggard
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Report this Post10-26-2013 08:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Does anyone think its worth trying to find a 5 speed? I dont want to have to do a lot of mods. Just dont like the idea of 3500 rpm's at 60 mph.
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Report this Post10-26-2013 09:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Merlinhaggard:

Does anyone think its worth trying to find a 5 speed? I dont want to have to do a lot of mods. Just dont like the idea of 3500 rpm's at 60 mph.


I myself would go to a 5 speed Getrag...Better MPG and not screaming at 80 MPH.....If u decide to go 5 speed and r looking for one let me know as I have a spaed I have been hanging on to..
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Merlinhaggard
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Report this Post10-26-2013 11:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would be interested, PM sent. How difficult would it be for me to switch?
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Merlinhaggard
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Report this Post10-26-2013 11:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have the original harness as well as the harness from the 2000 LeSaber the motor came from. I also have the ECM from the LeSaber. Should I try to make a harness or just buy a swap harness. The only one I see is $500...

BTW, I have the original motor, stock V6. It has 60k miles and runs perfectly. I would trade it or sell it..

1 more thing. Are there any simple mods I can do to the 3800? I know I can change the pulley size . What size can I safetly go to without having to change a bunch of other stuf out? I dont want to rebuild the motor;.
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Report this Post10-27-2013 12:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Merlinhaggard:

I have the original harness as well as the harness from the 2000 LeSaber the motor came from. I also have the ECM from the LeSaber. Should I try to make a harness or just buy a swap harness. The only one I see is $500...

BTW, I have the original motor, stock V6. It has 60k miles and runs perfectly. I would trade it or sell it..

1 more thing. Are there any simple mods I can do to the 3800? I know I can change the pulley size . What size can I safetly go to without having to change a bunch of other stuf out? I dont want to rebuild the motor;.


If ur good with wiring then make the harness up urself....I have paid for a plug/play harness on all the swaps I have done over the years. I am not good with wiring so I leave it up to someone who is that way when I hit the key there r no issues.

Swap to a 3.4 pulley with a 4 inch intake and a good 3 inch mandrel exhaust an that will cover the MODs needed to run that pulley. Replace the LIM gaskets along with the VC gaskets as there has been several revisions over the years on those gaskets.

Will be nothing different if u swap to the 5 speed over the 4 speed.
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Report this Post10-27-2013 08:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Making your own harness is not that hard just time consuming to make it properly or if you want to buy a completed plug and play harness there is a few on here besides my self that make them. Cost wise mine are $400 when I am supplied with the harness to work with and all my harnesses come with a matching programmed PCM at no extra cost.
Your engine being out of a Le Sabre should be a 3800 normally aspirated not super charged though so I would check to be sure. Dan
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Report this Post10-27-2013 11:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is a great 3800 build thread.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...130314-2-099989.html
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Merlinhaggard
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Report this Post10-27-2013 08:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Knee Deep now.

Got the Engine and tranny seperated from the cradel. Gonna clean up the cradle and decide on a tranny (4 or 5 speed)

Making progress though.

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Merlinhaggard
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Report this Post10-29-2013 11:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Should I go with the 4 speed I have or get a 5 speed? Please reply.
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Will
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Report this Post10-29-2013 01:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Merlinhaggard:

Does anyone think its worth trying to find a 5 speed? I dont want to have to do a lot of mods. Just dont like the idea of 3500 rpm's at 60 mph.


But it's more like a Ferrari that way
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Merlinhaggard
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Report this Post10-29-2013 07:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
a

[This message has been edited by Merlinhaggard (edited 11-01-2013).]

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Report this Post10-29-2013 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Merlinhaggard:

Cool Reply. Thanks.. I think Im about done with this thread. Not much response..


Too bad...I just saw it for the first time. How about some more pics...this looks like a great project! I'm doing it the other way around....engine (4.9L) first, then the body kit (Murcielago). I'm interested in the hurdles you face and how you approach them.
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Report this Post10-29-2013 08:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NetCamClick Here to visit NetCam's HomePageSend a Private Message to NetCamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Merlinhaggard:

Should I go with the 4 speed I have or get a 5 speed? Please reply.


I would say 5 speed all the way. A bit more shifting in the city, but if you're going to be doing any highway driving at all, you're going to save a ton in gas, wear and tear and vibration. 5 speed has reasonable RPM at highway speeds, mine sits around 2300.
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Report this Post10-30-2013 07:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Being a kit car I would go with the F40 six speed if it was me.
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Report this Post10-30-2013 07:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GrantmanClick Here to Email GrantmanSend a Private Message to GrantmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I agree with Flyer go all in with the F40. Then no woulda shoulda coulda.....
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Report this Post10-30-2013 10:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Where might I find an F40 and how much work does it take to get it together? Thanks guys.
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Report this Post10-30-2013 10:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Merlinhaggard:

I dont want to have to do a lot of mods.


If this is still true, the F40 isn't for you.
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Report this Post10-30-2013 11:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Merlinhaggard:
I think Im about done with this thread. Not much response..


I'd hazard to guess that people are tired of answering the same questions over and over again. You have to do some leg work for yourself by clicking the "SEARCH" button at the top of the page and entering key words like "5 speed swap", or "4 to 5 speed swap", or "F40 swap" and you'll see the same questions have been answered many times.

The parts you need for the 4 to 5 speed conversion aren't hard to find either at the junk yard or in "The Mall" or at any of the new parts suppliers right here on PFF (Rodney Dickman, The Fiero Store, etc). You'll need cables, transmission mounts, shifter mechanism, clutch slave cylinder, and throw out bearing. Then you'll have to rewire the back-up lights switch from the shifter mechanism to the transmission. All the parts are bolt-on, and depending on your level of expertise and tools, could take several hours to several days. The F40 six speed swap is more expensive, time consuming, and complicated due to the number of custom parts you need (flywheel, cables, mounts, shifter mechanism etc).

Which one to choose is entirely a personal choice with some of the more obvious pros and cons already listed by previous posters. Ultimately your choice should also consider the condition and mileage on whatever transmissions are available in your area.

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Report this Post10-30-2013 11:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That makes total sense. I do a lot of browsing and searching and have found a ton of good information. I just thought I could start a thread and walk through the build like others have. I think you are right though, I will adjust my thinking..
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Report this Post10-30-2013 02:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Merlinhaggard:
I just thought I could start a thread and walk through the build like others have.


Everyone loves a good thread with lots of photos. To gauge the level of interest in your own thread, don't rely on number of replies as much as the number of times the thread has been viewed. (And did I mention photos are really important.?)

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Report this Post10-30-2013 08:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks Bloozberry. I actually just got the cradle cleaned up and will be painting it this weekend. I will post lots of pics. I think Ive decided to stick with the 4 speed tranny for now. If I get it all together well, I might look at an F40 in the future. So... Ill be putting it all together shortly and will load down the server with pics.. Again, thanks to all!!!
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Report this Post10-30-2013 08:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Merlinhaggard:

Thanks Bloozberry. I actually just got the cradle cleaned up and will be painting it this weekend. I will post lots of pics. I think Ive decided to stick with the 4 speed tranny for now. If I get it all together well, I might look at an F40 in the future. So... Ill be putting it all together shortly and will load down the server with pics.. Again, thanks to all!!!


Keep the pics coming as everyone likes pictures...Take the time to clean up and make the install clean....
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Report this Post10-31-2013 10:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I cleaned the cradle today. I planned on painting it with POR 15 which I always use for chassis, but this thing is really clean. Ill still paint it though, get it looking new. Some pics below.. You can see below where 1/2 of the cradle is milky looking. Thats where I treated it with acid, prepping for the paint. So, Old motor, new motor, engine bay, etc...

















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Report this Post10-31-2013 10:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Merlinhaggard

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Member since Aug 2013
BTW, the old motor has 60k miles on it and runs perfectly. Its free to whoever wants to come get it.. Im keeping the tranny..
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Report this Post10-31-2013 11:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
To make things easier remove the suspension so u have nothing but bare cradle. Makes fitting and installing the cradle much easier when the time comes. Are your mounts poly mounts and are u going to use a low mount for the alt? Install soild cradle mounts whikd cradle is out..

Might be interested in that motor if it stays around for to long....

[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 10-31-2013).]

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Report this Post11-01-2013 06:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Really? I didnt want to have to readjust camber when I put it back in. I guess if I keep the rear tie rods intact, I can always put them back the same. I know above you said to do it clean, I guess that means ball joints etc.. Ill order up the parts..
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Report this Post11-01-2013 07:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Heres the dogbone mount I got...

Dogbone

[This message has been edited by Merlinhaggard (edited 11-01-2013).]

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Report this Post11-01-2013 07:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Merlinhaggard:

I didnt want to have to readjust camber when I put it back in.


Too late... you already eliminated the camber setting when you unbolts the struts from the knuckles.

Urethane or aluminum cradle bushings are a must.

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Report this Post11-01-2013 08:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I got urethane bushings for front and back. Ive been searching threads on how to get the front out. Im sure that will be fun. Was thinking of trying to cut through the medal with a sawza but looks like burning the rubber off is the best. Im sure it wont take too long. We will see..

Thanks for the info on camber. I guess I can take it all apart being theirs no reason not to..
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Report this Post11-01-2013 02:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There's no reason not to replace everything.

Use a torch on the OUTSIDE of the metal sleeve. This breaks the bond between the rubber and the sleeve and can push the rubber right out of the sleeve without melting it at all, if you're lucky.
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Report this Post11-01-2013 06:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Merlinhaggard:

Heres the dogbone mount I got...

Dogbone



That is just a stock GP dogbone. U need to decide if u r gonna low mount the Alt or leave in stock location. If low mount decide how u r gonna do that. There are many threads on ways to low mount the Alt.
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Merlinhaggard
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Report this Post11-01-2013 07:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just fighred I would have to remount the alt so it would clear the deck lid. I also thought I would have to have a dogbone mount.
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Report this Post11-02-2013 03:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Cradle cleaned up and tranny seperated.









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Report this Post11-02-2013 04:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looking good....Little Grease Lightning and pressure washer with clean that trans up. Then a few coats of silver rattle can and it will look good.
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