Hey everybody! I've been planning this for a long time but just now getting started. I really don't have a clue what I am doing. However, I believe that with some dedication and the help of this great thing known as the internet, I will complete it. I'm well aware that I am not knowledgeable or experienced at any of this. Normally I would be embarrassed to ask stupid questions or let people see the stupid mistakes I've made. However, I've decided to forego any pride I may have in order to fully use you guys to my advantage.

Any words of advice, questions, etc. is not only welcome but expected.

Here's my gold 87 GT in all it's glory.

It's nothing pretty and I don't really care at the moment.

I picked up an 88 cradle from RUNDLC down in Sacramento.


Then I bought a 70k mile L36 from a 2000 or 2001 Impala.


When I started looking it over, I noticed I had a strange front exhaust manifold and an A.I.R. system.

See here.

I started to tear into it head first.




Then I did the first thing I regret, I pulled the heads off for no good reason.


Since they are off, I'm going to at least get the ports and casting marks cleaned up a little bit. I'm taking them into a reputable head shop in the morning. When they get back I will put the new valve springs, seals, retainers, keepers, etc. together and paint the heads. I dropped off my oil pump cover and crank sprocket with Fieroking to get worked over for the double roller timing chain. When that gets back I will put in my ST1 cam.

Tonight I cleaned up the decks on the block really well and made my second stupid mistake. I didn't cover up the cylinders, oil galleys, water jackets, or anything while I was scraping the old head gasket off and I'm sure I got the composite residue stuff in everything.

So my first stupid question: How can I make sure that the head gasket residue that I got everywhere won't hurt anything? I don't think I got anything in the lifter valley. I think I can blow everything out of the cylinders and hopefully not have to worry about getting anything to the rings. I will also chase the threads for the head bolts. But what about the oil galleys and water jackets?

Thanks,

Chance

Hey nice choice on the motor, since it's on a stand you should be able to clean things out. When I bought my Northstar back from a friend there was a bunch of crap in it from grinding without the valve covers on. Once it was apart I tipped it upside down and emptied a few cans of brake cleaner on the heads and it came clean. You have a little less than a year to get it finished for the Fest so get to it

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'84 2m4 Northstar 5 speed
'84 3800SCII sold
'86 GT-'92 3.4 TDC 5 speed(sold)

Let us know if you need any help, I've learned many lessons the hard way and can at least give pointers.

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Build thread for my 88 + 3800NA swap

quote Originally posted by neverendingproject: Hey nice choice on the motor, since it's on a stand you should be able to clean things out. When I bought my Northstar back from a friend there was a bunch of crap in it from grinding without the valve covers on. Once it was apart I tipped it upside down and emptied a few cans of brake cleaner on the heads and it came clean. You have a little less than a year to get it finished for the Fest so get to it

Do you think I could pump oil through the oil galleys some how? I plan on having it done and running over the winter so I should definitely have it at the fest next year.

quote Originally posted by NoMoreRicers: Do you think I could pump oil through the oil galleys some how? I plan on having it done and running over the winter so I should definitely have it at the fest next year.

Doesn't it feed the heads through the pushrods? That is how they did it in the dark ages right

You should be ok, if you want to flush the cooling system I would wait till it's back together and flush the motor with a hose.

quote Originally posted by neverendingproject: Doesn't it feed the heads through the pushrods? That is how they did it in the dark ages right You should be ok, if you want to flush the cooling system I would wait till it's back together and flush the motor with a hose.

I didn't really look, but I guessed the two holes above the lower middle head bolt holes were for oil.



By the way, how does that block deck look? Good enough to seal a head gasket?

What did you use to clean it?

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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.17@132.6

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: What did you use to clean it?

Basically a scotch bright and brakleen. It looks like there are scratches in the picture but they go away when you wipe your finger over them.

Just use assembly lube, and pack the oil pump with vasoline.

Leave the spark plugs out, and jump the starter terminal to spin it. You would be amazed at how much oil the pump moves on the 3800. Do you have the timing cover off yet? see the SIZE of the oil pump?

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Build thread for my 88 + 3800NA swap

we have always tried to use some sort of flat edge (block sander/stone) to get some of the high spots off the head.

Get some nice GM headgaskets back on there and you should be ok. I usually run L36 gaskets.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: we have always tried to use some sort of flat edge (block sander/stone) to get some of the high spots off the head. Get some nice GM headgaskets back on there and you should be ok. I usually run L36 gaskets.

The head will be flycut and I couldn't stick .003 under my straight edge on the block anywhere.

I used a sharpening stone like this with some oil and the block cleaned up really nice. Had the heads fly cut to a very fine finish and used felpro composite gaskets, copper spray and arp head studs. I'm making quite a bit of power right now with good results (knock on wood). I have some Cometic MLS gaskets on standby but I don't think i'll ever need them.



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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.17@132.6

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 08-20-2013).]

I love how these swap threads just keep on coming and coming, another to add to my list.

I wouldn't worry about pulling the heads for no reason, I think it's actually a good idea if not on a tight budget, because these engines chip pistons so it's a hell of a lot easier to inspect it with the heads off, gives you a better idea of what you have.. It also gives you the opportunity to refresh the heads, maybe get new guides pressed if needed, freshen the valves and have it all machined, maybe even ported.... It's not really a big deal.

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86 Fiero GT 4spd - L67 swap: VS cam, GenV. Needs exhaust (ETA 9/13) Build Progress
98 GTP - Some mods

quote Originally posted by sco77: I love how these swap threads just keep on coming and coming, another to add to my list. I wouldn't worry about pulling the heads for no reason, I think it's actually a good idea if not on a tight budget, because these engines chip pistons so it's a hell of a lot easier to inspect it with the heads off, gives you a better idea of what you have.. It also gives you the opportunity to refresh the heads, maybe get new guides pressed if needed, freshen the valves and have it all machined, maybe even ported.... It's not really a big deal.

Thanks, I needed some reassurance

I just dropped the heads off at a very highly reviewed head shop. Getting a mild porting, valve job, new bronze guides, etc.

quote Originally posted by NoMoreRicers: I've got the ARP studs and will also be using the felpro gaskets with copper spray. How much do you torque the studs down into the block? I'm not going to run quite as much boost as you so hopefully mine will hold up as well as yours.

I believe I did 90 ft lb in 3 steps.

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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.17@132.6

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: I believe I did 90 ft lb in 3 steps.

I just looked and they recommend 80 ft lbs. Did you chase the threads and then go 30 - 60 - 90?

I envy you so much right now . This type of build along with an Ecotec 2.2+M62/ F23 swap has been on my wish list for years now.

Bah, I really need to get my business going soon- too much eye candy on the forums . Good luck with this man, I hope you can get it up and running asap with the least amount of problems!

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: I envy you so much right now . This type of build along with an Ecotec 2.2+M62/ F23 swap has been on my wish list for years now. Bah, I really need to get my business going soon- too much eye candy on the forums . Good luck with this man, I hope you can get it up and running asap with the least amount of problems!

Thanks! It's gonna need a lot of help from the forum though as all I've ever done was a half-assed rebuild of an old SBC 350 and put it in an S10 and I had help! I just recently moved and don't have the friends and family to ask for help like I used to.

But like I said, if I'm patient and don't do anything that I'm not sure of without reassurance from the pro's here, I should be fine

Thanks!

The engine stuff will be the easy part as long as you keep the stock bottom end. No sense in reinventing the wheel as its a waste to even think about swapping in different rods and pistons. Good luck. Looking forward to watching your build. I'll be doing the same swap myself. Just need to find me a donor GP.

[This message has been edited by Slow6 (edited 08-21-2013).]

i went 80ft lbs last time I did it.. Works fine. I think spec for alum head guys out there is around 65 or 70 as thats what I did my honda to.

Sweet talking aside.. only bad things come from removing heads from a motor... porting doesnt really help anyone... I proved it to be a fairly decent waste without some seriously crazy goals.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: i went 80ft lbs last time I did it.. Works fine. I think spec for alum head guys out there is around 65 or 70 as thats what I did my honda to. Sweet talking aside.. only bad things come from removing heads from a motor... porting doesnt really help anyone... I proved it to be a fairly decent waste without some seriously crazy goals.

Yeah I still kind of regret pulling the heads but live and learn. They're mainly just cleaning the bowls and the casting ridges a little bit.

I got my heads back today.

The rocker tips are pretty narrow. You should be ok.

Are you using the stock rockers or rollers?

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Build thread for my 88 + 3800NA swap

Stock rockers with the ST1 cam.

Is there anybody with the modified titanium retainers and reusable rocker bolts that is willing to pull a valve cover and a rocker to get a straight edge and a feeler guage in there? I'm probably going to put on the rockers tonight but I won't be able to tell what's it's like when the valves are open.

quote Originally posted by NoMoreRicers: Is there anybody with the modified titanium retainers and reusable rocker bolts that is willing to pull a valve cover and a rocker to get a straight edge and a feeler guage in there? I'm probably going to put on the rockers tonight but I won't be able to tell what's it's like when the valves are open.

Your head guy should asked how much lobe lift your cam had to determine valve lift to make sure there was no coil bind on the springs the spring height was right and that there was enough seal to retainer clearance... An st1 cam has .512 valve lift, i know guys running an s1x cam from intense with .514/.526 valve lift on modded retainers and viton valve stem seals with no clearance issues

[This message has been edited by black88fiero (edited 09-06-2013).]

quote Originally posted by black88fiero: Your head guy should asked how much lobe lift your cam had to determine valve lift to make sure there was no coil bind on the springs the spring height was right and that there was enough seal to retainer clearance... An st1 cam has .512 valve lift, i know guys running an s1x cam from intense with .514/.526 valve lift on modded retainers and viton valve stem seals with no clearance issues

Maybe I didn't word that very good. I have .600 lift available. The head guy knew what lift my cam was. I'm worried that I don't have enough valve stem sticking out above the retainer.

Edit to add: The spring height is dead on per PAC and plenty or clearance between seal and retainer.

[This message has been edited by NoMoreRicers (edited 09-07-2013).]

did u change the keepers?

quote Originally posted by black88fiero: did u change the keepers?

Yes, new comp cams keepers.

your gonna just have to bolt up your heads and turn it over and check your geometry and clearances..

quote Originally posted by black88fiero: your gonna just have to bolt up your heads and turn it over and check your geometry and clearances..

Unfortunately, I think you're right. I was hoping to have some assurance beforehand. Oh well. The owner of the head shop wants to talk to Zoomer at ZZP about it, so I emailed Zoomer earlier this evening.

I have modded retainers but i used stock keepers and have no issue. Id think youll be ok as long as the keeper notch was in the same location as stock. That way the retainer location didnt move

Looks like you have the wrong keepers.

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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.17@132.6

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: Looks like you have the wrong keepers.

Oh no, these are the ones I've got. Read the one review. Too bad he left the review after I purchased them.

If Zoomer emails me back tomorrow, I will mention this to him.

ya id do one valve with the stock keepers and see how they look.. sounds like you will have an issue

D@mn! They've known about this for 8 years.



http://www.clubgp.com/newfo...ookieCheck=177644800

This post is from Zoomer himself.

It's disappointing that zzp would sell something like that and know it's going to be a problem. I'm sure they will make it right.

I've always just reused the stock ones.

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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.17@132.6