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1st timer 3800 Swap by Merlinhaggard
Started on: 08-18-2013 05:17 PM
Replies: 22 (886 views)
Last post by: qwikgta on 08-26-2013 01:20 PM
Merlinhaggard
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Report this Post08-18-2013 05:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Im brand new to the forum. Ive been a member of other forums and know this is where you go to get it right the first time. Ill appreciate any and all advise.

I know there are thousands of threads on this subject but Im getting very confused with everything out there.

I have an 85 GT and just picked up a 3800 II from a 2000 model Park Ave. I have the wiring harness and ECM. My car has a 4 speed manual. I dont know if I should keep the tranny of get something different due to the high rpm's in 4th.

This is about all I know. Im hoping to get some direction. I know there are issues with programming and wiring. Again, brand new, please help! Thanks guys..
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post08-18-2013 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What are your plans with the car? The stock MTs are weak along with their less than desirable gearing.

I make swap harnesses by the way - http://reddevilriver.com

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 08-18-2013).]

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MstangsBware
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Report this Post08-18-2013 06:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Need to decide if u wanna have a manual or auto Fiero. If u wanna keep it a manual then look into swapping the the F-23 and getting rid of the 4 speed. If u want an auto then of course stick with the 65E trans that is mated to the 3800. From there you will need mounts, harness, PCM reprogram, ect for the swap which all can be found on here. Take your time with the swap and do it right the first time so it looks good an performs the same way. I have done many 3800 swaps so if u have any questions feel free to PM me.
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DimeMachine
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Report this Post08-19-2013 09:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DimeMachineSend a Private Message to DimeMachineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you plan to beat the tar out of it, keep the auto from the donor car. - IMO

------------------
84 NB, 3800SC, E-85, VS Cam, 3.0 Pulley, 4T65E-HD, HP Tuners, AEM Wideband, Regal GS Gauges, S-10 Brake Booster. 1/4 mile -12.05 at 111.7mph

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Report this Post08-19-2013 09:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Strength wise hard to beat the auto that comes with it but fun wise the manual is nice to drive. being a PA engine you will need a few things from a GTP or Regal engine like the SC belt tensioners and ign mod bracket and the oil filter adapter to fit in the Fiero.
If you decide to go manual you will also need a PCM programmed to match but even with auto it is still a good idea to have a matching programmed PCM. Dan

------------------


DARN Cars now open with
Over 30 years wiring experience between cars and trade as an avionics technician in both Canadian Air Force and civilian aviation.
Over 25 years experience building and modifying cars.
Over 10 years of full Fiero engine swaps and harnesses building and still going.

[This message has been edited by FIEROFLYER (edited 08-19-2013).]

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Merlinhaggard
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Report this Post08-19-2013 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The auto that came with the 3800 was trashed from a wreck. Not too bad but bad enough. I could buy another tranny. I like the idea of manual but know Ill probably get tired of it. I really want it to be as simple as possible..

If I get an auto I guess Ill have to replace the shifter and cables??
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EvilSqueezles
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Report this Post08-19-2013 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EvilSqueezlesClick Here to Email EvilSqueezlesSend a Private Message to EvilSqueezlesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes. You'll need the auto shifter assembly, shift select cable, and there's a few places that sell a cable mount that fixes the fwd to mid engine gear orientation so its not backwards. I'm not sure about the pedal assembly, but you have to change the safety switch I believe, or bypass it.

Even with those changes it may still be a simpler swap than some of the more modern manual swaps, and should be more durable as well. The 4t65e-HD trans is a pretty tough cookie, should never have strength issues unless you go monster tq and beat the piss out of it.

[This message has been edited by EvilSqueezles (edited 08-19-2013).]

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86 toy
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Report this Post08-19-2013 10:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86 toySend a Private Message to 86 toyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
welcome to the forum! you came to the right place for info. lots of knowledge and helpful people here..

If your looking for headers for your 3800 I build them! http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/066447.html

------------------
--Mark--
Yellow 88 GT 3400 5speed

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Report this Post08-20-2013 09:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierotreggClick Here to Email FierotreggSend a Private Message to FierotreggEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Welcome
Just did this swap in my 85GT, awesome motor and trans. All the guys above, phonedawgs, mustang and fieroflyer are invaluable when it comes to this swap, they helped me out more than I can say. Good luck with it!!
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Merlinhaggard
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Report this Post08-21-2013 08:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks a lot guys. Im gonna look for a 4t65e-HD and see what I get. I guess Ill just get the old motor out and get it off the cradle at least. I would like to sell it but it doesnt look like there are a lot of buyers out there. It is a great motor with 62k on it.
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MstangsBware
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Report this Post08-22-2013 01:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Merlinhaggard:

Thanks a lot guys. Im gonna look for a 4t65e-HD and see what I get. I guess Ill just get the old motor out and get it off the cradle at least. I would like to sell it but it doesnt look like there are a lot of buyers out there. It is a great motor with 62k on it.


U dont need to use a HD trans..U can use a non HD 65e and not have any issues. This will open up ur options on finding a trans. Alao I suggest picking up a spare cradle to build the swap on so car atleast stays drivable or a roller.
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Report this Post08-22-2013 03:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just throwing this out there, I have an auto trans that i was planning on scrapping just because I don't need it. It has 105,000 miles, 3400 hours on it (Says the computer in the car). Its from an 04' Grand Prix GTP Comp G with paddle shifters. I'd sell it for cheap if you wanted to ship it from 83705. I'd put it on a half pallet, and you could ship via FedEx freight.
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MstangsBware
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Report this Post08-22-2013 04:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mitchjl22:

Just throwing this out there, I have an auto trans that i was planning on scrapping just because I don't need it. It has 105,000 miles, 3400 hours on it (Says the computer in the car). Its from an 04' Grand Prix GTP Comp G with paddle shifters. I'd sell it for cheap if you wanted to ship it from 83705. I'd put it on a half pallet, and you could ship via FedEx freight.


Trans will not work without alot of work cause of the tap shift.. .I have the same trans just collecting dust in my shop..
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qwikgta
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Report this Post08-22-2013 01:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Welcome to the madness.

You are correct; this is the best place to go for this info.

I am 90% done with my 3800 swap, its my second Fiero engine swap, but I have helped with a few more and even did a few older platform swaps. Most were old Pontiac 400/455 motors (think pre-FI, ECM). I also just pulled/replaced an F40 attached to an LS3, so this is what I recommend.

First. Honestly ask yourself how do you plan to use the car, how often do you plan to drive it, how many miles a year. Do you want an auto or manual trans? Are you going to take it to the track or autocross with it? Then plan out a budget and a timeline. How much of the work are you going to do yourself, how much are you going to “ship out”?

Then double the budget and triple the timeline.

Second. Every, and I mean every question you have, has been asked and answered. Finding the answer is another question. This is what I recommend. Open “Google” and use this formula to find all the information you need.

site:fiero.nl

after the .nl you leave a space, then type the keyword you are looking for. Example

site:fiero.nl 3800, axle
site:fiero.nl 3800, harness
site:fiero.nl 3800, motor mounts

using this formula will speed things up.

Third. Pick a specific subject, use the formula above and then read, read, read and print. Get yourself a 3 ring binder, and some binder tabs. That way you can separate the sections. Create one for engine, harness, exhaust, axles. (you get the idea). This will be your build book, use it for notes, and write it all down. This has saved my bacon more that once. Also, download and save all the pictures that will help you. Save them into a folder on your desktop, and print them to put in the book.

Fourth. Don’t be afraid to ask for help. Even though all the questions have been asked, you may be seeing it from a different angle, and maybe the other questions didn’t lead to the best answer. Ask away, but be prepared for “trolls, laptop builders, idiots with bad information and then the truth”. Overall you will find that people will answer your question with the correct data, but you have to also bounce it off your own “gut”.

Finally, sometimes you just have to go for it. Do it your own way, design and build your own “thing”. Just because it's always been done a certain way, does not mean that it can be done better, cheaper or different.

But always remember that you’re doing this to have fun. Once it stops being fun I can guarantee that the project will stall and maybe even end up on the “for sale” board. You will encounter some tough spots, just work though them. Go back to your build-book often, and soon you will be amazed how much information you have gathered. Someday, you will be typing this to some young kid who just picked up his first Fiero.

Good luck, take a lot of pics and start a build thread.

Rob

------------------


88 Coupe, CJB T-TOP, LS376 and a GT clip
88 GT, SIII 3800NA/Auto swap underway
LS Build Thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/083204.html
LS on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAH9yjw6XR0
3800 build thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089035.html

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FIEROFLYER
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Report this Post08-22-2013 05:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Can't put it any clearer or more accurate then that good way of putting it qwikgta.
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mitchjl22
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Report this Post08-23-2013 02:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just throwing this out there, I have an auto trans that i was planning on scrapping just because I don't need it. It has 105,000 miles, 3400 hours on it (Says the computer in the car). Its from an 04' Grand Prix GTP Comp G with paddle shifters. I'd sell it for cheap if you wanted to ship it from 83705. I'd put it on a half pallet, and you could ship via FedEx freight.
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Merlinhaggard
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Report this Post08-24-2013 10:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Great info guys. Thanks. So far my plan is to decide on a trans. I would like a manual but it sounds like an auto would be easier. Any recommendations on a manual? Then I will start thinking about harness and programming. Am I going to have to change axles? Also, I guess Ill need a mount kit. Just trying to number things. 1. Tranny, 2. Harness, etc. Any help with numbering the order in which I should plan would help greatly.
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Report this Post08-25-2013 10:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you stay with a Fiero manual or go with the F23 then stock axles work but for the F40 you need different axles and a jack shaft.
Personally I love driving a 3800 Manual Fiero and always prefer it that way but I do not live in a large city with lots of traffic and neither of my Fieros are daily drivers.
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Merlinhaggard
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Report this Post08-25-2013 08:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ive looked all over and dont see how I will find a 5 speed Getrag. Im thinking Ill just keep my 4 speed. Any thoughts?

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Merlinhaggard
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Report this Post08-25-2013 10:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MerlinhaggardClick Here to Email MerlinhaggardSend a Private Message to MerlinhaggardEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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pontiackid86
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Report this Post08-25-2013 10:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Click Here to Email pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I for one had a 4 speed in my old 88 3400 turbo and beat the snot out of it from time to time... that 4 speed was about the only thing that dident give me issues
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pontiackid86
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Report this Post08-25-2013 10:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Click Here to Email pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

pontiackid86

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quote
Originally posted by Merlinhaggard:

Ive looked all over and dont see how I will find a 5 speed Getrag. Im thinking Ill just keep my 4 speed. Any thoughts?

There not had to find you just need to keep an eye out. I for one sent 2 of them to my builder I know one of them was bad though
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qwikgta
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Report this Post08-26-2013 01:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Merlinhaggard:

Ive looked all over and dont see how I will find a 5 speed Getrag. Im thinking Ill just keep my 4 speed. Any thoughts?


I hope it is not "bad form" to put my own thread here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/066767.html But I do have one.

Rob
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