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Starter discussion for Archie V8 kit installs by Jake_Dragon
Started on: 09-11-2011 10:44 AM
Replies: 26 (1607 views)
Last post by: FFIEROFRED on 11-13-2013 09:27 PM
Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post09-11-2011 10:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is the thread where I last replaced my starter. It lasted for over 2 years then it burned up. Lost its smoke.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...110502-2-098255.html

I can go with another Powermaster 9004 or upgrade to a better starter.
I also see there is a Powermaster 9100 that is rated higher and doesn't cost as much.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PWM-9100/

There is also the

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-66272/

The first thing I notice is the mounting block holes are different in these two starters.
 
quote
Powermaster PowerMax starters can be mounted in multiple orientations, featuring the new infini-clock mounting system


Then there are the starters that have the same mounting blocks I currently have.
Here is the powermaster 9000
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PWM-9000
and the powermaster 9004
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PWM-9004
and the powermaster 9400
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PWM-9400
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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post09-11-2011 01:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The powermaster 9004 I have been using worked great for the 2 years it was on the car. The wire to the motor is burnt, not in two but its burnt. I haven't pulled it apart but I bet the solenoid is bad and caused the issue. Either way I will have to replace the starter.

I just want to document what everyone is using so I can make an informed decision.
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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post09-12-2011 04:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
ProComp 2105
http://www.jegs.com/i/Proco...cs/746/2105/10002/-1

Ok I found one of these local. The guy that has it says it should work for me. But that said I want to see if anyone has any experience with this starter.
What interests me about this starter is it will rotate 360 degrees.

I wont have to pay for shipping and can bring it home tomorrow.



**This is not the normal starter configuration that Archie uses. If I get it I will be on my own
For the price and how much it rotates I may get it and see if it will work. My kit is a standard and has more room than the auto kits so I may get lucky.
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Report this Post09-12-2011 08:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EgorSend a Private Message to EgorEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm not familiar with that last one, but I can definitely say (from experience) that being able to rotate it 360* is a major plus!
I probably spent more time on getting that right with the oil filter remote adapter than any other one thing on my swap.
Egor.

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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post09-13-2011 04:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What I worry about is being able to rotate it enough without hitting the cradle. Its already necessary to cut down the block before you can even test fit the starter so once I get it and alter the block I cant return it. If I cant make it work I will be out the money.
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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post09-15-2011 06:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:

ProComp 2105
http://www.jegs.com/i/Proco...cs/746/2105/10002/-1

Ok I found one of these local. The guy that has it says it should work for me. But that said I want to see if anyone has any experience with this starter.
What interests me about this starter is it will rotate 360 degrees.

I wont have to pay for shipping and can bring it home tomorrow.



**This is not the normal starter configuration that Archie uses. If I get it I will be on my own
For the price and how much it rotates I may get it and see if it will work. My kit is a standard and has more room than the auto kits so I may get lucky.


I installed this starter a few minutes ago.
First thought is it fits as well as the Powermaster 9004 if not better but there are some issues. The starter sometimes spins up faster than it can engage the flywheel.
The mounting block had to be cut down and the holes had to be drilled out. But the starter I took off had similar issues so it could be the block supplied with the kit.

The starter spins the motor over just fine and faster than the old starter.



The oil relocation kit has much more space than the old one

The clearence is better as well but the power stud is in a bad spot.
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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post09-16-2011 08:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I love the way this starter fits the car. But the quality of the Procomp starter is not very good and you can see the difference compared to the first one I posted a picture of. The starter spins really fast but it starts spinning before it engages the flywheel.
I hoped that it was just because its new but it continues to be an issue.

The fit is so much better than the other starter, I may just spend the money and get a good quality starter. This one is mine, I modified it and voided the warranty but it was worth it to find out these starters fit.
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Report this Post09-16-2011 09:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My first Powermaster lasted about 1 month. Never again. Yes it was cheap. I wouldn't trust a Procomp for a long trip either. I forgot the brand I bought out of the top of my head but I remember paying about $300 for it. 7+ years no issues.
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Report this Post09-16-2011 09:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:

My first Powermaster lasted about 1 month. Never again. Yes it was cheap. I wouldn't trust a Procomp for a long trip either. I forgot the brand I bought out of the top of my head but I remember paying about $300 for it. 7+ years no issues.


I think any of these three would work just looking at the configuration and how much they will rotate.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-820323-M
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CVS-5323/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-66272/
The CVS starter looks like its the best of the three
The last one is a different configuration but it will rotate where I need it to.
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Report this Post09-17-2011 12:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for av8fieroClick Here to Email av8fieroSend a Private Message to av8fieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have the CVS starter on my v8 swap. 10+ years no issue. With this starter the clearance between the starter and the oil filter adaptor allowed me to run both oil lines off the adaptor instead of plugging one on the adaptor and running it off the oil pressure port on the side of the block as Archie normally does. I also used a ford style remote solenoid so I only have a hot lead to the starter when cranking [run 12v cable from the remote solenoid to the 12v post on the starter, jumper the starter mounted solenoid post to the 12v post on the starter, works great and no hot lead down to starter while driving]
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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post10-16-2011 10:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Starter is toast, the solenoid wont hold and after cranking several times it wont engage at all. Lesson learned I wont buy anything else from them.

Going to order the CSV to replace it and I'm seriously thinking about notching the frame so I don't have to cut down the mounting block.
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Report this Post10-16-2011 12:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is the one I mentioned above.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CSI-100P/

[This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 10-16-2011).]

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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post10-16-2011 01:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:

This is the one I mentioned above.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CSI-100P/




I'm trying to get more rotation out of the starter to give more room for the oil lines. If the CSI would rotate that much I would candider it.
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Report this Post10-16-2011 03:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NiterrorzSend a Private Message to NiterrorzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
just out of curosity can you mount a 4.9 starter to it? not the stock one but the one most people use for the 4.9 which would be a allente 4.5 gear reduction starter. it looks to have similar bolt hole to your block adapter plate.

http://www.autozone.com/aut...ifier=18274_48987_0_

[This message has been edited by Niterrorz (edited 10-16-2011).]

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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post10-16-2011 05:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If a stock 350 mini starter will bolt to it then yes

There are not a lot of choices. I just need something that I can get out of the way of the remote oil filter and that requires more rotation than the powermaster that I had. The ProComp 2105 fits great its just a junk starter, I should have read more about it but I was in a hurry and found one local so I leaped before I looked.

The CVR 5323 has the same configuration but it just looks like its built a lot better.
If that one doesn't work going to put the lot in the mall and buy a Mustang
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Report this Post10-16-2011 08:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for L67Click Here to Email L67Send a Private Message to L67Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Niterrorz:

just out of curosity can you mount a 4.9 starter to it? not the stock one but the one most people use for the 4.9 which would be a allente 4.5 gear reduction starter. it looks to have similar bolt hole to your block adapter plate.


No, it's completely different. It also probably won't clear the oil adapter.
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Report this Post10-30-2011 02:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CVS-5323/
The starter is installed and its night and day from the Procomp starter.
But what a pain in the ass to get shimmed, the mounting plate isn't centered in the same place as the last two and I had to shim it where the last two didn't require any shims.
But its in and I have accomplished my goal of this thread and perhaps given us another option when having to replace our starters.

The CVS starter is not only heaver its a little bigger but it fit and I will be able to use both ports of my oil adapter and not tap the block. I plan on using the port in the block for a oil pressure safety switch.

I will keep everyone updated.

PS.. My water pump went out, I put 30000 miles on it and the motor finally gave out. I have a new one that I ordered the same time as the starter and will be installing it this week.
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Report this Post02-28-2012 04:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TrintenSend a Private Message to TrintenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Jake,

Nice thread, real nice to see there are starters out there that allow the oil filter adapter to be used as intended! I don't think I have that option any longer with my transmission swap (and altering of the flywheel), but still good to see.

I'm in the market for a new starter as well now... has that more recent starter held up well for you? Any other complaints or issues?

(edit - just in case L67 is subscribed - yes I know the link to the starter he's using won't work on my car, just interested in his opinion to give me an idea of the company's build quality).

[This message has been edited by Trinten (edited 02-28-2012).]

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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post02-28-2012 05:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

Hey Jake,

Nice thread, real nice to see there are starters out there that allow the oil filter adapter to be used as intended! I don't think I have that option any longer with my transmission swap (and altering of the flywheel), but still good to see.

I'm in the market for a new starter as well now... has that more recent starter held up well for you? Any other complaints or issues?

(edit - just in case L67 is subscribed - yes I know the link to the starter he's using won't work on my car, just interested in his opinion to give me an idea of the company's build quality).



The starter has held up well, starts the car without any issues and no struggle. My engine is 10-1 compression and it spins it without any struggle at all, my previous starters both started out like that then slowed down after a few months. My engine is mounted in the lower holes on the mounts, if someone were to use the upper holes instead there would be even more room for the starter but it fits the car well and the wires are tucked up between the block and starter not on the bottom so I don't have to worry about it hitting the cradle when I'm working on the car.
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Report this Post04-07-2012 11:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just a follow up on the starter. As you know the way the Archie mounting block is use it needs the two inside holes on the starter block, well always measure twice and cut once. LOL
I cut both sides of the block down, it wont effect anything but it did make the mounting block smaller. Hey I saved weight, its all about saving weight. Ok I got in a hurry and marked the wrong side, but it turned out ok.
Anyway I did try to swap the block I already cut down and the blocks were close but not exactly the same so I ended up cutting my new starter block instead of using the one already cut down.
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Report this Post11-11-2013 05:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well time to replace the starter.

I have no issues with the starter, the reason this one failed is it was subject to water and sat without any heat cycles to dry it out.
There is a weep hole on the starter that when installed in the Fiero is up instead of down. So it filled up with water and sat till it rusted.
I will replace the starter with the same one but I will be sealing the weep hole and drill a new one in the bottom.
(same reason my water pump failed)

Going to order the new one today, well live and learn.
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Report this Post11-11-2013 05:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I never had a problem with an OEM replacement starter on mine. Worked fine with the 350 and 383 stroker. Ive never put much reliability in aftermarket performance stuff.
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Report this Post11-12-2013 07:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tesmith66Send a Private Message to tesmith66Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Multiple starter and water pump issues prompted me to get rid of the SBC and go with the DOHC.

That and the fact I got a BRAND NEW crate DOHC for $300!
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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post11-12-2013 03:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

I never had a problem with an OEM replacement starter on mine. Worked fine with the 350 and 383 stroker. Ive never put much reliability in aftermarket performance stuff.


What kind of transmission were you running? I don't know that there are any OEM starters that work with the standard transmissions and Archie V8 kits.

The starter has good reviews its just not setup to run upside down. I will plug the weep hole and drill a new one and it should be fine.
The same thing with the water pump.

Honestly I caused this by leaving the car out in the weather and being to aggressive with engine degreasers and the power washer.
I have taken steps to correct this and will invest in a cover if I have to leave the car out in the weather.
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Report this Post11-12-2013 06:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for animalSend a Private Message to animalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've used a Tilton starter with my V-8 Archie kit. It's been in there since 1994 and is now on it's second engine,
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Report this Post11-13-2013 11:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Automatic....
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Report this Post11-13-2013 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FFIEROFREDClick Here to Email FFIEROFREDSend a Private Message to FFIEROFREDEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
On my archie auto kit ( with a 440T4, 4T60, and a 4T60-E) I used a tildon starter first. it lasted for years. Rusted when it was off the car. I have always got the same type of starter, just non a tildon, and used them with the modifided tildon block. Non of them were ever as good as the tildon.
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