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3500 swap - take 2 by hookdonspeed
Started on: 08-09-2011 09:36 AM
Replies: 178 (6050 views)
Last post by: ericjon262 on 12-15-2013 09:13 PM
hookdonspeed
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Report this Post08-24-2011 05:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
hopefully i get everything hooked up and the deck lid closed up nice and tight befroe we get hit w/ this f'ing hurricane.,... I MEAN WTF, earthquake, now a hurricane !?
*facepalm* i hate nature.
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Report this Post08-24-2011 08:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'll take the hurricane! send it my way! (I sell windows)
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hookdonspeed
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Report this Post08-24-2011 08:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
LOL!! too funny..

got a bit of the harness re-ran, fuel line, and some of the hoses hooked up tonight
(ignore the birdnest look, i havent tucked them away yet)
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hookdonspeed
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Report this Post09-03-2011 07:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
harness is done beinng re-wired, now, pretty sure i got everything connected right :P just need to run the coil power/grounds, and i should be GTG for a start test, got the battery on the charger for the night (used it to run a power inverter while we had no power after the hurican, was down to 7v, but kept my alarm clock running lol)
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Report this Post09-03-2011 08:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Let's hear it RUN!!!
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hookdonspeed
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Report this Post09-04-2011 04:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

Let's hear it RUN!!!


ok. since u asked nicely. started up 2nd try (first try the battery told me no....)

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Report this Post09-04-2011 04:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

hookdonspeed

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i got a little bit of "cleaning up" to do in the engine bay, but, as for now, it should be driveable as soon as i bleed out the clutch line, and change the rear brakes... (and get exhaust, but it may go for a trip down the road before that happens )
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Report this Post09-04-2011 10:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yay! Now we're about on par with each other again. Did you fabricate an upper motor mount yet? Other then my clutch, the motor mount is the only thing really keeping me from driving my car.
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Report this Post09-04-2011 10:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
HELL YEAH! about time! sounds like it's idling a little high, still on a base tune?
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hookdonspeed
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Report this Post09-05-2011 07:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by KaijuSenso:

Yay! Now we're about on par with each other again. Did you fabricate an upper motor mount yet? Other then my clutch, the motor mount is the only thing really keeping me from driving my car.


no, i ordered an egr delete plate from WOT, but my stupidity didnt check the pp address, well it went to my old house, so fml... orering another tomorrow, then i was goinng to put the mount on that side of th head somehow im thinking...
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

HELL YEAH! about time! sounds like it's idling a little high, still on a base tune?


its on the tune for the 98 3400, ima do some logs today to see what its doing,
so, how did you guys do your throttle cables? :P
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Report this Post09-06-2011 09:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for neophile_17Send a Private Message to neophile_17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
On the throttle cable I took a square file and opened up the hole in the 3400 bracket to ~1/2" square. I checked it with a 1/2" drive extension each time I thought it was good. You also need to relocate the loop from passenger to drivers side. It was easier than I thought. It's been working great for a couple weeks now.

~sam
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quote
Originally posted by neophile_17:

On the throttle cable I took a square file and opened up the hole in the 3400 bracket to ~1/2" square. I checked it with a 1/2" drive extension each time I thought it was good. You also need to relocate the loop from passenger to drivers side. It was easier than I thought. It's been working great for a couple weeks now.

~sam


the loop? you have a pic of what your referring to? cant seem to picture it
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Report this Post09-06-2011 11:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for neophile_17Send a Private Message to neophile_17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't have a picture but the cable section in the engine bay is much loner than the distance between where it pokes through the firewall and the throttle. This excess makes a sideways "U" or what I called the loop where the bottom of the U used to face the passenger side. Because the 2.8L throttle pulls towards the passenger side and the 3400, and I assume 3500, pulls toward the drivers side you need to flip the U around so it's the other way. I hope that made sense. Also I put a 10-32 screw with a nylon insert lock nut through the throttle mechanism because there's no stud for the cable like the 2.8L had. I'll try to get a picture tonight but just a warning, I only have a camera phone.

~sam
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Report this Post09-06-2011 05:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For now I just have the stock GT cable looped around and slid into the stock 3400 bracket (which looks like it should be filed down to slide the cable all the way in). Then just looped it around the throttle and it sits in there nicely. This of course is only to run the engine and I wouldn't dare drive the car like this. I'll be looking to see if it can reach full throttle and back to zero, then bolting it in like neophile is referring too. Sounds like both of us are going about it the same way.
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hookdonspeed
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Report this Post09-11-2011 08:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i know im on a base tune, but im kinda wondering, my idle is up at around 3k... seems a bit excessive even for the 3400 tune :/ any ideas? no DTC's, maf / map look to be good readinngs..
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Report this Post09-12-2011 09:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for neophile_17Send a Private Message to neophile_17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Glad to here it's running again. Are the IACs compatible? How about your air and coolant temp sensors? Check to make sure your throttle isn't wedged open a little (what's the TPS reading). Are the unused vacuum lines all capped off. No leaks in your vacuum lines/accessories. Good luck.

~sam
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Report this Post09-12-2011 09:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for neophile_17Send a Private Message to neophile_17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry for the double post but I finally got pictures of my throttle cable arrangement.

http://www.rustytearracing....e_cable/IMG00163.jpg
http://www.rustytearracing....e_cable/IMG00165.jpg

~sam
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hookdonspeed
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Report this Post09-12-2011 11:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by neophile_17:

Glad to here it's running again. Are the IACs compatible? How about your air and coolant temp sensors? Check to make sure your throttle isn't wedged open a little (what's the TPS reading). Are the unused vacuum lines all capped off. No leaks in your vacuum lines/accessories. Good luck.

~sam


CTS is the stock 3500 sensor, seems to be reading perfect, (and telling me i need to bleed out my coolant system still lol), the IAC's should be compatible, its off a like 97 venture van, looks like the same IAC was used for almost all the 3rd gen 60deg's and most of the 2nd, some of the 1st lol...

interchange :
Click to show

[This message has been edited by hookdonspeed (edited 09-17-2011).]

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Report this Post09-12-2011 04:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by neophile_17:

Sorry for the double post but I finally got pictures of my throttle cable arrangement.

http://www.rustytearracing....e_cable/IMG00163.jpg
http://www.rustytearracing....e_cable/IMG00165.jpg

~sam


This is exactly what I was planning to do with my throttle.

Do you have any hissing noises? For example I thought my hissing was just the intake not hooked up to the filter before the MAF sensor but it was actually the throttle body gasket upside down (must have happened when I changed throttle bodies) leaving a nice vacuum leak. Are you sure the CTS is compatible with the older PCM? I got a custom made one from Milzy Motorsports that was the older designed machined to fit into the stock location in the head. Or are the differences only in the plug?
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quote
Originally posted by KaijuSenso:


This is exactly what I was planning to do with my throttle.

Do you have any hissing noises? For example I thought my hissing was just the intake not hooked up to the filter before the MAF sensor but it was actually the throttle body gasket upside down (must have happened when I changed throttle bodies) leaving a nice vacuum leak. Are you sure the CTS is compatible with the older PCM? I got a custom made one from Milzy Motorsports that was the older designed machined to fit into the stock location in the head. Or are the differences only in the plug?


afaik the difference is just the plug (and the lack of the 3rd "switch" wire) im reading the temp w/ powertuners connected, and it seems to be pretty dead on, no "hissing" that i can tell, but then again, it doesnt have exhaust yet :X
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Report this Post09-13-2011 08:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for neophile_17Send a Private Message to neophile_17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What are your IAC counts from the tuning software? Hopefully it's called the same thing with OBDII, the module is the same...

~sam
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Report this Post09-13-2011 05:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
try n get that tonight, my uncle decided to take my door for a ride on the trailer when he left the other day
so till i get the new hinges in, opening and closing the door isnt an option
and i think when i fell outa the window yesterday i pulled a wire on the aldl out :/
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Report this Post09-14-2011 10:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for neophile_17Send a Private Message to neophile_17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ouch man,

You never seem to catch a break. Good luck with the hinge project.

~sam
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Report this Post09-14-2011 10:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by neophile_17:

Ouch man,

You never seem to catch a break. Good luck with the hinge project.

~sam


SERIOUSLY! lol... ill post pics of the door 2night, member here has the hinges on the way already,should be here soon i hope. *chin up*
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Report this Post09-17-2011 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
fixed the idle, the iac wire cameout :/

[This message has been edited by hookdonspeed (edited 09-17-2011).]

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Report this Post09-17-2011 06:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Check to make sure you have +5v going to the TPS on the gray wire. Backprobe the blue wire at the tps. You should have 0.7 volts at the TPS key on engine off. That should increase to 4.6 at WOT. Finally check for the voltage at the ECM connector (it must be plugged in, so backprobe that also with a pin past the seal)
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Report this Post09-17-2011 07:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

Check to make sure you have +5v going to the TPS on the gray wire. Backprobe the blue wire at the tps. You should have 0.7 volts at the TPS key on engine off. That should increase to 4.6 at WOT. Finally check for the voltage at the ECM connector (it must be plugged in, so backprobe that also with a pin past the seal)


i just fixed it... darths diagram was wrong :/


he has
66 dk blu Throttle Position Sensor signal connect to B of the TPS
33 gry Throttle Position Sensor 5 volt reference connect to C of the throttle position sensor
61 blk Throttle Position Sensor ground connect to A of the Throttle Position Sensor

it *SHOULD* be
66 dk blu Throttle Position Sensor signal connect to C of the TPS
33 gry Throttle Position Sensor 5 volt reference connect to A of the throttle position sensor
61 blk Throttle Position Sensor ground connect to B of the Throttle Position Sensor

i just looked at my circuit diagrams after i ohmed the sensor itself out and seen it was working, changed the wires to correct locations, now it works.

^^pic from 98venture


edit: i just looked at another diagram (01 impala) and it shows them the way darth list... but on the sensor itself it has the labels differently... and so does my pigtail (from a 98 transport van) ill snap pics of the sensor and connector tomorrow to show what im talking about.
just googled and found this http://easyautodiagnostics..../tps_test_gm_2.php#1 the pins are "labeled" there as they are on the sensor and pigtail i have.

and as i said before, here are the pics of the damage to my door, i got the hinges, just need to go get a doorskin, skitime is about 1.5hrs from me and said he has one, just need to find the time to go get it.. THE DOOR ISNT BENT, its just not fully closed in the pics, but you can see the nice bend on the hinge in the first pic..

Click to show

[This message has been edited by hookdonspeed (edited 09-17-2011).]

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Report this Post09-18-2011 03:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I seemed to have missed something, what was wrong with the TPS? I want to check mine now because I think I hooked it up like Darth said.
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I think the issue is only that Darth is referring to the pins on a 3800 style TPS connector and you are looking at a round TPS connector

The functions of the wires stay the same when you look at the colors. They plug into the PCM the same. But the pins on the round connector are in a different order than the 3800 flat connector

Round TPS connector


3800 TPS connector (Connector on the right)


2.8 TPS connector


The function of the wire - by color - never changes. Only the letter of the pins on the TPS connector itself

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 09-18-2011).]

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quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

I think the issue is only that Darth is referring to the pins on a 3800 style TPS connector and you are looking at a round TPS connector

The functions of the wires stay the same when you look at the colors. They plug into the PCM the same. But the pins on the round connector are in a different order than the 3800 flat connector
<snip>

The function of the wire - by color - never changes. Only the letter of the pins on the TPS connector itself



no, the wiring diagram for the 01 impala 3400 shows the pins the way he has them...
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/177...ed/tps%20wiring2.JPG
and asfor the color, im using a replacement pigtail from the dealer, all 3 wires are white, so at the connector itself, i could not tell what color was where

so, today i got a bit of general maintenance done.. torqued down the cradle bolts, installed rodneys clutch line repair kit (another great product from him),
*tried* to make my own egr block off plate, we wont get into the details of the outcome of that.... connected the throttle linkage (TY neophile_17, your way worked perfect it seems!)
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Ah

Seeing there was no 3500 diagram on Darth's site, I assumed (incorrectly) that you used the 3800 diagram for the TPS.

Dang.
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quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

Ah

Seeing there was no 3500 diagram on Darth's site, I assumed (incorrectly) that you used the 3800 diagram for the TPS.

Dang.


nopers, i used the 3400 :P figuring im running the 98 "style" ecu, 3500/3400 is basically the same, 3800 is a different beast, hrm wonder how much of my hair would be missing if i tried to do that? :P
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Report this Post09-19-2011 09:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for neophile_17Send a Private Message to neophile_17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm glad it worked for you. Sounds like everything is coming together. Is it almost time for a test drive?

~sam
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quote
Originally posted by neophile_17:

I'm glad it worked for you. Sounds like everything is coming together. Is it almost time for a test drive?

~sam


almost gota set the shift linkage, blead the clutch, and change the brakes, burp out the coolant system, then pissoff the neighbors! :P

will be babying it for that testdrive till i figureout something to do for the dogbone mount :/
anychance you can weld/fabracate?
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Report this Post09-19-2011 12:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for neophile_17Send a Private Message to neophile_17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fabricate yes. Weld ... in a pinch. What were you thinking for mounting points?

~sam
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Report this Post09-19-2011 12:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by neophile_17:

Fabricate yes. Weld ... in a pinch. What were you thinking for mounting points?

~sam


leftside of the head(near where the egr normally is), weldup a bracket there, run it to the firewall, weldup a bracket on the wall.

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KaijuSenso
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Report this Post09-19-2011 05:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Not sure if that's the best mounting point for the dog bone. That side of the motor is pretty much covered against torque movement because of the two Trans mounts correct? Where as the timing cover side of the motor just has that pivoting engine mount (I used stock, new Rodney Dickman mounts) hence why the dogbone was there in the first place. Using all Poly mounts I was getting some bucking when I pulled back into the driveway on my first test drive (no upper mount) but went away with the clutch in so it shouldn't be too bad to drive around, just don't beat on it (I know, there goes all the fun!) Either way I'm interested in seeing the way you do the upper mount and I'll throw my idea by you when I figure it out.
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hookdonspeed
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Report this Post09-19-2011 11:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by KaijuSenso:

Not sure if that's the best mounting point for the dog bone. That side of the motor is pretty much covered against torque movement because of the two Trans mounts correct? Where as the timing cover side of the motor just has that pivoting engine mount (I used stock, new Rodney Dickman mounts) hence why the dogbone was there in the first place. Using all Poly mounts I was getting some bucking when I pulled back into the driveway on my first test drive (no upper mount) but went away with the clutch in so it shouldn't be too bad to drive around, just don't beat on it (I know, there goes all the fun!) Either way I'm interested in seeing the way you do the upper mount and I'll throw my idea by you when I figure it out.


hrm, from the reasearch ive done, they say the power transfer point is where you should put the torque strut, and plus, my alternator is in the stock location, so putting it there is a nogo, my 2nd idea was to move the coil packs, and put a mount there somehow.
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Report this Post09-19-2011 11:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ya I see what you mean now. I just don't quite understand why the stock front mount has that pivot point. Joseph Upson posted this in my build thread and I think it relates to what we're discussing now.

 
quote
The block side mount pad is definately not the best place for an anti torque strut and I never felt the stock location was the best idea either. The transmission will be the source so the closer you get to it with the torque mount the better, otherwise you'll have a twisting motion underload, this is why it's still possible to separate the front tranny mount after a while. If the torque strut was connected to the upper tranny bellhousing bolts or the aft end of the cylinder head movement would be much better controlled because the torque strut would be much closer to the center of the opposing force absorbing and pushing against more of the load trying to pull the front tranny mount apart.

With a more powerful motor this will become more significant when using stock mounts.


Putting the dog bone right there where the Trans and Engine mate would be a lot easier then with our alternators being in the way. Would the trunk side fire wall be strong enough to hold though? Should a brace be made extending from the shock tower?

[This message has been edited by KaijuSenso (edited 09-19-2011).]

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hookdonspeed
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Report this Post09-20-2011 08:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by KaijuSenso:

Ya I see what you mean now. I just don't quite understand why the stock front mount has that pivot point. Joseph Upson posted this in my build thread and I think it relates to what we're discussing now.


Putting the dog bone right there where the Trans and Engine mate would be a lot easier then with our alternators being in the way. Would the trunk side fire wall be strong enough to hold though? Should a brace be made extending from the shock tower?



id assume it would be strong enough aslong as the contact point is large enough, and not just like a little 2" square or something..
might do the crossbar or something, have to look into it, wouldnt be a bad idea.
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