just looking to make my vehicle more competiative, and more fun to drive WITHOUT spending alot of bread.
"Lean and mean, for less green.."
Since weight reduction is a time honored, hotrodder and racing prerequisite....
(every 100 pounds is equivalent to ten horsepower, not sure how much, but more MPG is anticipated as well)
....my goal of a 2300 pound curb weight SHOULD be doable.
The test subject is an '86 gt, engine is a 2.8 with 20,000 miles with simple hi-po mods. hogged out TB, bigger injectors, ported heads,r.rockers, headers ...........Blah blah.
Heres some previous "before" shots.....
For those who have already seen these pix, my apologies for the rehash. Just giving a visual baseline for future comparisons.
Also, I am NOT an authority on weight reduction. This ongoing project is a learning curve of sorts since a LARGE amount of weight has to be removed, OR replaced with lightweight components.
But, an eye must be kept on retaining a decent level of style whilst shedding pounds. Already spent most of the summer on a "quick and simple" (yeah, right) replacement for my gutted interior.
Will be posting uber metric tons of photos (if I can find all of 'em). I mainly, started this thread because no one posts PICTURES of their weight reduced fiero!!! Maybe I'm not searching hard enough, but most posts are all words and no examples. IMO
Also, if you have photos...please post them here for others to see and provide inspiration.
Gut the interior, everything, even that, um, 'antique' stereo Lose the warm air intakes remove headlight assemblies remove spare tire and jack remove any AC equipment (compressor, condenser, underdash box, lines)
Shedding weight on a Fiero is NOT easy. The reason you don't see a lot of examples is because few people have dedicated track cars, which is the only thing you'd want to lose the weight on. No interior and AC for a gain of 20HP isn't worth it to most people.
Due to monthly payments to "uncle scam",and midland funding llc.... the benefits of moving to a cheaper apt. is moot.
Thus said, I had to cut corners and ditch the full aluminum decklids, plus wing concept.
Thanks to a previous member (sorry, dont remember who.....but I thankyou for the idea)I decided to gut the front,rear decklids to remove weight. before continuing, I should give a list of what is CURRENTLY removed/ and or replaced.
Headlights / headlight doors/motors related brackets/wires
(Bozo went through redlight, knocked front fascia off, only one light could pop up so I nixed 'em ) Pop up lights are like air brakes anyway.
removed spare tire/ jack, front spare fiberglass tub, front decklid prop rod, gutted front hood /pulled brackets/ hood hinges (replaced with lighter LOWES hinges)
A/C compressor/ brackets/ linesaccumalator, evaporator HVAC case /motors/ blower fan/ relay/ duct work/ heatercore will be replaced with aluminum version.
Cruise control servos, cables,wires
\Emergancy brake handle/ cables/ (system liked to drag, or lock up and not release when I had to go to work.)
Floor mats (heavy)/ inner door covers(heavy)/ armrests/ brackets underneath/ (replaced doorhandles with aluminum flat bar stock)
Map pocket in main dash
pulled old worn out carpet / insulation
Radio / radio speakers/ wire/ antenna Plans are to convert to ALL ipod system. (total target weight 10 onces) speaker covers will be deleted in front and rear.
Computer cover/ arm rest / shifter surround (all of it)/ radio surround/ (all of it, only kept the gauge pod. Which weighs a pound and some!)
Gutted skeleton, to make room for a USABLE ,lightweight storage compartment. Will create entire dash out of foam,vinyl, and aluminum this spring. Still havent replaced sun roof glass, and back window with polycarbonate yet.
Gutted rear decklid (underneath), stratigically removed "panels" from the area above the tail lights, and BEHIND tailights/ will remove steel louvers on both decklids and replace with aluminum flat bar stock. (already did the front, will post pics )
removed torque rod for deck lid (scary crap), brackets and bolts. (Still have to create new rear hinges.) They are REALLY heavy.
Removed engine hoist brackets , secondary dog bone strut bracket (the bar that hids behind the A/C bracket) PITA alert!
EGR /bracket (3 pounds!!!!!!)/egr line,
rear inner mud flaps (only drive the fiero in the dry only) strategic wheelwell trimming.
Front and rear suspension has already been replaced with LIGHTER RCC components. No stock pieces left. (front is adjustable coilover rear has anti bump steer kit/ tubular a arm.
removed front rear bumper nomenclature (15 pounds each) replaced with aluminum bar stock.
removed upper radiator support with aluminum brackets.
No cat, just glass pack and 5" dual megs. Hate to do it, but i need to make those out of aluminum or get something else
Was going to get a ducktail since no one makes a wing that looks EXACTLY like ours but with LESS weight. Not sure which ducktail to get yet, and since money is tight..... I gutted the underside of the wing to lose some pounds. Only got three pounds off.....heres a sneak peek.
During this process, the spoiler ultimalely got lowered, and positioned further back by three inchs.
Used some 1" aluminum bars to mount the hollowed out spoiler, and added aluminum sheet (1/6th gauge) to fill in the holes.
I'll be watching this. I have done some weight shedding on my project as well. I would like to see how yours comes in when you weigh it. Couple items I can think of that you haven't mentioned.
- F/R crash bars are steel, could be replaced with Aluminum stock, or removed for track use. - Side mirrors are quite heavy, I plan to use F1 style carbon fiber mirrors - Your '86 will have a trunk fan, motor and ducts can be removed. - Front steering damper can be removed, I didn't even notice mine was gone! - Seats are another area there is extra weight. Got my Sparcos for $400 used - Don't know if you are a fan of notchies or not, but the tail section weighs less then the fastbacks. - I replaced my rubber pedal covers with grip tape.
One thing I have noticed is that it is slightly easyier to find ways to lose weight off the front end of the car, opposed to the rear. Keep your weight distribution in mind while you shed pounds. Not doing so could upset the handling. One easy way to balance out the f/r weight is to move the battery to the front.
[This message has been edited by Bridgetown (edited 11-26-2010).]
i heard the door beams are quite heavy. but i would keep them on for safty reasons. you could replace the glass with lexan. you could get a lightweight flywheel. should help save weight and also less spinning mass on the engine. that should gain alittle power. get a lightweight battery. edited*
[This message has been edited by joshh44 (edited 11-26-2010).]
rear inner mud flaps (only drive the fiero in the dry only) strategic wheelwell trimming.
I wouldn't do that. The lining on one of my rear wheelwells was ripped and left off by a previous owner - I found the pieces in the trunk. Result: that side has numerous small rust spots due to rock chips in the painted frame.
get rid of that cast iron 2.8. ecotec is alum block/head and more power. use it with a alum flywheel. the factory put a lot of work in to making it light. It would not be MY 1st pick for a engine, but if i was going to build a very light autocross car that would be the way to go. Your car sounds like it would be a fun car at a autocross.
Originally posted by sunofjustice: headlight doors front spare fiberglass tub. rear inner mud flaps
No expert but i would think that removing these items would actually hurt performance, not increase it. These items are already very light, and the weight shed by taking them off can’t be more than a few pounds, lets just say you shed 8lbs. I would think those freed up ponies that you’ll get by removing the 8lbs would be canceled out by the new openings created now causing additional drag….possibly loosing more HP than you created by shedding the weight. Just thinking out loud with my $.02 How about removing the glass and replacing with lexan? at least the door glass and all parts and pieces then just have the lexan fixed closed.
edit to say Lexan already suggested
[This message has been edited by DLCLK87GT (edited 11-26-2010).]
Already weighed the stock 86 gt tail lights when gutting the rear bodywork. (5pds per taillight assembly!)
Planning to mod them suckers when I find some individual lights that are frugal, light, and look good. LED s ARE very light, brighter, and use less energy. Still trying to get over the toy "light bright" look when I see late model cars with them. No offense.IMO
Already bought short shifter, I should look for a billet aluminum and graft it in. (If possible)
Oh, and I DID take out the change....2 pounds worth! (Use to keep alot of quarters for carwashing)
Originally posted by sunofjustice: Already bought short shifter, I should look for a billet aluminum and graft it in. (If possible)
FieroStore sells an aluminum short shifter. I have it in my car. Works ok, but it's pretty bulky. Not sure what the exact weight is on it though. And when I do my LS4/F40 swap, I'll be making a custom short shifter out of carbon fiber anyway, and using a newer style shifting mechanism instead of the bulky 80s one.
Nice photo! Already pulled BOTH "crash bars" (10pds each) and BOTH "waffle" energy absorbers (5 pounds each).
Side markers, most of em got broken off from idiots, and drunks hitting my ride. I give praise to God for still being able to drive her!
The steering dampner (3 pounds), I took off two weeks ago. Faster steering at LOW speed, alittle twitchy at HIGHER speeds.
Sorry, forgot to mention removal of trunk fan/ trunk tubes/ (threw away years ago dont know weight, anyone know?) Theres a bracket welded in that held the fan, its a PITA if you DONT have a garage with an electrical outlet. Got it out though, (3.5 ounces)
Seats, I'm gonna make some from scratch. Really, really want 6 pound seats (versus 38pds each). I'm really looking to get them under 12 pounds MAX. Materials will be aluminum bar stock (frame), two grades of foam (one memory foam), thought about using bungee cords like in a suspension seat. But, those might add too much weight, and they COULD cause body aches due to PRESSURE POINTS. (I'm not a spring chicken like I used to be.)
The prices for seats annoy me, (handling frees) you have to buy THEIR brackets to mount them (could work,maybe not.) I want to be able to monitor, weigh, and make any adjustments on the "fly" instead of taking what they give me.
The seat mounts will be perforated flat steel bars. Seat will be fixed where I want it (all the way back,slight incline) Dont really store anything behind seats, will make an aluminum rod linch pin to tilt the seat if need be.
Took out BOTH seat recliner mechanisms and added aluminum bracket to reinforce. Works great! I dont fumble to move the seat at all. Move it, set it back.
Was thinking of taking OFF stock gas pedal, and replace with aluminum after market pedal cover. Add some aluminum for backing, and add a mount to bolt it on. To bad the original clutch levers had BENDING problems.
Bridgetown, I feel you on that weight bias concern. Very concerned when I was removimg stuff, Most of the weight WAS from the front, or from the interior. Will eventually move battery to front, its just I use hood pin locks up front. Plus, battery cables arent that light either. Would be nice to place battery in interior. A $700. five pound battery MIGHT fit, but that idea is not feasible.
For less then $150 (including shipping, ect) you could swap in a pair of these plastic racing seats. I'm not sure the exact weight but it is quite significant over the stock seats. Give summit a call and they will toss them on a scale for you if you ask. Just toss on a set of cheap seat covers and your down 50+ lbs. Just a thought...
And of course, often the most significant loss is always with the driver. Shed a few pounds off yourself and the car loses also. Cost = just your hard work.
EDIT: Oh almost forgot. Try to focus on unsprung weight. Wheels and brakes mostly (since you already have tubular suspension). Unsprung weight is equal to more then 10hp per 100lbs. Check out gramlites, Motegi track lites, ect. Stick with a wheel size only large enough to clear the brakes. Light weight alluminum calipers also shave more then you might expect. Smaller diameter tires can shed weight and make the wheels sprin faster/easier. Just keep track of what change this makes to your overall final ratio. Don't want to lose too much top end...
[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 11-26-2010).]
Originally posted by Hockaday: fiberglass is heavy, its why its not used on high end cars as far as I know. It's all aluminum and CF.
CF is pretty heavy. And simply remolding exact copies of stock panels in CF won't really net you much weight loss. Other composites maybe, but certainly not aluminum and probably not CF. And the stock panels aren't fiberglass anyway.
Fiberglass & carbon fiber are NOT heavy - when done right. CF is THE thing to use on anything to save weight; what do you think Formula One cars are made of? The reason fiberglass aftermarket kit cars (& parts) are so heavy, is they are laid up with chopper guns & have to be made REALLY thick for strength. A hand-laid part is just as strong at < half the thickness, & very light. I'm thinking of making hoods & decklids in 'glass to save weight (& to sell). The front hood with my "Angel Vent" (& also a new version that you don't have to cut the sheetmetal), & the decklid with a hood scoop I'm working on as we speak. (or type ;-) But they won't be cheap, & shipping will be problematic at best (probably need to use Greyhound). Of course, replacing the PLASTIC panels with fiberglass will not really save weight. Plastic is about as light as you can get, UNLESS you make very thin "race only" 'glass or CF parts to replace them. EDIT: The stock hood, decklid, & roof pieces ARE SMC fiberglass. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane wrapped helically around an axis? Screwed.
[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 11-26-2010).]
leave the drivers side door beam in it. **** happens, make sure it happens to the door, not you. for the record, my 84 se sbc/4t60 fiero, on 15 inch gt wheels, big archie 4 core rad, bat in front, GA rear brakes, nothing removed is as follows; on race track 4 corner scales LF =608 RF=646 LR=871 RR=862 totals, F=1254,(42%) R=1733 (58%) car=2988 ! It hooks up!
Fiberglass & carbon fiber are NOT heavy - when done right. CF is THE thing to use on anything to save weight; what do you think Formula One cars are made of? The reason fiberglass aftermarket kit cars (& parts) are so heavy, is they are laid up with chopper guns & have to be made REALLY thick for strength. A hand-laid part is just as strong at < half the thickness, & very light. I'm thinking of making hoods & decklids in 'glass to save weight (& to sell). The front hood with my "Angel Vent" (& also a new version that you don't have to cut the sheetmetal), & the decklid with a hood scoop I'm working on as we speak. (or type ;-) But they won't be cheap, & shipping will be problematic at best (probably need to use Greyhound). Of course, replacing the PLASTIC panels with fiberglass will not really save weight. Plastic is about as light as you can get, UNLESS you make very thin "race only" 'glass or CF parts to replace them. EDIT: The stock hood, decklid, & roof pieces ARE SMC fiberglass. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane wrapped helically around an axis? Screwed.
I cannot agree more. Lately, I have been making more fiberglass parts than CF. The weight difference between them is not much and fiberglass is a lot easier to make. I cannot see replacing the plastic body panels making any real difference. The only two body panels that I would change would be the deck lid and hood. I would use a foam core composite. I would not remove anything from the door unless I replace the door all together. You can make a steel or aluminum door that would save weight and could be close in the crash protection.
I would also ditch the dash and heat exchanger box. All that you really need is the piece of metal to hold the instrument cluster.
I am also confused by you getting heavier wheels. I would focus on the unsprung weight first and then start looking around.
Originally posted by Tha Driver: Fiberglass & carbon fiber are NOT heavy - when done right. CF is THE thing to use on anything to save weight; what do you think Formula One cars are made of?
It's all relative. F1 car bodies are made from CF because it's relatively cheap, lighter than fiberglass or aluminum, and there's no kitty hair involved. Not because it is the lightest material available. Granted, with what they weigh, and given their aerodynamics and power, going any lighter than CF isn't really necessary. There are lighter materials out there, but they are cost prohibitve for most things.
If one really wanted to lose a lot of weight on the Fiero, the body isn't really the best place to look. The quickest way to lose 300 lbs on a Fiero is to get a custom built aluminum frame and cradle built. Replace as many cast iron or heavier steel parts with aluminum or composites as appropriate. Convert to coil-overs. Tubular A arms. Until you start worrying about aerodynamics, the body isn't a great place to look for improving performance.
It's all relative. F1 car bodies are made from CF because it's relatively cheap, lighter than fiberglass or aluminum, and there's no kitty hair involved. Not because it is the lightest material available. Granted, with what they weigh, and given their aerodynamics and power, going any lighter than CF isn't really necessary. There are lighter materials out there, but they are cost prohibitve for most things.
If one really wanted to lose a lot of weight on the Fiero, the body isn't really the best place to look. The quickest way to lose 300 lbs on a Fiero is to get a custom built aluminum frame and cradle built. Replace as many cast iron or heavier steel parts with aluminum or composites as appropriate. Convert to coil-overs. Tubular A arms. Until you start worrying about aerodynamics, the body isn't a great place to look for improving performance.
Hello yes what you said is mostly correct, you can still start with the body and improve areodynamics at the same time. Here we remove some sheet metal and the front clip our tilt clip weighs about the same as the stock hood alone while overall removing almost 100Lbs Thanks Norm
Originally posted by normsf: Hello yes what you said is mostly correct, you can still start with the body and improve areodynamics at the same time. Here we remove some sheet metal and the front clip our tilt clip weighs about the same as the stock hood alone while overall removing almost 100Lbs Thanks Norm
Sure, but that is not strictly body modification. You cut out a big portion of the chassis. And I'm not sure those sections of the front of the chassis are pieces I'd want removed.
Hello you havent seen too many other body conversions then and what bothers you about the frontal crash protection. There is no structual compromise as all that is cut away is underneath the headlight assemblies which hardly offers any protection even the spare tire is in the stock position which provides the bulk of energy absorbtion. The front bumper facia is removed, but that provides little if any protection while the metal reinforcement is left in place. Thanks Norm
Same car after repair and new front clip
[This message has been edited by normsf (edited 11-26-2010).]
