Originally posted by FieroG97J: And I would try a Star Trek type force field for the windows.
Old Metallurgist
No, no, no, no! That won't work...he'd have to install a 2,000-amp alternator to do that, and which would take all the engine power just to turn!
Speaking of alternator...the old Honda CRX ("HF" models) turned off the alternator when it wasn't needed to reduce drag on the engine. Although this was to improve gas mileage, it would also mean a little more of the power getting to the wheels. Then again, an older style ignition system like on out 2.8's might suffer too much from the voltage drop and be counter-productive.
For all the people who REALLY care about this topic, my sincere apologies for the wait. I've been kind of busy fixing, and repainting my moto bicycles, as well as racking up some MUCHO needed overtime at work. $$$$
With some capital to work with, I FINALLY get to make some progress on the fiero. After a SIGNIFICANT amount of net diving and forum lurking, I decided to use this for a lightweight "race-battery"........
I cant recall the EXACT model number for the braile version right now, but braile sells a virtually IDENTICAL battery that is manufactured from the same company that makes the Deka etx20l. ( East penn. )
Amazing little gem this is...... cranks right over just like the 40 pounder that replaced it.
Although there are caveats to be sure, this sucker is a keeper so far.
Will post next batch of goodies very soon........peace out.
Eventually, the battery will be mounted closer to the front wheels.
I'd REALLY like to place the dry-cell where the ecm is, ( with a battery box of course) and relocate the ecm by placing it perpendicularly in an armrest position.
This would kill two birds with one stone ( or maybe three ),
1. Several feet of 2 gauge batt. cable is HEAVY. With the battery situated CLOSER to the starter, alot LESS batt. cable is needed. ( Less weight...)
2. AGM batteries need to be used FREQUENTLY (daily driven), or the battery drains from parasitic power losses. ( Although I have seen a little SOLAR battery-charger at lowes.) I already have a battery shut-off knob, but having the battery at arms reach, makes disconnecting the battery ALOT easier.
3. Weight distribution, although its not as significant as moving the batt. to the very front of the car. since the battery now weighs only 15 lbs., this should'nt be too much of an issue. ( Maybe )
Eventually, I plan to add an air dam spoiler to the front fascia to help deter the highspeed lift that is inherent in the fieros "bottom-breather" radiator design. ( Due to Michigans ubiquitous, and notoriously STEEP entrance ramps for our local businesses.....I REFUSED to place a fiberglass air dam on a LOWERED fiero just to see it turned into shreded wheat.)
I'll probably mount the battery up front near the radiator, use a summit REMOTE battery disconnect kit (good safety feature), and emply a summit or powermaster 7 1/2 pound starter. $$$
I finally decided to take the plunge, and bought these............
With covers..............
rearview .................
Etc. etc................
This style may not suit everyones taste. But, I kind of like them.Especially when they weigh 12lbs each. This most certainly makes them very attractive to me. Just thought it would be interesting to show , and give more detail on the summit "poly race seats" since no one ever seems to do this.
The general consensis on these seats via googling , is polarizing. Some say they like them, others hate them, my verdict is they CAN be made comfortable.
Tilting the seat is a MUST, dont use just the covers they give you. ( Add some memory foam, light foam padding, or blocking material from JOANN'S craftworks store.)
The seats are quasi snug, but pleasent.....and there is even more elbow ROOM than before. My interior is getting exceptionally spacious. I LOVE it!!! With the aluminum dash mod, there should be even MORE room ergonomics wise.
I can EASILY reach behind the seats without having to move them. ( I dont really store anything behind the seats anyway, but you dont want to drop something important back there and NOT be able to retrieve it. (Keys, phone, money etc.)
Truely, a fun modification .......and VERY liberating.
[This message has been edited by sunofjustice (edited 06-11-2011).]
I already had a summit catalog, so I called them before hand to decide which seat was lighter...... The aluminum kirkey's, the NEWER summit "poly" race seats, or the older summit "poly" race seats.
All three were 12 pounds per seat, so I picked the thrifty, cleaner looking ones.
Forgot to post some pics of the tinted lexan I found. ( AKA: poly carb., makrolon., tuffak...etc.) Its not mars resistant, but this should replace the 15 pound sun-roof glass nicely enough.
The first local business I called wanted $75., and was a 30-40 minute drive. But, the second business hooked me up for $40. and was roughly 15 minutes away. ( Score, baby!)
Behold the goodness of the bounty.......
(Mea culpa for the crappy pictures....)
Heres a pretty decent juxtaposition of light and dark.....
(I left some of the "skin" on to protect it until final installation.)
I chose 1/8 " tinted, poly carb because I still want a FUNCTIONAL sunroof versus having to bolt it all down.
Thinner lexan would really wooble, or sag in the heat. ( Some thin and flat, aluminum bar stock should help. Maybe just two of them strategically placed where the glass was originally bolted down.)
Since the interior (version 1.0) needs revamping, I decided to clean house a bit..... and finally removed some significant "left-overs". ( The lower door trim was left out, it was'nt very photogenic.)
The "neo command center" (the new shifter console), doorskins, and dash are gonna get tossed, and remade with an eye for aesthetics, sveltness, and consistantly BETTER materials. (Unfortunately, I keep getting new ideas.................. there may be an interior version 0.5 at this rate.)
Before I prattle on again, here is a quick tally of the parts removed/ replaced:
40 pound battery..................replaced with 15 pounder
76 pound seats (both)............replaced with 24 pound seats
15 pound sun roof glass.........replaced with 3 pound lexan
Deleted lower door trim plastic (both)................1.1 lb.
Deleted drivers side seatbelt/pillar trim plastic.....1.14 lb.
Deleted passenger side seatbelt/pillar trim plastic.....1.12 lb.
The stock sunroof glass is a bit curved. How are you going to deal with getting the Lexan to seal properly with the curvature of the roof line? Are you having it professionally cut and bent to match the stock glass? Is the Lexan the same thickness as stock? Any reason to choose it over a fiberglass insert which was molded from the stock glass?
I've taken off 317.6 pounds so far. I still have to replace the roof glass with lexan, the rear window and the battery for a lightweight unit. Already replaced the windshield with a lexan unit. Lexan windshield = 14.4 Glass windshield = 22.4
many older Honda civics have a thin tall battery that is lite ,,if you can find one cheap..all batteries have gone up 20% in price this Batt will give enough ooomph to turn over the V6 not sure if it would fit inside the spare tire if you used one.. any one know the weight of the Honda Civic Battery?? its a wierd looking car battery
I've stripped out the entire interior, removed the entire HVAC system and associated wiring, removed the spare tire, jack, and windhield washer tank... even removed the passenger side mirror and windshield wiper. And according to my calculations, I've removed a little over 200 lb. I don't see much more I can strip out, and still keep the car street legal. Where did you get the extra weight savings from?
I have the doors stripped (feel like paper) but left the door cross bar, a lexan windshield, battery. haven't got to the sunroof, back window, bumpers, etc.
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:
Wow!
I've stripped out the entire interior, removed the entire HVAC system and associated wiring, removed the spare tire, jack, and windhield washer tank... even removed the passenger side mirror and windshield wiper. And according to my calculations, I've removed a little over 200 lb. I don't see much more I can strip out, and still keep the car street legal. Where did you get the extra weight savings from?
congratulations on your weight reductions, mates! Outstanding!
Ironically, I've been eye ball'n that back window as well......... 14 pounds you say..........hmm. ( To bad lexan's sooo wobbly, I'd love to use it in me doors.)
Dobey,
in answer to your questions.....
the old sunroof glass left an indentation, the lexan litterally FELL into place. Serendipity.
I took the makrolon to Ace hardware, $1. a cut. WARNING: they WONT do any CURVES! ( Most glass cutting businesses will flip you off, or charge $$$$.) It was a major PITA, but with an exacto and one hour, it turned out pretty decent.
Note: Amazingly enough, you can FILE, SAND, and paint this stuff as well.
The lexan has a slight "flexy" ness to it, so it adapted to the roof curvature fairly easily.
I chose lexan over fiberglass purely for the aesthetics, over- all weight requirements, relative "ease"of installation (sort of), and the price was right ($40. tinted, VS $70. clear). P.S.
Still look' n and price comparing materials for decklids. I might have to bite the bullet to achieve the weight I want. Aluminum is awesome, but it has it's limitations. Nuff said.
Originally posted by sunofjustice: Still look' n and price comparing materials for decklids. I might have to bite the bullet to achieve the weight I want. Aluminum is awesome, but it has it's limitations. Nuff said.
You know I can make you skins or lightweight full bolt-on parts, right? (I think I mentioned it before.) I plan to do a little experimenting myself: I usually make parts with 3 layers of 1 1/2 oz. mat, but I think for a racing skin I can get away with one layer of mat & one layer of very fine woven (the woven will roll in without adding more resin). For bolt-on parts, I think 2 layers of mat on both the inner & skin will be sufficient. I do need to buy a gelcoat gun so I can spray on a thin coat instead of thicker brushing it on. Lightweight parts will be a little cheaper than listed on the site (less materials & labor). ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
You know there are different thickness lexan sheets right? I bought a sheet of 1/4(the thickest available) for the windshield and it is very sturdy. I know that about 130mph it will ripple a bit but it is racecar after all. If it bothers me I'll just put a brace in the middle.
quote
Originally posted by sunofjustice:
Lafiera, blacktree,
congratulations on your weight reductions, mates! Outstanding!
Ironically, I've been eye ball'n that back window as well......... 14 pounds you say..........hmm. ( To bad lexan's sooo wobbly, I'd love to use it in me doors.)
Dobey,
in answer to your questions.....
the old sunroof glass left an indentation, the lexan litterally FELL into place. Serendipity.
I took the makrolon to Ace hardware, $1. a cut. WARNING: they WONT do any CURVES! ( Most glass cutting businesses will flip you off, or charge $$$$.) It was a major PITA, but with an exacto and one hour, it turned out pretty decent.
Note: Amazingly enough, you can FILE, SAND, and paint this stuff as well.
The lexan has a slight "flexy" ness to it, so it adapted to the roof curvature fairly easily.
I chose lexan over fiberglass purely for the aesthetics, over- all weight requirements, relative "ease"of installation (sort of), and the price was right ($40. tinted, VS $70. clear). P.S.
Still look' n and price comparing materials for decklids. I might have to bite the bullet to achieve the weight I want. Aluminum is awesome, but it has it's limitations. Nuff said.
My bad if I did'nt know you make custom fiberglass parts, I'll admit to complete ignorance on this matter. No offense to you, or anyone who likes/ loves fiberglass, but I REALLY like aluminum for its racing history, formability, obvious lightness, and clean (no chemicals) workability. Again, I'm NOT snubbing fiberglass, I'm just particularly interested in this metal from an artistic point of view.
Before I forget, thank you Paul for the link, and the potential to purchase race inspired , LIGHTWEIGHT decklids. ( I'm certainly interested, please let me know what the predicted weight will be when possible!)
Even though its a lofty goal, a 5 lb. REAR decklid would rock hardcore.
My bad if I did'nt know you make custom fiberglass parts, I'll admit to complete ignorance on this matter. No offense to you, or anyone who likes/ loves fiberglass, but I REALLY like aluminum for its racing history, formability, obvious lightness, and clean (no chemicals) workability. Again, I'm NOT snubbing fiberglass, I'm just particularly interested in this metal from an artistic point of view. .
I take fiberglass over aluminum on body or any other non-structural parts that contours the shape of the car
Yes, I'm aware they have different poly carb sizes,
They also have thicknesses that range from:
1/8", 1/4", 1/2", 3/16". and 3/8" respectfully.
Lexan also comes in these sizes as well:
.30, .06, .93, .125, .187, .250,.375, .500
I want the fiero to be a "road and track" racer. ( the BENEFITS of racing, incorporated into a street car.) So, for safety purposes, the windshield, and DOOR windows will have to stay DOT approved. ( The other windows are fair game, or "gray-area".)
Originally posted by sunofjustice: but I REALLY like aluminum for its racing history, formability, obvious lightness, and clean (no chemicals) workability.
Even though its a lofty goal, a 5 lb. REAR decklid would rock hardcore.
Racing history is just that, history. Carbon Fiber is the new hotness. Ultralight composites are what aerospace and racing are all about now.
I dn't know if this site is still up (can't access it from work) or the quality of their stuff but, http://www.kingdomcustoms.com has/had CF Fiero parts.
Carbonfiber isnt "New" hotness, it's been around several decades.
CF is very ATTRACTIVE now, because there are alot more marque specific vendors selling right now. (BMW, Porsche, etc., there are MUSCLECAR body parts now.)
Aluminum ISNT history, modern day manufacturing uses this metal quite often.
Even though several others have already mentioned CF for a decklid, I DO realize it IS lighter than aluminum, and there are multiple versions of it to get CREATIVE with it . But, it still can cost $$$$$$$ when you use LARGE amounts of it.
To be fair, I'm interested in a 48 X 96 carbon fiber sheet. (.60 thick) .... at $475. I will use aluminum to form the various scoops I want.
Originally posted by sunofjustice: I'm interested in a 48 X 96 carbon fiber sheet. (.60 thick) .... at $475. I will use aluminum to form the various scoops I want.
Did you mean 0.060? 6/10 inch thick would be insane. Why not buy a roll of material, make a plug/mold of your desired decklid design out of an original and some foam, and fiberglass, and then make the actual decklid you want to install out of CF? I could see using aluminum as the frame, and going this route. Could probably be quite nice in the end. And if you don't care about the trunk because you've removed it already, or are going to, you don't have to worry about sealing up that area either, which gives you some more flexibility in target weight.
Kool! Mine is a "Track and Road" racer, not the other way around. That is why I chose lexan. I don't want to be sliced if I crash because of the glass flying around or good forbid I go through the windshield. Lexan is pretty flexible and in the event something comes off from another competitor most likely it will bounce off and not shatter and block my vision like glass. You doing a very good job on your racer. This thread made me decide to strip my car and the performance gains were very obvious and mind-boggling. That is why I'm going even lighter, that is the only way I can give the V8 and turbo boys a run for their money at the roadcourse. Thanks for this thread again!
quote
Originally posted by sunofjustice:
Lafiera,
Yes, I'm aware they have different poly carb sizes,
They also have thicknesses that range from:
1/8", 1/4", 1/2", 3/16". and 3/8" respectfully.
Lexan also comes in these sizes as well:
.30, .06, .93, .125, .187, .250,.375, .500
I want the fiero to be a "road and track" racer. ( the BENEFITS of racing, incorporated into a street car.) So, for safety purposes, the windshield, and DOOR windows will have to stay DOT approved. ( The other windows are fair game, or "gray-area".)
My bad if I did'nt know you make custom fiberglass parts, I'll admit to complete ignorance on this matter. No offense to you, or anyone who likes/ loves fiberglass, but I REALLY like aluminum for its racing history, formability, obvious lightness, and clean (no chemicals) workability. Again, I'm NOT snubbing fiberglass, I'm just particularly interested in this metal from an artistic point of view.
Before I forget, thank you Paul for the link, and the potential to purchase race inspired , LIGHTWEIGHT decklids. ( I'm certainly interested, please let me know what the predicted weight will be when possible!)
Even though its a lofty goal, a 5 lb. REAR decklid would rock hardcore.
No problem. I've put a LOT of time & money into making these molds & so far no one has stepped up (in spite of a lot of "interest") to buy much of anything. It's pretty much what I expected, though, as I know money is tight & most of us Fiero owners are poor folk. It MAY be possible to make a 5 lb. SKIN, but that would be pushing it. I'll post weights of any finished hoods/decklids once I've made some. (may be a while if no one buys anything)
quote
Originally posted by sunofjustice:
Lafiera,
Fiberglass can crack, and have the HEFT as steel. (Such is the reason why I want to replace it.) Even though Pontiac calls it "sheet molded compound'.
BTW my hand-laid parts are not near as brittle as SMC & it would take a good impact to crack them. Thanks, ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
I HAVE thought about making a mold for a carbon fiber hood, but the over all process of creating such a part would be cumbersome, as well as hazardous.
( I/E: the sheer size of the mold, plus it would probably take a gallon of carnuba wax for a release agent, an AIRTIGHT plastic bag big enough to hold the decklid and still form an airtight seal to vacuum activate the CF/ resin. ( Maybe two tarps FOLDED, and stapled together???)
NO GARAGE to ventilate TOXIC, FLAMMABLE fumes that are a constant byproduct of the creation of said carbonfibre.
The multiple layers of resin to insure that the part surface is SMOOTH.
There are probably other caveats, but I cant think of 'em right now. ( I just got out of work, and I'm sort of out of it.... )
If this helps, I have been looking at carbonfiber COMPOSITES, (foam with carbonfiber shell, vinyl with carbonfiber, plastic with carbonfiber etc, ) .....but the prices were always hovering around what the "pedigree" CF would cost. @!!!$#&!!!
There was some "dragonplate" CF that had an "economical" version, but I think that was a wash as well.
One idea I'm still entertaining, is to get a USED CF hood for another vehicle ( like a firebird, or caprice) and "wittle" that bad boy down to fit the fiero. ( I should be trolling flea bay, or craigslist right now, hmm.)
P.S.
Dobey, the DIY carbonfiber route has significant merit, maybe on a SMALLER, more manageable scale like a spoiler, door mirror, steering wheel ( maybe?), or hood/ side scoop. I'm certain someone here on this forum has the moxy, and resources to successfully pull this off.
Thank you for the link, and no disrespect, but I'm really not interested in MAKING CF parts. I have enough on my proverbial plate as it is.......
( Revamp interior, create aluminum dash, replace door beams with either titanium, aluminum, or CF, DOWNSIZE trunk, DOWNSIZE exhaust, replace rear window with lexan, relocate battery and add lighweight/ hi torque starter......yada, yada, yada.)
I just want a CF sheet big enough for a rear decklid thats READY TO GO. ( This would then take more weight OFF the REAR end.)
If I Dont find something more economically feasible, I may just go with the aluminum as originally planned.
