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Lightweight fiero 101: 2300 pound curb weight is my goal by sunofjustice
Started on: 11-25-2010 04:43 PM
Replies: 445 (28612 views)
Last post by: Francis T on 08-02-2017 08:11 AM
La fiera
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Report this Post12-13-2010 01:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by doublec4:

When are you going to take this thing to the weigh scales?


Yea, take it and weight it to see were you're at now! Good job!
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Report this Post12-13-2010 05:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Brian...

You removed the metal bumper?! Is that permanent, or do you plan on replacing it with another bumper?

Also, the "secondary" dogbone bracket that you removed is the one with more structural strength. The other one, if left by itself, will probably fatigue and break.

Here's an idea: ditch the whole dogbone assembly and replace it with a hollow rod. I've seen this done on muscle cars, where they thread rod-ends into the ends, then bolt one end to the chassis and the other to the cylinder head. You can get metal tubing and rod-ends from McMaster-Carr Industrial Supply. Just an idea.

( actually, that just gave ME an idea... hmmm... )

Also, you can probably ditch the little shock absorber thingy under the A/C compressor, if you haven't already. The mounting bracket for that thing (the one on the engine block) is a hunk of cast metal... pretty hefty.

I'd also like to see how much your Fiero weighs now. I went to the drag strip the other night, and mine came in at 2590 lb. I'm sure yours is significantly lighter... probably in the low 2400s.

The cool thing is that weight reduction allows you to use lighter wheels, tires, and suspension / brake components... which will allow you to shed even more weight. For example, your car would do just fine on 205 or 215mm wide tires, whereas everyone else needs 235 or 245mm in the rear to get the same handling. You could also use skinnier wheels, and shave the brake rotors (maybe have them cross-drilled too).

Anyway, sorry for all the blah-blah. Have fun!
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Report this Post12-14-2010 01:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am also curious to how MUCH
ACTUAL weight was removed.

Unfortunately,
its 5 degrees right now,
and ice patches everywhere.
I BARELY passed a two car
accident on the way to work
today,and it WAS'NT pretty.
(When the weathers crappy,
I drive the a team van exclusively.)

Hopefully,
the roads will clear up
by the end of this week.

BTW,
where else can you get your
car weighed???
Recycle yard maybe?

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sunofjustice
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Report this Post12-14-2010 04:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

sunofjustice

306 posts
Member since Jun 2009
Blacktree,

The rear bumper delete is TEMPORARY.

This past summer,
when looking for a smaller coolant bottle
at "pick your part" in Detroit, I saw these......







Flat aluminum bar stock could be used
for support brackets.
( I WAS going to purchase an aluminum ladder,
chop it up into SECTIONS, and use that instead.
But, the foam bumpers are fiscally more "doable".

Blacktree,
About the secondary dog bone strut,
Quite frankly, I DID'NT want to take it out.
The fat A/C bracket behind it was what
I was after.
The secondary bar weighed sooo much,
I thought theres got to be a better alternative.

Anywho,
The hollow rod with turn buckles on
the end sounds like a good idea.
(ALOT better than the piece of chain
some hotrodders used for torque control
on their engines.)
I HAVE thought of substituting the entire
dogbone assembly, (it IS heavier than stock)
but was'nt sure I should mess around
with something so important.

I already have a hollow steel rod.
it's not adjustable, but can be cut to size.
I even have some spare "poly" bushings
to add to the bar's mounting points.

This could work.

But, I'm wondering HOW MUCH of a load
does the dog bone actually encounter
percentage wise?
100% ? 50% ? 30%?

HOW MUCH torque is ACTUALLY
transmitted to the dog bone?
80 ft lbs? 40-20 ft lbs?

I thought the Primary dogbone bracket
took MORE of the inital torque of
the engine, since it is first in line.
(Thats kind of why I left the
"secondary" bracket off.)

Also,
the little shock absorber jobbie on
the bottom of the engine has got to be
a engine mount or vibration dampner
of some sort.
(It would help if it was at LEAST
acknowledged in the factory service manual.)

Last, but not least.....

For tires, I like the 225's .
It's still alittle early to drop sizes yet.
(Theres still lighter seats,lexan windows, alum.decklids
and a race weight battery to incorporate.)

On brakes,
I was contemplating the installation
of FRONT calipers on the rear.
(Less parts, less weight.)
This idea was always in the back of me noggin.
But, I did'nt want to go through all the work
just to have rear brakes that were OVER SENSITIVE.
(An aftermarket brake proportioning valve
COULD be utilized though.)

Hmm. Most ponderous.

Blacktree,Lafiera,
again much props, and thank you for posting.

[This message has been edited by sunofjustice (edited 12-14-2010).]

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sunofjustice
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Report this Post12-14-2010 11:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

sunofjustice

306 posts
Member since Jun 2009
Another quasi hidden
area for some jenny craig'n
is the stock 86' GT tail lights.

I weighed them son guns
when excavating fiberglass
from the rear, they weigh
5 POUNDS each!
(TEN POUNDS of taillights!?)

I could just keep the OUTER SHELL,
and incorporate lighter
(but, GOOD LOOKING) aftermarket
brake lights.

Another idea is to utilize TINTED poly carbonate.
Supposedly,
you can bend and mold it with a little heat.
(Blow dryer)

To further drop weight,

LED's are lighter and brighter,
and use 1/3 the voltage of incandescents.
Unfortunately, I have'nt seen any
that have the look I want yet.

Since my car already has a louver motif,
I'd like to continue the theme to the rear end
as well.
REAL LOUVER tail lights!
(True pontiac style)
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Report this Post12-14-2010 05:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sunofjustice:

Another quasi hidden
area for some jenny craig'n
is the stock 86' GT tail lights.

I weighed them son guns
when excavating fiberglass
from the rear, they weigh
5 POUNDS each!
(TEN POUNDS of taillights!?)

I could just keep the OUTER SHELL,
and incorporate lighter
(but, GOOD LOOKING) aftermarket
brake lights.

Been there, done that.

The light sockets are pretty weighty, too. When I snipped the light sockets off the wiring harness to make way for my LED lights, I was surprised by that.
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sunofjustice
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Report this Post12-15-2010 10:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Blacktree,

I saw your fiberglass taillight mod,
pretty cool.
The new tail light panel looked pretty svelt.
I'm ALSO surprised the notchie lights
are just as heavy as those for a GT.
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Report this Post12-15-2010 10:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for InTheLeadSend a Private Message to InTheLeadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Crossdrill the entire space frame
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sunofjustice
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Report this Post12-15-2010 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
G' day mates,

I really want to show the rear spoiler surgery next.
But the pix of the homemade ,aluminum,RAM AIR
box DO have some weightloss merit.

(Also, to prevent any confusion,
this is just a friendly reminder that
this project was done during the SUMMER.)

So, with this said......

Lightweight .16 gauge aluminum,
(nicknamed the "beer can metal")
was relatively inexpensive enough
to help me create TWO ram air boxes.
(One for the fiero, the other for the A team van.)





i live in an apartment, so any "sano"
project work has to be farmed out on the carpet,
or on the dining room table.
(Helps prevent scratching, good for detail work.)



(Que evil scientist laugh)
BWAHAHAHA! Destruction leads to creation.....





Kinda looks like a toaster robot does'nt it?

The 4" dryer hose is pretty light, and plentyful.
(I already had some for back up repairs
on the fiero, as well as the astro.)

Once the majority of the box was completed,
( after numerous measuring, and IN CAR
fitment checks)
I then went back outside to complete
the final fitment.




The goal for this project, was to use TRUE ram air
from the drivers-side scoop AND the over roof scoop.
(Please remember this was done during the summer.)

[This message has been edited by sunofjustice (edited 12-15-2010).]

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Gokart Mozart
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Report this Post12-15-2010 12:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sunofjustice:

Since my car already has a louver motif,
I'd like to continue the theme to the rear end
as well.
REAL LOUVER tail lights!
(True pontiac style)


http://www.digi-tails.com/


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sunofjustice
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Report this Post12-15-2010 01:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
To still have easy access to the airbox,
and to keep it relatively cool, a bigger
opening in the engine baymetal was made.
(Some of the metal was RUSTED,
so it was very opportunist.

Here the R.A. box is being trial fitted again



Then sealed up, using the infamous " ventilation adhesive".
(Since the aluminum is mucho THIN,
Latches would have ADDED some weight.
Velcro would be lighter,
but would'nt SEAL the airbox completely.)




The opening in the engine vent,
was originally for the over roof scoop.
So, that hurdle was easily dispatched...


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sunofjustice
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Report this Post12-15-2010 01:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

sunofjustice

306 posts
Member since Jun 2009
Inthelead, GokartMozart,
and anyone who I might
have missed.......
thank you for your effort,
and time.
(Although the "drill holes
in ALL of the cradle "
IS a bit dubious.)

The firebird LEDs look pretty hip, though.

[This message has been edited by sunofjustice (edited 12-15-2010).]

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sunofjustice
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Report this Post12-16-2010 10:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We'll be back after these messages.....
b u m p
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Fieroseverywhere
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Report this Post12-16-2010 01:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sunofjustice:

BTW,
where else can you get your
car weighed???
Recycle yard maybe?


Truck weight station. Not extremely accurate but free and all over the freeways. Open or not the scales work, you barely even have to stop.
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sunofjustice
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Report this Post12-16-2010 09:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fieroseverywhere,

This info REALLY helps.
much props, and thank you!

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sunofjustice
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Report this Post12-17-2010 02:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
OK,

for those still following along,
my apologies for the wait.


Since alot of my previous mods were
created fundamentally for FUNCTION,
sometimes the FORM got compromised.
Such was the case with the SEALING
of the drivers side, over roof scoop.
To rectify this oversight, and to help
give others MORE ideas on how to
utilize their scoops more efficently,
I redid the under scoop sealing process.
( This 2.0 version looks much better.)

Starting from scratch......







I was curious to how much the scoops weighed,
and ascertained the scoops weigh 5 lbs each!
( 10 POUNDS of scoops.)

Besides the crap people were giving me about
the aerodynamic drag and such,
( No one said squat about the ORIGINAL FACTORY
over roof scoop, that was'nt even FUNCTIONAL,
aerodynamically it was akin to a big air brake. Hmm.


Whatever.


Heres the starting point of the sealing mod.......






Here I placed the air opening as close to
where the majority of the air would come
in at the base of the scoop.
I also added a SECOND water drain.
( The first drain is in the bottom of
the air box.)




I added a simple "air ramp" to help
direct incoming air towards the lower
opening of the metal block off plate.
( More fanciful work could be done,
but adding MORE of anything will
just add more unnecessary weight.



A mockup for the sheetmetal "collar"
that the dryer hose will ultimately hook up to.....




You DONT have to use tape, per se.
Automotive "goop" works VERY well
and sets up quickly for a more sano
presentation.
Here the pieces of the puzzle start coming together.












Viola.

Mission accomplished.
I should of added an extra inch of metal
for trimming purposes, and readjusted
the air hose "collar" a bit.
But,
since I plan to remove both scoops for
weight loss (10 lbs), this mod is just
for the benefit of others.
( I AM still drawing sketches for SVELT,
WIND CHEATING over the roof scoops though.)

Me still likey.

Hint:
the next post will showcase an airbox
that I made to fit old school, ROUND air filters.
( The previous "box" was for a CONE filter.)

"Stay tuned, and dont touch that dial............."

[This message has been edited by sunofjustice (edited 12-18-2010).]

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sunofjustice
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Report this Post12-18-2010 12:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Guten tag,

even though this RAM AIR box
was made for my van, it IS
made of LIGHTWEIGHT materials.

This BASIC design could also
be used by others who may wish
for ram air on their iron duke, carby
v6, or SBChevy.



After making a R.A. box for the fiero,
I felt gutsy enough to make one
"on the fly" and thusly headed to
the local auto zone.
( Their parking lot is alot SMOOTHER,
plus a change of scenery was needed.)



Someone had some fun.....





Initial mock up usually involves cardboard
cutting FIRST.
But, I felt "lucky" today
and worked without a net.








Trial fitting......












At the time,
this was late summer, so I headed
back home for some quick R&R
and installed the 4" hoses.




Reminds me of the show lost in space.
( "Danger will robertson, danger!......")



I'm sure ONE 4" hose would be enough
air for a 4.3 v6, but I wanted uber, MAXIMUM
airflow to the filter.

Since the "van experience" involves
TIGHT engine bay clearances,
I had to make some concessions.
( You have to break some eggs
to make an omelet.)

So.......

(Que the buzzsaw sample)
BWRRRRRunnnnnbruunnnn











Installed!

The OLD ram air hoses were then
used to further cool off the rear of
the engine compartment.

Initially,
I planned for the airbox to have
a poly carb or acrylic view panel
to monitor the ram air whilst driving,
AND to visual check for needed
maintenance.

But, money was TIGHT,
so it had to wait.

Total weight, 18 oz., COST about $12.
( Did'nt have money at the time,
but I "got 'er done".)

New REVERSE cowl induction,
FRUGALLY done with mucho thanks to PFF!!!



I realize this is a bit OFF TOPIC, but I thought
the pix were kinda interesting, as well as quasi
related.

[This message has been edited by sunofjustice (edited 12-18-2010).]

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sunofjustice
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Report this Post12-20-2010 02:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just an update,

Still looking for the CLOSEST truck
weigh station, there's supposed to
be one on 1-94 between 21mile
and 23 mile.
I Went in the van to check it out
but did'nt see one. @#$%!!!
(Waste of gas)

The fiero's vac. booster felt like crap
last time I took it out for the photo ops.
It just got progressively WORST and
I have'nt driven it since.
I HOPE it's just a worn out rubber vac.
grommet on the booster, otherwise it's
some $$$.

I REALLY DONT want to drive the fiero
in wintertime, but IF I can find somewhere
CLOSE enough to get it weighed I can
get this DONE.....and submit PROOF.

I'm going to call GLR recycling in the morning,
they had a huge scale out front when I was
dropping off some two stroke parts.

I found out that cars are weighed before dyno tuning,
there are a few tuner shops in the phone book.
Question is.....are they STILL in business???

Sorry,
for the procrastination..........but I DONT want to
drive the fiero until that brake problem is FIXED.
( I still think it could be just a loose vac. hose
or something. )

P.S.

Will give update on next post,
I need to HUSTLE because it
will SNOW 1-3 inches TUESDAY.
With the weigh in done, and PROVEN.....
I can resume with MORE interesting weightloss
modifications, and my version of a DUAL
THROTTLEBODY idea.
( Although I STILL have to get a second
manifold to cut up thpugh.)


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doublec4
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Report this Post12-20-2010 11:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I should have a second upper intake manifold if you want to cut it up. Just pm me and we can work something out. Nice project, keep it up.
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sunofjustice
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Report this Post12-20-2010 03:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Doublec4,

I AM interested in your offer,
will send a PM today.

Thankyou for the opportunity!


Brian
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Report this Post12-20-2010 03:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

sunofjustice

306 posts
Member since Jun 2009
I attempted to fix the crappy vac. booster
this morning.
The ORIGINAL, rubber vac. booster SEAL
was fairly loose and needed new clamps.

So, I went here...............




and got these...................



"HELP" vac. booster/ w rubber seals,
and clamps. Roughly $10.
(Still seemed HIGH, but I want WORKING brakes.)

Unfortunately,
that did'nt solve the problem.

I'll have to try removing the
vac. filter, and install a piece
of aluminum line to see if
the brake filter has a crack.

( If THAT does'nt solve the
lack of power brakes,then
I'll have to buy a new vac. booster.) $$$

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sunofjustice
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Report this Post12-20-2010 04:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Welp,

I went to get the fiero weighed TODAY,
since 1-3 inches of snow is expected tomorrow.

The brakes still work, but are SLOW.
So, I drove the car equally as such.
( With 6-8 car lengths in front of me.)
Driving ms. daisey style, 5 mph BELOW
the limit.)

Thankfully, people were decent about it,
and that helped ease my angst a bit.

Here is where I weighed the car...........



GLR recycling on groesbeck.




(The fiero is hiding a little to the left)

There scale is the big, yelow rectangle
pictured here below....



I SHOULD of taken this pic with the car on the scale,
but I was kind of anxious to see the results and forgot.

GOOD NEWS....


TOTAL WEIGHT was 2,480 lbs!

(Without driver.)









Hallejiah!

Only a 180 lbs (or 170 WITHOUT the roof scoops) to go.

Despite having a faulty gas gauge, and odometer,
I just BARELY had enough petrol to still motorvate....





YIKES....




Thank GOD I made it............

[This message has been edited by sunofjustice (edited 12-21-2010).]

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La fiera
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Report this Post12-21-2010 11:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Good for you man and thank you for taking the time and effort to share your results! It makes the job easier for the ones contemplating to lighten their cars, in this case; me.

Rei Moloon

[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 12-21-2010).]

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Report this Post12-23-2010 11:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Lafiera,

molto grazie for the props.

There are ALOT of aspects of the car
that still need to be addressed or REDONE
(interior, sail panels, decklids etc.)
due to lack of experience, lack of funds,
and some modifications that just did'nt meet
my OWN personal preferences.

Hopefully you can understand,
I find myself LAMENTING quite often
about the QUALITY of my work.

regardless,
your POSITIVE validation certainly helps,
and IS greatly appreciated.

Again, thank you for the reply.


Brian

[This message has been edited by sunofjustice (edited 12-23-2010).]

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Report this Post12-23-2010 12:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

sunofjustice

306 posts
Member since Jun 2009
For those who are still following along,
here is the rear spoiler weightloss mod.

I was'nt certain to how much the spoiler
ACTUALLY weighed, since I never really
had a reason to remove it either.

Whelp, via the trusty bathroom scale.......
the spoiler (plus pedestals), weighed 10 lbs.

Initially,
I wanted to take weight off the spoiler
without it looking hacked up.

So then it hit me,
the "stealth spoiler" idea
( where the wing is LOWERED and moved 3" back)
would be an ideal method to conceal the results
of the "liposuction".

But, the $80. for the kit was'nt fiscally doable.

Still, a variation of this mod SHOULD be attainable
with some yankee ingenuity.

I already had some aluminum bar stock
to replace the pedestals,
and some .16 gauge aluminum flashing
to replace the panels that would be cut out.

Hmm.

Heres the wing with the pedestals off.........



Post some hot and heavy DREMMEL action........






Here are the pieces removed......



Sadly, only 3 lbs were removed,
I was hopeing for at least five.

IMHO, I LIKE the aesthetics of the wing.
Sure, it's not really needed on a rear engine
car, but it sure is SEXY!!!
A 7 lb spoiler is still a bit hefty, so I'll
eventually go to a ducktail when I find
the right one.
( I tried leaving the wing off,
but the rear just looks boring without it.)

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Report this Post12-23-2010 01:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

sunofjustice

306 posts
Member since Jun 2009
Here the aluminum bars are installed
with high strength bolts/ washers.
(A little automotive "goop"
was used in tandem with the bolts.)



Here the aluminum panels are sealed
with "goop" as well.
( I WAS going to bolt the aluminum
in with small machine screws,
but the goop is ALOT lighter,and faster to use.)





Sorry for the DARK pix,
these were taken on saturday night
after work.

Just before church, I sprayed the wing
so I could install it later this evening.





( Via the spray can magic.)

Here is the final results............








Mission accomplished!
( Sorry 'bout giving everybody the "finger",
It was starting to get VERY cold when
I took the pix.)

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Report this Post12-23-2010 07:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Mikey likes!

Don't feel bad about the "learning curve" with respect to the custom made parts. I think anyone who has been there and done that has gone through a similar process. I know I have. I'm already on my second fiberglass console, because the first looked too amateurish. I've redone the rear end twice, because after the first round, I gained more fiberglass experience, and the courage to do what I envisioned in the first place.

Also, congrats on the sub-2500 lb weigh-in. And have a happy Christmas.
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Report this Post12-24-2010 10:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

Also, congrats on the sub-2500 lb weigh-in. And have a happy Christmas.


x2 here also.

Getting below 2500 with a fastback is pretty good. The fiero is a difficult one to drop weight from. Mine in an 85GT with all of the fun 88 parts (cradle, gas tank, brake calipers w/12" vette rotors, full interior + sound deadener, fastback conversion, and getrag trans swap). It weighs in at 2650 without driver. No weight reduction done yet. Only removal of un-needed items during the build. You're almost 200lbs below mine. Not too shabby at all.

Out of curosity, have you looked into a 4.9 swap? Relatively inexpensive. Adds 60-70hp and 110ft lbs of TQ over the 2.8. Very lightweight engine for its displacement. I actually dropped 20lbs out of the back by doing the swap (actually 55lbs after moving the battery up front). It weighs within 10lbs of the 2.8. But when you remove the associatied 2.8 bracketry and other now un-necissary stuff you net a lower overall weight. The V8 rumble is just an added bonus. If your handy enough to make your own harness, exhaust, and mounts it could be done for under $800 easily. It would be a nice boost to your power to weight ratio. Just a thought.

2480lb/140hp=17.7lb/hp
2460lb/200hp=12.3lb/hp

Anyway, congrats on what you've accomplished so far. Just doing your seats, stereo, and other planed reductions will get you very close to reaching your 2300lb goal. Keep up the good work!

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 12-24-2010).]

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Report this Post12-24-2010 10:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Blacktree, fieroseverywhere,

mucho thankx for the kudos!

I was sort of bummed out
about the lackluster fit and
finish of my modifications.

Especially since that
interior rebuild took soooooo
long to complete, and it's
STILL not quite "there" yet.

But, I'm grateful to make
progress on my car, and
ecstatic to make it this close to
my ultimate goal of 2300 lbs.

Hopefully,
with the target weight reduction
and additional horsepower ascertained,
I can FINALLY concentrate more
on making the fiero "pretty" again.
Mmmm. Body paint that DID'NT come
from a rattle can.


P.S.

Stay tuned,
an insightfull, serendipitous post is NEAR.
( Hint: the magazine article
that inspired me to instigate this thread.)

Nuff said.

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Report this Post12-25-2010 05:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Merry christmas, mates!

Here is the link about the car
that really made an impression
on me.

WARNING:
The car IS'NT much to look at,
but the "grassroots" feel of the car
kind of pulled me in.

I hope you find it as interesting
as I did.

Here you go............

http://www.highperformancep..._grand_am/index.html
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Report this Post12-26-2010 01:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For those who may have
just skimmed over the link,
here are some highlight pix
without the suspense.........

Shazam.

A 2,100 pound, 12 second,
N/A, quad four grand am
kick'n major gluttious maximus....



Super hooptie....







Under the bonnet, all business.
But, could use some paint...




Heres the interior............
You want gutted? THIS is gutted.
( Nice and rusty, yum.)







The dash is cool, but the rest
COULD be "polished up" a little.
Regardless,
I do like the minimalism.
Very visceral.



IMHO, I dont really care for
the usage of giggle gas.
( It just seems like you're
RENTING perf. instead
of OWNING it.)
No offense to those who use it,
just my 2 cents.

Even though this car was'nt a fiero,
it's still a member of the pontiac family,
and a kissing cousin with roughly
the SAME curb weight.

Pretty interesting stuff,
just thought I'd share the article.


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Report this Post12-28-2010 12:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
b


u
m
p

working on rear vent,
intake designs.

p

e

a

c

e
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Report this Post12-28-2010 03:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Why not make the hood and deck out of reinforced aluminum? Fixed headlights would get rid of the motors.
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Report this Post12-30-2010 02:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Gokart Mozart,

I still plan to EVENTUALLY install all aluminum
decklids (front and rear), hopefully this spring, or summer.

I'm still not sure about what GRADE of aluminum
to use for the "skin" of the front and rear decklids.
I plan to incorprate a subframe of aluminum barstock
to help support the aluminum,
AND to help prevent warping and buckling.
( Maybe .100-.125" 5052 aluminum.)

As far as FIXED headlights, I already addressed that matter.






$20. rally driving lights are bright, lightweight
and frugal.

[This message has been edited by sunofjustice (edited 12-30-2010).]

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Report this Post12-31-2010 03:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here is my "ULTIMATE" weight loss IDEAS list.

Every idea from magazine articles I've read,
suggestions provided by the members on this forum,
and just some observations and ideas I've cultivated.

The list will be broken up into TWO sections,
the former will be STEALTH weight loss.
The latter will be HARDCORE weight loss.
(Respectfully.)
For those who want to be more clandestine,
but want to "slim down" for whatever reasons.


STEALTH.......................................................................


Front fascia:

There is a large area of plastic UNDER the nose.
This could be replaced with light grade aluminum.
( I plan to do this mod this spring.)

There is a metal fascia support bar
in the lower nose as well.
I looked for it, but it was already gone.
( Probably the repair shop who replaced
the fascia did'nt bother to reinstall it.)

Bumper beams and bumper supports (" waffles")

There are several options to choose from.

1. Leave everything fairly stock,
but just CUT OUT (or drill)
small portions of the bumper beams.
The same could be done with the "waffles",
( bumper support media.)

2. Remove the entire front bumper beam,
replace with SMALLER,LIGHTER steel bar.

3. Remove the entire f.b.b.
replace with aluminum bar (s),
( An aluminum ladder could be utilized
by cutting it up into sections, and
reconfiguring it.)

4. Remove the entire f.b.b.
replace with foam inner bumpers
that some latermodel GM cars use.

There are little "dog ears" on the very tip
of the front sub frame that could be trimmed off.


Remove the front hood prop mechanism,
use a prop rod made of aluminum.

Remove steering dampner.
( Easy 3 lbs.)

Remove spare, jack and lugnut pry bar.
Use RUNFLAT tires.

Remove jack support bracket.

Replace larger window washer reservoir
(if applicable) with SMALLER early
style washer reservoir.
(Dont fill it up more than half,
fluids have weight as well.)

Replace rubber coolant hoses with
PORTIONS of aluminum tube.

Replace steel coolant lines
(Under car, and to engine)
with aluminum pipe.
Paint black.

Replace steel vacuum brake line
with aluminum.
Paint black.

Replace plastic vacuum lines
on engine with aluminum.
Paint it, baby.

Replace steel gas tank with plastic fuel cell,
or custom aluminum gas tank.

Replace MIDDLE fuel tank support bracket
with lighter steel, or titanium bars.
( Keep gas tank 1/2 full, fuel weighs roughly
6-7 lbs a gallon.)

Replace door impact beams with either LIGHTER
steel, Titanium bars, or aluminum.
( The beams are rumored to weigh 10 lbs each,
I'll find out for sure this summer.)

Replace metal door mirrors with lighter alternative.
( Plastic rally mirrors from summit,
or decent looking motorcycle mirrors.)
Holes could be drilled UNDERNEATH
the stock mirrors as well.

Replace stock floor mats with lighter mats.
(The stock mats weigh 5 lbs together!)

Replace the bulkhead liner
( behind the seats)
with just light carpeting.
(For heat insulation, dynamat is fairly light.
To really save some weight, use thermal-tec
heat repellant paint on engine bay wall.)

Sunvisors could be replaced with acrylic,
or lexan covered with grey fabric.
(the metal in the visor could be replaced
with a lighter metal as well.)

Use just TWO speakers instead of four.

Replace floor carpet with a lighter alternative,
(you'll have to shop around to ascertain
what you're willing to LIVE WITH.)
Stock, the floor carpet is 40 lbs!

There are some small door reinforcements
hidden behind the door covers that can be removed.

The sunroof glass can be replaced with TINTED lexan.
( Should be a 10 lb reduction.)

The rear window could also be replaced with lexan.
( Have'nt weighed it yet, but should be 10 lbs as well.)

How many POWER OPTIONS can you do without???
(Power windows, mirrors, trunk release, window defrost.,
A/C, cruise. etc. etc.)

Personally, I want power windows.

Replace headliner with fiberglass, or cloth covered foam.

Map pockets have some weight, do you really use them???

These could be replaced with vinyl, or leather inserts.

Sail panels could be replaced with aluminum
that has openings for the "flying buttresses'.
(Lexan probably could be molded to fit as well.)

Stock fiero 14" or 15" wheels are fairly light to begin with.

To further reduce unsprung weight,
replace CLOSED END lugnuts with OPEN ENDED lugnuts.

Some tire valve stems are pretty long,
there are SHORTER, lightweight air valve stems available.
( Some are very clean looking.)

A narrower tire helps reduce unsprung weight as well.

I currently have aluminum craggars
with 16" 225 55 series tires.
After thinking about it, I'll probably go to 215's
on the front, and leave the rears alone.
( Maybe. A LIGHTER tire would have LESS inertia ,
which would help acceleration somewhat.)

IF you never use them, ditch the emergency brakes,.
The handle assembly, and the cables.
(Roughly 5-6 lbs. )

Replace rear calipers with FRONT calipers.
(Less parts, less weight. Rears should work MORE
efficently.)
With the e brake nomenclature gone,
this mod should be more doable.
(Warning:
This idea is just a THEORY of mine,
an adjustable porportioning valve may be required.)


Drilled stock rotors could also be utilized.

Replace stock suspension
(front and rear) with TUBULAR suspension.

Remove rear decklid torsion spring, and torx bolts.
( An aluminum prop rod gets the job done.
5-6 lbs. deleted.)

Remove rear deck release solenoid,
plus harness.

Remove trunk blower fan and tubes.

There are HIDDEN pockets of fiberglass
BEHIND the tail lights that can be extracted
with a cut off wheel.

Replace cat (if applicable) with test pipe.

Remove factory muffler,replace with SHORT glasspack.

Remove factory muffler support springs
and brackets.

For those who DONT have to be emissions
complient..........

Get new computer chip burned
from darth fiero with the intent to remove
the EGR valve.
With this done,
Remove EGR, plug EGR hole in intake with epoxy,
Remove EGR intake to exhaust tube
Remove EGR mount bracket
Remove EGR exhaust mount, cover opening
new opening with a portion of LIGHT steel sheet
and secure with clamps.
Last but not least,
Remove the electronic control solenoid.
( With everything combined, roughly 4 lbs. deleted.)

Stock dogbone is LIGHTER than upgrade,
but prone to cracking.
A lighter steel bar with poly could be fashioned.
(poly shock bushings are available individually
at 0' reilys and autozone. Probably summit, and jegs as well.)

Replace battery with lightweight drycell.
( Stock battery averages 40 lbs., a good affordable
d-cell averages 15 lbs.)

Shorten trunk floor so it's not as DEEP.
Or, cut judicious rectangles from the trunk walls,
and epoxy in aluminum sheets.

Remove restrictive metal backing from decklid vents.

Remove old, nasty factory heat insulation from
engine bay.

Remove old, rusty vacuum pipe from engine bay wall.
(Sometimes these are left in from the factory recall fix.)

Replace chunky, factory cold air intake box
with aluminum flex pipe, or aluminum dryer vent
hose. (Expandable.)

Remove restrictive airfilter hold down bracket,
use rodney dickman upgrade.


Replace steel PCV pipe with a k&n valvecover breather.
( Also prevents carbon build up in the upper intake.)

Replace factory starter with lighter tilton starter from summit,
or use a LIGHTER starter from another GM car.
(I'll have to go look it up again, but I think it was from a grandprix.)

Replace factory crank pulley with aluminum underdrive pulley.
(Not too much underdriven though.)
There may be aluminum pulleys to replace
your alternater, and water pump pulley as well.
( Helps prevent parasitic power loss.)

Remove or replace factory "y" exhaust tip splitters.

Remove factory exhaust tip heat shields in bumper,
replace with thermo-tec heat preventative tape,or paint.

Rear bumper and bumper support media:

Same options as stated previously in opening.

This completes the first part of the list,
will post the HARDCORE WEIGHT LOSS list
later.

Brian

[This message has been edited by sunofjustice (edited 01-01-2011).]

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Report this Post01-03-2011 01:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok,

here is the second part of my "ULTIMATE"
weight loss IDEAS list.

HARDCORE......................................................................


Remove front fascia bumper beams and support media.
(waffles, or called egg crates)
Removes 15 lbs.

If car is still used for street, replace bumper beams with
aluminum, or GM factory styro foam support bumpers.

I forget EXACTLY how much the front fascia weighed,
(mainly because it was'nt going to be removed, or replaced)
but if I recall properly, it weighed roughly 40 lbs.

Fiberglass front ends might be lighter than stock,
but a full aluminum, or carbon fiber front fascia
should be lighter still.
( Albeit the cost, and time of fabrication would be astronomical.)

If the car is used for street, remove the entire BOTTOM
of the front fascia.........leaving enough material on the edges
to install light gauge aluminum sheet.

There are little "dog ears" on the end of the front subframe
that can be safely trimmed off.

Remove pop up headlight nomenclature:
lights, doors, motors, brackets, etc.
Replace with plastic headlights, or driving lights.
Attach to .25 gauge aluminum sheet.

The $20. rally lights I use are light plastic,
but have a heavy bolt/nut that mounts them,
this could be removed.
Aluminum tabs could be employed to secure
the lights via SMALLER machine bolts, or adhesive. (Goop)

Lexan, or acrlyic can then be used to cover the lights.

Remove front hood prop up mechanism,
use aluminum prop rod.

Replace front hood, rear decklid with aluminum.

Remove spare tire, jack, lug nut removal wrench,
and jack support bracket.

When these are removed, there are little metal studs that
can be extracted from that area.

Replace the coolant reservoir with SMALLER plastic one.
There are aluminum coolant "catch cans" available at summit,
and Jegs.

For track, remove horns.
For street, keep one high pitched horn.

For track purposes,
remove wiper nomenclature: wipers, arms, motor,moto trans,
brackets, hoses, reservoir, access covers, relays, and wire.
(Dont forget reservoir mounting studs.)

If car is still used for the street,
use SMALLER washer water jug.
(If washer is RARELY used, a bicycle water bottle
could be utilized. Remember to check occasionally.)

Some cars use a MONO wiper system
(Mercedes w210 , 220 e-class, subaru xt, fiat uno)
I thought about acquiring a REAR mount wiper system,
and use the parts from that to form a LIGHTER, one
wiper system for the street.
( A psuedo blade/ arm could be left for apperences.)
Again, this is just a proposal.

Remove upper radiator support, replace with small
aluminum tabs.

Remove lower radiator support, replace with alum. barstock.
(A full aluminum radiator could be incorparated as well.)

Replace upper radiator rubber, with light gauge aluminum.

Remove entire A/C system: HVAC, evaporator, accumulator,
compressor, A/C lines under car, engine brackets, misc. lines,
fittings, relays, wires etc.

Remove A/C, HVAC control panel , cables, and wires.
(Dont forget the fuse.)

There are some little fender / front fascia mounting bosses
that could be stratigically removed.
(a few onces each.)

Remove radio, speakers, amp if equipped, cable, antenae,
antenae base (in fender), wires, and connectors.
(Speaker covers as well.)

If car is still used for the street,
a 9 oz. ipod speaker system could be used
to replace the 12lb system.
( Aluminum sheet could be used to block off
the speaker openings.)

Replace entire dash with aluminum, or fiberglass.
Use autometer ULTRALITE gauges.

Replace AUX gauge pod (1 lb) with ULTRALITES

What OPTIONS can you live WITHOUT????
Choose to keep, or toss the following:
power windows, power mirrors, cruise, rear trunk release,
rear defrost, and all related brackets, motors, and wire.

Remove floor carpeting (40 lbs.), and insulation.

Remove bulkhead liner (10 lbs.) behind seats.

Remove computer cover (10 lbs.)
(For street , replace with a simple aluminum,
or fiberglass cover.)


Remove shifter cover

Remove HVAC controls surround

Replace stock shifter, with SHORTER shifter
( A billet aluminum shifter could be retro fitted.)

Remove the plastic "skeleton'.
(For street, poly foam can be substituted for
REASONABLE comfort.)

Remove plastic door surround trim,
carpeted door covers with map pockets (10 lbs.),
door pull handles ( 6 lbs.)
(A simple pull strap could be fashioned for door closing.)
and various door stiffener brackets.


Replace metal mirrors with plastic versions
from summit, or try light, aerodynamic motorcycle mirrors.
(If feeling lucky, ONE mirror could be utilized.)

Not sure of the weight,
but a REAR CAMERA system could be employed
to go MIRRORLESS.

Remove plastic from the TOP of the lower rocker panel,
replace with aluminum.
(The area you step over when getting out of the car.)
The BOTTOM of the same area could be removed as well.
(I plan to do this one as well.)

Remove headliner (about 5-6 lbs.)

Remove plastic interior panels next to seats.

Remove metal sunroof surround

Replace sunroof glass with lexan.

Replace rear window glass with lexan.

For track,
replace all windows with polycarbonate.
(Mars resistant lexan will help keep scratches to minimal.)

Remove or replace sail panels with lexan, acrylic,
or aluminum.

Use 14', or 15" aluminum, or alloy rims.

Use narrowest tire (within reason.) to reduce unsprung weight.

Use OPEN ENDED lugnuts.

Remove emergency brake system IF your
entire braking system is WELL MAINTAINED,
or is recently NEW.

Use stock sized, cross-drilled calipers.

Replace rear calipers with FRONT calipers.

Replace stock FRONT, and REAR suspension
with tubular upgrades.

Plastic fender inserts can be removed.

If car is used on the street, PORTIONS
of the fender inserts can be judiciously trimmed off.

Remove rear rubber inner fender, mud flaps.
For street, these can be trimmed down
or removed if driven in the DRY ONLY.
( Anti rust paint is strongly advised in this area.)

Taking a break,
will be cont. later....................
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Report this Post01-04-2011 11:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Doublec4,

PM sent.
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Report this Post01-04-2011 03:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

sunofjustice

306 posts
Member since Jun 2009
here is the second half of HARDCORE
weight loss IDEAS.............................
Replace stock seats (roughly 40lbs. each),
with Summit plastic race seats (12lbs.)
and sliders (3 lbs.)

Remove rear decklid spring/ bolts (5 lbs.),
and use aluminum prop rod.

Replace , or remove rear spoiler.(10 lbs.)
( A ducktail spoiler is a viable option.)

Replace rear decklid with aluminum (50 lb. guesstimate).

Replace stock hinges with aluminum,
or use hood pins, or dzus fasteners.

Replace rear decklid vents (roughly 3lbs. each)
with aluminum versions.
( Will show pics of this mod soon.)

Remove hidden fiberglass BEHIND taillights.

Replace tail lights (10 lbs.) with lighter, brighter LED's.

Remove , or trim down the trunk.

(If the car is still for the street, 6" square sections
of trunk could be judiciously removed.)


Replace heavy engine with a LIGHTER, higher powered
alternative.

If keeping current engine,
look for lighter EXTERNAL components.

IE: Aluminum intakes (if applicable), alum. pulleys, lighter oil-pan (if possible),
lighter valve covers, Lighter INTAKE hose or pipe,AIRFILTER
( I have a 5 pounder that will be replaced)
t.b. coolant tubes, UNNEEDED engine hoist brackets/ bolts
(DONT throw away, you may need them in the FUTURE.)

Replace engine rubber coolant hoses with aluminum sections.

Replace engine steel coolant pipes with aluminum.

Replace fairly light, but prone to cracking FACTORY dogbone
with LIGHTER steel bar with poly bushings.

Get a computer chip burned by darthfiero with the intent
of removing the EGR.
(This applies to emissions exempt, track duty cars only.)

With this done, you can safely remove ALL EGR related
components:

EGR valve, intake to EGR tube, EGR mounting bracket,
EGR exhaust mount, EGR vac. solenoid.
( Roughly 6 lb.s all together.)

Replace gas tank vapor canister with a compressed airline filter.
(Husky sells a fairly affordable one at home depot.)

Replace all steel vac. lines with aluminum.
(Turbo guys may want to stick with steel.)

Remove old, rusty vac. line from rear engine wall
that was left over from the recall days.

Replace the steel PCV intake pipe (if applicable),
with a k&n valve cover breather.


If engine has IRON exhaust manifolds, replace with steel headers.

Even though your headers are usually based on a desired RPM,
a SHORTER header/ Y-pipe combo would be obviously lighter.



Replace stock fiero exhaust with a SIDE EXITTING configuration.
( Again, the exhaust has WEIGHT to it, the less of it you have
the better for weight savings.)
If the car is emissions exempt, or solely used for the track,
Replace the "cat" with a test pipe.
Replace stock muffler with SHORT glasspack, or RACE MUFFLER.

Reroute the exhaust:
If the cat has already been removed,
reconfigure the exhaust so that it doesnt circumvent
the entire engine bay.
(The Y-pipe would be to the REAR of the engine,
instead of in front of it.)

Replace the exhaust with aluminum.
(Tail end of Y-pipe back)
Since aluminum is not as hard as steel,
longivity would be an issue on the street.
(Very limited drive time is recommended.)

Replace stock starter with lighter tilton race version.

Replace stock battery with lightweight drycell.


Remove factory bumper beams, and bumper support media
(15 lbs.)

If car is used for the street.....aluminum barstock or GM
factory late model styrofoam bumpers could be utilized.

Strip car of ALL paint, primer..........repaint with minimal
amount of PRIMER ONLY.
(Paint has a certain amount of heft as well.)

This is all I could think of for now.
I'll reedit if I think, or find something of value.
Brian
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Report this Post01-11-2011 02:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Update on the "hardcore list":


1. Replace rear decklid vents with aluminum,
or LIGHTER gauge steel.
(Maybe kevlar if you have the means to do so.)

2. Replace steering wheel with aluminum version.


http://www.joesracing.com/s...ew.asp?idproduct=765

http://www.speedwaymotors.c...ering-Wheel,891.html

(Success! Getting the hang of links, VERY simple.)


3. Replace gas tank INLET pipe with aluminum,
or lighter gauge steel.

4. Cut coil springs (if appliciable) by one coil.
You're probably better off buying eibachs
to replace the stocker coils.
However, it is a THRIFTY, fly by night method
to LOSE WEIGHT, and LOWER the car
for better handling.
Especially for DIY'ers.


5. Replace factory cradle with tubular steel.

6. Replace automatic with 4 speed manual.

7. Replace stock flywheel with aluminum.
( I might have already posted this...)

Anywho,

I've been working on an aluminum replacement
for the rear decklid SIDE VENT.
So far, the drivers side vent is 98% completed!

Pics will be coming shortly,


"Stay tuned, and dont touch that dial...."

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Report this Post01-11-2011 04:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

sunofjustice

306 posts
Member since Jun 2009
Since the over roof scoops were contributing
10 lbs. of weight to the rear, I finally acquiesced
and removed them.

Unfortunately,
I then had to do something with the makeshift openings,
( resulting from cutting open the rear decklid vents)
that made the O.R. scoops functional.

While carrying the vent inside, I realized these parts
were never weighed.
( They SEEM light enough....)

So I placed the one vent on the scale and low and behold.....






Although some partitions are missing from the vent,
the sucker still weighs close to 3 lbs.!
( Roughly 6 lbs. for both vents.)


Previously,
I was going to just make a quick "wham, bam,thank you, mamm"
proto type.
But, I was 'nt certain what STYLE to go with.
( Stay stock look'n, or modify to true louvers.)

Heres a rough idea of what was considered....



But, I dont have the proper tools to cut this design
accurately, or consistently.

So.........the factory design won out.

Here is some nice .20 gauge aluminum, and flatbar stock
that was on sale at lowes.....





Heres the initial mock up.....





I'm kind of running late for work,
(Plus, its snowing .....@!#$!! )

Well post final pics and weight later.


Brian
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