Keeping this out of the archives, I will get back to it one of these months!

I just shipped out my wiring harness to Mike Gonzalez from here on our forums. He's going to give it a good one-over and then shoot it back to me. I'd like to thank Mike for his help, if you haven't yet this guy really does deserve a +.

The wiring harness has been verified by Mike, I'm headed down to work on the fiero over spring break and will take it with me. I'm hoping to have the engine compression tested by a shop when i'm down there. I have some suspicions that instead of using the 5' battery ground wire that came with the relocation kit that put the ground cable at the swaybar mount, I should've purchased a different one and ran it back to the engine directly.

quote Originally posted by JamesCurtis: The wiring harness has been verified by Mike, I'm headed down to work on the fiero over spring break and will take it with me. I'm hoping to have the engine compression tested by a shop when i'm down there. I have some suspicions that instead of using the 5' battery ground wire that came with the relocation kit that put the ground cable at the swaybar mount, I should've purchased a different one and ran it back to the engine directly.

I just did my homemade battery relocation, and I used a 3' ground and attached it to the fender area. No problems yet, and it cranks just as fast as before. I also ran a full sized battery cable from the engine block to the chassis.
So, you may have different results, but it shouldn't be needed. Just make sure to clean around the chassis ground with sand paper or a grinder to make sure you get a good connection.

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'84 3800SC, XP cam, 3.2 pully, HPTuners, N* TB, 4sp, SPEC 3+ clutch, Aluminium flywheel, pacesetter headers, F355 body kit, weight reduction

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[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 07-26-2010).]

I've decided to remount the flywheel before anything else is done.

[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 07-26-2010).]

I just read this for the 3.8 S/C engines... definitely don't want to miss... Just looking out.....

OH.. I wanted to also say that the engine sounds sweet..

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GM Press Release :

Date: March 12, 2008

Subject: Upcoming Safety Recall 07035
Potential Under hood Fire - 3.8 L Supercharged
Engine

Models: 1997-2003 Buick Regal GS
1997-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
With 3.8 L V6 Supercharged Engine (VIN1 –
RPO L67) LISTED BELOW

To: All Buick and Pontiac Dealers

Attention: Service Manager, Parts Manager, and
Warranty Administrator

Based on information from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) website, the media may report that General Motors will be announcing a safety recall involving certain 1997-2003 model year Buick Regal GS and Pontiac Grand Prix GTP vehicles equipped with a 3.8 L supercharged engine (VIN 1 – RPO L67).

These vehicles may experience an under hood fire. The fires may be caused by drops of engine oil being deposited on the exhaust manifold through hard braking. If the manifold is hot enough and the oil runs below the heat shield, it may ignite into a small flame in and in some instances the fire may spread to the plastic spark plug wire channel. Most cases have occurred five to ten minutes after the vehicle has been turned off.

If a fire occurs, it may cascade through the engine compartment causing vehicle damage and in some cases, the fire may spread to structures where the vehicle was parked.

A total of 207,542 U.S. vehicles are involved. We are currently working with our suppliers to obtain parts required to launch a safety recall in the near future. However, in the interim, a customer advisory letter (see attached) is being sent to all customers of record to inform them of this situation. This letter will also provide three important precautions the customer should take: 1) Do not park the vehicle in a garage, car port or other structure. 2) If a burning odor is detected, the customer should take their vehicle to a dealer for inspection. 3) Customers should use premium fuel (91 octane or higher) as recommended in their vehicle owner's manual. The customer letter will be mailed on March 13, 2008.

If a customer comes in with this letter or is otherwise concerned about this condition, please use Technical Service Bulletin 08-06-04-019 to service their vehicle. Please note that there are two T labor operations listed. Warranty claims should be submitted using the specific T labor operation depending on the source of the gasket (GM or aftermarket) you install in the vehicle. The use of the two T labor operations may allow GM different options when the recall is officially released. The Technical Service Bulletin 08-06-04-019 is available in SI on March 12, 2008 and is attached for your convenience.

After the repair is complete, the customer will be ableto park their car in their garage, car port or other structure.

A Frequently Asked Question and Answer document has been developed for your reference. This FAQ will help answer any customer concerns. Please see the attached Dealer FAQ's.

GMVIS information will not be available for this recall until the recall bulletin is released to dealers
************************************************** ***************************************

POTENTIAL QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

Q1: What vehicles are involved?
A1: All 1997-2003 model year Pontiac Grand Prix GTP and Buick Regal GS vehicles equipped with the 3.8-liter L67 supercharged engine. A total of 207,542 U.S. vehicles are involved.

Q2: What is the condition?
A2: These vehicles may experience an under hood fire. We believe the fire may be caused by drops of engine oil being deposited on the exhaust manifold through hard braking. If the manifold is hot enough and the oil runs below the heat shield, it may ignite into a small flame and in some instances the fire may spread to the plastic spark plug wire channel. Most cases have occurred five to 10 minutes after the vehicle has been turned off.

Q3: What are the consequences of this condition?
A3: Fire may cascade through the engine compartment causing vehicle damage. In some cases, the fire has spread to structures where the vehicles were parked.

Q4: How was this condition discovered?
A4: The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration opened a preliminary evaluation in January 2007 based on 21 customer complaints alleging engine compartment fires after their vehicles were turned off. GM began an extensive investigation.

Q5: Why didn’t GM know about this?
A5: The rate of occurrence was very low, about one in 1,000 vehicles.

Q6: Have there been any injuries or deaths resulting from this condition?
A6: We are aware of five minor injuries and one moderate injury. No fatalities.

Q7: How many fires have there been?
A7: We are aware of 267 fires to date.

Q8: What about property damage?
A8: We are aware of 17 fires involving structure damage.

Q9: What is GM doing to correct this condition?
A9: Due to parts availability, corrective action will occur in two stages. First, a "customer advisory letter" is being sent to each involved customer of record. This letter will explain the situation and provide precautionary measures that a customer can take until their vehicle is repaired. The letter will be mailed on March 13, 2008.

The second stage will be the release of Safety Recall Bulletin #07035 to all Pontiac and Buick dealers. This will occur once an adequate supply of recall parts is available. At that time, all involved customers of record will be notified via a second letter to bring their vehicle in for the required repair.

Q10: If I have one of these vehicles, is it safe to drive?
A10: Yes. Very few of the fires (about 20 percent of the reported cases) have occurred while the vehicle’s engine was running. The rate of occurrence is also very low, about one in 1,000 vehicles.

Q11: Is there anything I can do to prevent a fire after the vehicle is turned off?
A11: No.We believe the fires may be caused by drops of engine oil being deposited on the exhaust manifold through hard braking. For now we are urging customers to avoid parking their vehicles in a garage, car port or other structure and to use premium fuel (91 octane or higher) in their vehicles, as recommended in their owner’s manual. If you smell any kind of burning odor, have the vehicle inspected by a dealership service department.

Q12: The customer advisory letter mentions oil getting on the manifold during hard braking. Is there a problem with the brake system?
A12: No.

Q13: The customer advisory letter mentions premium fuel. Why is this important?
A13: Because the vehicle was designed to run on 91-octane fuel, using lower-octane fuel increases under hood temperatures during operation.

Q14: Are the 1997-2003 Pontiac Bonneville, Buick Park Avenue and Riviera, and Oldsmobile LSS involved or any vehicles with 3.8L engines without superchargers involved?
A14: No, they are not part of this field action.

Q15: Who will pay for the repairs?
A15: Repairs will be made free of charge to customers.

Q16: I heard that there were under hood fires in Chevrolet Tahoe’s. Is this the same issue?
A16: No. NHTSA opened a preliminary evaluation in February based on two customer complaints of under hood fires in 2007 model year Tahoe’s. We are cooperating with the agency but we have found no trend suggesting a recurring problem. The Tahoes and GMC Yukons being investigated are of a different architecture and were produced much later than the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP and Buick Regal GS.

Q17: Until Safety Recall Bulletin #07035 is released, what can dealers do to satisfy customers who may express a concern, or request an immediate repair?
A17: Until GM parts are available for this recall and Safety Recall Bulletin #07035 is released, GM has provided dealers with Technical Service Bulletin #08-06-04- 019.The bulletin provides repair instructions for those customers who have an immediate concern with their 1997-2003 model year Pontiac Grand Prix or Buick Regal vehicle equipped with the 3.8-liter L67 supercharged engine.

Q18: When will the GM Vehicle Inquiry System (GMVIS) be loaded?
A18: Involved VINs can not be loaded to GMVIS until Safety Recall Bulletin #07035 is released.

Q19: After completing Technical Service Bulletin #08-06-04-019, is it safe for customers to utilize parking structures?
A19: Yes.

Q20: If the parts required to perform Technical Service Bulletin #08-06-04-019are in short supply, can aftermarket parts be used to complete the repair?
A20: GM approved parts are preferred, however, for the immediate repair outlined in Technical Service Bulletin #08-06-04-019, locally obtained aftermarket parts may be used. Dealers should be sure to submit a warranty claim with the correct "T" labor operation when using aftermarket gaskets. Specific details are provided in the technical service bulletin.

Q21: If a customer had the front engine rocker cover gasket recently replaced on their 1997-2003 model year Pontiac Grand Prix or Buick Regal vehicle equipped with the 3.8-liter L67 supercharged engine, should dealers replace the front rocker cover gasket again?
A21: If the front rocker cover gasket was replaced by a General Motors dealer using GM Part #24503937, then the gasket does not need to be replaced again. The technician should complete the technical service bulletin repair by removing the spark plug channel retainer and install the spark plug retainers as outlined in the procedure. If the customer paid for the gasket replacement, there will be reimbursement instructions provided when the recall is released.

Q22: Why does the procedure only call for the replacement of the front engine rocker cover gasket and not both?
A22: GM’s investigation has not shown a need to replace the rear gasket.

Q23: An owner of an involved vehicle has concerns and requested immediate assistance. Upon inspection it is noted during the replacement of the front rocker cover gasket that the rear engine rocker cover gasket shows signs of oil seepage - should the rear gasket be replaced as well?
A23: Replacement of the rear engine rocker cover gasket is not part of the service bulletin repair procedure. Customers may wish to have the rear cover gasket repaired as part of customer paid vehicle maintenance.

Q24: Why aren’t 1997-2003 model year Pontiac Grand Prix and Buick Regal vehicles with the L36 non-supercharged engine involved in this safety recall?
A24: GM’s Investigation has shown that the supercharged engine has unique operating characteristics not present with the L36 non-supercharged engine. Specifically, the L67 supercharged engine has a significantly higher normal under hood operating temperature.

Q25: Why are two "T" labor operations listed in Technical Service Bulletin #08-06-04- 019?
A25: As detailed in the technical service bulletin, warranty claims should be submitted using the specific "T" labor operation depending on the source of the gasket used by the dealership. The use of the two "T" labor operations allows GM different options when Safety Recall Bulletin #07035 is released.

[This message has been edited by unboundmo (edited 07-26-2010).]

Thanks for the info! As I was starting to replace parts on the 3800 that service bulletin came out so I was able to replace the bad gasket to avoid any problems .

Progress!

[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 08-02-2010).]

Is that your helper?.... I had a helper too.

Haha yeah, if I could only teach her how to grab tools for me without getting slobber all over them...

Back til' monday night, got the flywheel off and it was definitely not on correctly. I'm going to be looking over some old threads to see if I can find the right size & grade of bolt that will work and hope that there are some in North Platte. Yay!

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[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 08-07-2010).]

First impression -

No more vibrations

I just took a few trips down our 1/4 mile long driveway and other than a few wiring gremlins, all I have to say is that it isn't getting a lot of traction on our gravel road . It's also VERY LOUD. Might have to do something about that second part at some time. I had heard that the setup would be loud when you get on it but didn't think it'd be that loud .

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The picture is dark and the audio cuts out at high speeds, but at least you can hear the supercharger


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[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 08-28-2010).]

So did you fix the Cyl #3 misfire? What was causing it?

Cyl 6 misfire is gone. Cyl 3's code has come back once but I can't feel it while driving. I'm going to reroute my spark plug wires to get them away from the ignition harness because I believe the EMI is causing problems. I just recently had code P0366 Crankshaft Pos. Sensor A circuit Range/Performance get thrown and one of the possible explanations I've found is running spark plug wires too close to your wiring harness. In my case I zip tied all 6 to my ignition harness not thinking that the spark plug wires could cause interference.

Overall the engine is running great! The thing that really turned the engine around was re-mounting the flywheel (was 180* off).

interesting i didnt think of that......I may reroute mine then just to be on the safe side. Glad to hear shes treatin you nice. lol

Update:

I have around 100 miles on the swap so far. I'm getting a misfire at Idle that I'm working with Sinister performance to fix (he programmed my ecm). I believe it's either a vacuum leak, dirty MAF, or incorrectly tuned ECM. Its LTFT sits at ~16 while idling and when given any gas it drops down to 0. It also seems to be fuel fouling some of the plugs if I idle it for a prolonged amount of time. I get a Random Misfire code (blinking SES) if I let the engine idle for more than a few minutes. Once I see it trip, all I have to do is raise the rpm's above idle for about 10-20 seconds and the random misfire goes away. I'm really hoping to track down a vacuum leak or dirty MAF sensor this weekend.

Thoughts on Spec Stage 4 Clutch - The springless hub design seems to be chattering quite a bit. I'm hoping that it goes away in the next hundred or two hundred miles because it's a little uncomfortable to drive it around town the way it is.

Things I've done since my last post - Installed new rotors, rebuilt calipers, and stainless steel brake lines on all four corners. Installed 3.4" pulley from ZZPerformance.

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[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 10-18-2010).]

I e-mailed Jeremy at Spec Clutch about the Stage 4 and he confirmed my suspicions:

"Jamie, A Stage 4, which uses a pucked disc and a rigid hub, is going the be the most chatter prone clutch that we build. This can get better with mileage but it is not going to ever be a smooth as the stock assembly or other full-faced disc types. Using the Stage 4+ would have made the engagement smoother because the disc is full-faced. Since you opted for the Stage 4 you can continue with the break-in process as it will get a bit better. You can also be a bit quicker about releasing the pedal, not dragging the pedal through the engagement point, as this will help improve engagement too.

J. Auvil "

I've also found out while cleaning my MAF sensor that it is the type that was designed for a 97-98 L67 (circular hole with 2 wires). I sent my ECM into Ryan Gick with the assumption that the engine was a 2000 engine. The MAF sensor for the 98 was a different design than the MAF sensor for the 2000. This may explain the strange behavior of my engine right now. I'm waiting for a confirmation from Ryan but I'm pretty sure I found the problem.

My MAF Sensor:


2000 MAF Sensor:


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[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 10-31-2010).]

quote Originally posted by JamesCurtis: I e-mailed Jeremy at Spec Clutch about the Stage 4 and he confirmed my suspicions: "Jamie, A Stage 4, which uses a pucked disc and a rigid hub, is going the be the most chatter prone clutch that we build. This can get better with mileage but it is not going to ever be a smooth as the stock assembly or other full-faced disc types. Using the Stage 4+ would have made the engagement smoother because the disc is full-faced. Since you opted for the Stage 4 you can continue with the break-in process as it will get a bit better. You can also be a bit quicker about releasing the pedal, not dragging the pedal through the engagement point, as this will help improve engagement too. J. Auvil " I've also found out while cleaning my MAF sensor that it is the type that was designed for a 97-98 L67 (circular hole with 2 wires). I sent my ECM into Ryan Gick with the assumption that the engine was a 2000 engine. The MAF sensor for the 98 was a different design than the MAF sensor for the 2000. This may explain the strange behavior of my engine right now. I'm waiting for a confirmation from Ryan but I'm pretty sure I found the problem. My MAF Sensor: 2000 MAF Sensor:

The wrong MAF will definatly cause issues.......

quote The wrong MAF will definatly cause issues.......

I would've thought that the engine would've run worse than it does. Either way that's what I get for trusting a salvage yard when they tell me the engine is from a 2000 gtp. I guess it's possible that the person who owned the engine put a 98 sensor in a 2000 car by mistake as well, but I'd put my money on the salvage yard not knowing what they had.

[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 10-31-2010).]

wow, it really has been a while!

After bashing my head against the wall to figure out why my engine has been running rough and misfiring at idle, I finally broke down and brought it in to the community college where I work at in IT. 20 minutes after they brought it in the two students who were working on it came into my office with a grin on their faces and thumbs up. They found a vacuum leak on an injector o-ring on cylinder 3 using their smoke machine. Because cylinder 3 and 6 share a coil, they and the 2nd year auto instructor guessed that cylinder 3 was consuming most of the voltage from the spark so that cylinder 6 was getting robbed of spark. I had originally thought that since I installed the newly professionally cleaned injectors with new o-rings, there wouldn't be a problem there. While installing an injector it must not've seated properly as there was a large slit in the bottom o-ring.

Now that that's taken care of, I must say that it idles a lot better and cylinder 6 is no longer fluid fouling. I still have a nagging misfire on both cylinders 3 and 6 now though at idle, with 3 now being worse than 6. The misfire comes and goes on different days. Somedays I can drive and idle the engine just fine with no misfire counts, other days the MIL is lit and I have some pretty high current misfire counts. Either way I'm glad that it's acting much more like a proper engine with the vacuum leak fixed.

Thank god it's summer out, driving the s/c 3800 around for the first time in summer is such an amazing experience.

quote Now that that's taken care of, I must say that it idles a lot better and cylinder 6 is no longer fluid fouling. I still have a nagging misfire on both cylinders 3 and 6 now though at idle, with 3 now being worse than 6. The misfire comes and goes on different days. Somedays I can drive and idle the engine just fine with no misfire counts, other days the MIL is lit and I have some pretty high current misfire counts. Either way I'm glad that it's acting much more like a proper engine with the vacuum leak fixed.

Hey check your 3/6 coil! I have certainly seen it cause these exact symptoms before.

Good luck!

EDIT: I even have a couple laying around the shop I could send you for whatever shipping would be for a little coil.

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'86 SE -- Long Gone.....
'88 GT -- On Going L32 Conversion.....

[This message has been edited by 86SE (edited 05-12-2011).]

Thanks for the offer 86SE, I have a coil in the trunk I purchased just in case I needed to replace one. I'll give that a shot once I get ok'd by the doctor to work on a car. Threw my back out a few weeks ago while jogging and pinched the nerve that controls my right leg. That nerve can make things pretty painful and numb .

[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 05-13-2011).]

Quick update: I'm in the process of closing on a house with a 3 car garage. Right now the garage at my rental is only big enough to park the fiero in. As soon as I move into the new house, I'm probably going to pull the cradle and do a couple things while I have it out such as relocate the map, delete the egr, and get the evap solenoid hooked up. I am hoping that a job I'm interviewing for will come through. If it does I will have A LOT more disposable income coming my way which would probably result in an NIC cam, WO2 sensor, and tuning kit. Thanks to everyone who has followed this thread so far, it should be reaching a conclusion in the next 6 months.

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Well I have the rear cylinder head off and will work on the front one tomorrow. I've found that the exhaust valve stem on cyl#2 was damaged at some time in its life and the exhaust manifold on that cylinder was very black with soot compared to cyl #4 and #6 on that head. Here are the pics:

Cyl Head (6/4/2)


Exhaust Valve #2

Both heads had cracks in them between the intake and exhaust valves. It seemed like the cylinders that were affected had two cracks per cylinder. In my research I've found that 97/98 3800's were prone to cracks between the valves. I'll have invested more rebuilding this engine than I invested purchasing it whole from the salvage yard.

Lesson learned: Get a compression test done while the engine is still under the salvage yard's warranty. This engine supposedly had 170psi on all cylinders from the salvage yard.

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[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 07-01-2013).]

I've finally gathered all of the parts I needed to get the head problem fixed.




I hope to have it all put back together this weekend. I wish I had enough space to drop the cradle to do this, getting to the front exhaust manifold looks like it's going to be a pain.

On Tuesday, it will have been three years since the first time my engine swap fired up. Since then there have been more disappointments and, "it has to be fixed now!" moments than I would like to admit. I recently took the engine out of the car again and have found some things that humbled me. I have been blaming bad luck and a number of other problems when all this time I now believe the problem was me. My lack of attention to detail and foolhardy methods of putting the car back together in poor conditions (no space and little light) have resulted in a number of problems that have all resulted in a car that I didn't want to drive. I have found these problems and hope to resolve all of my issues when I put the car together this time. I would like to thank everyone in this thread who has helped me get to where I am today. I probably would have sold my Fiero by now if you hadn't all helped me along the way. I think it's time for me to stop shooting myself in the foot and take things a little more seriously with a lot more care and attention to detail. Thanks everyone, my rant is over, now back to our normal routine .

[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 08-06-2012).]

Another bump to keep this out of the archives.

Here are some developments since the last picture I posted two posts up in chronological order:

• Had back surgery to fix herniated l5-s1 disc 2 weeks before I - (read next item)
  
• Got Married
  
• Bought a House
  
• Removed the cradle again due to metallic scraping noise proportional to car speed
  
• Took transmission into shop, they replaced both differential bearings and told me they were absolutely toast due to corrosion and pitting
  
• Purchased a Phonedawgz wiring harness (This looks so much more professional than mine!)
  
• Replaced WCF Thermostat Housing that they shipped me with pinholes in the hose connectors that were prone to leaks - I'm done with this vendor. Their quality control and customer service have both let me down big time. I never called them about the thermostat housing because I was tired of the guy on the line trying to blame everything on me.
  
• Replaced Purple Reign's Front transmission mount due to me being an idiot and over-torquing a nut ruining the threads. Rodney's stock poly bushing was a good replacement.
  
• Took off Mike Gonzalez's vacuum tree cover and replaced it with stock vacuum tree to get more vacuum sources to add the evap system back onto my car

I have a few things left to do including re-installing the evap can and solenoid as well as deleting the front battery kit and replacing the vacuum lines. In taking the car apart this time I noticed that the vacuum connectors that came with the engine were splitting when the vacuum lines were inserted into them. My attempts to find a stock replacement have not worked out so I believe I'll just run new rubber vacuum lines.

I met a few cool people at the 30th show and took a ton of pictures of L67 swaps to get ideas on how to finish tidying up my car and where to put the cruise control module when I decide to install that on my car since I opted for that feature with Phonedawgz' new wiring harness. I'll try to get some work done tomorrow and take some pictures to give you a feeling of where this project stands now. Here's a picture that was taken a little over a year ago, unfortunately not much has changed since then.



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[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 07-01-2013).]

I'm glad I caught this before I went to fire it up. I'm not sure how it happened but I did a good job of slicing it, that's for sure.

Now get out there and enjoy it!

Great news!

I ran the fiero for a good 15 minutes at idle and had no history of a misfire on any of the 6 cylinders. My LTFT numbers are below 10 at idle as well. This is completely contradictory to how the engine ran when I was displeased with it. I am still having problems with the cooling and have some work to do before it's road worthy. I did go get it registered today so there is nothing legally holding the car back from driving down the street .

About the cooling problem:

I found out today that the old fiero coolant temp gauge can become inaccurate just by sitting. The needle gets to 100* and doesn't go any further. There's a chance that the needle has slipped due to the 12v on ignition issue that I haven't fixed. Watching the ECT PID through my data logger, I found out that the fan comes on at 187* and it stays on... forever. The engine temperature continues to rise to 194* and fluctuates up to 196* while sometimes it would drop to 190*. Could this still be air in the system? I have followed GM's coolant fill procedure to the T.

Thank you all for sticking with me, I believe this long trip through engine swap blues is about to be over with .

[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 07-08-2013).]

This will be the last update unless something major happens regarding the swap. I drove my car to work today and I think that signifies an end to this thread. I have a few odds and ends to do such as re-routing the battery cables and securing the battery and fixing the cooling issue. At some point I would like to implement cruise control and a/c as well but that is down the road and may be a winter project. Thank you all for sticking with me through this. I see many happy days driving the fiero ahead of me!

[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 07-10-2013).]

That's hilarious, no fiero is ever "complete." You'll be back, with updates..

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Build thread for my 88 + 3800NA swap