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$100 brake upgrade by Phil
Started on: 04-04-2006 08:37 AM
Replies: 419 (53295 views)
Last post by: Kevin87FieroGT on 11-21-2020 07:18 PM
85GT_3800SC
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Report this Post02-18-2012 06:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85GT_3800SCClick Here to Email 85GT_3800SCSend a Private Message to 85GT_3800SCEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have been watching this thread for a while now. What a great brake upgrade this is! Thanks to Phil for coming up with this idea and to his and everyone else’s posts that helped me complete my own booster installation. I did the upgrade last summer and the results are impressive. I have the Grand Am front brake upgrade with a 1994 full size Blazer master cylinder and stock rear brakes. Before installing the larger booster, I replaced all rotors (with slotted) and calipers, installed ss braided lines all around and new carbo-met brake pads. I would say the brakes were good with this much done, but with the booster upgrade, now they are great. Much less pedal effort! I am happy with the upgrade but like other members on the forum, I want to install a brand new unit for peace of mind. I was all set to buy one of Rodney’s ready-to-go boosters, but he has ended the larger booster project for some reason. This post is for those who are looking for more of a ready-made solution.

While looking for a new booster to modify, I came across this item from Summit racing.


It looked familiar so I went to the Tuff Stuff website for more info and found this


Both sites showed that these boosters would fit 1973 – 1993 GM trucks. That sure increases the number of boosters that might be available in wrecking yards! But I was looking for a new/rebuilt booster.

Well, long story short, since the booster looked like a match for the upgrade, I ordered one of these from Summit and it arrived yesterday. It is the exact same size booster as the one I used from a 96 s10 on my booster upgrade. Here is what it looks like:


The only differences are not bad ones. The pushrod is a whopping 5/8” diameter, is much longer than the s10 pushrod, and it has a 3/8”NC thread on the rod end.


The bolt patterns match and a new booster to master cylinder rod is included


The pushrod is closer to the correct length to fit the Fiero. An extension to the rod end is still required. My extension uses a lock washer, a 3/8” NC coupling nut, a homemade adapter bolt (coarse to fine thread),a jam nut and a rod end I had that was 3/8”NF thread (will likely need to drill the rod end 3/8” hole out to fit the brake pedal pin).


The mounting bracket that came with the new booster is unusable on the Fiero, and must be removed. Here’s the new booster with bracket removed and the pushrod all together.


I will be putting it in on the next “warmer” day we have here in the “Great White North”. I don’t foresee any problems but will report back after the install.
While not directly plug and play like Rodney’s was going to be, I think this booster offers a rugged upgrade option with a minimal amount of work required. The cost of $125 from Summit does not require a core to be sent back.

[This message has been edited by 85GT_3800SC (edited 02-18-2012).]

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mattwa
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Report this Post02-18-2012 07:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sweet, good to see another source. I do like the 5/8" pushrod and longer length, but I guess the real question would be is that worth the extra cost. But the added cost might be the difference of remanufactured and "brand new". We bought our remanufactured booster from Rockauto for $99 including a $30 core charge and shipping. This booster looks great, considering I was just planning to pull one from a junkyard for $10 but decided not to.
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Report this Post02-19-2012 11:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 85GT_3800SC:

I have been watching this thread for a while now. What a great brake upgrade this is! Thanks to Phil for coming up with this idea . I was all set to buy one of Rodney’s ready-to-go boosters, but he has ended the larger booster project for some reason.



For the moment I have decided to not pursue the larger brake boosters. I have had several people tell me I could be sued even if the booster change was not at fault by someone that was in an accident. All thru the process of developing this booster and getting the sample test boosters made I always have had a terrible amount of anxiety worrying about being litigated. I received the test boosters and send three out to people (at no charge) that I selected. 2 were ME's and one was a person that works on many Fieros and had told me a few times to not do this. So I sent him one to try. A few weeks went by and no one emailed me even saying they received their test booster I sent them. What a let down. So I emailed all three and they told me they did receive them and would install them and let me know. I previously had emailed them and stated that I wanted them to first look at the critical dimensions etc before they installed them. This showed me they were not even paying attention and I felt they did not really want to help me with the R&D. I could send them to anyone to just install and test. I sent them to people I thought would be thorough in looking at them. So after that I lost all interest in this project.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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85GT_3800SC
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Report this Post02-19-2012 04:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85GT_3800SCClick Here to Email 85GT_3800SCSend a Private Message to 85GT_3800SCEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I totally understand the liability worries.Even if it looks like the perfect upgrade, there's always some obscure chance of somebody trying to find a reason to sue. And with the prototype testing not unfolding as planned, leaving you with little or no R&D data, well that would make me a bit nervous too.I hope the project can still fly sometime in the future but if not, thanks for trying and proving once again how dedicated you are to the Fiero community!
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85GT_3800SC
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Report this Post02-20-2012 04:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85GT_3800SCClick Here to Email 85GT_3800SCSend a Private Message to 85GT_3800SCEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It made it to a balmy 40 degrees today so I decided to go out and swap the boosters. After I got the s10 booster out, I layed it side by side with the "Tuff Stuff" booster for comparison.The bodies are identical. Only the pushrods differ.


Here is a shot from above with the old booster removed.The shiny black area is where the sheetmetal needs to be adjusted to fit the larger booster.


Here is the new booster installed. There were no fitment problems.


All that was left was to adjust and attach the pedal rod.Measuring from the booster back body to the center of the rod end hole, I found that 9 3/8" was about right (as found by other members) but fine tuning can be done with the threaded connections if needed.


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Report this Post02-20-2012 05:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I installed my big S-10/Blazer brake booster today. Can't test it yet because there isn't a cradle in it yet.



Edit: I do like the thicker pushrod of that booster, very nice.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 02-20-2012).]

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Blacktree
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Report this Post02-20-2012 05:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney: For the moment I have decided to not pursue the larger brake boosters. I have had several people tell me I could be sued even if the booster change was not at fault by someone that was in an accident. All thru the process of developing this booster and getting the sample test boosters made I always have had a terrible amount of anxiety worrying about being litigated. I received the test boosters and send three out to people (at no charge) that I selected. 2 were ME's and one was a person that works on many Fieros and had told me a few times to not do this. So I sent him one to try. A few weeks went by and no one emailed me even saying they received their test booster I sent them. What a let down. So I emailed all three and they told me they did receive them and would install them and let me know. I previously had emailed them and stated that I wanted them to first look at the critical dimensions etc before they installed them. This showed me they were not even paying attention and I felt they did not really want to help me with the R&D. I could send them to anyone to just install and test. I sent them to people I thought would be thorough in looking at them. So after that I lost all interest in this project.

That's regrettable.

I hope I'm not one of the people you mentioned above. I don't think I am, but just curious.

Thanks for being up-front with us, though. That's really appreciated.
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Report this Post02-20-2012 05:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Blacktree

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quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

I installed my big S-10/Blazer brake booster today. Can't test it yet because there isn't a cradle in it yet.

http://i67.photobucket.com/..._20120220_154042.jpg

Edit: I do like the thicker pushrod of that booster, very nice.


Hey Matt, you may want to paint that booster. That's bare metal. It will start to rust quickly. While surface rust won't hurt the booster, it will look ugly.

Just FYI.
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85GT_3800SC
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Report this Post02-20-2012 06:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85GT_3800SCClick Here to Email 85GT_3800SCSend a Private Message to 85GT_3800SCEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

I installed my big S-10/Blazer brake booster today. Can't test it yet because there isn't a cradle in it yet.
Edit: I do like the thicker pushrod of that booster, very nice.



You will enjoy that upgrade! It really gives a lot of bang for the buck. I like the look of the thicker pushrod too, even if it is overkill.For anybody who might be interested,
I looked up the booster I installed using the application data from Summit and found this at A!-Cardone - part #54-71046.


It's for a 1993 Blazer.This looks like the one needed for the booster upgrade too,and it has a longer pushrod which would make modifying it a bit easier.

[This message has been edited by 85GT_3800SC (edited 02-20-2012).]

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Report this Post02-20-2012 06:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:


Hey Matt, you may want to paint that booster. That's bare metal. It will start to rust quickly. While surface rust won't hurt the booster, it will look ugly.

Just FYI.


Oh now you tell me!! Lol, alright, thanks, I will. Not removing it for that though.
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Report this Post02-22-2012 08:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:


For the moment I have decided to not pursue the larger brake boosters. I have had several people tell me I could be sued even if the booster change was not at fault by someone that was in an accident. All thru the process of developing this booster and getting the sample test boosters made I always have had a terrible amount of anxiety worrying about being litigated. I received the test boosters and send three out to people (at no charge) that I selected. 2 were ME's and one was a person that works on many Fieros and had told me a few times to not do this. So I sent him one to try. A few weeks went by and no one emailed me even saying they received their test booster I sent them. What a let down. So I emailed all three and they told me they did receive them and would install them and let me know. I previously had emailed them and stated that I wanted them to first look at the critical dimensions etc before they installed them. This showed me they were not even paying attention and I felt they did not really want to help me with the R&D. I could send them to anyone to just install and test. I sent them to people I thought would be thorough in looking at them. So after that I lost all interest in this project.



This is so sad. I was ready to pay you just to be able to get one of these test units. Can't beleive people volunteering and not coming forward. Not good for our hobbie supplier and we all loose. As for the suing part I guess anyone can sue you even for the lowering ball joints. I see more failure possibility there than in a stock booster with a longer rod. Oh well. Hope you please keep up other projects.
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Report this Post03-03-2012 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for InfinityClick Here to Email InfinitySend a Private Message to InfinityEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Interesting topic,

my brake works normal but a little more help wouldnt hold me not to try, because of the large shippings from US to EU i will try find one from a Chevy S10 in Netherlands, they were commonly sold here so finding one shouldnt be a big issue.

also sad to read that testpersons doesnt mee the requirements for such a nice project, just these projects keep more a need with us old cars ;-)
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Report this Post03-12-2012 01:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EngineerBillClick Here to visit EngineerBill's HomePageClick Here to Email EngineerBillSend a Private Message to EngineerBillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
To go along with the more ready made solution, there is also a Tough Stuff Brake Booster Extension Rod & Clevis Kit that fits with the Tough Stuff Brake Booster 2232N.

I found the kit at Summit:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFF-4750

As of today, it is $39.95. A little pricey but ready made. It comes in 3 lengths:

1.5", 2.5" and 4.75"

I'm not sure which one would be the one to use.

What was the length extension you added to the Tough One, 85GT_3800SC, to make it about 9 3/8" total?

------------------
Engineer Bill

EngineerBill.com

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85GT_3800SC
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Report this Post03-12-2012 08:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 85GT_3800SCClick Here to Email 85GT_3800SCSend a Private Message to 85GT_3800SCEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Actually, the TuffStuff extension kit is the exact one I got my rod end from.That kit has the 3 different length options included.
Amazingly, all rod ends in that kit are threaded 3/8 NF, but the thread on the booster they sell is 3/8 coarse thread! Unbelievable!!
I was quite disappointed to find this out after buying the kit, but rather than return it (shipping would be half the cost of the kit from where I live),
I used a 3/8 NC coupling nut,and the shortest rod end with an adapter I made up from a 2" NC bolt. I just cut the head off the bolt and threaded the 1" smooth part with a 3/8 NF die.Basically a course to fine 3/8 adapter.All I used out of the extension kit was the small rod end which had the wrong thread and had to be drilled out to fit the brake pedal pin, so that cost me $40. For that price, you could probably find a cheaper way to make up a rod end.
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Report this Post03-13-2012 10:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for seajaiSend a Private Message to seajaiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
WOW! what a difference the booster upgrade makes in braking performance! I think my retinas detached the first time I stomped on the brakes. TFS SS braided hoses are next, then I gotta save up the dough for the 13" rotor upgrade.
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Report this Post09-03-2012 06:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am going to make an adaptor plate as i have failed to mount it have dented it a bit to mount it so hopefully i haven't destroyed one i have but i am mounting it into a RHD car so will let you know when it is in properly. It is in car now just not right.
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Report this Post09-03-2012 09:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
From what I have seen the banjo from the Fiero master can be removed and installed in the S-10 booster. I have 300 HD larger diameter banjos I had made for the booster I was going to make. I will sell them if anyone needs one when I have them on hand. This requires that you take the S-10 booster apart and do the swap. If that Tough Stuff Brake Booster 2232N works I can make an adjustable banjo kit that fits.
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Report this Post10-09-2012 11:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for j bf1Click Here to Email j bf1Send a Private Message to j bf1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any updates
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Report this Post10-09-2012 05:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85GT_3800SCClick Here to Email 85GT_3800SCSend a Private Message to 85GT_3800SCEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Update : After driving my car all summer with the "Tuff Stuff" booster installed, I found no problems with the booster / braking on my Fiero. Like others who have done this, I have to agree - the mod is well worth doing! The braking capability is really good now.

Rodney posted " If that Tough Stuff Brake Booster 2232N works I can make an adjustable banjo kit that fits."

I certainly would have been interested in that! Maybe others will be too. It would make the whole mod a complete bolt-on.
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Report this Post10-09-2012 08:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 85GT_3800SC:

It would make the whole mod a complete bolt-on.


There is allready a complete bolt on bigger booster.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/060500.html
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Report this Post02-05-2013 11:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroCustomClick Here to visit FieroCustom's HomePageClick Here to Email FieroCustomSend a Private Message to FieroCustomEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am pleased with the results of this swap.

------------------
John
1955 Chevrolet 210 Sedan (Shopping list in progress)
1988 SE seized duke...next engine...1996 LQ1 found
~Future 1990 Fiero Clone?
1988 T-Top Coupe rocking 41 MPG!
1986 SE Project Mayhem
1999 F350 Crew Dually ~17mpg city 22 hwy
Wife's 2001 Saturn SL1 51MPG high score

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Report this Post02-06-2013 07:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pprbart@cs.comClick Here to Email pprbart@cs.comSend a Private Message to pprbart@cs.comEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Professionals in the engineering of brakes say a larger booster will just give you less pedal effort. it will not stop your car quicker. Most recommend larger caliper pistons, better pads, and larger rotors. The booster has only a limited travel in its design and once the travel is completed its up to the rest of the system to work better. The interior diaphram has a design limit on its movement, period. Look at any cross section.
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Report this Post02-06-2013 07:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Purple86GTClick Here to Email Purple86GTSend a Private Message to Purple86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pprbart@cs.com:

Professionals in the engineering of brakes say a larger booster will just give you less pedal effort. it will not stop your car quicker. Most recommend larger caliper pistons, better pads, and larger rotors. The booster has only a limited travel in its design and once the travel is completed its up to the rest of the system to work better. The interior diaphram has a design limit on its movement, period. Look at any cross section.


That is correct, but there is less human effort. Some of us were not able to acheive max clamping pressure without having 2 feet on the pedal. This will not resolve brake fade. I still feel this is a good upgrade. Upgrading the rest (braded lines, bigger rotors, quality pads and better calipers) is also a good idea.

[This message has been edited by Purple86GT (edited 02-06-2013).]

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Report this Post02-06-2013 02:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Purple86GT:
That is correct, but there is less human effort. Some of us were not able to acheive max clamping pressure without having 2 feet on the pedal. This will not resolve brake fade. I still feel this is a good upgrade. Upgrading the rest (braded lines, bigger rotors, quality pads and better calipers) is also a good idea.

Most times means old booster or vac line to it has problems, brake system has problems, etc.
Far too many cases Bigger booster is a Band-Aid that hides other problems.

Often Fixing an old car's brakes is not cheap or easy.
I have restored my OE brakes and I can easily stop w/ one foot. Good or better than then car was new.
Good thing since my car uses left foot gas pedal (example)
The cost? $500 to 600, likely more I didn't save all the receipts. Some highlights...
Front... New rotors wheel bearings and seals, ThermoQuiet pads, new rubber hoses and crush washers/seals. The front calipers were okay.
Rear... New rotors, ThermoQuiet pads, new rubber lines and crush washers/seals, DIY rebuilt calipers with new pistons. New parking brake cables for both wheels, main cable was okay. (Fortunately my car doesn't have the rust problem that many people do...)
I replace the master cylinder when it died six years ago.
A quart or two of good DOT4 fluid.
87 L4 Doesn't use the booster filter. I did check the booster's check valve and vac line to make sure it was clean and working.

Compared Fiero brakes performance to most any other cars built at the same time or even now, Many had stopping distance are the same or very close to Fiero. Fiero brakes was not design for Racing etc... Only to stop a cheap commuter car which Fiero really is.
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Report this Post02-06-2013 02:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Purple86GTClick Here to Email Purple86GTSend a Private Message to Purple86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:


Compared Fiero brakes performance to most any other cars built at the same time or even now, Many had stopping distance are the same or very close to Fiero. Fiero brakes was not design for Racing etc... Only to stop a cheap commuter car which Fiero really is.


This is why we are doing upgrades. I'm swapping a 3800SC engine and have wheels that are bigger and wider than what the Fiero was designed for. A bit more stopping power would eb a good idea. The booster in my opinion is a good swap if used on a healthybrake system and it would also be a good idea to upgrade some components. I have rear grand-am setup right now. I'm thinking of doing all 4 corners with Grand-AM brakes.
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Report this Post02-25-2013 12:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Curtisk1060Click Here to Email Curtisk1060Send a Private Message to Curtisk1060Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks!, this is excactly the articles and links I was searching for. Curtis
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Report this Post04-30-2014 09:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I got mine from sardonyx247

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/060500.html

I put mine in on Wednesday and I could tell a difference. I didn't think it was "night and day" different but it was better. I wasn't disappointed but also wasn't thrilled. Then the next day, I was talking to another Fiero guy and he brought up the subject of rear calipers and the need to use the parking brake periodically to keep the brakes adjusted. That got me thinking.....

So, I went out and pulled my e-brake and let it back off again. I had not used it in a while because I didn't want the brakes to freeze up through the winter. Then I went driving and that is when the magic happened! Now I see what everyone was talking about! Now I agree, "night and day" difference for sure! Very glad I did this mod!

I did have a few problems. Nothing major really, just me not doing everything in the right order and remembering stuff. I did cut down the four bolts on the booster that point toward the firewall as installed. They would have made tightening the mounting nuts EXTREMELY difficult if I had not done it.



Speaking of tightening the mounting nuts, you really don't want to start this swap unless you have a ratcheting box-end wrench. In fact, two would be better. You need a 15mm and a 13mm. A set of four metric ratcheting wrenches can be had at China Freight for reasonable money. Just so you know, you will need a 10mm wrench also to remove the screw that holds the brace between the booster and the distribution block thing that the brake lines run out of.



To make the dent in the fender wall, I cut about 5 inches off a leather belt and taped it over the balled end of a ball peen hammer. Then I wacked the crap out of the fender. I think it minimized the damage.

I had to cut my white plastic tube that covers the rubber bellows and fits into the firewall. I could not get it to slide far enough onto the bellows so I had to cut about 3/4" off. There is a step moulded into it there and that is where I cut it.

Let me warn you to be sure to remember to put the little metal rod in that faces toward the master cylinder! Every time I had to adjust something, that piece would fall out and I'd set it aside and then forget it when I was putting the booster back in. Grrrrrr!

Another thing you need to know is that the fitting where you connect your vacuum hose is an incorrect larger size. The good news is that this is just a press-in part that you can pull out by hand and then re-use the one from the original booster.

The last thing I should inform you of is the brake lights issue. When you are doing this work and you remove the rod from the brake pedal, there will be nothing holding the pedal in its normal upward resting position. Therefore, it will be hanging downward toward the floor and firewall. The car thinks the brake pedal has your foot on it pressing it forward and that turns the brake lights on. And keeps them on! I don't know how long I worked before I walked behind the car and noticed the lights on. I disconnected the battery to solve that problem. These are the two switches that are activated by the brake pedal. One is for the brake lights and the other is for the cruise control.



My only on-going problem is that I disturbed a white plastic switch under the dash when I was under there putting the rod onto the brake pedal. Now my cruise control will not engage. Can anyone tell me how to re-set that piece or give me any information on what my problem might be? That would be appreciated.

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 05-01-2014).]

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dcarrd
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Report this Post05-30-2014 07:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dcarrdSend a Private Message to dcarrdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the whole post was a great read, arguments and all lol..
Any updates on reliability, durability, performance??
Did Rodney ever make the adjustable banjo kit?
Is anyone still modifying these?
Has anyone tried different brake component setups with the booster? determined which works better?

Currently my brakes are stock but Im looking to do the Grand Am upgrade unless the booster alone matches the GA swap...
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Report this Post05-31-2014 12:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Boostdreamer:

My only on-going problem is that I disturbed a whte plastic switch under the dash when I was under there putting the rod onto the brake pedal. Now my cruise control will not engage. Can anyone tell me how to re-set that piece or give me any information on what my problem might be? That would be appreciated.



That white plastic piece has a plunger at the end that contacts the brake pedal. When the brake is off (pedal at rest), the plunger is pressed in. When the brake is applied, the brake pedal moves away from the plunger and the plunger is out (dis-engaging your cruise control). It sounds like your plunger is out and the plunger thinks your brake is on, so it is turning off your cruise control. With your brake pedal off (at rest), push the white plastic fitting into its holder as far as it will go. This should allow the plunger to press against the brake pedal, allowing your cruise control to turn on.

By the way, you should try to "panic stop" after you install the bigger booster. When i tried mine, i got resistance from the brake pedal - it would not press down for about a second. I was not comfortable with this, so i upgraded to the bigger master cylinder and it solved the problem.

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 05-31-2014).]

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Report this Post05-31-2014 04:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for I FAR ISend a Private Message to I FAR IEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What part # or parts vehicle did you use for the bigger master cylinder?

Thanks

 
quote
Originally posted by PaulJK:


That white plastic piece has a plunger at the end that contacts the brake pedal. When the brake is off (pedal at rest), the plunger is pressed in. When the brake is applied, the brake pedal moves away from the plunger and the plunger is out (dis-engaging your cruise control). It sounds like your plunger is out and the plunger thinks your brake is on, so it is turning off your cruise control. With your brake pedal off (at rest), push the white plastic fitting into its holder as far as it will go. This should allow the plunger to press against the brake pedal, allowing your cruise control to turn on.

By the way, you should try to "panic stop" after you install the bigger booster. When i tried mine, i got resistance from the brake pedal - it would not press down for about a second. I was not comfortable with this, so i upgraded to the bigger master cylinder and it solved the problem.



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Report this Post06-01-2014 01:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by I FAR I:

What part # or parts vehicle did you use for the bigger master cylinder?

Thanks



Buy the master cylinder that matches whichever booster you bought. In my case, I bought the booster for the S10 so i also got the MC for the S10.

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 06-01-2014).]

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quote
Originally posted by dcarrd:

the whole post was a great read, arguments and all lol..
Any updates on reliability, durability, performance??


I have ran the bigger booster for years with ZERO problems.


 
quote
Originally posted by dcarrd:
Did Rodney ever make the adjustable banjo kit?


No
Would you really want a threaded rod over a solid one? These are your brakes we are talking about here.


 
quote
Originally posted by dcarrd:
Is anyone still modifying these?


Yes, I am, you can get one here http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/060500.html


 
quote
Originally posted by dcarrd:
Has anyone tried different brake component setups with the booster? determined which works better?


The booster works with ALL other brake upgrades and setups


 
quote
Originally posted by dcarrd:
Currently my brakes are stock but Im looking to do the Grand Am upgrade unless the booster alone matches the GA swap...


The GA swap will help get rid of brake fade, has the same size rotors(but vented), a little bigger piston. Not that noticable braking wise, but the lack of fade is.


 
quote
Originally posted by PaulJK:
By the way, you should try to "panic stop" after you install the bigger booster. When i tried mine, i got resistance from the brake pedal - it would not press down for about a second. I was not comfortable with this, so i upgraded to the bigger master cylinder and it solved the problem.


You had other problems, the booster did NOT cause that. Prob a bad master in the first place.


 
quote
Originally posted by PaulJK:
Buy the master cylinder that matches whichever booster you bought. In my case, I bought the booster for the S10 so i also got the MC for the S10.


That is not the right way to do it, you ONLY want to go with a bigger master IF you have bigger calipers and they need more fluid to move. See the Orge's cave.
A bigger master will decrease the pressure to the calipers. Again see the Orge's cave.

------------------
"DRIVE IT LIKE A FIERO"
'84 Fiero, engine to be determined '87 Duke (Sold)
'87 Quad 4 H.O.
'87Blue GT 3.4L Swap Completed!!!!!!!! Boosted!!!!!!!
^^^^ Now in the Construction Zone^^^^
Las Vegas Fiero Club Parts/Sales/Service/Club
Fiero Road Club Of Northern Nevada

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Report this Post06-01-2014 04:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:



quote
Originally posted by dcarrd:

the whole post was a great read, arguments and all lol..
Any updates on reliability, durability, performance??


I have ran the bigger booster for years with ZERO problems.



quote
Originally posted by dcarrd:
Did Rodney ever make the adjustable banjo kit?


No
Would you really want a threaded rod over a solid one? These are your brakes we are talking about here.



quote
Originally posted by dcarrd:
Is anyone still modifying these?


Yes, I am, you can get one here http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/060500.html



quote
Originally posted by dcarrd:
Has anyone tried different brake component setups with the booster? determined which works better?


The booster works with ALL other brake upgrades and setups



quote
Originally posted by dcarrd:
Currently my brakes are stock but Im looking to do the Grand Am upgrade unless the booster alone matches the GA swap...


The GA swap will help get rid of brake fade, has the same size rotors(but vented), a little bigger piston. Not that noticable braking wise, but the lack of fade is.



quote
Originally posted by PaulJK:
By the way, you should try to "panic stop" after you install the bigger booster. When i tried mine, i got resistance from the brake pedal - it would not press down for about a second. I was not comfortable with this, so i upgraded to the bigger master cylinder and it solved the problem.


You had other problems, the booster did NOT cause that. Prob a bad master in the first place.



quote
Originally posted by PaulJK:
Buy the master cylinder that matches whichever booster you bought. In my case, I bought the booster for the S10 so i also got the MC for the S10.


That is not the right way to do it, you ONLY want to go with a bigger master IF you have bigger calipers and they need more fluid to move. See the Orge's cave.
A bigger master will decrease the pressure to the calipers. Again see the Orge's cave.
That is not the right way to do it, you ONLY want to go with a bigger master IF you have bigger calipers and they need more fluid to move. See the Orge's cave.
A bigger master will decrease the pressure to the calipers. Again see the Orge's cave.



Wow, sounds like you know a lot more than everybody including my car and you never even saw it (the master cylinder i took off was less than a year old & i made no other changes, ONLY changing the MCs) !

I posted what WORKED for me.

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 06-01-2014).]

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quote
Originally posted by PaulJK:


Wow, sounds like you know a lot more than everybody including my car and you never even saw it (the master cylinder i took off was less than a year old & i made no other changes, ONLY changing the MCs) !

I posted what WORKED for me.



The master size is one of the great debates on this thread right here. See early pages.
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Report this Post06-03-2014 07:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Amazing. I left the house at 1:30, went to the U-pull yard, got a like new Booster from a '96 S10 ($20), came home, & installed it. (It is now 7:30) So, How easy was that ?!. The difference is "Night and Day". I needed 2 feet to stop it before, now I have to be care full I don't throw my self through the windshield !
I Highly recommend this upgrade. ( now I'll have to go get another booster for my other fiero) Thanks to all you guys for documenting the swap !
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Report this Post06-04-2014 01:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:
Amazing. I left the house at 1:30, went to the U-pull yard, got a like new Booster from a '96 S10 ($20), came home, & installed it. (It is now 7:30) So, How easy was that ?!. The difference is "Night and Day". I needed 2 feet to stop it before, now I have to be care full I don't throw my self through the windshield !
I Highly recommend this upgrade. ( now I'll have to go get another booster for my other fiero) Thanks to all you guys for documenting the swap !

Comparing dead booster, likely other brake parts bad too, to good booster is proof to what exactly?
"I needed 2 feet to stop it" is High Effort problem and often a sign Booster is bad and/or vac line to it have issues. Can be iffy pads, iffy/bad MC, or bad calipers too.
"now I have to be care full I don't throw my self through the windshield !" Some like this. Many will hate it. Over boosting is a problem to many. Over boost can made brakes that are very hard modulate when stopping in rain, on snow dirt etc.
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quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Comparing dead booster, likely other brake parts bad too, to good booster is proof to what exactly?
"I needed 2 feet to stop it" is High Effort problem and often a sign Booster is bad and/or vac line to it have issues. Can be iffy pads, iffy/bad MC, or bad calipers too.
"now I have to be care full I don't throw my self through the windshield !" Some like this. Many will hate it. Over boosting is a problem to many. Over boost can made brakes that are very hard modulate when stopping in rain, on snow dirt etc.


I hear exactly what you are saying. but....
I had good stock brakes before the booster upgrade (I went through everything, SS lines, different ,stock, boosters, calipers don't stick slide nice, ebrake adjusts on first swing, new MC) and it just didn't seem right, good high firm pedal, but when I needed to stop NOW I had to stand on it, otherwise daily driving, they worked fine, everyone who drove my car (other Fiero owners) said I had great brakes. (BTW the biggest improvement was getting the E-brake to adjust, IIRC I had to replace a caliper) I was happy after that and all was fine but the more I drove newer cars the more I keep thinking something was wrong with the Fiero. I had allready swaped to drilled and slotted rotors, that got rid of ALL the brake fade, I swaped on the GA swap up front (as it was on another Fiero in the yard so cost was zero)
Not untill I swapped to the bigger booster was I really satified with the Fiero brakes.

When people buy/ask about a booster, I usally tell them to adjust the e-brake and make sure the system is in working order before hand. I agree with you I don't want the booster being a band aid/masking other problems. But the bigger booster is REAL NICE, you get used to it and can modulate the brakes just fine. What is scarry is haveing good stock brakes, standing on it as the dumb@#$ in front of you doesn't have brake lights and you notice late and worry if you can stop in time.

And, ok I will put this in caps, IF YOU CAN LOCK UP YOUR TIRES, YOU NEED BETTER TIRES, PERIOD!!!

Now look at where the booster comes from, an S10, Do you know the S10 comes with 3 different size boosters.?. Same vehicle, but the duke S10 only has a single diaphram booster, the 2.8L S10 has a Fiero size dual diaphram booster, the 4.3 S10 has the dual diaphram, bigger size booster. SAME CAR/TRUCK now if overboosting is a problem why does it not show up on the S10s.?. I have seen NOT ONE, not even one, person who did the upgrade, say "this sucks" not one.
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Report this Post06-04-2014 08:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dcarrdSend a Private Message to dcarrdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:


That is not the right way to do it, you ONLY want to go with a bigger master IF you have bigger calipers and they need more fluid to move. See the Orge's cave.
A bigger master will decrease the pressure to the calipers. Again see the Orge's cave.


So are Grand Am calipers considered "bigger calipers"? Dont they have a larger piston? If so, would they benefit from a larger MC and if so, which one is recommended?
Btw, thanks for answering my questions, I'll PM you in the next few weeks once I pull the first engine out
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Report this Post06-04-2014 03:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ogre, All new premium pads, all new rotors, calipers, hoses, no air in lines. Old Booster did not have a" vacuum leak", still held vacuum from at least DAYS before I disconnected it. no leak from engine to booster. All was new BEFORE putting the 96 S10 unit on. Is it possible the old booster Was bad without showing any "Signs" of it ?
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quote
Originally posted by dcarrd:


So are Grand Am calipers considered "bigger calipers"? Dont they have a larger piston? If so, would they benefit from a larger MC and if so, which one is recommended?
Btw, thanks for answering my questions, I'll PM you in the next few weeks once I pull the first engine out


They are only a little bit bigger, if you only do one set IE the fronts, the bigger MC is a bit bigger than needed for both front and back, so adding a bigger MC with just one set is is too much and will decreae pressure to the calipers, it was in the Orgre's cave all the specs, I am having a hard time finding the page. beyond that I don't have a broad enough knowledge base of MCs to recommend one.


 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

Ogre, All new premium pads, all new rotors, calipers, hoses, no air in lines. Old Booster did not have a" vacuum leak", still held vacuum from at least DAYS before I disconnected it. no leak from engine to booster. All was new BEFORE putting the 96 S10 unit on. Is it possible the old booster Was bad without showing any "Signs" of it ?


Yes it is, I have tested a booster that held Vac just fine but did not provide brake assist. Just FYI
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