Rodney I would prob buy this kit from you. I don't mind the body work at all if its not much IE can be done without power tools or in under an hour. If its not a decent improvement though I think a lot of people wont want to bother. Keep us posted on this.
I got totally lost by the bottom of the first page...You guys are nuts, lol! (In a good way).
I'll have to wade through this sometime when I don't already have a migraine to see if it panned out as a good mod or not... It sounded good to me, but then you guys started in with all the math, lol!
Either way, thanks for trying, I hope it went well!
------------------ ~Michael Project IMSA Formula Coming Soon! '85 GT 4sp white - SOLD | | '85 2M6 Auto red - SOLD | | '84 2M4 bare chassis - SOLD Crap, I'm out of Fieros! Time to buy another!! - "Your mileage may vary."
Rodney I would prob buy this kit from you as well. I wouldnt mind doing the body work as long as it doesnt look to bad once the booster is back in place.
------------------ In loving memory of Harold Hummel (PFF 4WHEEL) 1936-2004
Did this mod to my 86gt automatic. A world of difference after the mod. Picked up a 96 S-10 blazer booster from a local wrecking yard for $40. Spent roughly $4 on fasteners. Very good upgrade for less than $50.
I completed this swap a few days ago & have test driven the brakes for quite a few miles now. This is one wise investment. There's a noticable difference in braking power!
Now fer the downside, sorta.......
What hasn't been said is that one of those studs on the booster lines up well enough with the stud on the firewall to make it impossible to get even a 1/4" universal in there. The added diameter of the booster doesn't help with the universal either. My hands were to big to get in there to even start the nut. I couldn't even get my stubby wrench in there.
For anyone who might have given up on that one stud & only installed 3 nuts out of four, there is a way.
The solution for me was to unbolt the wiper motor & pivot it up out of the way (linkage stays connected). This gave me enough access from the top to get that fourth nut on the firewall stud.
It never seems to fail for me, there's always one nut or bolt that just won't cooperate<g>
For those of you that were thinking of doing the conversion I am posting the interchange for the 1997 S-10 brake power booster to make it easier if you are going to a salvage yard for the booster.
These are the models and years of GM vehicles that will work: 1. 1995-1998 Chevrolet S10 2. 1996-1997 Oldsmobile Bravada 3. 1995-1997 GMC Jimmy 4. 1996-1997 Isuzu Hombre 5. 1995-1997 Chevrolet Blazer 6. 1995-1997 GMC Sonoma
This site will give you the exact vehicle and VIN no. to look for: http://tinyurl.com/6mnffg Do a search for: A15471061 And it will turn up the specifics on the 6 vehicles
E.G., For the listing for the S-10:: 1995-1995: 6Cyl 4.3L "Gas, FI, VIN "Z" Base 1995-1995: 6Cyl 4.3L "Gas, FI, VIN "Z" LS 1995-1995: 6Cyl 4.3L "Gas, FI, VIN "Z" SS 1995-1995: 6Cyl 4.3L "Gas, FI, VIN "Z" ZR2 1995-1997: 4Cyl 2.2L "Gas, FI, VIN "4" Base 1995-1997: 4Cyl 2.2L "Gas, FI, VIN "4" LS 1995-1997: 4Cyl 2.2L "Gas, FI, VIN "4" SS 1995-1997: 4Cyl 2.2L "Gas, FI, VIN "4" ZR2 1995-1997: 6Cyl 4.3L "Gas, FI, VIN "W" Base 1995-1997: 6Cyl 4.3L "Gas, FI, VIN "W" LS 1995-1997: 6Cyl 4.3L "Gas, FI, VIN "W" SS 1995-1997: 6Cyl 4.3L "Gas, FI, VIN "W" ZR2 1996-1997: 6Cyl 4.3L "Gas, FI, VIN "X" LS 1996-1997: 6Cyl 4.3L "Gas, FI, VIN "X" SS 1996-1997: 6Cyl 4.3L "Gas, FI, VIN "X" ZR2 1997-1997: 6Cyl 4.3L "Gas, FI, VIN "X" Base 1997-1998: ElectrCyl ElectrL "Electric, VIN "H" Base
It could save you some money since the rebuilt price seems to be about $100 and here in Minnesota at my local U-Pull-R-Parts lot the boosters go for only $6.00!
Any reason this upgrade wouldn't work with other modenr brake boosters, other than the S10 -- assuming whatever donor you use that the various bolts line up and the rod can be modified to work?
So can these be used? If so what length? Edit: moved my comment out of the quote ------------------ My Car Site www.flexyourrights.com Just say NO!! to Automatic Transmissions!!
[This message has been edited by Primaris (edited 01-15-2009).]
Those kits were made to adjust the length of the rod. i found and posted them just for the guys who didn't wanna weld, but can't tell you if they will actually work with this mod. i had mine welded as shown above and it works fine. Just be aware that too much heat being transferred to the internals of the booster is NOT a good thing
Has anyone who has installed this had the 12" Brakes on the car? Is it workable with that upgrade as well? Or does it turn it into like the old mid 60's Fords with power brakes?
i have to ask, these boosters, if they are sat back about an inch or so, would body work still be required? maybe like a spacer block, and a little bit longer rod, to reduce the need for the BFH, i havent realy looked into it too much, but it seems like that might work imo...
I did the upgrade today but there is something wrong. The pedal is almost 100% stiff. And the brake force is not good. I used the Booster from a S10 -98. 2 wheel drive 4 Cyl. 2,2 I cut of the arm from a Fiero booster and welded it with the S10 booster. (24.8cm) Should I have changed the pin coming out from the booster with the Fiero pin? (The one pushing the master cylinder) I did fill up a little brake fluid in the mastercylinder after the upgrade but that should not be the problem. Someone knows where to start looking?
[This message has been edited by Sharkman (edited 08-31-2009).]
I suspect your patch on the banjo arm is the culprit. I got the Rodney Dickman adjustable banjo for mine and it works pretty much perfect.
If the pedal is 100% stiff the arm may be bottomed out in the Master Cylinder. You can check this by unhooking the master cylinder from the fire wall and see if the plunger comes out.
Why would anyone in their right mind want to go to a wrecking yard to buy such critical safety items as brake boosters? The only reason I can even remotely think of is to use the item as a core when buying a new item. You just can't put a price on safety. Cheaping out is a good way to kill yourself or someone else.
Also, why use an S-10 or any booster requiring you to hammer on the car? Get a NEW dual diaphragm booster for the same or less than a used one and even get it chrome plated! A 8" dual diaphragm unit offers the same boost as a single 10" unit. No beating the hell out of your car! What a concept!
I used parts from a Fierobooster that I had laying arround. So I still have the one from my car intact. But I think its a great upgrade for a small amount of work and money. If you use the one you are talking about CopperBender. Will the Fiero brakecylinder work and so on? Or will you have to upgrade the hole system?
on another forum i belong to (jeeps) they have been replacing the old single diaphram vac booster with a dual diaphram from a newer jeep. They are running into the same issue with the rod to the peddle being the wrong length. they are using this company to rebuild/replace the rod
I'm working on this. I should be able to get these larger boosters made with the correct mounting bracket and the correct banjo on them. I am looking to see if a slightly smaller booster is available that may be a direct interchange so no body work needs to be done. I am working with an automotive brake booster manufacturer. This will take a fairly long time to get this done. Maybe by the beginning of next year. We'll see.
Seeking input on the body work part. Would you prefer a booster that directly interchanges and needs no body work but the braking effects gains are not as much as the larger booster that requires body work to make fit? Possibly if I find one that is around 10 inches in diameter and requires no body work I can offer both variations.
I have made some progress on this. Still will take some time but I may be successful yet. Will take some time yet. Maybe if I am lucky by mid summer 2010.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
I got as far as welding the two rods together with a heavy spacer and painting the 97 s10 booster......And then it got too dark to see. Hopefully i can get it all buttoned up tomrrow before the family starts coming over and bugging me
Did you guys reuse the fiero master cylinder side push pin/rod or use the one that came in the s10 booster?
Well I've been researching this upgrade for my sisters car, and from what I can tell, the S10 booster (AC Delco 178-621), is a Double Diaphragm booster. This would certainly explain the gain in braking assist.
I'm going to the J/Y tomorrow to pick up one of these boosters and I'll try to post some pictures in here once I make some progress.
I got as far as welding the two rods together with a heavy spacer and painting the 97 s10 booster......And then it got too dark to see. Hopefully i can get it all buttoned up tomrrow before the family starts coming over and bugging me
Did you guys reuse the fiero master cylinder side push pin/rod or use the one that came in the s10 booster?
Wish me luck!
Use the pin from the new S-10 booster. The old one from the Fiero OEM booster is different on the internal end. Old Fiero pin on right, S-10 pin on left:
I measured the protrusion length of both the OEM pin and the S-10 pin to the master cylinder mounting surface. They both measured the same. (Note that the OEM booster has a recessed mounting surface for the M/C, the mounting surface on the new S-10 booster is not recessed.)
Instead of sleeving and welding the rods together I chose to thread them so I would have some adjustment when installing. The OEM rod measures 0.354 diameter and the S-10 rod measures 0.364 diameter. This is close enough to the major diameter for 3/8-16 thread, leaving the thread crest a little truncated, but not enough to seriously diminish the thread strength.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-13-2010).]
Threading the rods to 3/8-16 allowed me to use some off-the-shelf parts from Lowes:
After carefully measuring what I needed for the assembled length, plus allowance for adjustments, I cut the OEM rod length to approx. 4.312 from the center of the eye to the end and threaded it a little over 1.50 inches
The S-10 booster rod was threaded about 1.25 inches.
The assembled rods:
The jam nut and coupling nut was threaded down all the way on the S-10 booster rod threads and set with Loctite. After installing the booster in the car, the OEM rod was adjusted to the perfect length, attached to the brake pedal and the jam nut secured to the coupling nut with Loctite thread locker. The whole rod assembly is very secure with plenty of thread engagement, (>3X thread diameter of both rods).
So far I'm pretty happy with the improvement in braking.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-09-2010).]
Well I ended up getting a 4WD booster. Its not the one labeled as PP as shown above, mine is labeled SU. Its not the one that I wanted, but it was easy to get to so I'm gonna try it.
I did this upgrade with the 4WD booster tonight, and unfortunately, I can't say there was much improvement. I forgot my camera so I don't have any more pictures to add to this thread. The swap was really easy and straight forward, its too bad I got the 4wd unit.
When you first touch the brakes, it feels like there is more initial 'bite' but anything more than a quick tap of the brakes is pretty much unchanged. This was done on an 86 with stock everything else.
Hopefully I can do this to another car and use the correct 2wd booster to see if there is more improvement.
. NICE work Phil ....
