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$100 brake upgrade by Phil
Started on: 04-04-2006 08:37 AM
Replies: 419 (53295 views)
Last post by: Kevin87FieroGT on 11-21-2020 07:18 PM
Phil
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Report this Post07-31-2007 04:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PhilClick Here to Email PhilSend a Private Message to PhilEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My initial post on page one has the step by step instructions.
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americasfuture2k
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Report this Post07-31-2007 05:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for americasfuture2kSend a Private Message to americasfuture2kEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
pics of that push arm that was modified would be a good thing to have. stock fiero's, stock s-dime's, and the modified one. and how far does it need to be extended.
was it for a 2wd? would a 4x4 blazers be any better?

[This message has been edited by americasfuture2k (edited 08-06-2009).]

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PaulJK
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Report this Post08-08-2007 07:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here's the RockAuto booster for the 1997 Blazer 2WD, # 5471061. The part # is the same for S-10 pickup and GMC Jimmy.



Here's the 4WD, # 5474822



The specs are the same but the 2wd is $97.79 and the 4wd is $135.79

Looks like maybe the vacuum fitting and the master cylinder mounting are different (?)

Per Phil's first post and roccofiero on page 3, the 2WD Blazer / S-10 pickup is the one to get.

By the way, the Rock Auto booster is made by Cardone. PepBoys, AutoZone, Kragen and NAPA also carry the Cardone, so it looks like Cardone has cornered the market

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 08-08-2007).]

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PaulJK
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Report this Post08-08-2007 07:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
here's the pedal rod extension kit from jegs, # 908-4750 http://www.jegs.com/webapp/...0001_10002_130450_-1



Here's one from Summit, # SUM-760125 http://store.summitracing.c...855+115&autoview=sku



Hope this helps . NICE work Phil ....

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 08-08-2007).]

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PaulJK
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Report this Post08-17-2007 04:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am to the point of attaching the fiero booster rod to the S10 rod.
here are the two boosters showing how much longer the fiero pushrod is than the S10 rod.


Even if you cut it close to the end, the remaining S10 shaft is still very short.


Since the S10 stub is so short, I am concerned about heating the rubber seals inside the S10 booster when i attach the fiero rod.

I got (3) metal sleeves that I plan to put inside each other and have welded to the fiero rod




Then i plan to slide the sleeved fiero rod over the S10 rod when the booster is installed in the car. I am thinking of even putting some JB Weld on the end where it attaches to the S10 rod.

Any comments from those that have done this mod ?

Thank You

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 08-19-2007).]

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Hudini
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Report this Post08-17-2007 08:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is there something that would keep you from welding the S10 end of the rod first, then welding the Fiero end onto that? JB Weld on something like this makes me shudder.

[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 08-17-2007).]

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TT Slick
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Report this Post08-17-2007 10:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TT SlickClick Here to Email TT SlickSend a Private Message to TT SlickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just used three welds spaced about 120 Deg. from each other at both ends of the sleeve. Please, put the JB weld away. Your almost there. Good Luck!

P.S. We used to wrap a wet rag around things we did'nt want to get hot, you could try it here to make yourself feel better.
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PaulJK
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Report this Post08-17-2007 12:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
after i install the booster, the sleeved end will slip over the S10 stub and i can then attach it to the brake pedal. It will have no where to go, but the edge of the stub sitting in the sleeve will rub the inside of the sleeve as the brakes are used. i just thought the JB Weld would stop this slight movement and wear point.

I am concerned that Any welding on the short stub will transfer enough heat into the S10 booster to damage the rubber seals inside. I put a wet rag aroung the S10 stub while i cut the end off with a dremel tool but the base of the stub still got warm. I'd first weld the sleeve onto the fiero end - no heat transfer since it's off the booster; the booster would get heated when the sleeved end is welded to the stub.

Thanks for the (3) spot welds 120 degrees apart. This was "tack welding" done with wet rags (with no apparent damage to the rubber inside) or did you just weld to the short stub with no heat protection ? I'm guessing that everyone has been dealing with a short stub as shown in the pic above.

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 08-17-2007).]

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PaulJK
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Report this Post08-17-2007 05:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, my man at the muffler shop has a MIG welder and here's the finished product Maybe that 3rd sleeve was a little much, but better safe than sorry.



He explained that MIG is low temp (as far as welding is concerned), so i asked him to weld both ends. He did the fiero / sleeved piece first, cooled it, THEN welded it to the S10 stub. Although the stub was too hot to touch comfortably, we figured it was not hot enough to damage anything inside the booster because the lightweight foam surrounding the stub was not affected (the rusty brown color is just dirt).

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 08-17-2007).]

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jweisman
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Report this Post08-17-2007 05:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jweismanClick Here to Email jweismanSend a Private Message to jweismanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Can't you just thread that booster rod after you cut it, then you can use those pedal rod extension's to get the length you need, I think that would be better then welding it together
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TT Slick
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Report this Post08-17-2007 09:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TT SlickClick Here to Email TT SlickSend a Private Message to TT SlickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I agree, if I had it to do over again I would use a RH, LH threaded coupling nut with jam nuts, then you can "dial-in" any length that works best.
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PaulJK
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Report this Post08-17-2007 11:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
sure, sure ... NOW you tell me .

Before i welded, I mounted the booster with the stub sticking out then crawled under the dash and put the fiero rod on the brake pedal. I braced the pedal from underneath so that it was held in the "up" position. i swung the fiero rod upward to meet the S10 stub so the rods were side-by-side. I then marked the fiero rod, took it out and cut it to the proper length; used a dremel tool to make sure both rod ends would fit together flat.

I think the threading method would be easier but (for me) more expensive. I don't have a tap and die set. the threaded extensions above are both around $40. The welding job only cost $20. In addition, i think the welding is stronger (although most of the force should be down the length of the rod, not side to side). I think the one i have could stop a charging rhino . But everything i do for my kitcar i try to make bulletproof.

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 08-17-2007).]

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TT Slick
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Report this Post08-18-2007 10:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TT SlickClick Here to Email TT SlickSend a Private Message to TT SlickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, you know what they say about hindsight, you look like your very close to getting this thing installed. Please do a follow-up post and let us know how it worked for you, mine worked great, I now have no problems what-so-ever with stoping power, again much thanks to Phil for getting this whole thing started.

P.S. One other thing that I did before I cut the rod, I hooked up the vacuum to the engine and started it to make sure the diaphragm was in the correct position when I measured the rod length for cut, just a afterthought.
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PaulJK
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Report this Post08-18-2007 08:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
TTSlick - You know, i thought about the position of the S10 rod but it seemed tight and immovable when i got it so wasn't worried. Maybe these things "default" to the same "out" position. Thank you Very much for your interest in helping me through this . (+)

I have the full size blazer master cylinder (i think), beretta front brakes, fiero back brakes and now the S10 power booster with braided steel brake lines. After a 5 mile test ride, all i can say is "Phil, YOU are a GENIUS ". This is definitely the brakes the car should have come with. I think i probably have a little more pedal than i need (lot of stopping with very little pedal effort) but it's going to be a nice adjustment for me to make to my driving style.

I had a few scary moments prior to this instal where i applied the brakes and waited to find out when i would stop. A Very scary experience on wet roads, where the car seemed to go for a LONG ways before it stopped. I know you loose traction when the brakes lock up, and the stock fiero brakes would NEVER lock up but (unlike anti-lock brakes) just seemed to be weak, not efficient. Can you comment on this ?

PS. if i do this mod to another car, i'm gonna do it exactly the same way (MIG welding the rod). i feel VERY safe with that weld Also, if you HAVE to err on cutting the rod, it would be better to make it slightly too short than too long. A too long rod simply would not fit and you might compensate by shimming the booster bracket out . A rod too short, would just leave the pedal sit a little lower but you could re-adjust the brake light switch to accomodate i think.

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 08-19-2007).]

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PaulJK
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Report this Post08-22-2007 10:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just wanted to report back, now that I have a few miles on this upgrade. WOW, is it nice ... one of the best things I've done to the car. No sense of "touchy-ness" just a sense of security, that the brakkes are there if i need them. Have not tried locking them up, but i hope i never have to ....
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Fieromaniac
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Report this Post08-30-2007 02:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i could get an 93 S10 Booster but i dont know if its the right one for this mod



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Report this Post08-31-2007 08:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The part numbers are different between the '93 and the '97 according to Rock Auto website.

EDIT: Looks like '95 is the first year using the #5471061 Cardone booster.

[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 08-31-2007).]

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Fieromaniac
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Report this Post08-31-2007 11:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:

The part numbers are different between the '93 and the '97 according to Rock Auto website.

EDIT: Looks like '95 is the first year using the #5471061 Cardone booster.



so thats a no = this booster wont work for the break upgrade ?
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Hudini
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Report this Post08-31-2007 04:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Can you take the master cylinder off and measure the booster? The numbers are posted above for the booster he used. You might have found another alternative for this upgrade. Someone has to be the first one to try it.
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solotwo
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Report this Post09-02-2007 11:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
With Phils brake mod looking like it is the mod to do, I am wondering why some one hasnt found a source to make these with the proper rod installed. Orge mentioned that only a manufacturer or shop that has the capabilities to take the booster apart and reassemble should tackle this. Well why cant one of these manufacturers do this? I can see where a lot of Fiero people will be doing this. May be Rodney can add this to his list of products that he has available for us?

Just a thought. If I wasnt in school and had more time I would make some phone calls. I would probably get my son at MSU in mechanical engineering and project manager for the Formula SAE team to help his ole dad! He was brake manager last year.

[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 09-02-2007).]

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PaulJK
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Report this Post09-03-2007 05:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
you will waste more time and effort that way than you would simply by doing the mod as described. It's not that hard ....
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Report this Post09-23-2007 06:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LZeppelin513Click Here to Email LZeppelin513Send a Private Message to LZeppelin513Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am in the process of this upgrade and decided i would thread the s10 booster rod and couple with a coupling nut. After i threaded the pushrod and putting it all together i realized that I must have had the die cocked a small amount when threading because my extension is off by a couple of degrees. Will this cause catastrophic failure or should i be ok? thanks.
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Firefighter
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Report this Post09-23-2007 06:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FirefighterClick Here to Email FirefighterSend a Private Message to FirefighterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
LZeppelin - I had the same issue with mine. It was just slightly out of total alignment. So, I just placed the entire connected rod on a flat rock and hit it easily with a hammer until it was straighter. It's fine and the car stops remarkably fast. Ed

------------------

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LZeppelin513
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Report this Post09-24-2007 03:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LZeppelin513Click Here to Email LZeppelin513Send a Private Message to LZeppelin513Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok thanks firefighter, I am looking forward to having normal breaks haha!
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megafreakindeth
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Report this Post11-25-2007 11:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for megafreakindethSend a Private Message to megafreakindethEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
am i correct that the model range for the booster is a 95-97 s10 or similar with 2wd? 4wd doesnt work?
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Ants87gt
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Report this Post11-26-2007 04:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Ants87gtClick Here to Email Ants87gtSend a Private Message to Ants87gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

Keep in mind, the smaller booster won't give as much brake assist. Since the reason for the swap is to get more assist, I would think you'd want to go with the largest booster that will fit. The S10 booster looks to be about as much as you can squeeze in there without major surgery.


not really the case if they are identical designs then you are correct but these new dual diaphgram ones are amazing i put a small one in my 51 chevy puickup i think it was like an 8 inch and it stops awesome especially for a 1 ton four wheel drive v8 truck.


also about some concerns as to weather the s10 booster would work with a 2,8 napa only list 1 booster for the 96 s10 so if it will work with a 2.2 4cvl i'm pretty sure it;ll work with your 2.8

[This message has been edited by Ants87gt (edited 11-26-2007).]

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1MohrFiero
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Report this Post12-01-2007 08:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1MohrFieroSend a Private Message to 1MohrFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Darn! Looks like another project to add to the list!

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88FieroForm
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Report this Post12-08-2007 06:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88FieroFormClick Here to Email 88FieroFormSend a Private Message to 88FieroFormEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TT Slick:

I agree, if I had it to do over again I would use a RH, LH threaded coupling nut with jam nuts, then you can "dial-in" any length that works best.


WHere can you find a RH-LH coupling nut??? At the autozone or Lowe's or something????
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sardonyx247
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Report this Post12-09-2007 12:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by schumi:
3. I had to use a couple of M10 washers on each of the m/c mounting bolts, because without them the pushrod thing from booster to m/c was causing brakes to be engaged even w/o pressing the pedal.



What about this?


oh and to all the people who can lock up thier tires with stock brakes.....
Get some better frickin' tires. Tires transfer ALL HP to the ground along with ALL brakeing power. If your tires can't stick to the ground they suck!

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 12-09-2007).]

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Report this Post02-13-2008 02:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Ants87gt:


not really the case if they are identical designs then you are correct but these new dual diaphgram ones are amazing i put a small one in my 51 chevy puickup i think it was like an 8 inch and it stops awesome especially for a 1 ton four wheel drive v8 truck.


also about some concerns as to weather the s10 booster would work with a 2,8 napa only list 1 booster for the 96 s10 so if it will work with a 2.2 4cvl i'm pretty sure it;ll work with your 2.8



I have not done this mod on my Fiero, BUT the duel diaphram booster is a HUGE brake upgrade that I did on my Jeep. I went from 28" tall tires to 33" tall tires and the stock booster is dangerously inadequate for the larger tires. The same size booster from a newer Jeep that has two diaphrams will now lock up the wheels. VERY easy mod for a Jeep, should have the same results in the Fiero too.

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linuxpowered88
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Report this Post02-17-2008 04:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for linuxpowered88Click Here to Email linuxpowered88Send a Private Message to linuxpowered88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Silly question I know but this upgrade does work on an 88 someone has done it? I know the booster is slightly different for 88 I was wondering how well it worked on an 88 thanks.
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Report this Post02-17-2008 12:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for avengador1Click Here to Email avengador1Send a Private Message to avengador1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Read page 1 you will see that it was done on an '88.
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linuxpowered88
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Report this Post02-17-2008 12:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for linuxpowered88Click Here to Email linuxpowered88Send a Private Message to linuxpowered88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
whoops sorry thanks
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Report this Post02-18-2008 10:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroFanatic13Click Here to Email FieroFanatic13Send a Private Message to FieroFanatic13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by linuxpowered88:

Silly question I know but this upgrade does work on an 88 someone has done it? I know the booster is slightly different for 88 I was wondering how well it worked on an 88 thanks.



Does anyone know what the actual differences betwen the '88 and pre '88 boosters and master cylinders are besides the master cylinder bore diameter? Will an '88 booster and master bolt into a pre '88 or does it require a lot of fabrication? What won't match up easily, if anything? BTW, I'm going to be using rockcrawls brake conversion kit that uses '88 calipers and vetter rotors on a pre '88 car, which is why I'm interested.
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FieroFanatic13
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Report this Post02-19-2008 09:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroFanatic13Click Here to Email FieroFanatic13Send a Private Message to FieroFanatic13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Quickster:

But I have a revelant question.........Does replacing the Master Cylinder with a Bigger one have an affect on the pedal? I replaced my M/C with a Bigbore and the brakes haven't been the same since! Now,...if I replaced the Booster with the aforementioned S-10 option,...would that help my "soft Pedal" problem?


YES. Did you change anything else, or just install a bigger bore master cylinder? If you did, WHY did you change it?
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whodeanie
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Report this Post02-29-2008 08:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for whodeanieClick Here to visit whodeanie's HomePageClick Here to Email whodeanieSend a Private Message to whodeanieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have an 88GT and I just did this conversion on mine. what a differance !
I have never been able to lock up the brakes until now
Great and easy mod.
took less than 2 hrs. for me to do and total cost with the booster (new) and the nuts $124.00

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anthony_86gt
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Report this Post04-13-2008 12:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for anthony_86gtClick Here to Email anthony_86gtSend a Private Message to anthony_86gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have the 11 1/4 upgrade and i was thinking about doing this mod. Any reasons why i shouldn't?
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anthony_86gt
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Report this Post04-18-2008 04:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for anthony_86gtClick Here to Email anthony_86gtSend a Private Message to anthony_86gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
well i finished this upgrade today and there is a huge improvement! i noticed the difference right away!
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Rodney
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From: Caledonia, WI USA
Registered: Feb 2000


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Report this Post05-18-2008 11:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm working on this. I should be able to get these larger boosters made with the correct mounting bracket and the correct banjo on them. I am looking to see if a slightly smaller booster is available that may be a direct interchange so no body work needs to be done. I am working with an automotive brake booster manufacturer. This will take a fairly long time to get this done. Maybe by the beginning of next year. We'll see.

Seeking input on the body work part. Would you prefer a booster that directly interchanges and needs no body work but the braking effects gains are not as much as the larger booster that requires body work to make fit? Possibly if I find one that is around 10 inches in diameter and requires no body work I can offer both variations.

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Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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avengador1
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Registered: Oct 2001


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Report this Post05-18-2008 04:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for avengador1Click Here to Email avengador1Send a Private Message to avengador1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The body work isn't too hard Rodney. All it takes is a couple of whacks with a BFH. It doesn't even damage the paint if done right. You just need a little clearance to fit the new booster. Probably less than 1/8 of an inch. The biggest pain is getting the right length banjo fitting. When you have yours ready, count me in for getting one.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 05-18-2008).]

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