This weekend I removed the Fenders, Doors and Fascia to do more cleaning underneath and move forward on getting the interior back together.
First, I relocated the antenna out of the way. First I grabbed some aluminum angle and self tappers
Next, Set it in place to run along the inside of the passenger fender
Next, drill a hole in the edge of the frame rail and file the edges smooth, then using heavy duty zip ties strap the end of the antenna to the frame rail with a piece of rubber in between. The quality of the signal is about 90% that of the standard configuration. Good enough for me.
I really hate cheap paint work and this car had some patch paintwork done. It is not all over the car but a few parts got a respray and they didn't mask very well. No better time than now to touch up the door jams with some chassis black!
Next, get the interior back together. Starting with the first thing that has to go in, the headliner. T-Top headliners are a pain because the only thing holding them together is literally the headliner fabric. Once it goes, you have a challenge ahead. Here is how to cope. Start with a coat hanger, some thick card stock, a stapler, and some spray glue.
Cut the coat hanger into two sections about 6" ling and give them a slight bend to fit the contour of the headliner.
Then glue them in and hold tem down with heavy card stock (also glued) AND stapled. It will be rock solid.
Spray glue the liner and the backer board, let sit for 3 minutes and roll it out one half at a time and gently smooth it in.
BBefore you install it, remove the center T-Bar and give it a clean and touch-up the paint if needed, then re-install before you put the headliner in. Time to install. Extra hands help here. Install all the odds and ends to hold it in place.
Now the fun part, cutting-in the T-Tops. This needs to be done in stages. You can always remove mor material, you CAN'T put it back so go slowly!
After pressing in the headliner tap in the rubber trim ring over the headliner and I trial fit the end caps. Looks good!
The carpets got a pressure wash and the computer for the 5-Speed went in.
Tomorrow, the doors get a cleaning and get installed, along with the rest of the interior.
I decided to rebuild the doors since the motors are kinda weak and there is some rust that needs to be tackled. It is just surface rust but I don't want it to become worse so I am taking the doors apart and hitting them with a coat of paint. I will post that later today.
So in the meantime, I am getting the interior back together. For the time being, I am sticking with the stock stereo. I will upgrade eventually but before I do I want to know that the car works and all systems are operational before I complicate things. So I slipped a couple of retainers onto the holes and slipped the support bracket on and held it down with a couple of 10mm screws. the best part, this is removable and restoreable anytime I like.
time for the dashboard and instrumentation. all got a good cleaning and armor-all treatment.
One of the annoying aspects of a Formula is the 4 spoke steering wheel and the omnipresent problem of broken horn buttons. I had a good left button and I salvaged a steering wheel off a 1986 SE with a good right button. one crimp later and presto.
I also found time to re-assemble the front end. After some cleaning, touch-up paint on the chassis and a good buff on the paint, it is looking good. I will repaint the car in a year or so but this looks good enough for a 5 foot car for now.
So today I took the donor car doors and stripped them down and cleaned them up. I tested the motors and solenoid and everything works like new. The hinge pins were a bit worn however so I just swapped the hinges from the original doors which are perfect. I cleaned and greased the window metal tracks and the window operate like new now. But when I started to put the door together I noticed something.........................what is missing from this door?...........I didn't even notice at first. Take a look as see if you can guess and then scroll to the bottom to see if you got it.
Before putting the panels back together the first step is to make this car serviceable down the road when I get ready to give it a new paint job. And that means getting rid of he rivets! Rivets are a hassle. They might make manufacturing easy but they make servicing a pain so when ever possible I swap in riv-nuts instead. I first drill out the rivet holes to allow a M6 riv-nut. Brass or Stainless are the best for a steel frame.
Finally for this evening, stinking up the house with melted plastic. The overflow reservoir had a few splits in it and since I didn't have a spare it comes down to plastic welding. I just used my soldering iron and a little patience and it's as good as new.
If you read the first paragraph then here is the answer, the flange that holds the lip of the panel to the door frame is missing! So I drilled out the spot welds on the original door and plan to weld the flange to the donor door. But it won't fit because the profile is different soooooooooooooooooooo, ugh, I have to get a new donor door. Grrrrr.
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 10-29-2019).]
Oh wow this thread is great! Thank you for the pics and explanation of the manual swap. I'm in the slow process of swapping my '87 GT to a manual, and I've got it really stripped down, like bare bones. What has been the hardest part so far? I read that removing the auto pedal assembly is rough because of the wiring. Please keep the pics coming!
Oh wow this thread is great! Thank you for the pics and explanation of the manual swap. I'm in the slow process of swapping my '87 GT to a manual, and I've got it really stripped down, like bare bones. What has been the hardest part so far? I read that removing the auto pedal assembly is rough because of the wiring. Please keep the pics coming!
Yes, the way they route the wiring means you have to pull it out of the way of the bracket to get the bracket out. The bracket has sharp edges and the danger is that you can damage the harness. But a little careful maneuvering and it comes out eventually. The key is having the dashboard out of the way. Don't even think about trying it with the dashboard in place.
More details and pics soon. Been busy with other stuff lately.
Nothing is more frustrating than swapping what you THINK is a compatible part and it turns out not to be. The passenger door I took from my donor Fiero was replaced at some point. The door was from a 1984 Fiero and the door is NOT compatible with later models due to the way the door panels are attached. as such I had to grab a donor door from a different parts car and tear it apart and rebuild it all over again.
This is something you have to expect from time to time when working on older cars. But with some intrepidity I managed to get it done! Check it out, NO MORE RIVETS! Everything is held in with rivenuts and welded-in nuts with 6mm screws and bolts.
With the Door skins finally on you can see some of the subtle changes with new wiper blades (arms repainted of course), leather seats from a GT in very nice shape!, nose badge re-glued, etc.
Now is the time to TEST it ALL! hook up a battery to the fusable link and a neg to any ground and check all the interior gadgets before moving onto the engine. IT ALL WORKS!
One tip, I always use a new project folder to toss receipts in to be reconciled later. Office depot has them.
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 10-22-2019).]
Todd, I would highly recommend Rodney’s slave and master cylinders. Brian and I replaced mine on my 88GT with parts from a local store, then tore our hair out trying to figure out why the clutch system wasn’t working right. We replaced both with Rodney parts and they have been working perfectly for well over 100,000 miles.
Todd, I would highly recommend Rodney’s slave and master cylinders. Brian and I replaced mine on my 88GT with parts from a local store, then tore our hair out trying to figure out why the clutch system wasn’t working right. We replaced both with Rodney parts and they have been working perfectly for well over 100,000 miles.
I already have the parts but for the future I will definitely look into that. One thing I always try to do with a master and slave swap is go with cast iron, it just lasts longer and performs more reliably than rolled steel in my experience. I know that sounds counter-intuitive but I had the same issues as you with the original parts.
I already have the parts but for the future I will definitely look into that. One thing I always try to do with a master and slave swap is go with cast iron, it just lasts longer and performs more reliably than rolled steel in my experience. I know that sounds counter-intuitive but I had the same issues as you with the original parts.
The problem we had wasn't the metal parts, it was the seals/plunger. We figured out that the rubber plunger was so poor, fluid was just sloshing past it, and the clutch wasn't able to completely engage/disengauge. And this was right after installation, not later on.
I know you already have the parts, but it might be worth biting the bullet and getting the Rodney parts. You might avoid future headaches.
Today I started on the door panels to get the interior finished. The original door panels won't work, not because of the crank holes but because of the manual mirror hole. So I grabbed a set off my 1987 GT donor. But they needed some cleaning big time! First I removed the 1987 map pockets (BTW, that is a pain in the nuts! Literally. The nuts they used at the factory are on backwards as far as I am concerned and anyone who has tried ot remove them knows what I mean). I turn them over and use a standard 8mm socket and they go on easy and spread the load better.
I used a stiff bristle brush with some degreaser and then hosed them off after a good scrubbing. After an hour in the sun, they are clean and dry and ready for a new set of '88 map pockets from the Mall thanks to Chief!
BOOM! BTW, use new plastic press fittings. I use the spin in type, they are much better than stock.
Next step is to re-assemble the panels. I DO plan to repaint the car eventually, but we have to move next month and I just don't have the time for sanding and prep before then so the great thing is I can just pop the panels off since they are now just bolted in instead of riveted in. On the valance I use button cap screws to allow the plastic trim pieces to fit back in but underneath I use hex heads. And for God's sake, use stainless!
There is just something about a door with new dew wipes:
OK, the front 1/3 of the car is 99% done
The middle 1/3rd of the car is 99% done
The last 1/3rd.........ugh. Fortunately, this is the EASIEST part. Yes, you heard that right, it is just unbolt and bolt on parts. No drama or weird stuff, no customizing, or mysteries.
The old girl looks pretty good with her new shoes on up front.
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 10-25-2019).]
I know, fate tends to be bizarre at times. I will be moving south myself so I empathize. I have to concern myself with some storage as well.
South? Since you already have your current location in your profile, may I ask where the new location is going to be? One never knows where we're going to end up. I never expected to be buying/living in Southern Mississippi but, here I am. BTW, moving sucks, the older you are, the more it sucks. Take my advice on this, all that stuff you and your lovely wife have had stored in the attic and never used for years, give it away. If you haven't used or needed it in the last few years, the chances are, you won't ever need it again. I've moved the same "Junk" from one storage place to another for the last three moves because someone in this family thinks we should keep it. No names mentioned.
South? Since you already have your current location in your profile, may I ask where the new location is going to be? One never knows where we're going to end up. I never expected to be buying/living in Southern Mississippi but, here I am. BTW, moving sucks, the older you are, the more it sucks. Take my advice on this, all that stuff you and your lovely wife have had stored in the attic and never used for years, give it away. If you haven't used or needed it in the last few years, the chances are, you won't ever need it again. I've moved the same "Junk" from one storage place to another for the last three moves because someone in this family thinks we should keep it. No names mentioned.
Rams
We are leaving California and heading to Atlanta, Roswell to be exact. My job transfer is Dec 1 so we put an offer on a house and we are packing up! And yes, we already put tons of stuff on craig's list!
We are leaving California and heading to Atlanta, Roswell to be exact. My job transfer is Dec 1 so we put an offer on a house and we are packing up! And yes, we already put tons of stuff on craig's list!
Excellent, pretty sure there's an active Fiero group in that area. I pass through or near that city quite often. One never knows but, if you see another white 88 Formula CJB on the street, it's most likely me (lost).
Today I started to dis-assemble the donor engine. I need the wiring harness, transmission, mounts, and axles. The exhaust was a pain, lots of rust but I got it with some effort. Let WD-40 soak in over night and then a bit of heat.
The wiring harness is in surprisingly good condition. A bit dirty but I'll run a continuity test on it and replace only two plug ends!
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 10-25-2019).]
Today I split the Getrag 5-Speed from the engine of the donor car. I'll rebuild this for another project soon but for now, it gets a cleaning, strapped to a stand, bag and tag.
Now for the part I need, the 5-Speed MG-282 transmission. I left the axles in for now because it makes it easier to clean and evaluate condition. I will replace the gear oil, seals, and throw-out bearing. I will wait to clean it until I get the engine out of the Formula so I can do it all at once. The pressure washer makes a mess!
I suspected as much but it is nice to see my suspicions confirmed, the clutch is toast! Look at those heat marks on the flywheel and pressure plate. It's a good thing I bought all new stuff.
Tomorrow I pull the engine out of the Formula as well as the Gas tank so I can empty it and replace the fuel pump and filter.
Just getting ready to pull the engine. FYI, THIS is the ONLY rust on the entire car.
I think I know why the car was laid-up, the firewall side exhaust manifold has a loose bolt. Undoubtedly it was running rough. But the good news is NO CRACK! I can clean-out the flashing and it will be better than new!
The next step is to pull the gas tank. I need to drain the old stale gas and replace the pump and filter.
After a good inspection of everything I can see that the donor transmission has been ridden hard and put-up wet. The rear main seal was bad and just look at that goo! Fortunatley, it shifts well, the gear oil is clean, and with a good cleaning and new seals, it should be good to go.
Tomorrow, I will take care of the gas tank and break down the engine for cleaning.
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 06-09-2021).]
Job one after getting the engine out was to clean it well enough to work with it. Pressure washers are great for this as they can get all the gunk off. I removed the alternator before cleaning. Several details become clear right away, the alternator, muffler, and starter have all been replaced! As I get further into the engine I am sure I will find other upgrades that had not been documented.
The next step is the transmission which was REALLY dirty. After cleaning I now need to remove the clutch arm for rust removal and polishing. This thing sat for a long time. I can't make this point clearly enough, Cleaning your parts is critical! Those little "fins" and "vanes" on your transmission are for heat dissipation as much as they are for strength. Many of the problems your car has is heat retention in all the wrong places. We will talk more about that when I break the engine down but for now, suffice it to say that a clean engine will last longer and run better.
Today I got a tap in the mail which allowed me to finish one last item up front. I bought the 3 core aluminum radiator online but I did not think to ask if the overflow spigot came with it (seemed redundant but as I learned, it isn't! So ASK!). There was a 7mm hole there but nothing in it. Now the problem is that even if I had a 7mm spigot, it would not be large enough for good overflow so I found one on Summit that was 10mm. The thread pitch is 1mm however (which is an oddball size, so I had to order a tap).
Step 1 was to drill out the hole with a 11/32 drill bit and tap the hole with the 10x1.0 tap. A paper towel prevents debris from getting into the radiator.
with some teflon tape the spigot looks like it was made that way.
The finished product
And the finished front end is now ready for the hood to go back on.
Next I had to replace the fuel pump after draining the gas tank of the varnish in there. That is the easy part, setting the gas gauge is not so easy. It should ideally read 90 to 0 ohms (90ohms = Full and 0 ohms = Empty). Now I personally don't care so much if the needle goes past F when FULL but I hate not having it hit E when EMPTY. The fact is there is nothing you can do about it. The closest I have ever calibrated these was 2.9 ohms; which isn't bad considering they are usually set around 10 ohms from the factory, meaning you run out of gas with 1/8th of a tank showing on your gauge. The Ohm meter probes should go in at the yellow plug for the most accuracy. I got this one down to 3.5 ohms; close enough! To do it, disassemble the resistor and use an emery board to clean the corrosion off the filaments (BE CAREFUL, the filaments are very thin, use the buffing side of the board here), also clean the springs, and the contact patch where the spring contacts the metal plate with the emery board. Re-assemble and use a T-10 Torx to adjust until you get the right readings.
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 10-29-2019).]
Is there a more detailed write up on, specifically, doing the adjustments on the fuel sending unit? I’d really like to do this on my cars. I have yet another fuel tank I’ve just dropped, so this would be a great opportunity to learn and apply this.
Is there a more detailed write up on, specifically, doing the adjustments on the fuel sending unit? I’d really like to do this on my cars. I have yet another fuel tank I’ve just dropped, so this would be a great opportunity to learn and apply this.
There isn't much more to it. You need a T-10 Torx bit, there are 2 adjustment screws and then you just use your ohm meter to check resistance as you raise or lower the lever. Then adjust the screws as needed. The one thing to be sure you do for a car that has sat for a while is clean the corrosion off the leads and contact points first. It takes a lot of fiddling around but with patience you will find the right combo to get the lowest reading.
Today I separated the engine and transmission from the cradle and mounted the engine on a stand, ready for tear down. I am only taking it back to the long block since I tested it and it turns over easily by hand and has very clean oil. I just want to get it clean, replace the timing gear, water pump, and test each sensor and injector as I go and replace as needed.
The Auto transmission is in GREAT shape. Easily driven, the forward motor mount looks like new! So this tranny will fit well in another 1988 GT which needs a trans badly. I'll give it a clean and save for the other project. NOTE: the axle nuts are on the ends of the axles, this will protect the threads from damage while moving around and it means I won't lose the nuts.
With the tranny out I can now get to work cleaning the cradle before installing the 5-speed manual transmission. The bushings are SHOT! so I have some new poly going in after I get it cleaned-up.
I started a new thread in Tech where I posted questions and pictures to help get more information on the fuel sender clean up and calibration. Toddster, if you have time, please drop by? All feedback is appreciated.
So we are moving in 2 weeks and I just do not have the time to do the detailing in the engine bay that I would normally do. So I am just going to get the engine running so that it moves on it's own. Then I will get back to work on it once I have a new workshop set-up at the new house. So today I took down the top of the engine and cleaned out the carbon. This thing was running RICH! wow, I'm surprised it ran at all with that exhaust leak. But the cylinders all have good compression and it should run fine once built back up correctly.
I also cleaned the cradle and tranny and mounted them together.
It is important to remember that when you change from an AUTO to a 5-Speed, you need to move the front motor mount from the right set of cradle holes to the left.
This weekend I will reassemble the engine and mate it to the tranny
OK, it's time to get this thing fixed up and put together. The long term goal is a new high performance engine. Bu for the time being, I just want to get this one running and reliable until next spring.
The first step is to get the fatal flaw in the stock Fiero engine fixed, the infamous exhaust port flashing. This is the before. Car and Driver did an analysis of this problem and, although they didn't go as far as pointing out that THIS is the reason for the majority of Fiero engine fires, they did mention that it was a hazard and removing it would gain you between 7-9 horsepower with no other mods!
After using a Hole Dozer 27mm hole saw and a rotary rasp.
OH, and never re-install without chasing those rusted out threads with a tap!
Lastly, clean the mating surface and sheck for level. if there are any gaps you will need to plane the surface
I always take a wire wheel to the vin and block numbers to make sure I have the original engine and I can document it.
The next step it to replace the timing chain. The fact is that after 100k miles, your chain will develop a lot of slop. Even as easily as this engine has been driven, you can see the slack on the left side of the chain. Badly loosened chains will actually have broken the guide tabs off!
This is what it should look like. And if you are keeping the stock crankshaft drive gear (which I am because it is in perfect condition) then it takes 2 minutes work! Notice the timing marks pointing towards each other indicating TDC.
Next, replace the front crankshaft seal and put on the new waterpump! Make sure to clean the mating surfaces well before installing the new gaskets with a thin film of RTV as a bonding agent.
Lastly, install the new flywheel, clutch and pressureplate, ANd throw-out bearing before spening 45 minutes thrying to wrestle the tranny and engine together.
Tomorrow I will work on the wiring harness, cross-over pipe from the donor car (the stock Auto Tranny cross-over will not work), then bolt all the accessories on.
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 11-04-2019).]
Lastly, install the new flywheel, clutch and pressureplate, ANd throw-out bearing before spening 45 minutes thrying to wrestle the tranny and engine together.
To make this easier (and it should be much less than 45 minutes)...
1. Hang the transaxle using two 18mm cradle bolts in the top two transaxle holes
2. While putting forward pressure on the transaxle, rotate the engine using either a remote starter (making short presses on the button), or with a 19mm socket on the bolt at the center of the harmonic balancer usually a two person job). The transaxle should pop into place .
3. Put all of the other bolts in place and tighten on the transaxle. Then remove the cradle bolts and put the correct bolts in place. Done.
Did you replace the timing cover, or just cleaned up the original?
Thanks,
The cover is original, just cleaned-up.
I did replace the cam gear but not the crank gear. Ideally, you should replace both (and I do have a puller) but the crank gear was so unworn that I elected to save the time and effort.
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 05-30-2021).]
