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Power Steering by ARFiero
Started on: 03-01-2017 02:05 PM
Replies: 15 (553 views)
Last post by: pmbrunelle on 03-07-2017 12:52 PM
ARFiero
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Report this Post03-01-2017 02:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ARFieroClick Here to Email ARFieroSend a Private Message to ARFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was wondering if anyone has looked at the Honda S2000 EPS steering rack as a swap? Saw a unit the other day and it seemed a good candidate.

Shelby
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dobey
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Report this Post03-01-2017 02:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a couple sitting in my garage waiting for me to get the time to work on my car and get it swapped in.

I think it will work with custom tie rod ends, though. I have a rack and controller, just no time to do everything I want.
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mr_corean
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Report this Post03-01-2017 02:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mr_coreanSend a Private Message to mr_coreanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
darbysan just completed a vue electric conversion on his car that seems pretty straight forward. I'll tell him to post in here on it if you want.
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ARFiero
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Report this Post03-01-2017 03:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ARFieroClick Here to Email ARFieroSend a Private Message to ARFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dobey, let me know how it works out.

Mr_corean that would be great!

[This message has been edited by ARFiero (edited 03-01-2017).]

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Fiero Vice
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Report this Post03-02-2017 03:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero ViceSend a Private Message to Fiero ViceEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

I have a couple sitting in my garage waiting for me to get the time to work on my car and get it swapped in.

I think it will work with custom tie rod ends, though. I have a rack and controller, just no time to do everything I want.


I definitely would be interested to know if it really works. Should I purchase this part or wait? Hmm
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seajai
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Report this Post03-02-2017 08:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for seajaiSend a Private Message to seajaiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How are you controlling the electronics for the electric motor?
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dobey
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Report this Post03-02-2017 09:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

How are you controlling the electronics for the electric motor?


For the S2000/NSX rack, I have an S2000 control module. It's separate and easy to wire up.
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dobey
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Report this Post03-02-2017 09:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero Vice:
I definitely would be interested to know if it really works. Should I purchase this part or wait? Hmm


For the little bit I looked at it so far, it shouldn't be hard to do. The wiring is fairly easy, as the controller is a separate module. IIRC, the steering angle sensor is in the rack itself too, so shouldn't even need a newer steering column/wheel to get that. I think the hard parts would be getting the mounting height right and getting the brackets in, and getting the right tie rods for it.
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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post03-02-2017 12:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


For the little bit I looked at it so far, it shouldn't be hard to do. The wiring is fairly easy, as the controller is a separate module. IIRC, the steering angle sensor is in the rack itself too, so shouldn't even need a newer steering column/wheel to get that. I think the hard parts would be getting the mounting height right and getting the brackets in, and getting the right tie rods for it.


I doubt there is a steering angle sensor, but there is certainly a user torque sensor, somewhere in the setup.

The big question is how will the Honda module work without receiving CAN messages? In a fixed-gain screwball fashion, maybe?

Someone should rent/borrow a Honda S2000, and then log the CAN bus traffic. The messages relevant to the EPS should be deduced, and then spoofed by another box for use in a Fiero. Vehicle speed is obviously critical to have.

For CAN logging, I use an IXXAT USB-to-CAN converter, and their free MiniMon CAN logger software.
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dobey
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Report this Post03-02-2017 01:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:


I doubt there is a steering angle sensor, but there is certainly a user torque sensor, somewhere in the setup.

The big question is how will the Honda module work without receiving CAN messages? In a fixed-gain screwball fashion, maybe?

Someone should rent/borrow a Honda S2000, and then log the CAN bus traffic. The messages relevant to the EPS should be deduced, and then spoofed by another box for use in a Fiero. Vehicle speed is obviously critical to have.

For CAN logging, I use an IXXAT USB-to-CAN converter, and their free MiniMon CAN logger software.


Because AP1 S2000 was not a CAN bus car. The AP2 (2nd Gen S2000) parts can't be used, I don't think. The DLC wire isn't required for the control module to work. There's inputs for the sensor input directly, for tach and VSS. I don't know what the PPM value for those two are, though.
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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post03-02-2017 06:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Because AP1 S2000 was not a CAN bus car. The AP2 (2nd Gen S2000) parts can't be used, I don't think. The DLC wire isn't required for the control module to work. There's inputs for the sensor input directly, for tach and VSS. I don't know what the PPM value for those two are, though.


Seems relatively simple if there's none of that CAN rubbish then. I guess whoever would want to install a Honda EPS in a Fiero would need to learn about the Honda; find Honda schematics, and possibly probe a running car.
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Report this Post03-02-2017 09:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:


Seems relatively simple if there's none of that CAN rubbish then. I guess whoever would want to install a Honda EPS in a Fiero would need to learn about the Honda; find Honda schematics, and possibly probe a running car.


Done pretty much all of that. I have the rack, controller, and an S2000 service manual with the wiring diagrams. There's a data link wire for using a Honda PGM-FI tool to see what codes are stored in the steering module, and an output wire to tell the ECM to increase the idle speed. And one wire to trigger the EPS warning light in the dash if something is wrong with it.

Though, honestly, even without the the controller, the S2000 rack is a better rack, because it's a variable ratio, and I think it is quicker than the Fiero steering ratio (but having a little trouble finding exact numbers).
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darbysan
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Report this Post03-05-2017 12:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darbysanClick Here to Email darbysanSend a Private Message to darbysanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mr_corean:

darbysan just completed a vue electric conversion on his car that seems pretty straight forward. I'll tell him to post in here on it if you want.


Just finished my install of the Vue EPS. I followed two threads here on the site, and found them very thorough. I did not need to use any machining or lathe work- just angle grinder, cut off wheel, reciprocating saw, die grinder, and welder. I bought a steering column so I could do most of the work on the bench, and that worked out great. Could be done easily in a weekend, with some planning. Hardest part was getting my old, fat body under the dash!! Total cost to me was under $175 ( including Ebay Controller module).

I debated going with an electro/hydraulic or hydraulic system ( my 3800 has the power steering pump too!) but I found the projected overall cost to be about triple the cost of the EPS unit, messier, and required a re-alignment ( just had mine done- more expense).

I wrote up my experiences to add to the threads below , but lost them before I could hit save I'll try and add them today. Edit: DONE: Here are my additional tips to add to the reference posts below: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/139446.html

For reference:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/095326.html
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/138106.html

For alternative boxes, http://www.ffcars.com/forum...o-caster-issues.html


------------------
'87 GT , '00 3800 Series II SC, 4t65e.

[This message has been edited by darbysan (edited 03-07-2017).]

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engine man
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Report this Post03-05-2017 04:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
? have any of you seen a steering quickener installed with it so you get the best of both worlds
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darbysan
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Report this Post03-07-2017 11:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darbysanClick Here to Email darbysanSend a Private Message to darbysanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Have not seen a quickener, but when I measured mine, it was just under 2 turns Lock to Lock. Any less than than, and I think driving it could get pretty twitchy.

------------------
'87 GT , '00 3800 Series II SC, 4t65e.

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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post03-07-2017 12:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you put a steering quickener on the input side of the EPS, take caution.

As steering rate increases, so does the back-emf generated by the electric motor. At a certain critical speed, it becomes impossible to inject any more current into the motor due to excess back-emf. The power steering then drags you down, rather than assisting. This can be noticed even while palming the steering wheel rapidly in some cheap econo-cars.

I don't know if the Vue EPS has a high critical speed or not.
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