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New to the forums by 2703adam
Started on: 01-07-2016 06:50 PM
Replies: 45 (727 views)
Last post by: lorennerol on 02-18-2016 09:52 PM
2703adam
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Report this Post01-07-2016 06:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2703adamSend a Private Message to 2703adamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hello everyone! I just want to introduce myself...

I have been lurking on this site for a few years now, but I have loved fiero's for as long as I can remeber. Well, a few years ago I was finally able to find a 88 fiero gt for sale with 65,000 miles on it. The only problem is it had been wrecked in the front end. (not bad, it just messed up everything up to the radiator) Well, lucky for me my uncle is a car/metal/parts fabricator, and the 88 came with another car that was wrecked in the back but the front was perfect. Long story short, we cut off the front of both cars and put them together to make the good one complete again. According to the previous owner, it had been sitting since 1998ish when he wrecked it, then I bought it and it has been sitting for a few more years, but now I am at the point to where I can start working on it.


So... after saying all that, I just want to say I look forward to getting to know everyone here and thanks in advance for answering all the questions I'm sure I'll have.


-Adam
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Thunderstruck GT
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Report this Post01-07-2016 06:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Another '88 GT owner - Check!

Welcome! What color is it and what transmission?
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Jason88Notchie
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Report this Post01-07-2016 06:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jason88NotchieClick Here to Email Jason88NotchieSend a Private Message to Jason88NotchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Welcome!!
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2703adam
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Report this Post01-07-2016 07:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2703adamSend a Private Message to 2703adamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just saw the 88 database thread and was going to post in there, but I'll just put it here:

It is black with gray cloth interior, it has that dot matrix pattern on all the interior trim pieces, and has the black lace wheels with the polished lips.
Also, it is a 5 Speed, manual.

The Vin is 1G2PG1197JP219032

The car has 65,075 miles on it.


Also, I pulled the tank and cleaned it and replaced the sending unit, pump, and screen when I got the car (few years ago) but I could never get it to crank. (It would start with starting fluid, but not run) I think the new fuel pump is a problem. I jumpered it and applied 12 volts directly to it and it doesn't run..... So I will be pulling the tank again soon.
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Report this Post01-07-2016 07:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2703adam:

It is black with gray cloth interior, it has that dot matrix pattern on all the interior trim pieces, and has the black lace wheels with the polished lips.
Also, it is a 5 Speed, manual.


This ^ ^ ^ is standard in all '88 GT's

[This message has been edited by Thunderstruck GT (edited 01-07-2016).]

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2703adam
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Report this Post01-07-2016 07:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2703adamSend a Private Message to 2703adamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry, I wasn't sure. My dad has a 87 notchback with the iron duke and his is different. That is the only other fiero I've seen in person, so I wasn't sure. (My parts fiero didn't have any interior)
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Thunderstruck GT
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Report this Post01-07-2016 07:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
LOL

And now you know.

'88 Formulas are set up the same way.

[This message has been edited by Thunderstruck GT (edited 01-07-2016).]

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Danyel
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Report this Post01-07-2016 08:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DanyelClick Here to visit Danyel's HomePageSend a Private Message to DanyelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Welcome to the madness..... 88's are at the top of the food chain
regards
Danyel
------------------

Black Widow Build Thread 2007 - 2014 Tylers Toy
My Low Profile Buckets for sale My LED Sidemarkers for sale

[This message has been edited by Danyel (edited 01-07-2016).]

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Raydar
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Report this Post01-07-2016 08:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Welcome to our obsession!

When you get a few, check out the Georgia Fiero Club's web page. www.gafiero.org
There are several folks in the club who live in or around Augusta.

------------------
Raydar
88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550

Praise the Lowered!

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 01-07-2016).]

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Shho13
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Report this Post01-07-2016 11:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Shho13Click Here to Email Shho13Send a Private Message to Shho13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Welcome!

------------------
"Discord"
Red 1988 GT under restoration!

Let's Go Mets!

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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Kitskaboodle
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Report this Post01-08-2016 12:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KitskaboodleClick Here to Email KitskaboodleSend a Private Message to KitskaboodleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Regarding your fuel pump, you need to ensure the female spade connectors are really attached snugly. Did you ensure this?
Kit
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2703adam
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Report this Post01-08-2016 12:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2703adamSend a Private Message to 2703adamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Kit, are you referring to the one you unplug from the engine bay? I haven't looked at it in a while, but I think I remember there being one there.... or is there another one somewhere else. It's been so long, I'll be pulling the tank again this weekend, but i'm pretty sure there was a three prong connector that I could reach from the top and that is what I jumpered 12 volts directly to.
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Report this Post01-08-2016 01:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2703adam:

...there was a three prong connector that I could reach from the top and that is what I jumpered 12 volts directly to.


Apply 12v to the fuel pump terminal of the ALDL port. This is the standard way to bypass the relay and test the fuel pump.

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Report this Post01-08-2016 09:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PontiacTateSend a Private Message to PontiacTateEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Howdy and welcome. I'm still new to the Fiero world and this site. But, there has been some great information I've found here and nice people to help out with questions.
Tate
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2703adam
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Report this Post01-08-2016 09:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2703adamSend a Private Message to 2703adamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bare with me now....but when jumpering straight from the battery.... I do need to apply one lead to the ground connector and one to the fuel pump connector correct? This will make up 12 volts.

(I don't currently have a battery in the car. That is why I'm asking)
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Report this Post01-08-2016 11:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Welcome to the forum! The Augusta portion of the Ga Fieros club meets the first Saturday of each month at coffee and cars event in Martinez on Washington rd. Will we see you there?
Ron

Edited to add pm sent

[This message has been edited by f85gtron (edited 01-08-2016).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post01-08-2016 11:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2703adam:

Bare with me now....but when jumpering straight from the battery.... I do need to apply one lead to the ground connector and one to the fuel pump connector correct? This will make up 12 volts.


That would probably be fine, but when I've done it I've connected the negative from the battery directly to the frame of the car (using a regular jumper cable).
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Report this Post01-08-2016 12:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pgackemanClick Here to Email pgackemanSend a Private Message to pgackemanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Another Fiero owner in the CSRA! Looking forward to meeting you and seeing your car.
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sardonyx247
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Report this Post01-09-2016 12:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If it has sat that long the fuel injectors are most likely plugged and that's why it won't run, can you hear the pump run?, (put your ear by the shifter) and that is a lot of miles for "sitting" since the year it came out, I wouldn't believe the last owner.
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Report this Post01-09-2016 07:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for robert1234Click Here to Email robert1234Send a Private Message to robert1234Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Welcome !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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2703adam
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Report this Post01-09-2016 07:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2703adamSend a Private Message to 2703adamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The car had been sitting since 1998, not 88, which made me think it actually was pretty low miles, even for the 10 years it was driven.

I know for a fact that when I replaced the fuel pump, I would listen to it prime then try to crank the car. It would not crank, so I didn't do anything with it for a while. It was being stored at my Dad's house at that time, so I hardly had a chance to work on it. Well, eventually, several months later, I got it to my house and started messing with it again. This time I could most definitely NOT hear the fuel pump run, even when I applied 12 volts directly to it. It would click, but nothing else.

Now, keep in mind this was almost 3 years ago when I last worked on it.

If it is the injectors, which sounds likely, is there a method of cleaning them, or do I have to replace them?

(Also, I am still going to jumper the fuel pump and see if it runs)
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Report this Post01-09-2016 08:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for David HambletonClick Here to Email David HambletonSend a Private Message to David HambletonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had an '87 parts car with an inoperative fuel pump. I wanted to run the engine as I planned to put it in my '86.
I took the pump out and connected it to a battery; after making and breaking the connection quickly many times it came to life.
I ran it occasionally for a year and a half with the pump intake submerged in gas in a water bottle.
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Report this Post01-09-2016 08:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IndyellowgtClick Here to Email IndyellowgtSend a Private Message to IndyellowgtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Awesome.. Welcome to the family!

Lots and lots of good people here and all the info in the archives and Ogre's cave..

Enjoy!

Mark
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Report this Post01-09-2016 08:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2703adam:


If it is the injectors, which sounds likely, is there a method of cleaning them, or do I have to replace them?



These guys will clean and flow match the injectors for you.
https://secure.fuelinjectorconnection.com/shop/
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sardonyx247
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Report this Post01-09-2016 12:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If the car has sat for 3 years, the gas is bad, the pump probably is bad, and almost for sure the injectors are clogged after 17 years sitting.

After you change the pump, you can add a high concentration of injector cleaner and jumper the pump for a while(hours) you might get lucky and the flow by of cleaner might break up the bad gas clogging them, try to crank it every once in a while, while the pump is jumpered to get a pulse to the injectors, even if it starts for a sec continue with the pump jumpered to let the cleaner eat more.

Other wise the link above is really not a bad price for cleaning at $75 for a set of 6, then you can be sure they all flow the same.

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 01-09-2016).]

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2703adam
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Report this Post01-09-2016 03:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2703adamSend a Private Message to 2703adamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rock auto has a close out on Bosch injectors right now for $19.99 each. Would it be better just to buy new ones?
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Report this Post01-09-2016 04:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If they are indeed the correct 15# pintle style injectors, yes,.
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2703adam
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Report this Post01-09-2016 06:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2703adamSend a Private Message to 2703adamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm afraid I don't know enough about injectors and the rock auto site isn't really all that clear on what they are, so I'm thinking my best bet is just to get mine cleaned and rebuilt. Is there anything else I should do while I'm doing all of this. I replaced the fuel filter when I did the fuel pump about 3 years ago, should this need to be done again since no fuel really ran through it? I also replaced the EGR valve, because the factory one had rusted and broke in half at the flange.

I know the obvious things like oil change, maybe spark plugs...Is there anything I'm missing?
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Report this Post01-09-2016 08:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Jon at FIC is familiar with Fieros, having raced them as a young man. If you have them cleaned and/or rebuilt, send your cold start injector along with them. If they can't be rebuilt, they have their own Blue Demon brand that are very reasonable. He can match them up to what you need. Just verify with them that they're pintle style injectors. Tell them Georgia Fieros sent you.
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Report this Post01-09-2016 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:

Just verify with them that they're pintle style injectors.


Charlie, what is it you don't like about the multec style injectors?

 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick in This thread:

The archives here contain plenty of threads of people discussing Multec injectors. As long as the coil resistance is good, and the fuel pressure hasn't been cranked up, they'll be fine. I'm looking forward to running the rebuilt ones I bought.

In this video, the Multec injector is the second one from the left. I like the spray pattern.



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Report this Post01-09-2016 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My experience with them, and the experience of the local Fiero mechanic that did my 3.4, my brother's and a quite a few other 3.4 swaps using the Rochester Multecs, leaving the stock fuel pressure regulator and ECM, had problems with running rich. Sometimes very very rich. Others on this forum have said that they had problems, and some have said that the stock programmed ECM has problems managing the pulse width.

Personally, if I can get something that's plug and play, not requiring custom chips or adjustable fuel pressure regulators, that's the way I go and what I would recommend to anyone else. It reduces variables, I know there have also been many who have used the Rochester Multec 17# injectors in their 3.4 swaps and not had any problems. I don't know if their ECM and regulator were stock, or not.

Jon Banner of FIC is the one who did that video and recommended my Bosch BMW injectors for several of our peeps down here. Neither the BMW nor Rochesters would be appropriate for the OP's engine since he's running a stock 2.8.

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 01-09-2016).]

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Report this Post01-10-2016 01:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:

Personally, if I can get something that's plug and play, not requiring custom chips or adjustable fuel pressure regulators, that's the way I go and what I would recommend to anyone else.

Jon Banner of FIC is the one who did that video and recommended my Bosch BMW injectors for several of our peeps down here. Neither the BMW nor Rochesters (multec) would be appropriate for the OP's engine since he's running a stock 2.8.


Well, that's just it... I swapped multecs into my stock 2.8 (which I then swapped 1.6 roller-tip rockers into a month or so later) and it appears to run great. I ordered the multecs only after reading many positive reports here of other PFF members running them in their 2.8's.

IMO, installing the multecs was "plug and play". They eliminated the smell of raw fuel that I was getting with the original pintle injectors. I've got to admit though that once I swapped the 1.6 rockers in, I can again smell raw fuel at idle... but I don't know if it would be fair to blame the multec injectors themselves for that.
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Report this Post01-10-2016 11:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IndyellowgtClick Here to Email IndyellowgtSend a Private Message to IndyellowgtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2703adam:

I'm afraid I don't know enough about injectors and the rock auto site isn't really all that clear on what they are, so I'm thinking my best bet is just to get mine cleaned and rebuilt.


Just an FYI...

I am a big supporter of Rock Auto..

But I did buy a bunch of the "closeout" injectors and all but one turned out to be the correct 15# pintle type..
The others would have fit the rail,built all had a wide variety of nozzles on their ends.. Most of the packages I could see had been opened,returned,opened,returned....


I sent them back and I am in the process now to find the correct injectors . I do believe they have them, just going to be more expensive.

Good luck!
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Report this Post01-10-2016 06:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Charlie,
Fyi, the difference between multecs are not Just in your head. There is a "multec fixing factor" scaler in some code masks that change some math in the ecm. I don't know any more than that.
Ron
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Report this Post01-10-2016 06:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by f85gtron:

There is a "multec fixing factor" scaler in some code masks that change some math in the ecm.


I tried to find out what you might be referring to, and the best I could find was This. However, that seems to be in reference to a surging/hunting idle issue, something I've never experienced with my Formula's 2.8 engine running multec injectors.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-10-2016).]

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2703adam
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Report this Post01-10-2016 07:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2703adamSend a Private Message to 2703adamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just an update, I have a friend that owns a business here in Augusta that specializes in turbo's, fuel injection and fuel management, that kind of thing, and he told me to bring my injectors to him and he would clean them for me!

I'm working nights this weekend, but when I get off Tuesday morning, I'm going to pull them and drop them off with him. I'm also planning on dropping the tank and replacing the fuel pump either Tues or Weds, along with picking up a battery, changing the oil, and flushing the clutch fluid.


I'm starting to get excited about this thing again!
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Report this Post01-10-2016 09:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

I tried to find out what you might be referring to, and the best I could find was This. However, that seems to be in reference to a surging/hunting idle issue, something I've never experienced with my Formula's 2.8 engine running multec injectors.



It may not be a scaler, it's labeled as KF94MAP in $88 and has a description of "multec injector fixing factor". I haven't played with it and i have no idea how it does anything. I just know it's there, so it's been an issue at some point to someone at some time

That link about the bpw vs bpw is interesting. I've got a similar problem with my tune where when i lean them out to chase down blms, i get hunting and stalling at idle. The solution has been to just run pig rich at idle. I'm gonna have to play with this info a little more!
Ron
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Report this Post01-10-2016 09:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2703adam:

Just an update, I have a friend that owns a business here in Augusta that specializes in turbo's, fuel injection and fuel management, that kind of thing, and he told me to bring my injectors to him and he would clean them for me!

I'm working nights this weekend, but when I get off Tuesday morning, I'm going to pull them and drop them off with him. I'm also planning on dropping the tank and replacing the fuel pump either Tues or Weds, along with picking up a battery, changing the oil, and flushing the clutch fluid.


I'm starting to get excited about this thing again!


If you get brave enough, you can clean them yourself. I've been doing it this way for a while now and have had no problems. Be careful as to what cleaner you choose because some say it's possible to clean the protective layer off the windings in the injector.

try this
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Patrick
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Report this Post01-10-2016 11:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by f85gtron:

That link about the bpw vs bpw is interesting. I've got a similar problem with my tune where when i lean them out to chase down blms, i get hunting and stalling at idle. The solution has been to just run pig rich at idle. I'm gonna have to play with this info a little more!


It sounds like you know a whole lot more about EFI than I do. When I look at logged data from WinALDL, all I can do is shrug.

I was disappointed that the exhaust smelled so rich at idle after I had installed the 1.6 rockers, but I certainly can't complain with how the 2.8 runs either on the street or at autocross with the multec injectors. Lots of power (relatively speaking!) and sounds great. If there was a method of "tuning" away the rich idle, I'd love to do it or have it done.

Ron, does the discussion in the following thread HERE mean anything to you?

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-10-2016).]

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f85gtron
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Report this Post01-11-2016 12:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
YES! That's what I was referring to, but don't know enough about it to referrer to it directly. It appears as though it's some kind of factor that's adjustable just for multecs. Great find! Looks like i found something new to play with! Thanks!
Ron
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