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Has anyone seen this before? V6 Intake cover by lurtz
Started on: 10-25-2015 09:56 AM
Replies: 90 (3082 views)
Last post by: 2.5 on 11-09-2016 08:40 AM
hyperv6
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Report this Post10-03-2016 06:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The intake as stated would give more torque in theory but here is the issue.

You can make the change here with more air and longer runners but unless you redo the computer to read for it the gains are limited to non existent. The computer is a closed loop and unlike a mass air it will not adjust for such changes. So in the end you may see a small gain but not worth all the cost.

Also I can not see the photos of the car but did it have a modified deck lid? Pontiac had to lower the intake vs the Chevy because of clearance.

In the end Pontiac did put a lot of work into the intake to make it work well and fit with the computer. I am not sure this change would do much. Even on Carbs the gains are limited with out computers. This is why Tunnel Rams are so tall.

Also the taller it is the higher the torque band and it will move it away from the low end. My tunnel rammed car I had did not want to till I hit 3500, A small spacer like this may have no affect but something to consider.

You want a real gain take the exhaust manifolds and clean them up inside where they are welded. That is one area that does work. .
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E.Furgal
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Report this Post10-03-2016 07:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

The intake as stated would give more torque in theory but here is the issue.

You can make the change here with more air and longer runners but unless you redo the computer to read for it the gains are limited to non existent. The computer is a closed loop and unlike a mass air it will not adjust for such changes. So in the end you may see a small gain but not worth all the cost.

Also I can not see the photos of the car but did it have a modified deck lid? Pontiac had to lower the intake vs the Chevy because of clearance.

In the end Pontiac did put a lot of work into the intake to make it work well and fit with the computer. I am not sure this change would do much. Even on Carbs the gains are limited with out computers. This is why Tunnel Rams are so tall.

Also the taller it is the higher the torque band and it will move it away from the low end. My tunnel rammed car I had did not want to till I hit 3500, A small spacer like this may have no affect but something to consider.

You want a real gain take the exhaust manifolds and clean them up inside where they are welded. That is one area that does work. .


many an engine has gained power from a 1/2 to 2" spacer.. so this should be no different..
yes the ecu can't make up for it, but upping the fuel psi on the mechanical fuel reg can.
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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post10-03-2016 08:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks like the start of a bolt-on nitrous or water injection install!
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hyperv6
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Report this Post10-04-2016 07:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:


many an engine has gained power from a 1/2 to 2" spacer.. so this should be no different..
yes the ecu can't make up for it, but upping the fuel psi on the mechanical fuel reg can.


You are missing your key point here. Most engines and this being not one of them.

To do this right you need to make some there changes as the computer will not understand the change in the intake flow and adding more fuel is just going to make it too rich. The computer is a closed loop system and putting more air in or changing much els has little to no effect as the computer is not adjusting to it like a mass air system will do.

This is why many of the early fox body Mustang guys had to change out computers and systems to a mass air as they were not seeing much if any changes as the computer reads RPM and puts in what is required.

Even if this worked the results are limited to only a coupe HP and a couple FT LBS at best.

In many cases the spacers can create a bog on carb cars if not tuned for it.

Sorry but life is not a simple bolt on in this case and in the reality of the closes loop system on a 140 HP engine the results will be not worth the work.

Cranking up the regulator will just add to the cost if you do not have one and a major risk of going to rich and affecting drive ability here if you do not do it right.

I am not going to argue the point. I just make my statement for those that could go down this path and spend time and money on this for little to no result. Best to warn them up front.

It is no wonder so few people post here anymore. It is one thing to disagree from time to time but you argue with so many all the time.
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E.Furgal
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Report this Post10-04-2016 08:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the turbo buick guys have been adding air flow and upping the fuel psi for years..
but your mileage may vary..
upping the psi doesn't make it go rich, unless you go to far.. only way it go rich is if the upgrades didn't add any air flow, if it added air flow, and you add fuel.. it say's yum..
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hyperv6
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Report this Post10-04-2016 10:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:

the turbo buick guys have been adding air flow and upping the fuel psi for years..
but your mileage may vary..
upping the psi doesn't make it go rich, unless you go to far.. only way it go rich is if the upgrades didn't add any air flow, if it added air flow, and you add fuel.. it say's yum..


Well here you go again arguing.

The Buick turbo is a MASS AIR FLOW Engine and it compensates for the flow and for the change in flow. The Fiero is a closed loop system that only reads the chip not the flow of the air.

To get this to work and work right you need to tune it generally at WOT and using a fuel air ratio meter and on a dyno. The gains will vary with the vehicle and systems you are using. Here on a stock Fiero engine you will see little gain even if you sort out the fuel system properly.

Turbo systems that measure the incoming fuel like a Buick or even My Chevy you can toss more fuel at it turn up the boost to take advantage of it. NA engines the gains are less to not at all depending on the application.

Now on a Chevy 2.8 V6 the engine in non Pontiac applications like in a say a Citation X-11 or Celebrity ES it was a mass air flow engine and you can do a little more as the engine will compensate for the change in air flow. Even then a spacer like this is very limited in what it will do on this particular engine.

https://www.aeromotiveinc.c...-with-fuel-pressure/



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steve308
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Report this Post10-24-2016 08:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for steve308Send a Private Message to steve308Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If it doesn't hurt or help..... I still like the way it looks.
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post10-24-2016 11:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Adding the spacer gives a look that's nice and may shift the torque curve in the scale but I cannot see this modification providing more horsepower. The lower intake is still the same and the injector bosses sit right in the middle of the lower port.

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2.5
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Report this Post10-25-2016 08:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Odd this exists and no one on the Fiero forum has used it.
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unboundmo
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Report this Post11-07-2016 10:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for unboundmoClick Here to Email unboundmoSend a Private Message to unboundmoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

Odd this exists and no one on the Fiero forum has used it.


Actually, the spacer shown in the picture is mine and I run it now... Denise is probably right about the torque curve but I would have to add that the acceleration in rpm is more consistent with the slight adjustment of this curve.. If that makes sense. I do feel, however, that it breathes a little better in the higher range.. But then I ported the plenum too...although, The spacers were installed after the porting - after smog.. So I did have a chance to feel the difference. I wouldn't say there is a horse power difference per say either but then again, more volume in the plenum to breathe

I have no dino results. Sorry


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[This message has been edited by unboundmo (edited 11-07-2016).]

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2.5
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Report this Post11-09-2016 08:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by unboundmo:


Actually, the spacer shown in the picture is mine and I run it now... Denise is probably right about the torque curve but I would have to add that the acceleration in rpm is more consistent with the slight adjustment of this curve.. If that makes sense. I do feel, however, that it breathes a little better in the higher range.. But then I ported the plenum too...although, The spacers were installed after the porting - after smog.. So I did have a chance to feel the difference. I wouldn't say there is a horse power difference per say either but then again, more volume in the plenum to breathe

I have no dino results. Sorry



Cool, yeah its probably hard to measure. I have to paint my plenum soon anyway, and if I'm taking it off anyway ...
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