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big block by ironhead.76
Started on: 02-13-2014 07:54 PM
Replies: 24 (976 views)
Last post by: ironhead.76 on 02-15-2014 03:49 PM
ironhead.76
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Report this Post02-13-2014 07:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ironhead.76Click Here to visit ironhead.76's HomePageClick Here to Email ironhead.76Send a Private Message to ironhead.76Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok guys I have a 86 as that I have as a doner car for my 88 project. Well my wife made a HUGE mistake. She told me if I don't go stupid crazy and keep the 88 somewhat stock ( supercharged 3800) I can go but wild with the 86.

Well I was digging around my brain talking to some car enthusiasts and then I seen the YouTube video. A big block fiero. Well I researched a power train and found an olds tornado. Big block carburated front wheel drive.

Talked to a buddy of mine and he knows where one is with 77k miles. The guy is asking $400.00. What a deal.

Now before I take on such an enforcer what are your guys thoughts?
Has anyone token on such a task?

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Gall757
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Report this Post02-13-2014 08:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For all you young drivers out there.....this is what the OP is talking about.........revolutionary in 1966.

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 02-13-2014).]

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GBglide
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Report this Post02-13-2014 08:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GBglideClick Here to visit GBglide's HomePageClick Here to Email GBglideSend a Private Message to GBglideEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a couple of questions. How much does a big block weigh, and how will it effect handling?
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tebailey
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Report this Post02-13-2014 08:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tebaileyClick Here to Email tebaileySend a Private Message to tebaileyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Lots of bracing and reinforcing, and a lot HEAVIER suspension. The torque of a big block could cause a lot of twisting force. But if you do it, I WANT TO DRIVE IT!!!!
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ironhead.76
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Report this Post02-13-2014 09:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ironhead.76Click Here to visit ironhead.76's HomePageClick Here to Email ironhead.76Send a Private Message to ironhead.76Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If I do the swap I was thinking on dropping the cradle out the tornado and fitting it to the fiero. That way the mounts are all ready there and the suspension. As far as the handling, it's going to be one those trial and error things as I am not as intelligent in that subject as I would like to be. The main use would be a street legal door slammer quarter mile car.

I am not sure the weight but I do know the 375 no motor will not know it's attached to a vehicle. The fiero weight is 3000 lb less than the tornado does
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Report this Post02-13-2014 09:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mwzephyrClick Here to Email mwzephyrSend a Private Message to mwzephyrEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Iron head,
Great idea, just need to work out thee torsion that may be transmitted thru the car front to rear. (Twisting forces) I believe it can be done. We have several "engineer" types here who might just help if you ask.
Burn rubber brother!
~Zep

[This message has been edited by mwzephyr (edited 02-13-2014).]

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Csjag
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Report this Post02-13-2014 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Should be able to do wheelies!
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hnthomps
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Report this Post02-13-2014 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Go for it if you like but take some measurements and see how/if you may be able to fit it in a Fiero. I do not know the physical dimensions of a big block GM engine but I did manage to get a SBC 383 operational in an 88 (closer struts than your vehicle) but it did require some frame notching and use of an electric water pump to make it look good and fit.







Nelson
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ironhead.76
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Report this Post02-13-2014 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ironhead.76Click Here to visit ironhead.76's HomePageClick Here to Email ironhead.76Send a Private Message to ironhead.76Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The at I look at things is there is no such thing as it won't fit, just gotta make it fit. I did install a la hd 360 motor and 518 trans in my 95 dodge truck. For those who don't know. I installed a throttle body injection engine and trans that came out a one ton van. It was converted to carburated. That's my every dayer. So I know I can make anything fit and function.
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Bloozberry
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Report this Post02-13-2014 10:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Check out this archived thread for some idea what you're up against: www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives...130314-2-111704.html
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Patrick
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Report this Post02-13-2014 10:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ironhead.76:

Has anyone token on such a task?


The automatic tranny kills it for me, but this is a similar concept...

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Report this Post02-14-2014 12:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroCanadaClick Here to Email FieroCanadaSend a Private Message to FieroCanadaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

The automatic tranny kills it for me, but this is a similar concept...



I seen that on youtube a while ago, I want to see it go for a drive!
must be a beast
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olejoedad
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Report this Post02-14-2014 06:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Already been done with the TH375 and a 455 Olds - and its supercharged.

Videos are all over U-Tube, and you should be able to find pics in old Daytona threads here on the Forum.
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Report this Post02-14-2014 10:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I saw a lot of exhaust smoke coming out in the engine compartment, probably couldn't drive it with the deck lid on without burning it up due to engine heat. I was surprised it didn't sound better, just my opinion and that's not worth much to anyone but me. I agree on the auto transmission, I have no desire for an automatic either.
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2.5
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Report this Post02-14-2014 11:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I sat next to the owner of this at the 30th Fiero anniversary show. Has Toronado setup:






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woodyhere
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Report this Post02-14-2014 03:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for woodyhereClick Here to Email woodyhereSend a Private Message to woodyhereEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You could go with Caddys version with a 500 CID V8. It's the same transaxle. I'm pretty sure the Caddy is lighter than the 455. I put this set up in the back of a Ford van. It would be different.
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conan469
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Report this Post02-14-2014 03:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for conan469Click Here to visit conan469's HomePageClick Here to Email conan469Send a Private Message to conan469Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
longitude mount
flip diff 180 degrees and take out the truck. belts will be where trunk is/was
differential adapter to flip diff

olds and pontiac 455 are heavier than BBC btw

[This message has been edited by conan469 (edited 02-14-2014).]

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ironhead.76
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Report this Post02-14-2014 08:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ironhead.76Click Here to visit ironhead.76's HomePageClick Here to Email ironhead.76Send a Private Message to ironhead.76Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I did see the video on the supercharged BBC in the yellow fiero. That was my inspiration. Is he a member? The caddy approach entered my head but the availability of parts would be sparce. Even though parts for an olds is not a whole lot easier. All I got to do is look up performance parts for a 79 10th anniversary t/a. Lol.

The guy in the video said the fiero frame was strong enough to handle his engine and he uses is as an every day driver.

The fact the it is auto shift does suck. But when is the last time you seen a front wheel drive longitudinal big block Gm with a standard shift transmission?

As far as the torsion of the motor to frame. Keep in mind it's not a front mount engine with a rear wheel drive. I do not know what the twist of the engine will be like. But it's interesting to think about.
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Custom2M4
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Report this Post02-14-2014 08:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Custom2M4Click Here to Email Custom2M4Send a Private Message to Custom2M4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by conan469:

longitude mount
flip diff 180 degrees and take out the truck. belts will be where trunk is/was
differential adapter to flip diff

olds and pontiac 455 are heavier than BBC btw



The Pontiac 455 is 100 pounds lighter than the big block chev.

------------------

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Report this Post02-14-2014 09:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for V8 VegaClick Here to Email V8 VegaSend a Private Message to V8 VegaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
AT hot rod car shows I've seen Tornadoes conversion into a VW pickup and a kit car sports car and several others I can't think of. There was a article in a old Hot Rod magazine a wild guess of around 1980 telling of how someone did this in a Vega. Olds 455 and Cadillac 500 are considerable lighter than a BB Chevy.

[This message has been edited by V8 Vega (edited 02-14-2014).]

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Report this Post02-14-2014 09:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero_Fan_88Click Here to Email Fiero_Fan_88Send a Private Message to Fiero_Fan_88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ironhead.76:
The guy in the video said the fiero frame was strong enough to handle his engine and he uses is as an every day driver.

As far as the torsion of the motor to frame. Keep in mind it's not a front mount engine with a rear wheel drive. I do not know what the twist of the engine will be like. But it's interesting to think about.


Probably not as much as you think. I posted the numbers here

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/093023.html
Owners comments:
the engine is a mid 70 eldo 500 the trans is a 80 riviera 325

1971 500in 365 hp@ 4400 rpm 535 lb·ft@ 2800 rpm
1972 501in 235 hp@ 4400 rpm 385 lb·ft@ 2400 rpm
1973 500in 235 hp@ 4400 rpm 385 lb·ft@ 2400 rpm
1974 500in 210 hp@ 3600 rpm 380 lb·ft@ 2000 rpm
1975 500in 210 hp@ 3600 rpm 380 lb·ft@ 2000 rpm
1976 500in 190 hp@ 3600 rpm 360 lb·ft@ 2000 rpm

If that Toronado is anything later than a 72' I would look for a different platform. The 455 was dropped to 215-250 HP, year depending, and that is a lot of work for such a small gain.
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Report this Post02-14-2014 11:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Custom2M4Click Here to Email Custom2M4Send a Private Message to Custom2M4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88:


Probably not as much as you think. I posted the numbers here

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/093023.html
Owners comments:
the engine is a mid 70 eldo 500 the trans is a 80 riviera 325

1971 500in 365 hp@ 4400 rpm 535 lb·ft@ 2800 rpm
1972 501in 235 hp@ 4400 rpm 385 lb·ft@ 2400 rpm
1973 500in 235 hp@ 4400 rpm 385 lb·ft@ 2400 rpm
1974 500in 210 hp@ 3600 rpm 380 lb·ft@ 2000 rpm
1975 500in 210 hp@ 3600 rpm 380 lb·ft@ 2000 rpm
1976 500in 190 hp@ 3600 rpm 360 lb·ft@ 2000 rpm

If that Toronado is anything later than a 72' I would look for a different platform. The 455 was dropped to 215-250 HP, year depending, and that is a lot of work for such a small gain.


Big blocks aren't 2.8l's.... A flowing exhaust, a new intake, carb, emissions delete, and air cleaner assembly would net over a hundred horsepower. And look at the torque figures, because that's what really counts.
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Raydar
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Report this Post02-14-2014 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88:


Probably not as much as you think. I posted the numbers here

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/093023.html
Owners comments:
the engine is a mid 70 eldo 500 the trans is a 80 riviera 325

1971 500in 365 hp@ 4400 rpm 535 lb·ft@ 2800 rpm
1972 501in 235 hp@ 4400 rpm 385 lb·ft@ 2400 rpm
1973 500in 235 hp@ 4400 rpm 385 lb·ft@ 2400 rpm
1974 500in 210 hp@ 3600 rpm 380 lb·ft@ 2000 rpm
1975 500in 210 hp@ 3600 rpm 380 lb·ft@ 2000 rpm
1976 500in 190 hp@ 3600 rpm 360 lb·ft@ 2000 rpm

If that Toronado is anything later than a 72' I would look for a different platform. The 455 was dropped to 215-250 HP, year depending, and that is a lot of work for such a small gain.


Weren't the calculations changed from Gross to Net HP in 72?
It was about that same time that compression ratios were dropped, too, so it's hard to tell what's what.
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fieroguru
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Report this Post02-15-2014 08:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here is Big Block Fiero's thread. There is quite a bit of drama and the signal to noise ratio is pretty low, but it does have some pics of putting a 500 caddy into an 84 fiero:


http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...090219-1-062869.html


Here are some other longitudinal swaps:




[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 02-15-2014).]

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ironhead.76
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Report this Post02-15-2014 03:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ironhead.76Click Here to visit ironhead.76's HomePageClick Here to Email ironhead.76Send a Private Message to ironhead.76Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
one question that i have. what about bracing/ sub frame connectors? Will any of it be needed.

Evidently it has been done a few times. Has anyone drove one?
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