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Possible 16 inch OEM style aluminum rims by Rodney
Started on: 06-19-2012 08:57 AM
Replies: 66 (5483 views)
Last post by: Mickey_Moose on 03-06-2017 01:41 PM
Rodney
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Report this Post06-19-2012 08:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have found a manufacturer that has a OEM style aluminum rim. It is available in 16 x 7. It is very very close in appearance to the OEM factory 15 inch aluminum rims used on the later Fieros (GT, Formula etc). I am checking on the back spacing. So I wonder about making a one size fits all? Is that possible? The factory front rim on the 1988 is narrower. Is the back spacing different also? They have one mold and if the back spacing is not what we need a new mold will need to be made.

Anyone have any suggestions on a one size fits all?

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Report this Post06-19-2012 09:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
One common size would fit, but not everyone agrees that they would look good on the front of an '88. The stock '86-'87 wheels and the '88 rear wheels are 7" wide with a 30 mm offset. The '88 fronts are 6" wide and have a 37 mm offset.

If you were to use a 7" wheel with a 30 mm offset on the front of an '88, the wheels would stick out 19mm more than the stock front wheels. To use a 7" wide wheel on the front of an '88 and retain the stock outside position of the wheel face, they would need a 49 mm offset, not 30 mm.
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Report this Post06-19-2012 09:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
1 size fits all should be fine and help reduce your cost. I'd go with the 88 fitment, since most upgrade to vented brakes on the 84-87 anyway. 35mm rear and 40-45mm front (I prefer 40mm)

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 06-19-2012).]

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Report this Post06-19-2012 10:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero84FreakClick Here to Email Fiero84FreakSend a Private Message to Fiero84FreakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BV MotorSports:

1 size fits all should be fine and help reduce your cost. I'd go with the 88 fitment, since most upgrade to vented brakes on the 84-87 anyway. 35mm rear and 40-45mm front (I prefer 40mm)



I think what Rodney means by "one size fits all" is there wouldn't be a difference front front wheels to back. That's the current dillemia. If a wheel is made specifically to satisfy 88 specs is going to look slightly strange in regards to being on a pre-88 car, and vise-versa. From what I am reading Rodney is wanting a single wheel tooled that can satisfy all situations.

My personal opinion would be to say go ahead and set it up for pre-88 cars, since there are WAY more pre-88 cars on the road.
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Report this Post06-19-2012 10:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:

One common size would fit, but not everyone agrees that they would look good on the front of an '88. The stock '86-'87 wheels and the '88 rear wheels are 7" wide with a 30 mm offset. The '88 fronts are 6" wide and have a 37 mm offset.

If you were to use a 7" wheel with a 30 mm offset on the front of an '88, the wheels would stick out 19mm more than the stock front wheels. To use a 7" wide wheel on the front of an '88 and retain the stock outside position of the wheel face, they would need a 49 mm offset, not 30 mm.


How would it look on all Fieros if one split the difference. Say 39.5 mm offset.

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Report this Post06-19-2012 10:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero38SCClick Here to Email Fiero38SCSend a Private Message to Fiero38SCEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Couldn't you just mill 19mm off the 30mm offset wheels to make it 49mm? Is there enough material to do that?
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Report this Post06-19-2012 10:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:
How would it look on all Fieros if one split the difference. Say 39.5 mm offset.


Taste is a personal thing. The stock '88 front wheels already stick out too much in my opinion.

 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero38SC:
Couldn't you just mill 19mm off the 30mm offset wheels to make it 49mm? Is there enough material to do that?


That would still result in two different wheel configurations since the lug nut holes would have to be counterbored to different depths depending on which offset you'd want.

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Report this Post06-19-2012 11:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Why not just make two wheels. One for all rear's and then two diff for the fronts (84-87, 88). If they can make one size, they can make two. Also, what about those who want a 8"-9" rear wheel? I think we have all heard more than once "if they only made a 16" rim that looked like the stock crosslace, id buy them". This could be money if they do it right.

(PS - 3000th post)

Rob

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Report this Post06-19-2012 11:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:

Why not just make two wheels.

Rob


The cost to make the casting die or what ever it is called. Not cheap.

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Report this Post06-19-2012 11:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If the lion's share of the cost is fabricating the casting mould, then perhaps Fiero38SC's idea is affordable. Once cast, each wheel has to under go two machining operations no matter what the offset and hole pattern are: milling the mounting face and drilling the lug pattern. If they were to be cast with the mounting face approximately 30 mm from the center line of the rim, then they could conceivably be machined to either 30 or 48. Then, the lug pattern counterbore could be drilled to coincide with the correct offset.
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Report this Post06-19-2012 12:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Silicoan86Click Here to Email Silicoan86Send a Private Message to Silicoan86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I guess I'll be the one to ask, do you have any pictures?
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Report this Post06-19-2012 12:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LZeitgeistClick Here to Email LZeitgeistSend a Private Message to LZeitgeistEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'd love to have 16" OEM-style wheels on my '88 Formula. However, I'd personally only consider it if all the specs for the front and rear wheels matched the factory specs (except for the larger diameter). 2 different offsets, 2 different lip dimensions, just like stock. However, as has been said, there are a lot more pre-'88 Fieros out there than there are '88s, so even going with a single style should still be profitable.

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Report this Post06-19-2012 02:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Or you could do 40mm all round. Add a 5mm spacer for the rear and bam, 35mm offset.
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Report this Post06-19-2012 04:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That would still result in wheels on an '88 that stick out 8mm past stock on the front and tuck in the wheels 5 mm more than stock on everything else. When you only look at the front or only the rear of an '88 then it's not as noticeable, but when you look at one side of the car at a shallow angle, the front wheels will appear to have a 5mm + 8mm = 13mm (or a 1/2") wider track on each side than the rear. It's a solution, yes, but milling the mounting face and countersinking the lug holes to two different offsets is a better one IMHO.
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Report this Post06-19-2012 04:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:

That would still result in wheels on an '88 that stick out 8mm past stock on the front and tuck in the wheels 5 mm more than stock on everything else. When you only look at the front or only the rear of an '88 then it's not as noticeable, but when you look at one side of the car at a shallow angle, the front wheels will appear to have a 5mm + 8mm = 13mm (or a 1/2") wider track on each side than the rear. It's a solution, yes, but milling the mounting face and countersinking the lug holes to two different offsets is a better one IMHO.


You must like your wheels inside of the fender. I prefer flush. Sticking out 8mm more than stock is a good thing (flush). Remember the higher the offset # the more the wheel tucks in, lower moves it out. So with a 40mm offset, you are gonna actually move the wheel in, but (IIRC) we are talking about making a wider rim width will help the offset overall.

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 06-19-2012).]

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Report this Post06-19-2012 04:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BV MotorSports:
You must like your wheels inside of the fender.


The stock wheels and tires on the front of an '88 with stock camber aren't inside the fenders at the top of the tire, and as per my first post, because the new wheel Rodney is proposing is an inch wider than stock, it would need an offset of 49 mm to be at the same location as stock at the road side face. By using a 40 mm offset, it would stick out 9 mm more per side. A lower profile tire will bulge out a little less and account for some of the appearance, but we're only talking about a 16" wheel, not a 17".

 
quote
Originally posted by BV MotorSports:
Remember the higher the offset # the more the wheel tucks in, lower moves it out.


True, but you cannot look at offsets in isolation without considering the rim width since they are interconnected.

 
quote
Originally posted by BV MotorSports:
So with a 40mm offset, you are gonna actually move the wheel in, but (IIRC) we are talking about making a wider rim width will help the offset overall.


The trouble is that the '88 front wheel has a 37mm offset so increasing it to 40 only tucks it in 3 more millimeters... not enough needed to compensate for the 1" wider rim, so the overall effect is that it still sticks it out more by 9 mm.

The rest is all about taste, which I don't care to argue: you either like wheels that stick out more than stock or you don't, but the math doesn't lie.

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Report this Post06-19-2012 05:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:


The trouble is that the '88 front wheel has a 37mm offset so increasing it to 40 only tucks it in 3 more millimeters... not enough needed to compensate for the 1" wider rim, so the overall effect is that it still sticks it out more by 9 mm.

The rest is all about taste, which I don't care to argue: you either like wheels that stick out more than stock or you don't, but the math doesn't lie.


You obviously like stock fitment.. I hate them. The wheels on most cars made are set too far inboard for my taste. Which I pointed out early on. Math in this case has jack-monkey squat to do with personal taste so whether it lies or not is moot. I like flush fitting wheels. The options I mentioned would be a good compromise. The only way Rodney is going to get anywhere on this is to have a poll.
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Report this Post06-19-2012 05:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BV MotorSports:
The options I mentioned would be a good compromise.


Perhaps... but Fiero38SC's option is an excellent, no-compromise-needed solution.

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Report this Post06-19-2012 07:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'd not even bother with 16" wheels, as rubber for 16" wheels are getting thin on size choices now..
the g body guys with gta wheels are finding this out..
and some one already makes the gt wheels in 17/18/19/20" but are crazy priced
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Report this Post06-19-2012 10:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:

I'd not even bother with 16" wheels, as rubber for 16" wheels are getting thin on size choices now..
the g body guys with gta wheels are finding this out..
and some one already makes the gt wheels in 17/18/19/20" but are crazy priced

I agree that 16" wheels are not very popular. If one changes wheel sizes the choices in 17" dia are far superior. You could put a 225 x 55 x 17 7 1/2" wheel on a Fiero and only move the wheel in .4". That's less than 1/2 inch and IIRC it fits with no issues. .

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Report this Post06-20-2012 12:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jelly2m8Click Here to Email jelly2m8Send a Private Message to jelly2m8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's not worth the effort or money to make a replicate of stock 15" wheels.

Very few people if any will spend $500.00 plus for a wheels only 1 inch bigger in diameter than what they have now or can buy for next to nothing.
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Report this Post06-20-2012 09:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm not looking to make custom aftermarket rims in 17" or larger. I'm looking to make a rim that looks OEM and is slightly larger. 16" is the only size I would consider.

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Report this Post06-20-2012 11:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:

I'm not looking to make custom aftermarket rims in 17" or larger. I'm looking to make a rim that looks OEM and is slightly larger. 16" is the only size I would consider.




thats fine.. IF.. tire makers agree with you.. they do not. they are disco'n 16" tire sizes at an alarming rate..
yes you'll be able to get them through places like cloker tire.. but then you have one or two sizes..
and whatever they want to charge for them..
I like your idea.. I do.. but your at the mercy of the tire companies..
the grand mark and gta's came in 16" the snowflake/mesh wheels don't look out of place at 17" like some rims that are repopped in the newer bigger sizes..
the gta's where a 2 piece wheel.. many wheel co. make the alum rim part (centerline in cali) you'd only need the center made and then any backspace could be made from the same two parts.. just depend on where they weld the two together. allowing a bigger pie of people that could use the rims.. as the backspace wouldn't be set in stone..
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Report this Post06-20-2012 11:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:

thats fine.. IF.. tire makers agree with you.. they do not. they are disco'n 16" tire sizes at an alarming rate..
.


Those with 15" tires will be even worse off.

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Report this Post06-20-2012 12:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for raccoonsSend a Private Message to raccoonsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
In looking for bigger wheels (for the sake of better tire choices and clearance for brakes), I found the Kyowa Mesh Zero, which is like the GT wheel, but 18" in diameter. The problem is that, in my opinion, the lace wheel design looks rather goofy at large diameters. For example, I've used MS Paint to enlarge the wheels on this car by 113% (the difference in diameter between 15" and 17" wheels):



A 16" wheel would be a good thing, in my opinion. Not large enough to look goofy, but a somewhat better choice of wheels, and the potential for using 12" rotors.

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Report this Post06-20-2012 12:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I actually think the market (people) who would be looking to purchase stock looking wheels are the same market that would only want stock size wheels. Wanting things to be correct. Some people at shows spent $150 per wheel to refinish the 15 inch factory ones.
Alot fo folks buy non stock wheels because of personal taste of the style of wheel. Also even if someone buys one that looks similar in style to the "lace pattern". I agree with others here, they get 17 inch or bigger due to lower profile performance tires.
You've probably done market research, but thats my laymans take on it.

I do agree though if you are going to do this no matter what...the making of one wheel and then milling more off for the fronts of an 88 is best.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 06-20-2012).]

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Report this Post06-20-2012 12:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
In my opinion (and it is my opinion) every time I go to a Fiero show I still think the best looking rim on a Fiero is the factory lace rim. So my intention is to supply a rim that is now 16" and looks very close to OEM and stock. I think 17" would be too large and the rubber tire would be too low profile. Now it looks aftermarket.

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Report this Post06-20-2012 01:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:

In my opinion (and it is my opinion) every time I go to a Fiero show I still think the best looking rim on a Fiero is the factory lace rim. So my intention is to supply a rim that is now 16" and looks very close to OEM and stock. I think 17" would be too large and the rubber tire would be too low profile. Now it looks aftermarket.



I do understand that. I just wonder if the people who are into stock appearance, are also into "all stock" would change wheel size?
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Report this Post06-20-2012 01:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:


Those with 15" tires will be even worse off.



hardly.. tomany older cars on the road... including the imports..
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Report this Post06-20-2012 02:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

I do understand that. I just wonder if the people who are into stock appearance, are also into "all stock" would change wheel size?


I would. I like the stock wheels but I'm not opposed to improving them in a subtle way. Its like upgrading to the late-model Pontiac CD player - it looks stock because its two-tone gray with orange illumination. Sure I could go buy a fancy aftermarket headunit - or set of wheels - but that's not what I'm interested in.
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Report this Post06-20-2012 03:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfred8Click Here to visit mrfred8's HomePageSend a Private Message to mrfred8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by css9450:


I would. I like the stock wheels but I'm not opposed to improving them in a subtle way. Its like upgrading to the late-model Pontiac CD player - it looks stock because its two-tone gray with orange illumination. Sure I could go buy a fancy aftermarket headunit - or set of wheels - but that's not what I'm interested in.


I agree, if stock looking 16's had been available when I was getting new tires, I would have considered upgrading.
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85SEnochie
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Report this Post06-20-2012 03:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85SEnochieClick Here to Email 85SEnochieSend a Private Message to 85SEnochieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
16x7 Riken Mesh Wheels make a good looking wheel
It would be nice to have that option I think



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2.5
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Report this Post06-20-2012 04:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Maybe they will sell well Rodney
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Report this Post06-20-2012 04:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lambo nutSend a Private Message to Lambo nutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

Maybe they will sell well Rodney


Yet keep in mind, you might get 89 people that say they will buy them, but when it comes time, only 3 will do so.

Kevin

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BV MotorSports
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Report this Post06-20-2012 05:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
16 or 17... 17 would be the better option IMO. It would be simple to make a poll on your website Rodney and see what the owners want.
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Rodney
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Report this Post06-20-2012 05:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Only picture I have for now.

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All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
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Report this Post06-20-2012 05:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's a pretty wheel. Looks just like the ones on the prototype.

Having said that...
If you can't sell two different wheels/offsets, I would be inclined to just optimize them for the earlier cars.
If you make one wheel that looks decent on the front of an 88, I think it's going to look "sucked in" on the rears, and on the earlier cars.

Sorry. Just my 2 cents.
I'm not in the market anyway, since I run 17s.
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Report this Post06-20-2012 05:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
One thing to point out.. how many of us still run stock non-vented rotors on the 84-87 cars? Keeping the early offset seems a waste. The rim in the pic does look good though.
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Report this Post06-20-2012 08:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BrewCheeseClick Here to Email BrewCheeseSend a Private Message to BrewCheeseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would love to see a larger OEM style rims. I would want them to have a bigger polished lip like the GTA 16" rims have. I think what would make it or break it would be cost, got any ballpark?

Jason
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Report this Post06-20-2012 11:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Silicoan86Click Here to Email Silicoan86Send a Private Message to Silicoan86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 85SEnochie:
16x7 Riken Mesh Wheels make a good looking wheel
It would be nice to have that option I think


I did not know those existed... from googling it I don't think they are made any more, but if they were made in our bolt pattern/offset they would be awesome. I guess I will keep them in mind when searching for used wheels.
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