Thanks to the misguided notion that everyone needs a college degree, we have degree inflation and plenty of debt for everyone.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013...panies.html?hp&_r=1&

quote ATLANTA —The college degree is becoming the new high school diploma: the new minimum requirement, albeit an expensive one, for getting even the lowest-level job. Consider the 45-person law firm of Busch, Slipakoff & Schuh here in Atlanta, a place that has seen tremendous growth in the college-educated population. Like other employers across the country, the firm hires only people with a bachelor’s degree, even for jobs that do not require college-level skills. This prerequisite applies to everyone, including the receptionist, paralegals, administrative assistants and file clerks. Even the office “runner” — the in-house courier who, for $10 an hour, ferries documents back and forth between the courthouse and the office — went to a four-year school. “College graduates are just more career-oriented,” said Adam Slipakoff, the firm’s managing partner. “Going to college means they are making a real commitment to their futures. They’re not just looking for a paycheck.” Economists have referred to this phenomenon as “degree inflation,” and it has been steadily infiltrating America’s job market. Across industries and geographic areas, many other jobs that didn’t used to require a diploma — positions like dental hygienists, cargo agents, clerks and claims adjusters — are increasingly requiring one, according to Burning Glass, a company that analyzes job ads from more than 20,000 online sources, including major job boards and small- to midsize-employer sites. This up-credentialing is pushing the less educated even further down the food chain, and it helps explain why the unemployment rate for workers with no more than a high school diploma is more than twice that for workers with a bachelor’s degree: 8.1 percent versus 3.7 percent. ... Of all the metropolitan areas in the United States, Atlanta has had one of the largest inflows of college graduates in the last five years, according to an analysis of census data by William Frey, a demographer at the Brookings Institution. In 2012, 39 percent of job postings for secretaries and administrative assistants in the Atlanta metro area requested a bachelor’s degree, up from 28 percent in 2007, according to Burning Glass. “When I started recruiting in ’06, you didn’t need a college degree, but there weren’t that many candidates,” Ms. Manzagol said. Even if they are not exactly applying the knowledge they gained in their political science, finance and fashion marketing classes, the young graduates employed by Busch, Slipakoff & Schuh say they are grateful for even the rotest of rote office work they have been given. “It sure beats washing cars,” said Landon Crider, 24, the firm’s soft-spoken runner. He would know: he spent several years, while at Georgia State and in the months after graduation, scrubbing sedans at Enterprise Rent-a-Car. Before joining the law firm, he was turned down for a promotion to rental agent at Enterprise — a position that also required a bachelor’s degree — because the company said he didn’t have enough sales experience. His college-educated colleagues had similarly limited opportunities, working at Ruby Tuesday or behind a retail counter while waiting for a better job to open up. “I am over $100,000 in student loan debt right now,” said Megan Parker, who earns $37,000 as the firm’s receptionist. She graduated from the Art Institute of Atlanta in 2011 with a degree in fashion and retail management, and spent months waiting on “bridezillas” at a couture boutique, among other stores, while churning out office-job applications. “I will probably never see the end of that bill, but I’m not really thinking about it right now,” she said. “You know, this is a really great place to work.”

More at the link.

Not everyone needs a degree, BUT, there are many factors of why someone who has a college degree doesn't get the job/pay they expect....

Yup, I've been thru the doors of a LOT of places like that the past 7-8 years....and the REALLY scary part is while these people have degrees, most of them need instructions and help to empty a bucket or tie their own shoes. DONT even mention letting them cross the street on their own.

What I have seen is while the number of degrees/ College diplomas is WAY up, the quality of the education and the individual is WAY down, and many of the degrees aren't even in a field related to the job (and it shows). Ever watch a liberal arts major/ political science minor (with a Masters) trying to play around with electricity and machinery ? ....it can be amusing

What I recommend to folks:

Online degree + intern program or get even a low paying job at a company you like which pays for at least *some* of your school costs.(either your salary and/or they pay a percentage of yer school costs if you maintain a certain GPA)


Or a Local school (no boarding $$$)
------------------------

College costs arefreakin' INSANE.

College degree for $10/hr? I've seen it. I didn't get a job once because I didn't have a 4 year degree. I was able to display skills and knowledge beyond the requirements of the position, but when they asked for my bachelor's degree or my expected completion date I told that A) I didn't have one and B) I had no intention of getting one they showed me the door. Oh, and the job paid $9.50/hr. That was 6 months ago.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Thanks to the misguided notion that everyone needs a college degree, we have degree inflation and plenty of debt for everyone. http://www.nytimes.com/2013...panies.html?hp&_r=1& More at the link.

quote “I am over $100,000 in student loan debt right now,” said Megan Parker, who earns $37,000 as the firm’s receptionist. She graduated from the Art Institute of Atlanta in 2011 with a degree in fashion and retail management, and spent months waiting on “bridezillas” at a couture boutique, among other stores, while churning out office-job applications.

She got a degree in fashion and retail management. She spent $100,000 on that education.

Someone is at fault here and it isn't any employers. Hint: it's her.

Not all jobless graduates can be explained so quickly, but most can. Meaningless degrees get meaningless, low-paying jobs.

I'm just hoping that my 4 years of mechanical engineering get me somewhere, at least I know I'm better off than people with a psychology/ business degree or the like

Thanks for paying for my education Uncle Sam, no debt FTW!

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: I'm just hoping that my 4 years of mechanical engineering get me somewhere, at least I know I'm better off than people with a psychology/ business degree or the like Thanks for paying for my education Uncle Sam, no debt FTW!

Whats wrong with a degree in psychology? With the number of "misguided" individuals in this world it may come in more handy than you think. I used my BS in Psychology for several years before deciding I no longer wanted to work in the social services field. Went back to school and got an AAS in Culinary Arts. Guess what, I sell parts for a living and love it. Should have joined the military as planned and saved a boat load of money. College is over rated. my .02

dan

I love hearing stories about college. I agree with most people who say, "not every job requires a degree."

We live in the 21st century where CHANGE and ENTREPRENEURSHIP drive the nation and economy forward. (just as it always has)

Where would we be without the likes of:
- Henry Ford
- Thomas Edison
- Bill Gates
- Steve Jobs
- Mark Zuckerberg

Should we go back in time and tell these people that their inventions and societal contributions, who are used by BILLIONS OF PEOPLE, do not count because they do not have a college degree?
Should we make them get a degree to feed the status quo?

Just food for thought......

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Fitness Expert
Founder - www.fitnesspatterns.com
Developing the affordable alternative to personal training.

[This message has been edited by xquaid (edited 02-20-2013).]

quote Originally posted by bonaduce: Whats wrong with a degree in psychology? With the number of "misguided" individuals in this world it may come in more handy than you think. I used my BS in Psychology for several years before deciding I no longer wanted to work in the social services field. Went back to school and got an AAS in Culinary Arts. Guess what, I sell parts for a living and love it. Should have joined the military as planned and saved a boat load of money. College is over rated. my .02 dan

Psychology is a bloated field right now. Anyone going that path has to get a doctorate nowadays, and only then may not actually be able to be more than a school psychologist making $30-40k a year.

People going that route today either know someone, are incredibly intelligent, or are incredibly dumb.

Same with business. I know a VERY successful Business major right now--hasn't even graduated yet and is making great money with Anheuser-Busch. But for every one of my friend, there are 40 others that have no charisma that are hoping to go get some desk-job with no clear job description. Again, they either know someone, are brilliant, or are really dumb.

If young adults want to go to college, they need to make it worth their time. Don't go get a fashion degree and then complain that you couldn't find a job in your industry. Gee--ya think??

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Psychology is a bloated field right now. Anyone going that path has to get a doctorate nowadays, and only then may not actually be able to be more than a school psychologist making $30-40k a year. People going that route today either know someone, are incredibly intelligent, or are incredibly dumb. Same with business. I know a VERY successful Business major right now--hasn't even graduated yet and is making great money with Anheuser-Busch. But for every one of my friend, there are 40 others that have no charisma that are hoping to go get some desk-job with no clear job description. Again, they either know someone, are brilliant, or are really dumb. If young adults want to go to college, they need to make it worth their time. Don't go get a fashion degree and then complain that you couldn't find a job in your industry. Gee--ya think??

This. Most psych majors will either be serving my food in a few years or going back to college for another degree. It sounds harsh but there are too many people mine and bdubs age that go for degrees that are "fun and interesting " in a field that has a massive pool of job candidates or one that is completely useless.

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: Yup, I've been thru the doors of a LOT of places like that the past 7-8 years....and the REALLY scary part is while these people have degrees, most of them need instructions and help to empty a bucket or tie their own shoes. DONT even mention letting them cross the street on their own. What I have seen is while the number of degrees/ College diplomas is WAY up, the quality of the education and the individual is WAY down, and many of the degrees aren't even in a field related to the job (and it shows). Ever watch a liberal arts major/ political science minor (with a Masters) trying to play around with electricity and machinery ? ....it can be amusing

I got to agree with you on that one and have always said for every year someone spends in college they lose a year of common sense. I know a lot here hate to here that, my wife included, but from those I saw at digital equipment and other places they can’t even change a tire by themselves. Even most of the engineers I have worked with don’t have enough brains to blow their own nose, never mind in their field of study.

Now go at me BDub.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

They did this on the news a few weeks ago and showed something like 87% of college grads have minimum pay jobs. My dad had 3 degrees and worked at an aircraft assembly line. They laid him off a year or so before he was eligible for retirement so they didnt give him a thing. Then he went into business for himself that required no degree at all and mad lots more money till he passed away.

The only reason I got any degree at all was you had to have one to fly the planes in the AF. My business degree didnt have anything to do with flying or running my body shop. I dont even know where the certificate is...prob thrown out years ago. It was as useful as toilet paper in anything ive done.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 02-20-2013).]

I call BS. Where are all these $10/hr jobs? They're all $8/hr or worse around here.

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: I'm just hoping that my 4 years of mechanical engineering get me somewhere, at least I know I'm better off than people with a psychology/ business degree or the like

Get used to hearing the word 'overqualified' Or more accurately, reading it in rejection emails, for the 2 out of 100 that actually bother responding.

"It's not WHAT you know, it's WHO you know."

Agreed with you and Roger, I actually feel like my intelligence has dropped through college apart from specific engineering related knowledge I've acquired. College is a scam for the most part, taking a f***ing useless art class right now to be able to graduate.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: ...for every year someone spends in college they lose a year of common sense. Now go at me BDub. Steve

It's a funny line that you like to say, but it does not carry any truth. That's all that really needs to be said about it.

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: Agreed with you and Roger, I actually feel like my intelligence has dropped through college apart from specific engineering related knowledge I've acquired. College is a scam for the most part, taking a f***ing useless art class right now to be able to graduate.

Hi, this is nitroheadz28, may I take your order?

Would you like fries with that sir?

Anything to drink?

Will that complete your order?

Please pull ahead.

I am in tears laughing at my own wit.

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: I call BS. Where are all these $10/hr jobs? They're all $8/hr or worse around here.

That is why I left memphis. it was hard to find someone willing to pay minimum wage, all i could find was LESS than minimum wage, and forget about full time or benefits available. it is getting rough out there in the world....

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: Agreed with you and Roger, I actually feel like my intelligence has dropped through college apart from specific engineering related knowledge I've acquired. College is a scam for the most part, taking a f***ing useless art class right now to be able to graduate.

Which is EXACTLY why, for the past 15 years, I take courses and not a degree/ diploma....if I want to learn to basket-weave, I will take a basket-weaving course, DONT try to bundle it with a PT-6 repair course....

I picked up the attitude in the 90's at flight school. 1st place was a private academy, and when they wanted us to start writing book reports on Shakespere (and wouldnt accept critisism) I found a new place QUICK. I STILL dont understand what liking a 500-year-dead author has to do with being able to throw yourself at the ground at several hundred miles an hour and miss !!

And this is why my son is going to a technical college to learn a trade next year. He is not college material and I refuse to allow him to struggle with a four year degree program, acquire $100,000+ worth of debt so that he can get a minimum wage job, and struggle to pay for it a good portion of his life. I will also not help pay for this. He is graduating from a private college prep school in May.

He will work towards an AA degree in Engineering Design and Drafting learning primarily Pro E and SolidWorks CAD programing and 3D modeling/printing. This is an extension of what he is already learning in his high school Engineering classes along with robotics. He has a strong interest in and is good at it. Average debt for this degree after two years is a manageable $15,000 with an average starting salary of $45-55K, and the college has 100% job placement over the last eight years. The school has been in existence for over 100 years and has an excellent reputation. We also know people in the industry to call in favors in if necessary.

Unfortunately, kids are being miss-advised about going to college rather than trade schools. I am sorry, but college isn’t for everybody. Of course, with the federal government giving them the money they shouldn’t only makes things worse. Blame a lot of this on the education lobby.

On the other hand, my daughter graduated from college in 2009 with separate degrees in Psychology and Marketing. An overachiever and hard worker, she got half her education for free and had minimal loan debt. She has a wonderful, high paying marketing job in downtown Chicago. She is an exception. She has college friends that are struggling under massive loan debt pouring coffee at Caribou and stocking at Target for minimum wage.

I will climb down off my soap box now but I could go on and on about our lovely education system.

Jeff

So, I am pursuing a 4-year degree in Industrial Design. Am I wasting my time?

(No, I don't really care what you say, I am doing it anyway)

quote Originally posted by BlackEmrald: So, I am pursuing a 4-year degree in Industrial Design. Am I wasting my time? (No, I don't really care what you say, I am doing it anyway)

Black,

Good for you. Only you can answer that. It does seem to be a high demand field and manufacturing in the US seems to be increasing demand.

My son could go on another two years for his bachelors degree, but let him get a job first and let his employer pay him to finish.

quote Originally posted by BlackEmrald: So, I am pursuing a 4-year degree in Industrial Design. Am I wasting my time? (No, I don't really care what you say, I am doing it anyway)

probably

quote Originally posted by 1985FieroGT: probably

That is just being a dick. Uncalled for.

I still love to give my brother a hard time about this. He actually stated to me once while he was in college that it wasn't to learn a "skill or trade" but to be enriched and gain a diverse cultural experience..
That mindset died about 3 yrs out of college.. He spent 2 yrs being "diverse" and working for the Boys and Girls club and getting his car keyed once a week.
He now works for the SSA.. Grinding things out in gov't service.
I think the only thing that kept him "sane" was his 6 yrs in the Marine Reserve.

I'm a HS drop out who didnt get my Diploma until my 4th year in the Corps, got out did a few different jobs until I found something I liked.
I don't make great money, but I'm happy, just spent two weeks in Stockholm for biz, average 2 domestic trips a year and 1.5 international.. Ya still no college degree..

Also have friends who have happy comfortable lives as tradesmen (Plumbers, welders, truck drivers etc)
The key is still what it was 100yrs ago. Find what you like to do, you'll be happier.

Thanks for the back up Tony!

Yes from my research it seems to be a growing, well paid field. I am interested in automotive design as well as toy design, appliance design, shoe design ect.

I got a half tuition scholarship to go to a private university in Cleveland with the possibility of more down the road.

I have already graduated from a technical school and have lots of certifications in the auto collision repair field, and it will always be my back up.

Its just such a shame going to college will only ever get me a 8 to 10 dollar an hour job! Poor me.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: It's a funny line that you like to say, but it does not carry any truth. That's all that really needs to be said about it.

Really I beg to differ, I have worked with computer design engineers who couldn’t change their wiper blades on their cars or tires or from what I saw of them they couldn’t even button the buttons on their shirts.

Worked with quite a few mechanical engineers who didn’t know their ass from their elbows, as well as how to build a set of staircases to code at a grade school. Some that couldn’t admit that what they designed didn’t work in the real world.

Want more I have dozens of examples of incompetence, stupidity, arrogance and NO COMMON SENSE.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Want more I have dozens of examples of incompetence, stupidity, arrogance and NO COMMON SENSE.

Don't need another example. Clearly, you've demonstrated that morons are prevalent in every field.

So, what the hell does that have to do with career choice?

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Really I beg to differ, I have worked with computer design engineers who couldn’t change their wiper blades on their cars or tires or from what I saw of them they couldn’t even button the buttons on their shirts. Worked with quite a few mechanical engineers who didn’t know their ass from their elbows, as well as how to build a set of staircases to code at a grade school. Some that couldn’t admit that what they designed didn’t work in the real world. Want more I have dozens of examples of incompetence, stupidity, arrogance and NO COMMON SENSE. Steve

Funny... I've met more than a dozen welders that fit that description exactly..

quote Originally posted by skuzzbomer: Don't need another example. Clearly, you've demonstrated that morons are prevalent in every field. So, what the hell does that have to do with career choice?

Nothing just answering his post.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: That is just being a dick. Uncalled for.

It was said in jest

quote Originally posted by BlackEmrald: Funny... I've met more than a dozen welders that fit that description exactly..

And I bet every one of them just came out of some welding school and think they know it all. I never said I know it all but I didn’t just get out of some school, but I did spend 20 years behind the mask and worked my way up, learned to weld with every kind of welder out there, that a human welds with. Well except underwater welding, I have never done that and wanted to but never had the time to learn and am more than willing to admit it. See that is common sense admitting your limitations, kids in college never admit that they are dumb because they went to school and they know it all.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 1985FieroGT: It was said in jest

Then I recant.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: And I bet every one of them just came out of some welding school and think they know it all. I never said I know it all but I didn’t just get out of some school, but I did spend 20 years behind the mask and worked my way up, learned to weld with every kind of welder out there, that a human welds with. Well except underwater welding, I have never done that and wanted to but never had the time to learn and am more than willing to admit it. See that is common sense admitting your limitations, kids in college never admit that they are dumb because they went to school and they know it all. Steve

So what you are saying that that not all welders are the same? Are you saying that you are an exception to my experience with welders and that I shouldn't judge someone based solely on their trade? Are you saying that most welders are highly skilled tradesmen like yourself with lots of experience that can do a great job the first time?

I agree.

Now change the word "welders" to "engineers".

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: And I bet every one of them just came out of some welding school and think they know it all. I never said I know it all but I didn’t just get out of some school, but I did spend 20 years behind the mask and worked my way up, learned to weld with every kind of welder out there, that a human welds with. Well except underwater welding, I have never done that and wanted to but never had the time to learn and am more than willing to admit it. See that is common sense admitting your limitations, kids in college never admit that they are dumb because they went to school and they know it all. Steve

Well Steve, you're just the greatest. I'm glad you have all that common sense 'cause us educated folk wouldn't know what to do without ya! Just glad you're here to save us.

This is my experience FWIW...

I go to a technology "driven" college, when in high school I was challenged and motivated by many of my teachers. When I started college, I automatically saw that almost ALL of the professors in my department were a joke. By this I mean that I have 60-85 year old professors teaching programs like CAD/CAM/Inventor and classes like electronics packaging and tool design. These professors can barely turn a computer on, when asked a question about the program being used the answer is- ask the smart kid in the class.. The other classes that involve design such as the aforementioned ones are a joke, they spend 2 hours reading random crap and 2 hours of "lab" doing busy work designing whatever they give us (no challenge whatsoever, just busy work..).

I know that this is a specific case, but my higher education has been a joke so far. I once asked one of the newer professors- "We barely learn anything here, what the hell are we supposed to do when we get a job so we don't look like idiots?". His response was that we learn pretty much everything on the job and whatever we "learn" here is just to make sure we aren't complete dumb@$$es..

So yeah..

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: taking a f***ing useless art class right now to be able to graduate.

Hey! Useless to YOU maybe, but I felt the same way about Math classes when i was in.. why do i need higher math again, beyond meeting gen ed requirements for a degree?

You could have always taken a different class.. and you know, just because you are taking it and dont think you need it does not mean you cannot get something out of it.

Regarding college as a requirement for getting a job..

College art calsses were great for developing my "chops", but ultimately i am employed and a business owner right now because of a trade apprenticeship, not the college classes i took.

My advice to most youngsters is to learn a trade, save some money, and increase your immediate earning potential at the end of your training. College gives you nothing in the end but a piece of paper, you decide whether or not what you supposedly learned is going to help you in your career.

My brother makes very good money as an electrician... I make good money as a tattoo artist... my sister has two college degrees and she's STILL taking classes, what her end-game plan is, i do not know.. but it has not done much to get her a good job. Good thing her husband learned a trade.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 02-21-2013).]

Tbone, sorry maybe my frustration with my particular school is coming on as a little strong. I couldn't choose anything else due to scheduling constraints, the choices were either line drawing/ watercolor/ photography. Only the first fit my schedule, I would've gladly taken photography.

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: Tbone, sorry maybe my frustration with my particular school is coming on as a little strong. I couldn't choose anything else due to scheduling constraints, the choices were either line drawing/ watercolor/ photography. Only the first fit my schedule, I would've gladly taken photography.

Revel in it, thumb your nose at the snooty artsy types, enjoy your "C" grade to the fullest!

Photography is one of the few art classes I never took... that and jewelry making.