Untill we stop pointing guns at each others heads, there never has been any hope. Save the money, save the planet, but what are we really saving for our children?
I'm always amazed by the thoughts that the "green" stuff being just a money making scheme. What isn't done to make money? Switching to greener technologies has the added benefit of less pollution and harm to the environment, if someone makes money off of that who cares? If those that make money off of it are local even better IMO. You don't think oil companies are in business to make money? Don't think they overcharge for their products and are getting super rich? Don't think they have more influence on politics and policy? Don't think they will delay any significant change away from petroleum? Ha! Not saying they are any better or worse than any other companies, just that it is they that have the power and love to make people believe it's the "greenies" that are the bad guys. Smart business.
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 11-07-2010).]
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12:25 AM
spark1 Member
Posts: 11159 From: Benton County, OR Registered: Dec 2002
--clip-- I'm sure this will get me pegged as some tree hugger.. but you know what? Trees are important, too. Or at least they used to be. --clip--
quote
I think that I shall never see A poem lovely as a tree. A tree whose hungry mouth is prest Against the earth's sweet flowing breast; A tree that looks at God all day, And lifts her leafy arms to pray; A tree that may in Summer wear A nest of robins in her hair; Upon whose bosom snow has lain; Who intimately lives with rain. Poems are made by fools like me, But only God can make a tree.
The planet will be fine, we might poison ourselves in the meantime. Me, I start and distribute plants. Plants are their bugs do a great job cleaning the environment. I mix the shredded paper with my plant dirt, works fine. Dig small holes in the yard for fido waste, works fine.
Your position on a "green" life doesn't bother me... but hearing that you don't have anyone else to live for but yourself does. That's concerning.
Do you have nieces? Nephews? Friends with kids?
I could not care less if you drove a 6 mpg car or a 60 mpg bike, but besides living a green life, don't you have anything else to live for?
It just sounds like you are at a spot right now where you don't realize how much of an impact your life actually makes on this earth. Not to sounds sappy and childish, but you make a difference. Like I said, I don't care if you trash the planet or not... but don't let that "not caring" attitude reflect in the rest of your life. Keep your friends and family close, and don't lose sight of that. The world is not important, it'll take care of itself. Your relationships with your loved ones are important.
I'm always amazed by the thoughts that the "green" stuff being just a money making scheme. First of all what isn't done to make money? Second switching to greener technologies has the added benefit of less pollution and harm to the environment, if someone makes money off of that who cares? If those that make money off of it are local even better IMO. You don't think oil companies are in business to make money? Don't think they overcharge for their products and are getting super rich? Don't think they have more influence on politics and policy? Don't think they will delay any significant change away from petroleum? Ha! Not saying they are any better or worse than any other companies, just that it is they that have the power and love to make people believe it's the "greenies" that are the bad guys. Smart business.
I never said there was anything wrong with making money off of the suckers that think they are actually saving the planet. Heck, I'm all for it.
It's the places that use emotions to make money that bug me. It's not a terrible thing, until you start scaring people into giving you money, that's when I have an issue.
I think oil is alternative energy, it's green as well. Renewable, and the ultimate form of recycling.
On the other side of the coin I know people that are "saving the planet" by purchasing a new car that uses less fuel. That's awesome. Until a sane person starts doing common sense math. That car costs 30+ thousand dollars, and gets a whopping 40 MPG. In a few years the batteries that supplement the fuel economy need replaced for another few thousand dollars, also creating more waste. In the meantime I can go on craigslist, purchase a Geo Metro, or Ford Fiesta for a few (3-8k) thousand dollars, get around the same mileage, and not waste resources, recycle etc. . Most people are just what I call "iPod Hippies" though, and want to save the world in the coolest way possible, and don't care if they are really not saving anything, as long as they look cool.
I'm always amazed by the thoughts that the "green" stuff being just a money making scheme. What isn't done to make money? Switching to greener technologies has the added benefit of less pollution and harm to the environment, if someone makes money off of that who cares? If those that make money off of it are local even better IMO. You don't think oil companies are in business to make money? Don't think they overcharge for their products and are getting super rich? Don't think they have more influence on politics and policy? Don't think they will delay any significant change away from petroleum? Ha! Not saying they are any better or worse than any other companies, just that it is they that have the power and love to make people believe it's the "greenies" that are the bad guys. Smart business.
I wonder how many people realize how much mercury is in florescent light bulbs and how much more they cost. Sure you might make it up with savings but is your health worth it?
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06:09 AM
86GT3.4DOHC Member
Posts: 10007 From: Marion Ohio Registered: Apr 2004
Originally posted by tbone42: you cannot eat or drink money when there is no water or food left, and debt means nothing when you are breathing your last.
Not true, as we all know, bacon will be the future currency!
Save the whales, save the snails, save the tree, save the flees
Steve
Always loved that line...
I wasn't trying to say that "green" companies are trying to make money, differently then other energy companies but sometimes, their product isn't really so green...
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10:43 AM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
I wonder how many people realize how much mercury is in florescent light bulbs and how much more they cost. Sure you might make it up with savings but is your health worth it?
* A single CFL contains 5 milligrams (abbreviated as mg) of mercury. See link (4) * When a CFL is shattered only 17% to 40% of the mercury is actually released into the air. The rest remains attached to the CFL glass fragments. See link (2). * So of the total 5mg of mercury in a CFL only 0.85mg (17% of 5mg) to 2mg (40% of 5mg) make it into the air. * In addition, only 1/3rd of that 17% to 40%, makes it into the air in the first 8 hours from the time the CFL shatters. See link (2). * So only 0.28mg (1/3rd of 0.85mg) to 0.67mg (1/3rd of 2mg) of mercury will make it into the air if the shattered CFL is not disposed in 8 hours. * 1 milligram equals 1000 micrograms (abbreviated as ug). * 0.67mg = 670ug
Bottom line, if you absolutely shatter a CFL, and leave it there for 8 hours, it will release at most 670ug of mercury into the air.
Now on tuna... here is what eating tuna means in terms of mercury: * The average mercury content in tuna is about 0.31 micrograms (abbreviated as ug) per gram (abbreviated as g) of tuna. See link (3) and (5). * A 6 oz can of tuna is 170g * This means there are 52.70 ug (170 * 0.31 ug) of mercury in a 6 oz can of tuna. * 13 cans of tuna would introduce about 685 ug of mercury into your body.
The above are all factual numbers, no conclusions or assumptions. 13 cans of 6oz tuna contain the same amount of mercury as you would release from a shattered CFL in 8 hours.
Well guys, I have officially given up. ... So throw down that garbage, drive that gas guzzler, and don't forget to burn some plastic and let some refridgerant into the ozone. Screw it, lets trash this place.
Of course, if the world gets its head out of its rear end and presents a plan, I may even cooperate and help out. Don't see that happening.
Ok, so you've given up and not only decided to not spend the time and effort to save the planet, but you now want to spend extra effort to destroy it, and make a post about it to tell everyone. So, are you hoping to get talked out of it? Trying to shock people?
It's kind of like people who post that they're leaving the forum, etc. Whatever. Just do what you're going to do, man.
Oh, something to consider next time you're paying school taxes. Who do you think is going to be running the country in the future when you're old and gray? You could directly benefit if they aren't morons.
I wonder how many people realize how much mercury is in florescent light bulbs and how much more they cost. Sure you might make it up with savings but is your health worth it?
Do you? Look into it.
Edit: Whoops look like ryan.hess posted some good info already.
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 11-07-2010).]
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10:56 AM
spark1 Member
Posts: 11159 From: Benton County, OR Registered: Dec 2002
* A single CFL contains 5 milligrams (abbreviated as mg) of mercury. See link (4) * When a CFL is shattered only 17% to 40% of the mercury is actually released into the air. The rest remains attached to the CFL glass fragments. See link (2). * So of the total 5mg of mercury in a CFL only 0.85mg (17% of 5mg) to 2mg (40% of 5mg) make it into the air. * In addition, only 1/3rd of that 17% to 40%, makes it into the air in the first 8 hours from the time the CFL shatters. See link (2). * So only 0.28mg (1/3rd of 0.85mg) to 0.67mg (1/3rd of 2mg) of mercury will make it into the air if the shattered CFL is not disposed in 8 hours. * 1 milligram equals 1000 micrograms (abbreviated as ug). * 0.67mg = 670ug
Bottom line, if you absolutely shatter a CFL, and leave it there for 8 hours, it will release at most 670ug of mercury into the air.
Now on tuna... here is what eating tuna means in terms of mercury: * The average mercury content in tuna is about 0.31 micrograms (abbreviated as ug) per gram (abbreviated as g) of tuna. See link (3) and (5). * A 6 oz can of tuna is 170g * This means there are 52.70 ug (170 * 0.31 ug) of mercury in a 6 oz can of tuna. * 13 cans of tuna would introduce about 685 ug of mercury into your body.
The above are all factual numbers, no conclusions or assumptions. 13 cans of 6oz tuna contain the same amount of mercury as you would release from a shattered CFL in 8 hours.
Good information, but the mercury in the tuna isn't "released into the air" so why do you only consider the mercury from a broken CFL that's released into the air? The amount that is attached to glass fragments also needs to be dealt with. Ever broken a light bulb? Ever see how much that glass can fragment? Ever cut yourself cleaning up a broken lightbulb?
* Have people and pets leave the room, and don't let anyone walk through the breakage area on their way out. * Open a window and leave the room for 15 minutes or more. * Shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system, if you have one.
Cleanup Steps for Hard Surfaces
* Carefully scoop up glass pieces and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag. * Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder. * Wipe the area clean with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes. Place towels in the glass jar or plastic bag. * Do not use a vacuum or broom to clean up the broken bulb on hard surfaces.
Cleanup Steps for Carpeting or Rug
* Carefully pick up glass fragments and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag. * Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder. * If vacuuming is needed after all visible materials are removed, vacuum the area where the bulb was broken. * Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister), and put the bag or vacuum debris in a sealed plastic bag.
Cleanup Steps for Clothing, Bedding and Other Soft Materials
* If clothing or bedding materials come in direct contact with broken glass or mercury-containing powder from inside the bulb that may stick to the fabric, the clothing or bedding should be thrown away. Do not wash such clothing or bedding because mercury fragments in the clothing may contaminate the machine and/or pollute sewage. * You can, however, wash clothing or other materials that have been exposed to the mercury vapor from a broken CFL, such as the clothing you are wearing when you cleaned up the broken CFL, as long as that clothing has not come into direct con tact with the materials from the broken bulb. * If shoes come into direct contact with broken glass or mercury-containing powder from the bulb, wipe them off with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes. Place the towels or wipes in a glass jar or plastic bag for disposal.
Disposal of Cleanup Materials
* Immediately place all clean-up materials outdoors in a trash container or protected area for the next normal trash pickup. * Wash your hands after disposing of the jars or plastic bags containing clean-up materials. * Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements in your specific area. Some states do not allow such trash disposal. Instead, they require that broken and unbroken mercury-containing bulbs be taken to a local recycling center.
Future Cleaning of Carpeting or Rug: Air Out the Room During and After Vacuuming
* The next several times you vacuum, shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system and open a window before vacuuming. * Keep the central heating/air conditioning system shut off and the window open for at least 15 minutes after vacuuming is completed.
The 670µg of Hg vapor aren't your only concern. (fyi, micrograms is abbreviated "µg" not "ug") I noticed you quote the EPA to support your argument illustrating how small the Hg exposure is from a broken CFL compared to eating tuna, but you don't quote their own recommendations specifically for a broken CFL. Interesting.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 11-07-2010).]
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11:20 AM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
New GREEN light bulbs are full of mercury. Your not even supposed to throw them in the trash, but dispose of them at an authorized place. Screw that, I throw my bulbs, batteries, even plastic car parts and batteries in my dumpster. Thats why I rent it. Let them worry about it. And Ya, even throw my used motor oil out back in the woods.
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11:40 AM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by Formula88: Good information, but the mercury in the tuna isn't "released into the air" so why do you only consider the mercury from a broken CFL that's released into the air? The amount that is attached to glass fragments also needs to be dealt with. Ever broken a light bulb? Ever see how much that glass can fragment? Ever cut yourself cleaning up a broken lightbulb?
Well, if you want to eat the broken glass, that's your prerogative. But even a cut won't do much harm. If you're jumping barefoot on the broken glass, and get a few grams of glass embedded, you might have to worry.
YMMV.
For the record, I still treat broken CFL's like hazardous waste. Open windows, gloves on, etc.
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11:48 AM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
a. If a broken cfl results in such a small amt of mercury release, and is realtively harmless compared to THIRTEEN cans of tuna--why do you treat it like hazmat?
b. How many broken CFL bilbs will there be in the US each year after incandescent bulbs are "extinct"?
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12:36 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Well, if you want to eat the broken glass, that's your prerogative. But even a cut won't do much harm. If you're jumping barefoot on the broken glass, and get a few grams of glass embedded, you might have to worry.
YMMV.
For the record, I still treat broken CFL's like hazardous waste. Open windows, gloves on, etc.
So for the sake of proving your argument on the internet you effectively tell me to ignore the EPA recommendations and say it's not a risk unless you EAT the glass, and in the next breath say when it's your OWN health, you treat it like hazardous waste.
Uh huh.
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12:39 PM
williegoat Member
Posts: 19534 From: Glendale, AZ Registered: Mar 2009
fact: the world is more polluted now than it was 500 years ago fact: people live longer and healthier lives than they did 500 years ago conclusion: pollution is good!
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12:41 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
a. If a broken cfl results in such a small amt of mercury release, and is realtively harmless compared to THIRTEEN cans of tuna--why do you treat it like hazmat?
b. How many broken CFL bilbs will there be in the US each year after incandescent bulbs are "extinct"?
a) Same reason I don't eat shark, tuna, etc. I like to limit my exposure to toxins.
b) From what I've read, the amount of mercury released by broken CFL's will be less than that emitted by coal plants to power their incandescent cousins. No source, I'm lazy and have things to do.
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12:45 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
