Quote of the day from the newly elect Republican leader of the House, Rep. John Boehner on cutting government spending.

"We'll make a lot of decisions over the coming months."

That's some real leadership there. Campaigning is one thing, governing is another. Good Luck with that.

(R) Meg Whitman and (R) Carly Fiorina lose to Jerry Brown and Barbara Boxer in California. It's gotta be depressing all that wasted effort for you guys. You should move to a Red State! Oh wait, you don't have the financial means to leave... maybe if you had saved away all those Bush tax cuts you could!

quote Originally posted by tbone42: So everything that happens from now on that fits your political philosophy will be the actions of the republicans in the house, and everything you do not like will be because of those evil democrats in the senate. .

Uh, YEAH!

SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!!!

It's all Chinatown, baby....

quote Originally posted by Tigger: Quote of the day from the newly elect Republican leader of the House, Rep. John Boehner on cutting government spending. "We'll make a lot of decisions over the coming months." That's some real leadership there. Campaigning is one thing, governing is another. Good Luck with that. (R) Meg Whitman and (R) Carly Fiorina lose to Jerry Brown and Barbara Boxer in California. It's gotta be depressing all that wasted effort for you guys. You should move to a Red State! Oh wait, you don't have the financial means to leave... maybe if you had saved away all those Bush tax cuts you could!

At least he gets it.
You and the pres don't get it. The people have spoken.
No hope for the debt ridden CA now.
CA has so many that have for too long sucked dried up tits of government they now have lockjaw and can't let go.
Too bad for the state that once was the leader in the nation.

quote Originally posted by tbone42: I believe it is now time for both sides to come together and help our country. So yeah, I AM SERIOUS.

Serious question, tbone: How? How do you see them helping the country? What do you expect both sides to accomplish? (In other words, would you add more to spending, would you cut it? Would you scale back or annul our shotgun marriage to Obamacare? etc.)

I would think if the republican congress just blindly say NO to everything they will be giving Obama a free ride in 2012.

They have a chance to show that the system isn't broken and both parties can work together to effect some positive change.

I think Kevin Costner said it best in Bull Durham
"Don't think, Meat. You'll only hurt the team."

Nothing about this landslide has had anything to do with going in halfway on Obama's dumbass ideas as opposed to all-in on them. Unless the dummies are into working with the republiclowns to massively cut spending and waste, roll back obamacare, and start hauling the criminals in to answer for some of the stuff they've pulled over the last couple years, then there is nothing to be gained by "working together". No, the point is not to compromise with them; the point is to defeat them.

Send bill after bill aimed at reducing the defeceit and debt, reforming obamacare so it doesn't screw everyone, straightening out the union shenanigans, etc to the senate to be slapped down or to the president to be vetoed. Force all these crooks to go on record and defend their pro-ruin positions on everything. Then hammer them with all of it in 2012.

That is the soonest we can hope to get enough leverage to actually start fixing some of the damage that's been done.

[This message has been edited by D B Cooper (edited 11-03-2010).]

quote Originally posted by tbone42: First off "You guys" does not describe me. I am not a democrat or republican... I vote for candidates and issues, not for parties. So you're wrong. Secondly , thats convenient.. so everything that happens from now on that fits your political philosophy will be the actions of the republicans in the house, and everything you do not like will be because of those evil democrats in the senate. Lets face it, you just want it both ways so YOUR "side" (since you want to identify with sides..) can't be blamed. Tell me I'm wrong. I'm an independant moderate, I believe it is now time for both sides to come together and help our country.. you apparently believe the only reason republicans were elected was to further separate the two parties and make gridlock? I never said they had to cooperate and further Obama's agenda, but the had better cooperate or further drive our coutry into the swamp. So yeah, I AM SERIOUS.

1st:
Our country is ALREADY up to it's neck in the Dismal Swamp. Not only for now, but for the very long forseeable future, with no way out, short of severe austerity policy enactment, and that will not happen with veto power in the Excutive branch and lack of veto overide power in the Senate. Even if the House passes such fiscal responsiblity, and it squeaks by the Senate, Obama will veto anything he doesn't like and the Senate will not overide that veto.

2.

quote I never said they had to cooperate and further Obama's agenda, but they had better cooperate or further drive our coutry into the swamp. So yeah, I AM SERIOUS

/\ You just did say it. Read it, and see if that's not true. Cooperate with what and who? Obama and the Senate--not a chance. That's NOT what America voted for yesterday. The budget needs to be balanced, the deficit reduced, and it needs to be balanced NOW. There is no way to do so without severe austerity measures accross the board, almost certainly coupled with higher taxes for every single adult American citizen, and there is no way in hades that will happen with this administration and it's veto proof Senate. This ridiculous crap of continually raising the debt ceiling every few months and passing that debt on to future generations is selfish garbage and totally unsustainable, not to mention making it ever harder for each succeeding generation to cope with the mess they inherit thru no fault of their own. So, the best we can hope for till exec power shifts, is simply to stop any more idiotic spending programs when they come up for vote in the house.

3. The blame/credit always goes to those with the most polical clout. With libs in both the executive branch, and in control of the legislative branch with veto responsibility (Senate), that equals that the blame goes to the liberals. Sorry if that's a revelation for you, but that's how it works--and it always has-- by way of constitutional mandate.

4. Fit MY political philosphy? No--it fits how the system was designed by the constitution. Think about it. Why did the full blown House version of Obamacare not pass into law with Public Option intact? Because it couldn't get out of the Senate after Scott Brown was elected.

5. No, the new House will not (damn well better not) reach accross the aisle to the liberals in a show of "cooperation" and to the Senate to continue these bailouts, entitlements, Ungodly spending practices and pork.

6. Gridlock? Probably. OR, Obama and the Senate can "cooperate" with the House majority and get spending under control, and then sponsor and implement a balanced budget amendment along with austerity on or beyond the level of the European nations of Greece/Portugal etc.
Odd, i haven't seen you call for that to happen, which I would wholeheartily have expected from a "moderate".

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-03-2010).]

Hes hoping the republicans will give the transparency the voters want.......ROFLMAO....ya, hes all about that himself....everything as underhanded and under the table as he can make them....to hell with the constitutionality or what the people want.

Hes always touting 'hope and change'..............well now hes got it.

And everything he said blamed anything on anybody else but himself. At least now hes successful at something political...hes officially a loser now. 2 more years and he will join his cronies. Incumbent, but an 'also ran loser'.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Well, look who showed up! Your continued belief in this is your downfall. It's the same mentality of the majority in California, which is figuratively slipping into the ocean because of liberal policies. Obama and the Dems added 4 trillion dollars to the national debt in less than 2 years. You don't see that as a major problem?

Conned didn't see anything wrong with anything as long as Democrats had total control. Everything was Bush's fault and the Dems could do no wrong.
The moment the GOP regains any semblance of power, he's the first one to jump in to talk about blame.

You can infer from his relative silence over the last 2 years that he either supported everything the Dems did, or that he's only interested in complaining about Republicans, regardless of whether he agrees with the individual policies or not.

Shock, surprise, disbelief.

quote Originally posted by newf: I would think if the republican congress just blindly say NO to everything they will be giving Obama a free ride in 2012. They have a chance to show that the system isn't broken and both parties can work together to effect some positive change.

And will those Enemies of BO that he said could sit in the back just be used to further his blame game, or will he move to the middle?

He didn't give any indication of moving anywhere this morning.
If he don't move, the people will make him move in 2012.

quote Originally posted by newf: I would think if the republican congress just blindly say NO to everything they will be giving Obama a free ride in 2012. They have a chance to show that the system isn't broken and both parties can work together to effect some positive change.

So it's up to Republicans to show "both parties" can work together?
No. It's up to "both parties" to show they can work together.

quote Originally posted by newf: I would think if the republican congress just blindly say NO to everything they will be giving Obama a free ride in 2012. They have a chance to show that the system isn't broken and both parties can work together to effect some positive change.

Think of the election as a restraining order issued on an out of control president and congress. If they can successfully say no to more of these ridiculous policies, people will be pleased enough.

The system is not broken, that was proven last night.

The moderate dems will be jumping on the bandwagon, that is where the reaching across the isle will come from.

quote Originally posted by Flamberge: Serious question, tbone: How? How do you see them helping the country? What do you expect both sides to accomplish? (In other words, would you add more to spending, would you cut it? Would you scale back or annul our shotgun marriage to Obamacare? etc.)

Wow Flamberge.. thats a wonderful question! You, sir, have the right attitude. Let's talk. These are just ideas I have, may not all work or may not all be popular, but I bet all of them could improve our situatuon.

I think they could revisit the health care bill and revise it, make it more of what the American people want, and less of what did not make sense. (Available affordable health care for the poor, but no mandatory health care.) I am seriously concerned about that, though.. what happens if you get sick and have no insurance? Do you file bankruptcy on the bills? Government is STILL going to have to pay, one way or the other. That means we all pay. If I were able to choose a better health care plan than I have now, gov't sponsored or not, I would. My health care is practically non-existant, so most things would be an improvement to me. I do not like the idea of 'welfare insurance' but I am also tired of not having quality insurance out of my financial reach. We all need that backstop, not just rich people. But yeah, we americans are great at making purses from sow's ears, why could we not re-visit and rehash the health care bill and make it positive, instead of scrapping it utterly? The legislation for pre-existing conditions is spot on, and if removed, would be tragic. Its about people's well being and health.. and it ended up being a war of words between insurance companies, doctors, and the governement.

I believe we should spend more money on schools, less money on defense contracts. We have a lot of guns and bombs already, and if we need more, we'll get some more in production. US soldiers should get a payraise (paricularly enlisted men Under E-6) and hazard pay should double where it is now. Veterans services should be improved, this is no way to treat those who have served our country. As a vet, this is quite concerning and has been to me since I finished my service.

Raise taxes. Yep, you heard it here first. We need to tax a few things here and there to pay for our enormous debt from 2 wars. I would love to be taxed as little as possible, but how do we pay off the defecit without taxes? I recommend higher taxes on : Alcohol. Tobacco, New Car/ secondary car purchases, Firearms, Secondary home purchases, caffeinated beverages and sugary sweets. Golden opportunity for billions in taxes every year was missed when prop 19 failed.. instead, we let Mexico cartels make that cash. If almost half of America could potentially be customers of a taxable product, it just does not make sense to deny that because some people are getting "high". So what? I can eat 3 twinkies and get high, too. If they legalized, I could smoke AND eat 3 twinkies, and thats double your tax money being collected.

CLOSE OUR BORDER WITH MEXICO. If they will not control their fence jumpers, then we need to start doing so, Warning signs, people with high powered rifles (aim to wound, of course) and immediate deportation of anyone found illegally in this country. This might cost money, but it will save some jobs, too. That would help our economy.. I would do landscaping work, but no one wants to pay more than minimum wage to a real american citizen... so why break my back if the pay is not fair? This needs to end - I want to plant trees, but Juan Suarez is doing it for cut rates. I dont buy the "they're doing jobs no one wants to do" line. Thats BS. They are doing it for less than minmum wage, and thats why Americans do not want those jobs - not the actual work.

I would otherwise cut spending across the board, particularly to foreign aid and humanitarian aid. We owe China a lot of money, thats $$$ that needs to get paid off asap. I say we start collecting on debts that have been owed to us long enough, and if they do not have our money, we'll take it in real estate. This kind of hardball would probablyt be hard to achieve, but that does not make it any less right. The rest of the world is just gonna have to get on without our help for a few years while we try to contain our own problems internally.

End the war in Afghanistan. Pull out and give Bin Laden a sense of security.. let him embolden himself enough so we can find him and drop a bomb on him. Terrorism is never gonna go away.. but they are easier to kill if you get them in the open.

End welfare for anyone with more than 2 kids, or anyone who has children while already receiving state aid. Alter unemployment benefits so it affects only those whose bosses have substanitially paid into it, not just for 5 months. (More like 2 years or longer would be appropriate..)

Increase funding to alternative energy sources.. windmills, dams, and solar panels. Offer bigger tax breaks for those that purchase and use them. Raise the MPG for all new cars by 10mpg, and cut our dependance to foreign oil in half.

Anyhow, a bunch of big ideas, I know.. but I believe a lot of that could go a long way to help our country. Then again, you need everyone in government COOPERATING to get some of that done...I personally believe its going to be partisan business as usual, nothing will be accomplished, and we will have wasted 2 more years arguing over semantics when the real glaring problems that everyone can agree on are still staring us right in the face.

Thanks for asking, Flamberge. Glad to see someone want to talk about solutions.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Think of the election as a restraining order issued on an out of control president and congress. If they can successfully say no to more of these ridiculous policies, people will be pleased enough. The system is not broken, that was proven last night. The moderate dems will be jumping on the bandwagon, that is where the reaching across the isle will come from.

...and possibly some of the chamelions that don't want to risk being on record opposing the TEA party reforms between now and 2012.

quote Originally posted by partfiero: He didn't give any indication of moving anywhere this morning. If he don't move, the people will make him move in 2012.

Agreed both sides need to work together not just one. A strong opposition is a good thing IMO.

quote Originally posted by tbone42: Wow Flamberge.. thats a wonderful question! You, sir, have the right attitude. Let's talk. These are just ideas I have, may not all work or may not all be popular, but I bet all of them could improve our situatuon. I think they could revisit the health care bill and revise it, make it more of what the American people want, and less of what did not make sense. (Available affordable health care for the poor, but no mandatory health care.) I am seriously concerned about that, though.. what happens if you get sick and have no insurance? Do you file bankruptcy on the bills? Government is STILL going to have to pay, one way or the other. That means we all pay. If I were able to choose a better health care plan than I have now, gov't sponsored or not, I would. My health care is practically non-existant, so most things would be an improvement to me. I do not like the idea of 'welfare insurance' but I am also tired of not having quality insurance out of my financial reach. We all need that backstop, not just rich people. But yeah, we americans are great at making purses from sow's ears, why could we not re-visit and rehash the health care bill and make it positive, instead of scrapping it utterly? The legislation for pre-existing conditions is spot on, and if removed, would be tragic. Its about people's well being and health.. and it ended up being a war of words between insurance companies, doctors, and the governement. I believe we should spend more money on schools, less money on defense contracts. We have a lot of guns and bombs already, and if we need more, we'll get some more in production. US soldiers should get a payraise (paricularly enlisted men Under E-6) and hazard pay should double where it is now. Veterans services should be improved, this is no way to treat those who have served our country. As a vet, this is quite concerning and has been to me since I finished my service. Raise taxes. Yep, you heard it here first. We need to tax a few things here and there to pay for our enormous debt from 2 wars. I would love to be taxed as little as possible, but how do we pay off the defecit without taxes? I recommend higher taxes on : Alcohol. Tobacco, New Car/ secondary car purchases, Firearms, Secondary home purchases, caffeinated beverages and sugary sweets. Golden opportunity for billions in taxes every year was missed when prop 19 failed.. instead, we let Mexico cartels make that cash. If almost half of America could potentially be customers of a taxable product, it just does not make sense to deny that because some people are getting "high". So what? I can eat 3 twinkies and get high, too. If they legalized, I could smoke AND eat 3 twinkies, and thats double your tax money being collected. CLOSE OUR BORDER WITH MEXICO. If they will not control their fence jumpers, then we need to start doing so, Warning signs, people with high powered rifles (aim to wound, of course) and immediate deportation of anyone found illegally in this country. This might cost money, but it will save some jobs, too. That would help our economy.. I would do landscaping work, but no one wants to pay more than minimum wage to a real american citizen... so why break my back if the pay is not fair? This needs to end - I want to plant trees, but Juan Suarez is doing it for cut rates. I dont buy the "they're doing jobs no one wants to do" line. Thats BS. They are doing it for less than minmum wage, and thats why Americans do not want those jobs - not the actual work. I would otherwise cut spending across the board, particularly to foreign aid and humanitarian aid. We owe China a lot of money, thats $$$ that needs to get paid off asap. I say we start collecting on debts that have been owed to us long enough, and if they do not have our money, we'll take it in real estate. This kind of hardball would probablyt be hard to achieve, but that does not make it any less right. The rest of the world is just gonna have to get on without our help for a few years while we try to contain our own problems internally. End the war in Afghanistan. Pull out and give Bin Laden a sense of security.. let him embolden himself enough so we can find him and drop a bomb on him. Terrorism is never gonna go away.. but they are easier to kill if you get them in the open. End welfare for anyone with more than 2 kids, or anyone who has children while already receiving state aid. Alter unemployment benefits so it affects only those whose bosses have substanitially paid into it, not just for 5 months. (More like 2 years or longer would be appropriate..) Increase funding to alternative energy sources.. windmills, dams, and solar panels. Offer bigger tax breaks for those that purchase and use them. Raise the MPG for all new cars by 10mpg, and cut our dependance to foreign oil in half. Anyhow, a bunch of big ideas, I know.. but I believe a lot of that could go a long way to help our country. Then again, you need everyone in government COOPERATING to get some of that done...I personally believe its going to be partisan business as usual, nothing will be accomplished, and we will have wasted 2 more years arguing over semantics when the real glaring problems that everyone can agree on are still staring us right in the face. Thanks for asking, Flamberge. Glad to see someone want to talk about solutions.

Don't they already have pretty much everything you just mentioned over in Spain ?

quote Originally posted by maryjane: /\ You just did say it. Read it, and see if that's not true. Cooperate with what and who? Obama and the Senate--not a chance. That's NOT what America voted for yesterday. The budget needs to be balanced, the deficit reduced, and it needs to be balanced NOW. There is no way to do so without severe austerity measures accross the board, almost certainly coupled with higher taxes for every single adult American citizen, and there is no way in hades that will happen with this administration and it's veto proof Senate. This ridiculous crap of continually raising the debt ceiling every few months and passing that debt on to future generations is selfish garbage and totally unsustainable, not to mention making it ever harder for each succeeding generation to cope with the mess they inherit thru no fault of their own. So, the best we can hope for till exec power shifts, is simply to stop any more idiotic spending programs when they come up for vote in the house. 3. The blame/credit always goes to those with the most polical clout. With libs in both the executive branch, and in control of the legislative branch with veto responsibility (Senate), that equals that the blame goes to the liberals. Sorry if that's a revelation for you, but that's how it works--and it always has-- by way of constitutional mandate. 4. Fit MY political philosphy? No--it fits how the system was designed by the constitution. Think about it. Why did the full blown House version of Obamacare not pass into law with Public Option intact? Because it couldn't get out of the Senate after Scott Brown was elected. 5. No, the new House will not (damn well better not) reach accross the aisle to the liberals in a show of "cooperation" and to the Senate to continue these bailouts, entitlements, Ungodly spending practices and pork. 6. Gridlock? Probably. OR, Obama and the Senate can "cooperate" with the House majority and get spending under control, and then sponsor and implement a balanced budget amendment along with austerity on or beyond the level of the European nations of Greece/Portugal etc. Odd, i haven't seen you call for that to happen, which I would wholeheartily have expected from a "moderate".

Sorry to say, Democrats are not the only ones that sneak pork into their bills. If you want to know what I think we should do with relation to spending, see my post above. You can call me a "moderate", like I really am not.. thats fine. Don't expect me to share my voting record with you, its not your ****ing business. But, I have never brought up any questions as to your identity or integrity. I'll keep it that way, thats your shortcoming. You are not the only one who has sacrificed for your country, so stop acting like you are the authority on whether someone is genuinely interested in seeing this country succeed.. label me however you want. I served, I pay taxes, and I am still very interested in country's success and forward movement.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 11-03-2010).]

quote Originally posted by newf: My comment above may have come out wrong, the second line where I say "they" I meant both parties need to show they can work together. Sorry about that.

I guess you just don't understand. Speaking for myself but I believe I am also speaking for the vast majority of voters from last night. There is no compromise. We are fed up and will not take it any longer. Working within the established rules, the only option is the folks we sent to Congress can and will stop the madness. Just maybe the Yellow Dog Dems will have learned a lesson from this but, any substantial changes also have to pass the Senate and a most likely veto by the President. So we're back to a stalemate.

Hopefully, we can fix this mess in the next couple of years but most likely, real change that we can believe in will only come when Obama, Pelosi and Reid are permanently benched. As I said, the more conservative side of this country is fed up. There will be change or, this country will not survive as it currently exists. This, I am sure of.

Ron

I look at it this way... the voters have spoken. The Dems have gone too far and Americans want them checked. For those who think America still wants Obama's agenda, just look at the 2nd and tell me why Obama supporters were not out supporting him.

Hope and change has only brought about hate and fear.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: I guess you just don't understand. Speaking for myself but I believe I am also speaking for the vast majority of voters from last night. There is no compromise. We are fed up and will not take it any longer. Working within the established rules, the only option is the folks we sent to Congress can and will stop the madness. Just maybe the Yellow Dog Dems will have learned a lesson from this but, any substantial changes also have to pass the Senate and a most likely veto by the President. So we're back to a stalemate. Hopefully, we can fix this mess in the next couple of years but most likely, real change that we can believe in will only come when Obama, Pelosi and Reid are permanently benched. As I said, the more conservative side of this country is fed up. There will be change or, this country will not survive as it currently exists. This, I am sure of. Ron

I don't understand that way of thinking at all. If you have nothing but gridlock and stalemate because of a republican congress I don't imagine the public will be voting for a republican in 2012. My impression is people want the economy and job situation fixed, if that doesn't happen and it appears to the public that one side was trying and the other side just blocked things for the sake of blocking it won't be pretty for whoever is holding things back IMO.

quote Originally posted by tbone42: Democrats are not the only ones that sneak pork into their bills.

You are correct, both sides have been doing this for way too long.

quote Originally posted by tbone42: I am still very interested in country's success and forward movement.

Therein lies part of the problem, the definition of success and forward movement. What's you're idea of success and forward movement?

Ron

quote Originally posted by tbone42: I think they could revisit the health care bill and revise it, make it more of what the American people want, and less of what did not make sense. (Available affordable health care for the poor, but no mandatory health care.) I believe we should spend more money on schools, less money on defense contracts. CLOSE OUR BORDER WITH MEXICO.

Well, you are asking for BOTH sides to work on things. It isn't YOUR fault, but that actually is PRETTY FUNNY.


Revisit the healthcare bill. You REALLY want Republicans to work together on the health care bill? They TRIED for the entire time. And the democrats COMPLETELY rebuffed them. And then they passed a bill that THEY HADN'T EVEN READ AND DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS IN IT.
THAT is the kind of "leadership" you want the republicans to partner with??

What in the world are you thinking? That isn't the kind of people you can do anything with. People who don't even know what they are voting on. And put THAT level of a TURD of a bill on the american public.

Myself and other Americans specifically voted for people that WOULDN'T try to work with THAT level of incompetence.
"Spend more money on schools." Really? Why? There has never been ONE study in the history of studies BY ACADEMICIANS that has found a correlation between the amount of money spent and the educational performance of the students. Spend more money for no gain. That is a recipe I want my legislators to get bipartisan on.

"Close our borders with Mexico". So you want republicans to work with a group who have threatened to SUE states that actually want to obey the laws and do that. Where is the common ground to work with that type of people??
Look, I would love both sides to come together and actually do things to help the country. The sides are too diametrically opposed in how to help the country. When you are THAT far apart, or are working with people THAT incompetent (health care fiasco) there IS no working with them. It just can't be done.


The democrats have PROVEN how destructive they are to the country over the past 2 years. If after the health care bill, and the spending bill, and just the incredibly reckless IDEA and THREAT of "cap and trade"; you don't still see it, then you probably never will.

I'm not trying to be mean in saying that. I can't help it. It is just right in front of everyone's eyes.


Now in fairness, the republican performance for the past decade was hapless and pathetic, too. We deserved WAY better. Don't think those of us that voted for the republicans aren't going to be constantly on their behinds about doing the right thing. But this reaching across and being bipartisan? Can't be done and shouldn't be done.

quote Originally posted by newf: I don't understand that way of thinking at all. If you have nothing but gridlock and stalemate because of a republican congress I don't imagine the public will be voting for a republican in 2012. My impression is people want the economy and job situation fixed, if that doesn't happen and it appears to the public that one side was trying and the other side just blocked things for the sake of blocking it won't be pretty for whoever is holding things back IMO.

Spending more than you have the potential to pay back is not a hard concept to grasp. Someone has to eventually has to pay the bills. We don't want to pass the last two years of stupidity on to our children and grandchildren. There will be plenty of suffering, let there be no doubt. Many of us are already suffering and expect it to get worse. Personal responsibility and accountability can be a b1tch when you do stupid things. The last two or more years, we've been very stupid. Stopping this madness is the first step.

Ron

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Therein lies part of the problem, the definition of success and forward movement. What's you're idea of success and forward movement? Ron

Good question, Ron. Success is less people on public assistance and with jobs, less people filing bankruptcy, especially on medical bills they never had $$$ to pay for because of insufficient insurance. Forward movement is social and technological advancement and implementation to reduce waste, pollution, sickness, hunger and poverty, to raise all boats, so to speak. Advancement of America as a country will only come from cooperation, not dictation of one party. Or has everyone here that thinks cooperation is bad been asleep for 4 years? Do you think one party control the other way will be better? (Not specifically at you there, Ron.. just a question for anyone.) America is not all Republican, and not all Democrat.. neither group having complete control is goingto accomplish anything.

Our entire country is founded on compromise, we need to get back to that.

quote Originally posted by newf: I don't understand that way of thinking at all. If you have nothing but gridlock and stalemate because of a republican congress I don't imagine the public will be voting for a republican in 2012. My impression is people want the economy and job situation fixed, if that doesn't happen and it appears to the public that one side was trying and the other side just blocked things for the sake of blocking it won't be pretty for whoever is holding things back IMO.

If there is only gridlock it will fall on the shoulders of the pres.
If our economy is bad in 2012, a ton more will be gone, not just the republicans.
The people are sick of DC and the friggen debt that they have piled on and on, and they are awake.

When I opened my Amazon account this morning, and I sell to young families, there were more orders by noon than I have had in one whole day since the economy started it's down turn.
So some young families are feeling better today!

quote Originally posted by tbone42: Advancement of America as a country will only come from cooperation, not dictation of one party.

Please tell me you weren't sleeping when President Obama said of the Health Care Bill, we have the votes, we don't need them or when he said the Republicans can come along if they want but they have to sit in the back. (Not precise quotes but essentially correct.)

But, you have some excellent goals, but how to get there. For example, I would cut social entitlement programs to bare minimums. Because I know people that are hungry will work (or steal). More self-reliance is essential. No one, not you, me or the American Taxpayer owes anyone a living. The constitution doesn't go there. BTW, I have a answer for those that wish to steal. But, I'll bet that we have different ideas on how to raise those social values.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 11-03-2010).]

Part of the problem is that when you try to raise "all boats", some of those boats are just anchors. Look at our current state of affairs... we have people who would rather be on welfare and they don't want to work. How do you improve those people's lives without forcing others to pay for their way? Not all boats will float, some will need to be patched, and still, some will sink. Not everyone is willing to keep their boat floating, some will just sit it out and wait for a rescue, over and over

quote Originally posted by tbone42: Swinging far right is just as destructive as swinging far left. We all meet in the middle to make what America is. If you do not believe that, perhaps somewhere less melting-pot-like would be better for you?

Define far to the right.

quote Originally posted by partfiero: Define far to the right.

Opposite of far to the left.

quote Originally posted by tbone42: That makes me sad. Reaching across the aisle has hapened abunch in the past, with success. Swinging far right is just as destructive as swinging far left. We all meet in the middle to make what America is. If you do not believe that, perhaps somewhere less melting-pot-like would be better for you?

Swinging far right and far left MEANS:

people that believe in a constitutional republic but some to the left and some to the right OF A CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. When you swing OFF a constitutional republic, and into socialism, you really don't get to be called "left" any more.


I AM all for compromising with people that want to live in a constitutional republic. I will NEVER compromise with people that try to subvert the constitution and drag this country into socialism.


You say "swing far right". That actually is kind of funny. Why don't you say it like the democrats say it? "EXTREME right wing RADICALS". The only thing is, the democrats of today would have called the founders of the constitution "extreme right wing radicals".
The democrats of today would have accused DEMOCRATIC president John F. Kennedy of "swinging far right".


I'm not the one that moved. I'll still reach across to the middle. Half the democrats aren't there. They are socialists. I live in a constitutional republic. They don't get to change it. Now if there are some democrats that still believe in a constitutional republic that want to somehow get involved, fine.


And philosophically, you are looking for the government for the wrong thing. You keep talking about the GOVERNMENT solving the problems we are facing. Oh brother. Then we are REALLY hopeless as a country. We need the government to GET OUT OF THE WAY. We don't need the government to "fix things". Just quit screwing things up. Just create a fair, predictable environment and then get out of the way and let THE PEOPLE solve the problems.

Ya, all the Demos thought they were locked in because their messiah is in office. Well America showed them who their bosses are didnt they. Now theyre all out of work. Wonder how many of them want a bailout now. Maybe those left like in the senate will now take a second thought before rubber stamping anything Obama throws at them. Wonder what kind of retaliation hes going to do that wont look like it. That blows the mexicans getting citizenship pretty well for starters.

quote Originally posted by tbone42: And where does this idea of acceptable theft come from? . . . . Props to you Ron, for being rational and willing to discuss.

Didn't mean to infer you or anyone else thought theft was acceptable just that if social entitlement programs were cut to bare minimum, folks would either work or steal. Just an example, not directed at you personally. All of the Liberals I personally know have pretty strong feelings about items being stolen from them.

Rational is my middle name. Yeah, I got made fun of in school till I brought my older sister's .45 to class.

Ron

quote Originally posted by Tigger: Quote of the day from the newly elect Republican leader of the House, Rep. John Boehner on cutting government spending. "We'll make a lot of decisions over the coming months." That's some real leadership there. Campaigning is one thing, governing is another. Good Luck with that.

You aren't a stupid person, so why would you post something so stupid regarding "that's some real leadership there."

IF the quote was from "newly elected" John Boehner, then his response would have been in a television interview. You KNOW they want 30 second sound bite answers. What? He was supposed to think he had 15 minutes of air time to outline the government cuts he would like to make on A TRILLION DOLLARS OF OVERSPENDING?

Your lack of a realistic expectation of what his response should be considering the scenario under which he was asked the question shows that you were just looking for a reason to criticize him. (and that you really AREN'T stupid, just biased and critical).

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: You aren't a stupid person, so why would you post something so stupid regarding "that's some real leadership there." IF the quote was from "newly elected" John Boehner, then his response would have been in a television interview.

While you're discussing this with Tigger please let him know, it is of only slight importance but Rep. Boehner hasn't been newly elected to anything. When the new Congress meets, they will select a new Speaker of the House. It is presumed Rep Boehner is the front runner but, he hasn't been newly elected to squat.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 11-03-2010).]

tbone42, I put "" around moderate, because by definition, a moderate takes in a LOT of territory--in either direction. Moderate republican--moderate democrat-moderate independant. I'm a prolific reader of virtually every post here PFF and have read most of yours, and do not remember you specifically-- prior to this thread, seriously protest anything the progressive liberals are currently doing.
You've spoken ill of the Iraq/Afghanistan wars in the past. You want to cut defense spending

quote I believe we should spend more money on schools, less money on defense contracts.

A long time liberal platform.

You are in favor of govt financial support for green energy.

quote Increase funding to alternative energy sources.. windmills, dams, and solar panels. Offer bigger tax breaks for those that purchase and use them. Raise the MPG for all new cars by 10mpg, and cut our dependance to foreign oil in half.

A long time liberal platform..

You are in favor of raising taxes on sin products and items the wealthier citizens acquire.

quote I recommend higher taxes on : Alcohol. Tobacco, New Car/ secondary car purchases, Firearms, Secondary home purchases, caffeinated beverages and sugary sweets.

Tax the more affluent--a long time liberal battlecry.

You are in favor of legalizing and taxing recreational use of marijuana.

quote Golden opportunity for billions in taxes every year was missed when prop 19 failed.. instead, we let Mexico cartels make that cash. If almost half of America could potentially be customers of a taxable product, it just does not make sense to deny that because some people are getting "high".

Again, a liberal stance.

You mention Healthcare reform revisited, but basically, you would leave it pretty much like it is accoring to your most recent coment on it.

quote (Available affordable health care for the poor, but no mandatory health care.) I am seriously concerned about that, though.. what happens if you get sick and have no insurance? Do you file bankruptcy on the bills? Government is STILL going to have to pay, one way or the other. That means we all pay. If I were able to choose a better health care plan than I have now, gov't sponsored or not, I would. My health care is practically non-existant, so most things would be an improvement to me. I do not like the idea of 'welfare insurance' but I am also tired of not having quality insurance out of my financial reach. We all need that backstop,

Sounds a lot like Democrat Senator Reid. Where's the tort reform part of it?

You say your are moderate, and I suppose compared to many, you may be, but you don't sound like it.

Me:
The single biggest Federal budget outlay is health and social service--not defense. Defence is 2nd.
Social Security. Scrap it. Cut off date of age 49 years and 6 months. Older than that, you can file for what your lifetime benefit is, paid out just as it is now. If you are between the ages of 18 and 30, you are sol in regards to the little ya have paid in. 30-50, you get all your contribution back lump sum to roll into a retirement fund of your own choosing--or if you are an irresponsible type--spend it on booze, drugs, big boy toys and crap. If, a young person cannot plan for their retirement/senior years, they deserve whatever they did plan for--it's that simple.

If you are drawing it at the date of enactment, you continue to draw till you are deceased.Green energy: Give much more significant tax credits to private industry to develop and implement alternative energy. Private industry should get no direct cash infusion to do it. They can get their R&D money back when it's up and running, just like any business. A nationwide comprehensive nuclear power plan makes the most sense to me--it's proven world wide.

On borders, I agree, shut them down tight---with US military if neccessary. Begin immediately deportation of every illegal alien found here. They can have a choice of taking their US born offspring with them or leaving them here.

Taxes--As I posted in another thread recently---Significant accross the board increases for every US citizen. Every $ garnered from that increase must, by law, 1/2 must be used directly for debt/deficit reduction. Balanced budget amendment is paramount--it has to happen. If we don't have the $ for it--it doesn't happen, and no 'double funding'. If a war comes, we sell war bonds or we don't fight.

8 yr term limits for US congress--with a minimum of 8 yrs in private before running again. I don't like career politicians, but as long as they sit 8 yrs out every 8 yrs in office-minimum, I can live with them.

Jobs:
1/2 of every dollar collected under an increased federal tax, is to be used to create private sector jobs thru tax credits only if a company hires new people.

20 yr moratorium on federal jobs--federal job freeze. We have enough federal buracracy presently, to smother us.

And you are correct-- I have absolutely no requirement, need or desire to know how you voted.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: 1. Social Security. Scrap it. Cut off date of age 49 years and 6 months. Older than that, you can file for what your lifetime benefit is, paid out just as it is now. If you are between the ages of 18 and 30, you are sol in regards to the little ya have paid in. 30-50, you get all your contribution back lump sum to roll into a retirement fund of your own choosing--or if you are an irresponsible type--spend it on booze, drugs, big boy toys and crap. If, a young person cannot plan for their retirement/senior years, they deserve whatever they did plan for--it's that simple. If you are drawing it at the date of enactment, you continue to draw till you are deceased.Green energy: Give much more significant tax credits to private industry to develop and implement alternative energy. Private industry should get no direct cash infusion to do it. They can get their R&D money back when it's up and running, just like any business. A nationwide comprehensive nuclear power plan makes the most sense to me--it's proven world wide. 2. On borders, I agree, shut them down tight---with US military if neccessary. Begin immediately deportation of every illegal alien found here. They can have a choice of taking their US born offspring with them or leaving them here. 3. Taxes--As I posted in another thread recently---Significant accross the board (tax?) increases for every US citizen. Every $ garnered from that increase must, by law, 1/2 must be used directly for debt/deficit reduction. Balanced budget amendment is paramount--it has to happen. If we don't have the $ for it--it doesn't happen, and no 'double funding'. If a war comes, we sell war bonds or we don't fight. 4. 8 yr term limits for US congress--with a minimum of 8 yrs in private before running again. I don't like career politicians, but as long as they sit 8 yrs out every 8 yrs in office-minimum, I can live with them. 5. 1/2 of every dollar collected under an increased federal tax, is to be used to create private sector jobs thru tax credits only if a company hires new people. 6. 20 yr moratorium on federal jobs--federal job freeze. We have enough federal buracracy presently, to smother us.

The more I think about your solution to our current situation, the more I am beginning to see it as a kind of "tuff-love".
The thing I get stuck on, is what happens to the group of people that fall into the "lazy people" catch-all?
The people that don't plan, don't work, or just plain go broke?
Where do people who have nothing, for whatever reason, live & die?
Do beggers get thrown in jail?

Where do you put the people that don't conform to The New Order?

P.S. I personally don't like your idea about S.S. (becouse I lose), but I believe it would work and maybe even it's time has arrived.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 11-03-2010).]