Well, today I was out for a drive, and I came across a 1966 Oldsmobile Toronado sitting on the side of the road... Looked like it's been there for a while, so I pulled over and took a look. Now, I know the reputation for these cars as over-built tanks, and, exceptionally beautiful ones at that, which is why I was so interested. Sure enough, I found an old For Sale sign in the grass about 20 feet away from the car (Got blown off apparently)

There are a few holes rusted in the body near the wheel wells, and a couple pin-holes in the back of the trunk, but nothing I cannot fix. And, really, these are secondary concerns... The tabs on the front Minnesota license plates are black, and have a "9" on it, though the second digit is oblitterated... I think this makes it 96, or 98, but my memory is sketchy on the colors back then, since I didn't have a drivers license yet :P

If the car has been sitting for 12, or even 14 years, in a grassy field... is it at all likely that there is anything left of the sub-frame on the car? Or, that the engine and transmission might still be good? This would be an increadible car to restore if I could get it at a reasonable price. I was thinking maybe $300-500? Maybe $800 if it actually runs as-is (not a chance) I haven't called and asked about it yet, because I wanted to know more about what I'm looking at before I make any kind of offer, or enter any kind of discussion about it.

Thoughts? Opinions?



If it's as pure-stock as it seems to be, it should have a 425 Super-Rocket V-8, as well as a TH-425 3-speed automatic FWD transmission. The interrior looks in surprisingly good shape, with no cracks in the front dash. Leather seats with one split seam (mendable), with a destroyed headliner. Again, I haven't seen under the hood, or under the chassis, as I need the keys for such a peek...

Thanks.

Was the phone number on the 'For Sale' sign a 5-digit one?

Beautiful car! I would love to see someone restore it. Im sure it would be a hell lot of work but in the long run worth it....Near where I live there is a 1978 Z-28 camaro in about the same condition and i wish i could restore it!

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: Was the phone number on the 'For Sale' sign a 5-digit one?

Nooooo o.o Were phone numbers only 5 digits in the 60's or something? XD It's a seven digit phone number, the car is about 20 miles from where I live, and the prefix is the same as mine, so it should be a local number... the question becoming, how long has that sign been there, is the person dead or moved on and the car left abandoned... but, that too is something that can only be found with the call :P

quote Originally posted by faalvino: Beautiful car! I would love to see someone restore it. Im sure it would be a hell lot of work but in the long run worth it....Near where I live there is a 1978 Z-28 camaro in about the same condition and i wish i could restore it!

Yeah, I know! I saw it on my way out and I just knew I had to swing by and check it out on my way back... Those '66 Toronado's are something else, there's really nothing styled quite like them. My research says that the Toro is a sub-frame car, so that makes it similar to a Fiero, in terms of structure, right? It'd definitely be a project... but, I feel it would be a worthwhile one...



Problem with Camaro's are, they're unibody... if the bottom rusts out, the car is finished, I know this, because I have an '86 Camaro that's got a torn seam where two panels meet on the bottom, and the back end will fall off eventually if it's not repaired. So, I'm gonna see if I can pull the interrior (which is near pristine) and put it into my El Camino before scrapping the car.

[This message has been edited by Twilight Fenrir (edited 03-23-2010).]

I worked for an Oldsmobile dealer in the late '60s. The first time I got into a Toronado, I HAD to do a front wheel burnout on a wet patch of the lot.
Very cool cars.
Here's one you'll like: http://www.popularmechanics..._garage/1563517.html

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...Drive safely!

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 03-23-2010).]

Very rare to find a car in that situation with all its windows intact and up. Good find. There are many ways this could go. First thing is find out who owns it and go from there, ask around the homes nearby. There is a good chance you would be replacing almost everything in the fuel system including the gas tank, rebuilding or replacing carb. Most things in the brake system. Up here in the northern states of corrision sitting outdoors can take it's toll. The trunkfloor is most likely rusted out as well as the outer sides of both floor pans in front, but having its glass it is possibly better shape than that. I have seen cars like this, and tried to move them and the wheels would not even turn. If it is on hiogh ground so it was never in water, and high off the ground so it is not bottomed out it might not be too bad rusted. Automatic transmissions don't like being put away with old dirty fluid for many years outdoors either.. you never know.
Are the doors locked? You gotta go back and take pics of under the hood, and see the odometer miles !

That 66 probably has an Oldsmobile 425 cubic inch V8. Another thing that's VERY cool about it is that the Th-425 transmission that's in there, is a "Switch Pitch". What that means is that the stator switches the stall speed. So for example, on take-off, you'll get a high stall speed for improved acceleration, but on the highway and normal driving, you get a calmer stall speed. This improves fuel economy, AND acceleration (one of the reasons why these earlier transmissions were as quick as the late 60s cars even though they usually had smaller engines).

That car is not a "sub-framed" car... it's a FULL FRAMED car. It's built just like a Cadillac Eldorado (same chassis). It's basically a solid steel frame, with a body bolted on top of it. (like a pick up truck, or a modern day Crown Victoria).

You could actually cut the roof off, and the car would not collapse in on itself (not that you would do this though).


It's definitely worth fixing up. For some reason though, they don't hold substantial value. I don't know why, but they simply don't have the same "draw" as say an Oldsmobile Cutlass, or a Holiday coupe. I think the front drive Th-425 has always remained relatively unpopular to many people.

But that said, the Toronado was Oldsmobile's flag-ship car, and was always AS QUICK if not more so than the Cutlass.

That Th-425 is bullet proof too... so is the engine.

The engine that's in there also is sought after because it came stock with a nodular crank. I mean, obviously in today's terms... it's kind of about as important as the older small block is. Since everyone can now get crank engines and / or LS engines... no one really cares about those old Camel Head 350 small blocks anymore (the pre-86 ones). But... this 425 engine is pretty rare...


It's an excellent car to restore.

I've got a 1969 Olds 455 Big Block that i've built up... they make SICK torque...

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Very rare to find a car in that situation with all its windows intact and up. Good find. There are many ways this could go. First thing is find out who owns it and go from there, ask around the homes nearby. There is a good chance you would be replacing almost everything in the fuel system including the gas tank, rebuilding or replacing carb. Most things in the brake system. Up here in the northern states of corrision sitting outdoors can take it's toll. The trunkfloor is most likely rusted out as well as the outer sides of both floor pans in front, but having its glass it is possibly better shape than that. I have seen cars like this, and tried to move them and the wheels would not even turn. If it is on hiogh ground so it was never in water, and high off the ground so it is not bottomed out it might not be too bad rusted. Automatic transmissions don't like being put away with old dirty fluid for many years outdoors either.. you never know. Are the doors locked? You gotta go back and take pics of under the hood, and see the odometer miles !

There aren't any homes nearby :P And the home on the lot it is on is very obviously abandoned... For some reason I didn't think to check if the doors were locked, I just assumed they were... Besides, it'd be rude to just poke into a car without talking to the owner first. The drivers side window is rolled down just about a quarter of an inch unfortunately, but from what I can see through the window it doesn't seem too bad... hard to say without opening the door, or jacking up the car. It's on high-ground relative to what's arround it, there's a ditch about 5 feet away that drops about 2-3 feet below the cars wheels. The tires are all extremely flat though, so she's sitting pretty low to the ground... Everyone's telling me I'm crazy for looking at ANOTHER car, but I know how rare these things are, and how much of a crime it is for that to be sitting there.

I figured I'd be replacing the floorpans and the trunk... that's almost a certainty, As well as the brake lines and fuel lines... Unfortunately, it's got 4-wheel drum-brakes, which should make them fairly decent at standing up to time, but don't perform as well as disc. The doors both appear to be completely rust free, though both fenders, and both quarter panels have some light rot near the base behind the wheel wells. The windshield has a crack in it, not enough to let water in or anything, but definitely something that would need replacement. From the outside, it seems everything is there, and orriginal. Hasn't had any major work done to it. Will have to wait and see what's under the hood... if anything.

Love the speedometer too, it's not a dial like a traditional car, but it's a wheel with numbers printed on it... kinda like on your odometer, but bigger... pretty unique.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: That 66 probably has an Oldsmobile 425 cubic inch V8. Another thing that's VERY cool about it is that the Th-425 transmission that's in there, is a "Switch Pitch". What that means is that the stator switches the stall speed. So for example, on take-off, you'll get a high stall speed for improved acceleration, but on the highway and normal driving, you get a calmer stall speed. This improves fuel economy, AND acceleration (one of the reasons why these earlier transmissions were as quick as the late 60s cars even though they usually had smaller engines). That car is not a "sub-framed" car... it's a FULL FRAMED car. It's built just like a Cadillac Eldorado (same chassis). It's basically a solid steel frame, with a body bolted on top of it. (like a pick up truck, or a modern day Crown Victoria). You could actually cut the roof off, and the car would not collapse in on itself (not that you would do this though). It's definitely worth fixing up. For some reason though, they don't hold substantial value. I don't know why, but they simply don't have the same "draw" as say an Oldsmobile Cutlass, or a Holiday coupe. I think the front drive Th-425 has always remained relatively unpopular to many people. But that said, the Toronado was Oldsmobile's flag-ship car, and was always AS QUICK if not more so than the Cutlass. That Th-425 is bullet proof too... so is the engine. The engine that's in there also is sought after because it came stock with a nodular crank. I mean, obviously in today's terms... it's kind of about as important as the older small block is. Since everyone can now get crank engines and / or LS engines... no one really cares about those old Camel Head 350 small blocks anymore (the pre-86 ones). But... this 425 engine is pretty rare... It's an excellent car to restore. I've got a 1969 Olds 455 Big Block that i've built up... they make SICK torque...

You're sure it's fully-framed? I got my info from Wikipedia, which I know isn't 100% all the time... But, a full frame would be stellar for my purpose, much easier to restore/rebuild. I see these things go on eBay fully restored for somewhere around $30,000 all the time, not that I'd be terribly interested in selling it when I'm done.

So, what kind of price range am I probably looking at? I was thinking between $3-500... is that reasonable? Heck, it's been sitting there so long, he may just say to take it [/over-optimism] I'll probably pass if the engine and tranny are gone. It's still a beautiful car, but would be too much work for me.



It's a beautiful thing...

[This message has been edited by Twilight Fenrir (edited 03-23-2010).]

How well do you know you local police? Are you friends with a mechanic?

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=168B&view=chapter#stat.168B.03

quote 168B.04 AUTHORITY TO IMPOUND VEHICLES. Subdivision 1.Abandoned or junk vehicles.Units of government and peace officers may take into custody and impound any abandoned or junk vehicle. Subd. 2. Unauthorized vehicles.(a) Units of government and peace officers may take into custody and impound any unauthorized vehicle under section 169.041. (b) A vehicle may also be impounded after it has been left unattended in one of the following public or private locations for the indicated period of time: (1) in a public location not governed by section 169.041: (i) on a highway and properly tagged by a peace officer, four hours; (ii) located so as to constitute an accident or traffic hazard to the traveling public, as determined by a peace officer, immediately; (iii) located so as to constitute an accident or traffic hazard to the traveling public within the Department of Transportation's eight-county metropolitan district, as determined by an authorized employee of the department's freeway service patrol, immediately; or (iv) that is a parking facility or other public property owned or controlled by a unit of government, properly posted, four hours; or (2) on private property: (i) that is single-family or duplex residential property, immediately; (ii) that is private, nonresidential property, properly posted, immediately; (iii) that is private, nonresidential property, not posted, 24 hours; (iv) that is private, nonresidential property of an operator of an establishment for the servicing, repair, or maintenance of motor vehicles, five business days after notifying the vehicle owner by certified mail, return receipt requested, of the property owner's intention to have the vehicle removed from the property; or (v) that is any residential property, properly posted, immediately. History: 1971 c 734 s 4; 1995 c 137 s 2; 2004 c 224 s 5; 2008 c 287 art 1 s 32

Hope no one else wants it.

not much help finding teh owner, but here is some car specific advice I found...

--

D"epends on if you want show car or driver. These cars had a multitude of options but can be difficult to repair if not working ie cruise control stuff, most are missing parts to make operable so be good at jury rigging if you want original appearance. Most door panels are cracked up or broken due to heavy handed closing. Again, for show it can get $$ to get fixed right or lots of looking to put a panel together. Also for door power options, usually the wires have been cut and spliced together so check for operation.Quite a bit of vacuum modules instead of electric but used parts are not too tough to find. Definately check pillars for rust, mainly down low by the windsheild, trunk sides where drain rubbers can come off- this was designed for better ventilation but has a bad habit of clogging up or the rubber gets brittle over time and leaks. Most NOS has gone through the roof, I think its speculation that these cars will get BIG MONEY if restored top notch and very little parts are being remanned. So if you plan on making a correct show car, grab your ***. But if you don't go nuts with particulars, really fun cars to drive and gets lots of attention. PS Join the Toro club, lots of advise on fixing and upgrading if you are hands on type."
http://forums.aaca.org/f136...toronado-259912.html
http://www.toronado.org/

Hilariously, it turns out the owner is my co-workers aunt! The last name on the mailbox was hers, so I asked about it... what are the odds?

And, the doors ARE open, so I poked about inside... it's apparently a snake-nest for the time being... but, the interior is in even better shape than I thought! Some pictures will follow shortly...

I did notice some rust on the upper portion of the A-pillar, where it meets the roof... but, I didn't see any at the base.

And, as it turns out, jurry-rigging is what I do best That's good to know, I won't focus on making it a 100% original anyway... I'll make it as good as I can, and that's all I expect out of the project.

I tried to look under the hood... but for the life of me I couldn't figure out how to open it! There weren't any levers in the passenger compartment, and I couldn't see anything through the grill... there's almost a foot of space between the grill and where the hood begins on the bloody thing... The front bumper is completely spotless though, on the bright side. And, the radiator appears to be in good condition.

the "L" would be low, and the "S" would be second.

Awesome I forgot it had that sweet speedo!

As for the hood opening, I don't know. There should not be any interior release, it shoudl all be outside. Only thing I can think of is try looking for a lever by the license plate?

quote Originally posted by Twilight Fenrir: 40,000 miles! Wewt! Too bad it doesn't have a 100K marker, impossible to say weather it's 100k, or 140k... And, what's with the strange gear markers on the shift-indicator? Reverse, Neutral, Drive, Sweet, and Ludicrous-speed?

More like park, reverse, neutral, drive, slow, ludicrously-slow
Same as P R N D 2 1


Does the hood open forward or backwards?

My brother got a scout and it took us 10 minutes of trying to open the hood to find out it opens backwards like a Fiero's.

[This message has been edited by LitebulbwithaFiero (edited 03-24-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Twilight Fenrir: You're sure it's fully-framed? I got my info from Wikipedia, which I know isn't 100% all the time... But, a full frame would be stellar for my purpose, much easier to restore/rebuild. I see these things go on eBay fully restored for somewhere around $30,000 all the time, not that I'd be terribly interested in selling it when I'm done. So, what kind of price range am I probably looking at? I was thinking between $3-500... is that reasonable? Heck, it's been sitting there so long, he may just say to take it [/over-optimism] I'll probably pass if the engine and tranny are gone. It's still a beautiful car, but would be too much work for me. It's a beautiful thing...

Well, you're making me second guess myself here, but I'm 99.9% positive that it's a FULL FRAMED car. Meaning that it's built like a Crown Victoria... basically, it has a solid frame, and they just stick a body on top.


Ok, I just looked it up:

"The Toronado was GM's first subframe automobile, which means it was partly unitized, and used a subframe that ended at the forward end of the rear suspension leaf springs, serving as an attachment point for the springs. It carried the powertrain, front suspension and floorpan, allowing greater isolation of road and engine harshness (the design was conceptually similar to the Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac Firebird that would debut for 1967)."


Deciphering this, it's basically saying that it's really a full-framed car, with the exception to the fact that the "full frame" ends RIGHT at the rear suspension. Basically meaning that the rear bumper does not attach to the frame (from what they're explaining).

Never the less, you could basically say it's a full frame... but TECHNICALLY, it's not. Does that make sense?

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Well, you're making me second guess myself here, but I'm 99.9% positive that it's a FULL FRAMED car. Meaning that it's built like a Crown Victoria... basically, it has a solid frame, and they just stick a body on top. Ok, I just looked it up: "The Toronado was GM's first subframe automobile, which means it was partly unitized, and used a subframe that ended at the forward end of the rear suspension leaf springs, serving as an attachment point for the springs. It carried the powertrain, front suspension and floorpan, allowing greater isolation of road and engine harshness (the design was conceptually similar to the Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac Firebird that would debut for 1967)." Deciphering this, it's basically saying that it's really a full-framed car, with the exception to the fact that the "full frame" ends RIGHT at the rear suspension. Basically meaning that the rear bumper does not attach to the frame (from what they're explaining). Never the less, you could basically say it's a full frame... but TECHNICALLY, it's not. Does that make sense?

Clear as mud :P I think I got it though...

And, the hood definitely opens like a traditional car, not like our little Fiero's. I didn't think of looking down by the license plates....

Hopefully I'll be able to find out about its status today when I talk to my co-worker again, but she may not have had any luck getting in contact with her aunt. Regardless, I'll go out there again on Friday and see if I can figure out that hood. I was under a time-crunch yesterday, and could only spend 20 mins with the car.

When you go back, look through the grill and see if you can see any linkage for the hood release. If you can, then trace it.

I only thought hood release by the license plate because thats where my Buick's is, but it is a 72. However alot of people don't know where the release is. And if not in teh grill thats all I could figure. Hope you find it

I had a 73 toranado and the hood relase was dead center under the bottom of the front bumper if that helps.

There was no inside release lever.

The front CV joints are a pain, check the boots when you get the hood open.

quote Originally posted by mike-ohio: I had a 73 toranado and the hood relase was dead center under the bottom of the front bumper if that helps. There was no inside release lever. The front CV joints are a pain, check the boots when you get the hood open.

Hmm... interesting... I'll check there...

It's definitely not behind the grill though, the slots between the billets is too narrow to fit my fingers through. So, if it's not up, it must be down.

The first-gen Toronado's also had special tires made just for them by Firestone... I wonder if it still has them... if so, they're ruined unfortunately... still, would be neat.

What the heck? Contact Jay Leno and see if he has any interest? If not him, certainly try the Toronado car club and see if there are any interested people within their ranks--I'm sure they will pay top dollar for your find. But, my first thought is to keep it yourself!

Cordially,
Kevin

quote Originally posted by kevin: What the heck? Contact Jay Leno and see if he has any interest? If not him, certainly try the Toronado car club and see if there are any interested people within their ranks--I'm sure they will pay top dollar for your find. But, my first thought is to keep it yourself! Cordially, Kevin

Hah! I ain't sellin' that :P This thing is one of my favorite cars of all time... I never dreamed I'd ever be able to find one for a price I can afford... and here it is... sittin' on the side of the road for 12 years, just waiting for me to develop the skills necessary to save it.

Already found the Service Manual for it too... just waitin' to see if I can get the car before I buy the book... my co-worker is off for two days *grumbles* Will talk to her tomorrow though.

[This message has been edited by Twilight Fenrir (edited 03-25-2010).]

Finally found the lever for the hood, rather clever place for it actually. And there, beneath the hood......



Was an Oldsmobile 455....

So, not the original engine, I spoke with the father of the guy who owns the car, and he told me he rebuilt the 455 before it wound up getting parked, but he screwed up, one of the push-rods for the valves got wedged in there and got bent up. Killed the starter, so he put in a new starter, and it still wouldn't start. So, there it sits... Curiously missing its carburetor, though it does have a cloth over the intake.




He wasn't sure weather the original transmission is still in it or not.

I got around to trying to look at the underside some more, and, it's too low for me to see under it... I know on the drivers-side, half of the frame is sitting on the ground. The half I can fit my fingers under to feel seems surprisingly rust-free... but, odds are where it hits the ground is practically non-existent, correct?

Also took a look in the trunk... and I could see the ground beneath it pretty easily...

Is that a toaster in the trunk?

quote Originally posted by Bradley Jay: Is that a toaster in the trunk?

Yes... yes it is... Which, is kinda convenient, actually... I need a toaster

Ok, so where was the hood release?

quote Originally posted by mike-ohio: Ok, so where was the hood release?

Right above the license plate, had a little handle you pull straight out.

Don't wish to alarm you, but the trunk appears to contain a raccoon.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Don't wish to alarm you, but the trunk appears to contain a raccoon.

Ahhh! It's in my racoon wound!

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Don't wish to alarm you, but the trunk appears to contain a raccoon.

I noticed that... strange thing to frame.

Also, the VIN# makes it a "Deluxe" Toronado.

okay, one bump.

So, it does seem my estimate of $3-$500 is spot on... The 455 engine is still a Rocket V8, so if it's re-built properly, it should be just as reliable as the 425, correct?
I also noticed, the engine is still painted blue... which, if he did not paint it when he rebuilt it, means it HAD to have come from another Toronado, (As the only factory-blue painted rockets were placed in Toronado's) and all Toronado's that came with a 455 still had the THM-425 transmission. And, if it was from a 68-70, it may have the "GT" transmission from a W34 package. I'll check with him about weather it was painted or not later...

Would you guys still pick it up? If he has the title, I think I'm still going to get it...

Can I have that shelf?

Brad

That's not bad. I'd rather patch a trunk floor than a trunk channel surround (I've done both, the trunk floor is MUCH easier).

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: That's not bad. I'd rather patch a trunk floor than a trunk channel surround (I've done both, the trunk floor is MUCH easier).

lol, I don't think there /is/ a trunk floor to patch :P Which, should make it REALLY easy to fix... just get a square piece of metal and weld it in! Odds are, the floorboards are about in the same condition... I don't mind the work, that's really the idea, gimmie something worth-while to do.

Then why isn't it at your house yet? What you waiting for?

did u buy it yet??? i want it lol

quote Originally posted by Twilight Fenrir: lol, I don't think there /is/ a trunk floor to patch :P Which, should make it REALLY easy to fix... just get a square piece of metal and weld it in! Odds are, the floorboards are about in the same condition... I don't mind the work, that's really the idea, gimmie something worth-while to do.

Well, the good thing is that the floor pan is actually identical (or should be) between the Toronado and the Eldorado. So, you SHOULD be able to find the panel, and they're usually not that expensive. Usually like $100-150 bucks.

Try goodmark industries.

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter