Or PFF T/OT in general for that matter.
I've written a little about this here and elsewhere before, and today I discovered that Henry @ SJIHBO had written a short, concise, all inclusive essay about why people like me just don't care what the bitters think or what the FOX "news" channel squawks about anymore.
Want to talk about cars? Movies? Women? Tell jokes?
I'm there.

quote I'm pretty much done here. If you've discussed politics with me lately, you've probably heard me quote the Godfather: "they're animals anyway, so let them lose their souls." I've liked this line, for its viciousness, its complete dismissal, it's sincerity and economy ever since I first heard it, and now, I finally believe it. Let them teach intelligent design. Let them underfund their schools and turn legislatures into places of worship. Let them ban books and be ashamed and drive SUVs into the suburbs and snort oxycontin and underachieve and fear for their low-skill jobs. Let them forget how to read and get paranoid about terrorists and the Japanese and scientists and queers and let them try to vote themselves into the middle class and accept self-righteous superstition rather than improving their standard of living. They're animals anyway, so let them lose their souls. I'm quite comfortable. I have money and the liberty and independence that it implies, and I have books, a lot of nice art, a computer and a really nice television, a wife, a few friends, and frankly, the rest of these people can go fack themselves. No man's an island, to be sure, but that doesn't mean I have to throw in with these assholes. I didn't start this page to save anyone, except me -- i began to prevent myself from punching strangers, for those of you who remember. And I no longer have this punching urge, not about Bill [Oreilly]. I'm at peace, because I really, genuinely don't care about how people want to misuse their legal rights. So help yourselves. Have fun. Best of luck. Act like idiots. Get fooled. Kill each other. Worship anything you want. It's not worth the cost to me of my own concern anymore -- the stress, the anger, the time spent in discussion or consideration. So go on. Hate somebody for their race or religion. Misinterpret something. Allow yourself to be led down an erroneous line of reasoning. Ignore empirical fact. Lower taxes, and then close schools to make up for it. I've done what I can: voting, donating, talking, calling people, and it doesn't seem to help. My conscience is clean. From here on out, it's not a tragedy that needs solving, it's The Human Condition, it's man's inhumanity toward man, it's a funny little piece of theater of which I'm not a part. Check please. Long days and pleasant nights.

http://www.foxnews.com/colu...ve/0,2976,19,00.html
I'll bet that many of the other intelligent people who have disappeared from this forum lately have a similar tale to tell.
Its 79 degrees( F) outside,and the warm Florida the sun is shining.
George W Bush has retired into the obscurity he so richly deserves, Tom DeLay, Karl Rove and Dick Cheney face trial and prison (or not).
Politics is unchecked.
I'm going to go work in my tomato garden for a while.
Then maybe I'll wax my car.
Have a nice day.

------------------

Mean People Suck

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 02-11-2009).]

sorry - forward thinking has few referances
you will endlessly be thought a fool, until time proves otherwise

any idiot can stand around and say "dont change anything - I'm good"

[This message has been edited by Pyrthian (edited 02-11-2009).]

In other words, demonize your opponent, call them evil and terrible, pick up your toys and go home in a huff.

Bye.

p.s. - what was that other thread title, something about "growing a pair"?

[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 02-11-2009).]

Sorry to jump on the bandwagon, but...

Why start a thread about how you're quitting? Couldn't have just left quietly? Seems like it would have been more genuine if you had just "quit" rather then tell us all about it. Makes you seem like a child who feels to need to walk around the house telling everyone how he's not talking to them anymore...

Okay, I've spoken my peace now I'll leave you alone, man.

Good luck in your other endeavors... Glad you're not leaving PFF entirely...

- Ara

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 02-11-2009).]

I understand your disgruntledness I feel the same. At least you didn't run away entirely. People can't see eye to eye or talk here without throwing unjustified insults. Dismissing eachother for their sources instead of talking about the issues. I really doubt you can give up that easy.

No, I think others have disappeared because "their group" is now in charge and they have nothing to argue or complain about as they can do no wrong in their eyes.

Just because you don't appear to believe in anything doesn't mean you need to pick on (or quote someone who does pick on) the ones who do.

Wow this thread annoyed me more than I thought.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 02-11-2009).]

NEPTUNE, you tend to start a thread and just watch how many people you can get worked up. It didn't take long for me to figure that one out. Just why do you do it? I know your lurking

I don't get it. Is this some kind of reverse psychology trick?

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: I don't get it. Is this some kind of reverse psychology trick?

Only if you feel guilty. You are guilty you know.

Whassamatter?
Don't want to be around to watch the Anointed One crash and burn, and have to listen to all the "I told you so's"?
Hang on. It's gonna be a wild ride.

Don't let the door hit ya'...

Considering that most of your political posts are essentially "Democrats and liberal policies are good/Republicans and conservative policies are evil", I guess we won't be missing much. Perhaps if you were able to support and defend your positions without resorting to blind partisanship, you'd find political conversations more appealing.

And no, this doesn't apply only to you. There are quite a few here that share your tactics, on both sides of the partisan fence.

This is so funny, those that wanted change most and now have it want to disappear while things are changing. It's so easy to stand back cut, condemn and scream at the top of your lungs about how wrong things are when you're on the opposing side that's not in power.

OK, now your team is in charge and you want to back out. How about standing up for the team you so wanted in power, defending their actions, defending all the things they are supposedly going to change, defend the things they are trying to do. Now, your party, your choice is in power but, you want to back out of the kitchen, what's the matter, is the heat getting to ya? It hasn't even begun to warm up yet and you and so many of those wanting change are no where to be found to defend your choice.

You wanted change, you got it, now stand up and look that change in the eye, take responsibilty for what you wanted. Or, go hide in a cave while others try to keep this nation on track. Tending your garden or hiding, call it what you will. It's easy to throw those tomatoes, it's a lot harder to stand up to the tomato tossers and defend something you believe in.

If you want to quit, do so, why the squeal for attention? Or were you really just wanting to pull someone's chain again.


Ron

quote Originally posted by GT86: Considering that most of your political posts are essentially "Democrats and liberal policies are good/Republicans and conservative policies are evil", I guess we won't be missing much. Perhaps if you were able to support and defend your positions without resorting to blind partisanship, you'd find political conversations more appealing. And no, this doesn't apply only to you. There are quite a few here that share your tactics, on both sides of the partisan fence.

yup. the post just above yours being a clear example.
rather see the USA fail, than a democrat succeed

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Or PFF T/OT in general for that matter. I've written a little about this here and elsewhere before, and today I discovered that Henry @ SJIHBO had written a short, concise, all inclusive essay about why people like me just don't care what the bitters think or what the FOX "news" channel squawks about anymore. Want to talk about cars? Movies? Women? Tell jokes? I'm there. [QUOTE] I'm pretty much done here. If you've discussed politics with me lately, you've probably heard me quote the Godfather: "they're animals anyway, so let them lose their souls." I've liked this line, for its viciousness, its complete dismissal, it's sincerity and economy ever since I first heard it, and now, I finally believe it. Let them teach intelligent design. Let them underfund their schools and turn legislatures into places of worship. Let them ban books and be ashamed and drive SUVs into the suburbs and snort oxycontin and underachieve and fear for their low-skill jobs. Let them forget how to read and get paranoid about terrorists and the Japanese and scientists and queers and let them try to vote themselves into the middle class and accept self-righteous superstition rather than improving their standard of living. They're animals anyway, so let them lose their souls. I'm quite comfortable. I have money and the liberty and independence that it implies, and I have books, a lot of nice art, a computer and a really nice television, a wife, a few friends, and frankly, the rest of these people can go fack themselves. No man's an island, to be sure, but that doesn't mean I have to throw in with these assholes. I didn't start this page to save anyone, except me -- i began to prevent myself from punching strangers, for those of you who remember. And I no longer have this punching urge, not about Bill [Oreilly]. I'm at peace, because I really, genuinely don't care about how people want to misuse their legal rights. So help yourselves. Have fun. Best of luck. Act like idiots. Get fooled. Kill each other. Worship anything you want. It's not worth the cost to me of my own concern anymore -- the stress, the anger, the time spent in discussion or consideration. So go on. Hate somebody for their race or religion. Misinterpret something. Allow yourself to be led down an erroneous line of reasoning. Ignore empirical fact. Lower taxes, and then close schools to make up for it. I've done what I can: voting, donating, talking, calling people, and it doesn't seem to help. My conscience is clean. From here on out, it's not a tragedy that needs solving, it's The Human Condition, it's man's inhumanity toward man, it's a funny little piece of theater of which I'm not a part. Check please. Long days and pleasant nights.

http://www.foxnews.com/colu...ve/0,2976,19,00.html
I'll bet that many of the other intelligent people who have disappeared from this forum lately have a similar tale to tell.
Its 79 degrees( F) outside,and the warm Florida the sun is shining.
George W Bush has retired into the obscurity he so richly deserves, Tom DeLay, Karl Rove and Dick Cheney face trial and prison (or not).
Politics is unchecked.
I'm going to go work in my tomato garden for a while.
Then maybe I'll wax my car.
Have a nice day.
[/QUOTE]


You can't b!tch about Tom Delay, Bush, or the Republicans and your guys are about to screw the pooch!
http://www.answers.com/topic/screw-the-pooch

[This message has been edited by texasfiero (edited 02-11-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: yup. the post just above yours being a clear example. rather see the USA fail, than a democrat succeed

I firmly believe partisan politics are the root of most of this country's problems.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: OK, now your team is in charge and you want to back out. How about standing up for the team you so wanted in power, defending their actions, defending all the things they are supposedly going to change, defend the things they are trying to do. Now, your party, your choice is in power but, you want to back out of the kitchen, what's the matter, is the heat getting to ya? It hasn't even begun to warm up yet and you and so many of those wanting change are no where to be found to defend your choice. Ron

My thoughts as well.

quote Originally posted by texasfiero: You can't b!tch about Tom Delay, Bush, or the Republicans and your guys are about to screw the pooch!

I hate to tell anyone this but, that ain't no pooch that's about to get screwed, that's us, our kids and our grandkids. I don't care who's in charge, the direction we're headed is wrong.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-11-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: yup. the post just above yours being a clear example. rather see the USA fail, than a democrat succeed

Not to mention people who put words in other people's mouths.

I've thought that Obama was a f'up from the word "go".
He's not done anything to convince me otherwise.

I hope we do survive. In spite of him, or not.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-11-2009).]

quote Originally posted by blackrams: I hate to tell anyone this but, that ain't no pooch that's about to get screwed, that's us, our kids and our grandkids. I don't care who's in charge, the direction we're headed is wrong. Ron

I totally concur with that. Democrats have gone over the wall for socialism and most Republicans have lost the courage to stand for conservative principles, if they EVER believed in them to begin with.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: I hate to tell anyone this but, that ain't no pooch that's about to get screwed, that's us, our kids and our grandkids. I don't care who's in charge, the direction we're headed is wrong. Ron

has been for quite sometime. over 30 years. sorry it took so long for many to notice.
but, like anything else - it takes a catastrophe to get a reaction. well - here we go.

[This message has been edited by Pyrthian (edited 02-11-2009).]

quote Originally posted by GT86: Perhaps if you were able to support and defend your positions without resorting to blind partisanship, you'd find political conversations more appealing. And no, this doesn't apply only to you. There are quite a few here that share your tactics, on both sides of the partisan fence.

And that's what makes most (all?) political discussions here a complete joke.

I usually try to refrain from getting involved, because quite honestly, I don’t care enough one way or another for any political party (despite being labeled a “leftist liberal” on any number of occasions here by the usual suspects). It’s such a waste of time and energy...

I will never understand the left.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Let them teach intelligent design. Let them underfund their schools and turn legislatures into places of worship. Let them ban books Let them drive SUVs into the suburbs Let them snort oxycontin Let them underachieve Let them fear for their low-skill jobs. Let them forget how to read Let them get paranoid about terrorists Let them get paranoid about Japanese Let them get paranoid about scientists Let them get paranoid about queers let them try to vote themselves into the middle class Let them accept self-righteous superstition rather than improving their standard of living.

Wow! I can't believe people realy think this way....

I will never understand the liberal:
Why do they always talk about religion?
Why do they always talk about race?
Why do they always talk about social status?
Why do they always talk about lower educated people?
Why do they think there are 'lower class' jobs?
Why do they are better? Don't they want our contry to succeed? Don't they want to help people?

I just don't get it.

Bottom line.......politics are corrupt, always has been, always will be. From shady bribes to "you scratch my back, I'll scratch your's" crap.

You guys know that NEPTUNE is sitting back laughing at all of this, right?

quote Originally posted by kyunderdawg: Come on, fierobear.......play nice.

Hey, that WAS nice. You shoulda seen what I REALLY was thinking!!!

snicker, snicker

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Hey, that WAS nice. You shoulda seen what I REALLY was thinking!!! snicker, snicker

Well, I don't want you to leave, Neptune. But this article is just hit-and-run accusation. If you honestly, objectively think about it, which side tends to try to explain and justifies the point, and which side just throws out statements as facts, and then name calls? Really.

Look at the guy's post:


Let them teach intelligent design. OK. I don't even believe it. But the intelligent design proponents aren't trying to EXCLUDE evolution teaching. They just want to have another view point presented. But, no, that is absurd.

Underfund schools. UNDERFUND SCHOOLS??? TWELVE THOUSAND PER STUDENT spent in Milwaukee public schools.

Turn legislatures into places of worship. An over-reaction. Allowing christian phrases isn't making anyone worship or making it into a place of worship. But standing against forcing all elimination of acknowledgement of a God is "turning legislatures into places of worship."


Drive SUV's into the suburbs! How evil to not live in an urban area.

Snort oxycontin!!! What??

Underachieve?? snobbery

Forget how to read? snobbery

Paranoid about terrorists? wanting some level of protection after 9/11 is paranoia.

Erroneous line of reasoning. Definition: you don't think like I do. So you are erroneous.

Lower taxes?? WHERE IN THE U.S. did THAT happen?
I mean, the whole thing is just hit-and-run accusation. Much of it off-the-charts hyperbole. ALL of it emotionalism. NONE of it the "reasoning" that is lamented as lacking from the other side.
Neptune, I can give you MY PERSONAL experience here. I have been name-called about 99 times for every 1 time I might have slipped up and name called. There are others here who handle things differently.

When I put my viewpoint out there, it isn't so you bow before its brilliance and instantly change your mind. I give my justification. You take it for what you will. I would LOVE to hear any discussion about my view and how yours might differ and why. Even if I disagree, I get a glimpse of understanding where other people are coming from.

But, yeah, if your whole idea was eventually you would change a lot of minds, otherwise it isn't worth your time, then you came to the right conclusion.

Im gonna go out on a limb here and say that he kinda.... has a point

Now if you have seen my posts they are obviously staunchly conservative, however....

Without a formidable group of left supporters, we **technically** end up in one big circle jerk, and new ideas, defenses and spreading of knowledge effectively stop.

What has happened here is that we (as conservatives and libertarians) have effectively achieved what most have wanted (at LEAST subliminally)
Being, a strong majority, able to squelch, or at least drive off, far-left or even mid-left opponents in debate.

I came here out of chance, I stayed for the debate, and the debate used to be very good. Now things (every once and a while) get posted that a 30 second foray to snopes.com shows to be either partial or total BS.

quote Originally posted by 4-mulaGT: What has happened here is that we (as conservatives and libertarians) have effectively achieved what most have wanted (at LEAST subliminally) Being, a strong majority, able to squelch, or at least drive off, far-left or even mid-left opponents in debate.

I personally don't want to be part of a conservative circle-jerk. There are plenty of other places where I could engage in that if I wanted to. Most of the other forums I belong to either are staunchly conservative or don't allow political discussions. I've always liked T/OT because of the differing viewpoints. While it tends towards the conservative side, there are more liberal leaning types here than the other places I post.

I enjoy having my viewpoints challenged, and I also enjoy debating with those that disagree with me. It's a healthy mental exercise, not because my opinion is likely to change (although on rare occasions this has happened) but rather because I like to understand where the other person is coming from, even if I think they're wrong.

Problem is, a good debate is getting harder to find. Far too many people simply identify themselves as a Republican or Democrat, and at that point critical thinking almost stops. Anything "their" party does is OK, anything the "other" party does is wrong. They no longer form their own opinions, they simply regurgitate whatever "their" party leaders are spouting.

quote Originally posted by GT86: I personally don't want to be part of a conservative circle-jerk. There are plenty of other places where I could engage in that if I wanted to. Most of the other forums I belong to either are staunchly conservative or don't allow political discussions. I've always liked T/OT because of the differing viewpoints. While it tends towards the conservative side, there are more liberal leaning types here than the other places I post. I enjoy having my viewpoints challenged, and I also enjoy debating with those that disagree with me. It's a healthy mental exercise, not because my opinion is likely to change (although on rare occasions this has happened) but rather because I like to understand where the other person is coming from, even if I think they're wrong. Problem is, a good debate is getting harder to find. Far too many people simply identify themselves as a Republican or Democrat, and at that point critical thinking almost stops. Anything "their" party does is OK, anything the "other" party does is wrong. They no longer form their own opinions, they simply regurgitate whatever "their" party leaders are spouting.

IMHO, this is probably one of the wisest posts I have ever read here.
Nick

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 02-11-2009).]

People are as passionate about their political beliefs as they are about religion. Public discussions concerning politics are not going to pretty, especially with anonymity of the internet. It takes thick skin, but you should also pick your battles. Posting political threads calling out the 'other side' as a total dumb ass is sure to attract attention.

Unless the OP was edited before I got my nose in here, I didn't take that as he's leaving... just a bit of a rant towards some of the trivial b.s. that goes on in the o/t section... but maybe I missed something

In any event, I'm a bit surprised the majority (if not all) are in disagreement with the premise of his post...
I didn't take it as "don't change anything - I'm good"
I can't speak for Neptune, but to me the essay came off as more of a "I care, but am fed up with being unhappy over it all"
....That point of view I can relate to, and looking at the essay in that light, can appreciate it.
I don't think complete apathy should be the outlook of choice, but at some point you do have to turn around and say "do what you want, I'm tired of complaining about it, it's time to live my life for myself" ....Let a few things bounce off of you in the interest of keeping a smile on your face for the day. Whether it be a message board o/t section, work life, politics, social issues, etc etc.... sometimes fighting the good (losing) fight is just not worth the aggravation that accompanies it.

And Another!!
Nick

quote Originally posted by The MaD cOw: In any event, I'm a bit surprised the majority (if not all) are in disagreement with the premise of his post... I didn't take it as "don't change anything - I'm good" I can't speak for Neptune, but to me the essay came off as more of a "I care, but am fed up with being unhappy over it all"

Well, the quote from Henry @ SJIHBO that Neptune used, I took as less of "I care, but am fed up with being unhappy over it all" and more of "I'm right and I'm tired of you not seeing how wrong you are..." along with a bit of "You guys are meanies, I'm taking my ball and going home..." mixed in for good measure.

But then, that's just how I took it.
------------------
"The flag should be displayed with the union down, as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property."

Read my Earthship thread in Totally O/T
si vis pacem, para bellum
What part of "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" is so hard to understand?!

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 02-11-2009).]

quote Originally posted by OKflyboy: Well, the quote that Neptune used, I took as less of "I care, but am fed up with being unhappy over it all" and more of "I'm right and I'm tired of you not seeing how wrong you are..." along with a bit of "You guys are meanies, I'm taking my ball and going home..." mixed in for good measure. But then, that's just how I took it.

Lmao. well, I guess it's up to Neptune himself to clear the air on his intentions..... then again, if 30ish people have posted, and I'm the only one seeing it this way, chances are I'm wrong

Another one bites the dust? More for us.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 02-11-2009).]

Whataver our political or religious or (insert thing you deeply care about) might be, one almost universal thing we have in common --->we are FRUSTRATED with the situation we find ourselves in...

quote Originally posted by FieroRumor: Whataver our political or religious or (insert thing you deeply care about) might be, one almost universal thing we have in common --->we are FRUSTRATED with the situation we find ourselves in...

Preach it brother!! TESTIFY!!!


Brad

And all this time I thought it was simply because you GOT what you ASKED for and now can't defend Obama's disasterous policies.

Thanks for dragging the rest of us down with you.

quote Originally posted by The MaD cOw: "I care, but am fed up with being unhappy over it all" ....That point of view I can relate to, and looking at the essay in that light, can appreciate it.

Maybe that's why the lefties have been both quiet and angst-ridden? Maybe they are starting to realize their savior...isn't?