quote Originally posted by fierobear: Neptune, if you aren't religious, that's your business. Bush obviously is, and as most religious people do, he takes his religious convictions seriously. This is every bit as legitmate a reason for decision making as whatever your philosophy is, regardless of whether or not you agree with it.

Read the rest of the post. Kennedy was a devout Catholic and he understood the need to seperate his religion from his policies. Why is this such a hard concept for Dubya? I mean, he went to Yale, he must not be nearly as dumb as seems.

So having a sheepskin hanging on your wall means something?

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: I mean, he went to Yale, he must not be nearly as dumb as seems.

since the federal government is so inept and wasteful, i suggest we outsource it. ADM can run the Agriculture dept, haliburton can do Defense, let the Baptist churches handle State, and the Methodists can do the HEW. and if China or UAE submits the lowest bids, they get the job. sound like a plan?

quote Originally posted by lurker: since the federal government is so inept and wasteful, i suggest we outsource it. ADM can run the Agriculture dept, haliburton can do Defense, let the Baptist churches handle State, and the Methodists can do the HEW. and if China or UAE submits the lowest bids, they get the job. sound like a plan?

The Mofia can run the IRS, or do they already??????

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: So having a sheepskin hanging on your wall means something?

Well since they donj't just give them out, yes. I worked 5 long years serving pizza, writing spreadsheets for Coca-Cola, and getting 4 hours of sleep everynight to put myslef through one fo the toughest universites in the country.

My sheepskin was just as hard earned as any CIB. and it makes me credible in my field of study just as it does for Fastback and anyone else.

FYI, 75% of the incoming students in my freshman class never graduated. I don't know what the ratio is for Fastback's school but ANY college degree requires effort and just getting all the way through is an achievement in itself.

Todd, Comparing a Bachelor of Science to a CIB is an interesting concept.

You education clearly left you ignorant as to what a CIB is.

I know areas of Georgia can be rough and I admire your courage serving pizza under fire.

Not to mention calling in air strikes on those spreed sheets during the Pepsi-Coke Wars.

[This message has been edited by Wolfhound (edited 07-25-2006).]

Well I don't need a sheepskin to earn the ability to be a computer repair expert with over 25 years of hands on real world experience.
However, my lack of a sheepskin bars me from employment and high salary and has nothing to do with my ability to effectivly get the job done.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Well since they donj't just give them out, yes. I worked 5 long years serving pizza, writing spreadsheets for Coca-Cola, and getting 4 hours of sleep everynight to put myslef through one fo the toughest universites in the country. My sheepskin was just as hard earned as any CIB. and it makes me credible in my field of study just as it does for Fastback and anyone else. FYI, 75% of the incoming students in my freshman class never graduated. I don't know what the ratio is for Fastback's school but ANY college degree requires effort and just getting all the way through is an achievement in itself.

FYI, most people who have Computer Science degrees never get a job in the field either. I don't know the ratio either but that achievement (sheepskin) is meaningless by comparison to my 25 years of hard work, low pay and undenyable dedication to my field of endeavor... which largely goes unrecognized or respected by most employers.

Sure, I can use my experience in lieu of a sheepskin but the lack of a sheepskin means I'm religated to a lower pay scale even though my experience and expertise far exceeds that of a freshly minted sheepskin owner.

So again, how does having a sheepskin hanging on your wall mean anything?

Here you go todd, I know you wont go to the trouble to educate your self, being to busy running around with your hair on fire.

(1) There are basically three requirements for award of the CIB. The soldier must be an infantryman satisfactorily performing infantry duties, must be assigned to an infantry unit during such time as the unit is engaged in active ground combat, and must actively participate in such ground combat. Campaign or battle credit alone is not sufficient for award of the CIB.

(2) The definition or requirement to be "engaged in active ground combat" has generated much dialogue over the years as to the original intent of the CIB.

(a) The 1943 War Department Circular required infantrymen to demonstrate "satisfactory performance of duty in action against the enemy." The operative words "in action" connoted actual combat.

(b) A War Department determination in October 1944 specified that "action against the enemy" for purposes of award of the CIB was to be interpreted as "ground combat against enemy ground forces."

(c) In 1948, the regulation governing badges stipulated that "battle participation credit is not sufficient; the unit must have been in contact with the enemy." This clearly indicated that an exchange of hostile fire or equivalent personal exposure was the intent of the Army leadership.

(d) In 1963 and 1965 HQDA messages to the senior Army commander in the Southeast Asia theater of operations authorized award of the CIB to otherwise qualified personnel "provided they are personally present and under fire." U.S. Army Vietnam regulations went so far as to require documentation of the type and intensity of enemy fire encountered by the soldier. The intended requirement to be "personally present and under fire" has not changed.

It's no use, he's very dense and will refuse to see any shread of truth no matter how much varification you have.

quote Originally posted by Wolfhound: Here you go todd, I know you wont go to the trouble to educate your self, being to busy running around with your hair on fire.

So, can I trade my Associates of Arts in Criminal Justice + my Combat Action Badge for a Bachelor's Degree? If I throw in my Bronze Star can I upgrade to a Masters Degree?

[This message has been edited by aceman (edited 07-25-2006).]

According toReTodd Yeah...

Apparently his sheepskin is equal to if not greater that an infantrymans willingness to sacrefice life and limb in the line of duty so he can sit back in the comfort of the states and enjoy the compairitable lazy life of a scum sucking slug.

quote Originally posted by aceman: So, can I trade my Associates of Arts in Criminal Justice + my Combat Action Badge for a Bachelor's Degree? If I throw in my Bronze Star can I upgrade to a Masters Degree?

quote Originally posted by Wolfhound: Todd, Comparing a Bachelor of Science to a CIB is an interesting concept. You education clearly left you ignorant as to what a CIB is. I know areas of Georgia can be rough and I admire your courage serving pizza under fire. Not to mention calling in air strikes on those spreed sheets during the Pepsi-Coke Wars.

Getting a CIB requires that you can follow orders and go were you are told to go. If you want to impress me with your "willingness to risk life and limb" then show me your CMH......Hmmm, got quiet.

Getting a Sheepskin requires a brain. When you get yours you can tell me how "easy" it was compared to getting your CIB Wolfie. Now run along before you get in over your intellectual capacity to debate. This is the web, there are no mortar rounds coming in and you are out-gunned.

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 07-25-2006).]

I told you Wolfhound. He's an idiot.

Todd, Your respect for Veterans is typical of republican harpies.
Your types ability to avoid service is legendary.
Just look at the clown you serve.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: It's no use, he's very dense and will refuse to see any shread of truth no matter how much varification you have.

Oh, the irony.

Oh look! The pom pom girl is back. YAY!

quote Originally posted by fierobear:

When you grow a set, feel free to join in or just sit back and troll like the troll you have always been.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Getting a CIB requires that you can follow orders and go were you are told to go. If you want to impress me with your "willingness to risk life and limb" then show me your CMH......Hmmm, got quiet. Getting a Sheepskin requires a brain. When you get yours you can tell me how "easy" it was compared to getting your CIB Wolfie. Now run along before you get in over your intellectual capacity to debate. This is the web, there are no mortar rounds coming in and you are out-gunned.

Ummmm, I'm going to take serious offense to that.....

I may only have an AA degree and appear to be a dumb grunt, but..................

WHAT'S THAT GOT TO DO WITH ONE'S INTELLECTUAL ABILITY?????

I may not have that BA sheepskin on my wall, but I guess I can always hang the IQ Test results on the wall?!??!??! I was tested 25 years ago at a score of 185 with a genius level scale being anything over 160.


Now, Toddster, while I may agree with many of your viewpoints and politicis, you have no frikken idea about what you're talking about and YOUR intellect is grossly failing in trying to compare a military award to a frikken Bachelor's Degree!

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Oh look! The pom pom girl is back. YAY! When you grow a set, feel free to join in or just sit back and troll like the troll you have always been.

Bill, it doesn't take balls to try to debate with you. It takes a complete lack of anything better to do, and the willingness to bang oneself's head against the wall repeatedly, in deference to the pain your body is experiencing, which is supposed to be a signal that you're supposed to stop. Perhaps someday, you'll learn the difference.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Read the rest of the post. Kennedy was a devout Catholic and he understood the need to seperate his religion from his policies. Why is this such a hard concept for Dubya? I mean, he went to Yale, he must not be nearly as dumb as seems.

Kennedy was about as devout of a Catholic as John Kerry.
On the surface, these liars proclaim their Catholicism to America to get votes but under their sheep skin they are nothing more than lying politicians.

I'm not knocking Kennedy and I think he was an alright president but let's not pretend he was something that he wasn't.
Just because one sets foot in a church every Sunday....

GW, on the other hand, sticks to his moral principles, even if they are unpopular with the public.
I'm not a born-again Christian and have never quite understood that breed but I admire him for sticking to his guns.

We in the USA need to keep the preachers busy saving souls in the CHURCH.
And the research scientists busy saving lives in the LABORATORY.
Here we go "outsourcing" good jobs again, thanks to George W Bush and his henchmen.
From the Guardian:
[QUOTE] The EU is warning Washington that "disillusioned" U.S. scientists will want to make the most of Europe's more liberal rules on stem cell research.

Lord Sainsbury, Britain's science minister, said: "There are a group of American scientists who are very disillusioned. In this field we have seen U.S. scientists coming to the U.K. If the US continues to take this very negative position I think within this field of regenerative medicine we will see scientists come from America and from other parts of the world, who would have gone to America, to the UK instead." [QUOTE]
From TIME MAGAZINE:
[QUOTE] American researchers--fed up with politics getting in the way of science--are packing up and heading to Singapore, which is delighted to have them." Singapore just announced a doubling of its R&D budget, to $8.2 billion over the next five years, "making it a regional research hub, particularly in stem cells." Says a Singapore-based scientist who roams the globe recruiting researchers, "I go to the U.S., and I tell those scientists, Come to Singapore and finish your work." [QUOTE]


Links:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/genes/article/0,,1828069,00.html
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1218061,00.html

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 07-25-2006).]

Awww.. whats the matter. 84Bill wont agree with you? Aww poor fierobear... poor porr fierobear.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Bill, it doesn't take balls to try to debate with you. It takes a complete lack of anything better to do, and the willingness to bang oneself's head against the wall repeatedly, in deference to the pain your body is experiencing, which is supposed to be a signal that you're supposed to stop. Perhaps someday, you'll learn the difference.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill : Awww.. whats the matter. 84Bill wont agree with you? Aww poor fierobear... poor porr fierobear.

Oh, no. That's no problem at all. If you agreed with me, I'd immediately question my sanity. Therefore, thanks for the debate. It's always a pleasure to have you on the opposite side.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Oh, no. That's no problem at all. If you agreed with me, I'd immediately question my sanity.

Cant argue about that.

quote Therefore, thanks for the debate. It's always a pleasure to have you on the opposite side.

I'm assuming that means you enjoy the fact that I disagree with the vast majority of your convoluted bullshit.

I'm quoting FOX "news" here, because thats the only thing some members believe.
[QUOTE] Wednesday, July 26, 2006


STORIES
White House Press Secretary Tony Snow Apologizes for 'Murder' Stem Cell Comment
•
Schwarzenegger Lends $150 Million to State Studies on Embryonic Stem Cells
•
House Sustains Bush's Veto of Stem Cell Bill

BRUSSELS, Belgium — The European Union decided Monday to continue funding human embryonic stem cell research, although new rules adopted by the 25-nation bloc prevent human cloning and destroying embryos.

The funding will come from the EU's $65 billion research budget for 2007-2013, when the new rules expire.

Poland, Austria, Malta, Slovakia and Lithuania voted against the updated rules for "ethical and moral" reasons, they said. Germany and Italy backed the proposal after initially wavering.

Financing from EU funds is "subject to very tight ethical rules and procedures," Finnish Trade and Industry Minister Mauri Pekkarinen said.

During the past seven years, nine research projects into human embryonic stem cells have been financed with EU funds. The EU did not disclose the costs.

EU Science Commissioner Janez Potocnik said that throughout 2013, less than $38 million would be spent on research projects.

The EU funding will be released under conditions that include a ban on research aimed at human cloning for reproductive purposes and studies intended to modify the "genetic heritage" of human beings.

In a concession to some mostly Roman Catholic countries, EU money also will not be used to finance research activities that destroy embryos.

President Bush rejected legislation Wednesday that could have multiplied the federal money going into embryonic stem cell research, using the first veto of his presidency to block a bill he said "would have supported the taking of innocent human life in the hope of finding medical benefits for others."

Bush's veto of the stem-cell bill was sustained by the House of Representatives.

Embryonic stem cells are able to transform into all the cell types found in the body. If scientists could control those cells and coax them into becoming specific types on demand, they potentially could grow replacements for damaged tissue.

Opponents object because scientists take those cells from a 5-day-old embryo, killing it.

"The United States lags far behind Europe when it comes to stem cell research because they face so many obstacles," Stephen Minger, stem cell expert at King's College in London, said, citing a more liberal environment in Europe.


We in the USA are becoming like the charachters in a cheap novel : LEFT BEHIND.
Thanks, Dubyah.

Fourmula and the rest of you are forgeting about the young boy's and girls that we are sending over to the middle east to get their ass shot off. I am sorry but this is the reality of war. Take a real look at the dead and injured and permenently disabled youth that are either returning or not.. It will make you open your eyes and see the real truth. War = death and destruction. I sure hope it is not one of your loved ones that has to die for this political war machine bullshit.

quote Originally posted by wiley90: Fourmula and the rest of you are forgeting about the young boy's and girls that we are sending over to the middle east to get their ass shot off. I am sorry but this is the reality of war. Take a real look at the dead and injured and permenently disabled youth that are either returning or not.. It will make you open your eyes and see the real truth. War = death and destruction. I sure hope it is not one of your loved ones that has to die for this political war machine bullshit.

Oooo! Oooooo! Can I take this one???????


a) I AM one of those "boys" that was over there. Still believe in the "If not now........when?????

b) I lost my brother-in-law over there. My sister still believes in what we're doing over there is the right decision.

c) You don't think that "we" didn't already know that war=death and destruction???? I'd rather be inflicting the death and destruction than receiving it on my soil again
Ohhhhhhh.....YOU are forgetting about the 3,000+ civilians that died on September 11th.

quote Originally posted by wiley90: Fourmula and the rest of you are forgeting about the young boy's and girls that we are sending over to the middle east to get their ass shot off. I am sorry but this is the reality of war. Take a real look at the dead and injured and permenently disabled youth that are either returning or not.. It will make you open your eyes and see the real truth. War = death and destruction. I sure hope it is not one of your loved ones that has to die for this political war machine bullshit.

And this has WHAT to do with President Bush going against the majority of the American people and vetoing the bill allowing government approval/funding of embryonic stem cell research????
I'm sorry that our brave young men and women were put in harms way by this administration too, but thats a different topic for another time, isn't it?

BTW Neptune, just for the record. I disagree with vetoing the Stem Cell Research bill. I don't think he hates Americans, though. He's just sticking to his moral convictions.

quote Originally posted by aceman: BTW Neptune, just for the record. I disagree with vetoing the Stem Cell Research bill. I don't think he hates Americans, though. He's just sticking to his moral convictions.

Thank you for your civil reply. I respect that.
I would, however, as an example, offer John F Kennedys explanation (on page 2 ) of why he and all presidents, IMO. should keep his religious beliefs seperate from rational decisions involving the entire nation.
We aren't ALL born again christians, and resent being left behind the rest of the world because of his so called convictions. In this case, he is treating the majority as if we were ignorant children.
I resent that. So do most Americans.
It is not good for our nation for a leader to have that kind of "damn the facts. Damn the American people. I'm gonna do what (my) god tells me to do" attitude in the oval office.
He thinks we're stupid.
I strongly disagree.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 07-26-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Voytek: Kennedy was about as devout of a Catholic as John Kerry. On the surface, these liars proclaim their Catholicism to America to get votes but under their sheep skin they are nothing more than lying politicians. I'm not knocking Kennedy and I think he was an alright president but let's not pretend he was something that he wasn't. Just because one sets foot in a church every Sunday.... GW, on the other hand, sticks to his moral principles, even if they are unpopular with the public. I'm not a born-again Christian and have never quite understood that breed but I admire him for sticking to his guns.

I think that's just rude. Being a Catholic was a strike AGAINST Kennedy getting elected, he was the first and only Catholic ever elected even though 25% of the population is Catholic. How old are you Voytek and what personal knowledge do you have of Kennedy's religous convictions?

How devout Kennedy or Kerry are is something YOU can decide? Kerry didn't run as a Catholic who was going to install church doctrine on secular America, neither did Kennedy.

Just to bring something interesting to the table...

http://www.adherents.com/adh_presidents.html

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: I'm assuming that means you enjoy the fact that I disagree with the vast majority of your convoluted bullshit.

Nope. Nice try, though.

How about the fact that you are an ass hole with nothing better to do with you time than poke fun at others in order to make up for your own puny inadequacies and immature insecurities?

Whats the problem bear, daddy didnt hug you enough?

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Nope. Nice try, though.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: I wonder if you would react the same way if a liberal Democrat was president, and did something according to his convictions, but it was a decision that *you* disagreed with?

If his "convictions" were not based in reality and went against the will of an overwhelming majority of the people, as well as against the scientific community, you bet I will.
Just wait and see.

Each president recites the following oath, in accordance with Article II, Section I of the U.S. Constitution:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

NOWHERE is the King James version of the Christian Bible mentioned in the oath of office quoted above.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 07-27-2006).]

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: How about the fact that you are an ass hole with nothing better to do with you time than poke fun at others in order to make up for your own puny inadequacies and immature insecurities? Whats the problem bear, daddy didnt hug you enough?

How about - I don't feel inadequate enough to need to engage in an ongoing war of insults with you (or anyone else)?

Neptune, if the King James Bible didn't exist and there was no such thing as Christianity... would you still be able to tell right from wrong? Is it possible to have moral convictions not based on religion?

If you're an athiest, is it still wrong to murder someone?

My point is that while Bush professes to be a Christian, that's not the only thing that gives a person their moral views. I don't recall any mention of Stem Cell research in the Bible, or any mention of cloning or abortion, either. Maybe he just used his personal views of right and wrong rather than look it up in the "Big Book of Good and Bad for Presidents Desk Reference."

Becasue he's Christian and you're not (IIRC), it's easy to blame his religious beliefs for anything he does that you don't like. But much like abortion, the debate goes beyond just religious views.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: If his "convictions" were not based in reality and went against the will of an overwhelming majority of the people, as well as against the scientific community, you bet I would. Just wait and see. Each president recites the following oath, in accordance with Article II, Section I of the U.S. Constitution: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." NOWHERE is the King James version of the Christian Bible mentioned in the oath of office quoted above.

That wasn't an answer so much as a second round of swipes at Bush. I had hoped for a straighter answer. I should have known better.

There are many things that aren't part of the oath of office that make up people's character. I don't see "blowjob" in the oath. I don't see "purjury" there. Didn't stop another president.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: you bet I will. Just wait and see.

Hows that?

The stop replying to my post you effing retard!

quote Originally posted by fierobear: How about - I don't feel inadequate enough to need to engage in an ongoing war of insults with you (or anyone else)?