Ok I think I have a better grasp of it now. Thanks I'll be back later to stirr the pot once the smoke stops pouring from my ears. This forum is awe some!
when an object is travelling away from you the light it emits still tavels to you at the same speed.
but the frequency is reduced - so if its travelling at half the speed of light, its color frequency is cut in half
so if its travelling away from you at the speed of light, the light from it would still be coming at you at the same speed, but its frequency would be 0Hz
I have no idea what that means or what it implies. for an object to reach the speed of light is suppose to be impossible, because it would require infinte energy.
BTW someone said 60 years ago they though the sound barrier could not be broken. That is not correct. the end of a bull whip breaks the sound barrier, thats why it cracks. And we have had supersonic bullets for more than 60 years.
what they thought was they would never be able to achieve the thrust to weight ratio to attain supersonic flight of a manned aircraft, and that once it went supersonic it might be impossible to control it, it would become unstable, and it would tear itself apart. Many of the attempt before Chuck Yeager did exactly that.
IP: Logged
11:37 AM
Fiero5 Member
Posts: 8882 From: Arecibo, PR Registered: Jun 2000
OK, let's see... Light is the thread that weaves together space and time. Since light generally travels in straight lines, curved space would allow for larger possibilities. If we think in this frame of thought (and we have new evidence thanks to current technology like the Hubble telescope to back up this), linear thinking is shattered and long distance space travel is more possible in shorter lengths of time with curved space than in linear space thinking. That is what warp propulsion is strongly based on, no matter how weak the technology itself is. It is true that light travel is the basis for warp travel capabilities, but only if we think in terms of the bending of space. If we agree on the big bang theory, then we agree that there was a center, and it is expanding out from a single point. Quantum mechanics does allow for the bending of space, hence the bending of light. Since this is physically possible, then warp travel is possible, though possibly not feasable in the near future with our current technical capabilities. A physicist in Whales, Miguel Alcubierre, explored the ability of consistant general relativity in referance to "warp travel". He was able to demonstrate that it is possible to tailor a spacetime configuration where a spaceship could travel between two points in an arbitrarily short time. In addition, the spaceship could be moving with respect to it's local surroundings at speeds much less than the speed of light. This is great because we now have the possibility to travel long distances in shorter amounts of time, without having to figure out how to do that in reference to traveling faster than the speed of light. This is also significant because the clocks on the spacehip would stay syncronized to those clocks at the starting point of travel and at the ending point of travel.
Warp travel, though greatly exagerated on Star Trek, is quite possible. The technology we now pocess, though we do not have the current ability to create it, does gives us the ability to design it in concept and based on reality. This idea is very straight forward. If spacetime can be locally warped so that it expands behind the spaceship, this would cause it to then contract in front of it. The ship would be propelled along with the space within it. To help some understand this idea better, this is the same physical laws that allows a surfboard to travel on a wave. The ship would never travel faster locally than the speed of light, as that portion of light would also be carried along with the expanding wave of space.
Yups, warp travel is in theory possible. You would have to curve spacetime in such a way that you travel trough a "long" part of space which is shortened and this way you can travel below the speed of light, but still cross a large distance.
About the different Hz of light. A photon goes through the whole spectrum of colors (infrared to ultraviolet) but beyond that there are other wave forms, like radio signals (long waves) or on the other side, gamma radiation (short waves).
IP: Logged
01:07 PM
Cliff Pennock Administrator
Posts: 11609 From: Zandvoort, The Netherlands Registered: Jan 99
Which reminds me, the way to travel large distances is by creating anti-space which will effectively cancel out space. Bending space is much to inefficient.
Ok if've fanned away the smoke. Here are some thoughts on sound and light. and some interesting definitions. pay no mind to it if your not interested. I must say I'm enthralled THANKS KEN!!
Why is it that the further away we are from a light source the dimmer it gets? if light is traveling at a constant it should remain equally bright no matter the distance from it. Something must be causing light to "slow" and or dissipate. Must be mater because it ain't chemical X
a wave energy (sound or light) can be measured with time, know as a frequency. Time being the constant that can't change? or is it just that it can't change because me make it a rigid constant standard?
Sound is a form of wave energy traveling through air. Sound can be heard to change in pitch retaliative to it's speed and position to you know a Doppler shift. Sound dissipates because air is viscous and takes energy and "wears" it down over distance. Sound can penetrate dense objects but it cant get beyond "mater" the less dense the "mater" is the less sound waves can travel through it.
Light is an energy wave too, it can be measured the same as sound retaliative to you by a shift in it's "red" known as "red shift" so what is the substance it is traveling through to get to me? Chemical X? mater? hummm, mater can stop light depending on the maters density. If light is bright enough it can be seen through paper. so light must somehow be effecting the paper.
Different "wavelengths" can travel at different speeds and distances depending on the wave's intensity. We can hear sounds from great distances using amplification just the same as light using mirrors and lenses to amplify it.
Engine noise can still be heard from a supersonic plane after is has passed even at 2x the speed of sound. just like light can be seen from a light emitting object traveling away at light speed. the rules of energy are the same no matter what energy we are talking about, sound or light.
Using sound energy we can cause mater to vibrate enough to cause heat enough heat and it will start to emit light. Using light we can heat mater enough to cause sound energy.
Lets look at time for a second (no pun) time is a dimension (measurement) that enables two identical events occurring at the same point in space to be distinguished, measured by the interval between the events
Lets look at space, it's a three-dimensional expanse where matter exists: the unbounded three-dimensional expanse in which all matter exists.
lets look at light it is form of energy visible to the human eye that is radiated by moving charged particles.
How about energy? Energy is capacity of matter to perform work as the result of its motion or its position in relation to forces acting on it.
Gravitation, is the force of attraction between all objects that tends to pull them toward one another. Gravitation is by far the weakest of these forces and, as a result, is not important in the interactions of atoms and nuclear particles or even of moderate-sized objects, while nuclear forces operate only over extremely short distances and decrease in strength very rapidly as distance increases. Second, gravitation is always attractive
Light is mater because it is an energy or a particle that travels through mater bumps into other particles and sends them on their way, it can be measured as an event in time. Light being a "charged particle" and particles are mater and mater has gravity even though it is infinitesimal and beyond our ability to measure it may not be as afected by gravity as other objects however light can't escape high gravitational forces like those of a black hole where the forces are 10,000 billian times that of our sun
I just want to say that if you remove mater you remove sound and light or at least the ability for these energies exist and to be measured with respect to time. there are places in the universe where particles are escaping from black holes at slightly less than the speed of light yet light cant escape it. Search Light
Time can not be measured since time IS a measure so you cant "bend" time or warp time otherwise you change the standard measure making it different. The reason time is bent is because we need to change the way we measure something.
Ok I'm fried
fixed a few typeos
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 10-20-2001).]
I like pizza and slinkys, my best subject in highschool was physics. Heres a question to ponder.
As you know water is denser then air, therefor soundwaves travel faster in water then in air. Thats why whales can comunicate ove very long distances. But what happens when you brake the sound barrier in water?
IP: Logged
06:52 PM
PFF
System Bot
Spektrum-87GT Member
Posts: 1601 From: Yorktown, VA Registered: Aug 2001
Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: there is also good evidence that the speed of light is slowing down at an exponetial rate - at the time of the big bang it was much faster.
something to do with the density of matter in the universe - as the universe expands out the speed of light gets slower.
the interesting part of this is einstiens equation: energy contained in matter = it mass times the speed of light squared (e=mc^2).
so if c keeps slowing down, then the energy in the universe keeps reducing too - and eventually the matter will all be dispersed and will contain no energy.
i believe they call that 'heat death'. when there is no more energy left in the universe.
i dont want to get into a religous debate, but what exactly caused the big bang? i mean, where did it come from? it all had to start somewhere... i doubt nitrogen or whatever caused it just appeared out of nowhere. I will not accept the big bang until this has been explained in FULL detail.
IP: Logged
07:25 PM
GTFiero1 Member
Posts: 6508 From: Camden County NJ Registered: Sep 2001
Originally posted by Spektrum-87GT: i dont want to get into a religous debate, but what exactly caused the big bang? i mean, where did it come from? it all had to start somewhere... i doubt nitrogen or whatever caused it just appeared out of nowhere. I will not accept the big bang until this has been explained in FULL detail.
ever hear of the greek view of the world ON THE BACK OF A TURTLE STAND 4 ELEPHANTS THAT SUPORTS THE WORLD. WHAT EVER WE THINK WILL SEEM THAT FUNNIE IN 1000 years time. FULL DETAILS ARE YET TO BE KNOWN but hawkings thinks it just happened a random event with no why to it[like shiitt happens on a cosimic scale] membrane theory a new branch of string theory is about makeing the real world fit the math but talks of 11 to 14 extra demensions rolled up and hidden inside normal space and new twist to big bang is a rolled up demension can un roll and vibrate and start the bang. we may never realy know why or how but the proof of a bang is all over in the background hiss of its ecckko. two guys from bell labs got a nobel prize for the finding of the hiss in 63 without looking for it.they want to be sure that the hiss was not in their equipment and proved it was from outer space not a bug in the wires.
Hmm, background hiss means a lot these days I guess. Kind of like the Beatles telling Manson to kill those people with the hidden messages in their music. But I heard a while back that someone sent Manson a new CD of remastered Beatles music and after listening to it, he said "I guess they were not really talking to me after all, must have been a busted speaker or something"
Yes, that is stupid, but Ray said: "WHAT EVER WE THINK WILL SEEM THAT FUNNIE IN 1000 years time. we may never realy know why or how but the proof of a bang is all over in the background hiss of its ecckko. two guys from bell labs got a nobel prize for the finding of the hiss in 63 without looking for it.they want to be sure that the hiss was not in their equipment and proved it was from outer space not a bug in the wires."
no records involved they were listening to a hiss that is the cooled remaines of the big bang in real time and it has been mapped in all directions to very great detail by many diffrent radio teliscopes over many years. facts not fancy. nobel prize is not given for BS only for hard facts after a very long check out by many top people world wide. want to hurt your brains QUANTUM THEORY states that PARTICALS CAN POP IN AND OUT OF EMPTY SPACE AND DO ALL THE TIME. and the rate of speed that the galaxies move is speeding up all the time but no known force can do that.
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd
IP: Logged
01:04 AM
GarethWright Member
Posts: 400 From: Broken Arrow, Ok, USA Registered: Oct 2000
Redshift and Blueshift are actually caused by the Doppler effect, but its not actually the Light itself that changes red (thats why nearly all stars look white) A spectrograpic analysis of a star will show the spectrum of light emanating from the star, you can tell what the star is made of by bars of missing color (emission lines)in the "absorption" spectrum.
When a star is moving away from us, the black bands move slightly towards the red end of the spectrum (redshift) and when the star is coming toward you, the bars move toward the blue end of the spectrum (blueshift).
The speed of light is Not constant, is has been proven that light slows down somewhat when it passes through glass and other transparent/translucent materials.
I was thinking of making my Licence plate say "Redshift" or some 7 letter equivalent, but it would take too much explaining every time someone asked what it means
[This message has been edited by GarethWright (edited 10-21-2001).]
IP: Logged
04:05 AM
fierohoho Member
Posts: 3494 From: Corner of No and Where Registered: Apr 2001
I finished my peanut butter sandwich, cat hair and all.
If my fiero is red and is moving towards you at the speed of light that would mean it is now blue shifted, sooooooo, I will then have a Blue '84 and I will sell it to the highest bidder.
Several times I have seen my wifes hand turn blue prior to it hitting me due to a "wind break" shall we say.
As my head goes away from her hand my face is now redshifted.
If you travel at the speed of light relative to the surounding universe how do you know you are at the speed of light?
Isn't it possible that you have just stopped and the universe is now travling away from you at the speed of light?
Why did I look into this post in the first place?
Who took my jelly?
What manner of God would allow an ex-wrestler to become Govergnor of Minnesota?
Why is the thing on the bottom of a horses foot called a "Frog"?
I have too many questions, so tired, darn 10 hour night shifts.
10 minutes to go, goodnight. HoHo
[This message has been edited by fierohoho (edited 10-21-2001).]
It was a joke Ray, I hope you took it as such. Last night there was "snow" on the TV instead of my usual professional wrastling (intentionally mispelled). Since I concluded that my sat. dish was picking up prehistoric weather forcasts predicting the ultimate demise of the dinosaurs, I am entitled to a Nobel Prize right? I mean that snow proves it doesn't it?
Hihi, well it's great to see so many people interested in this subject I wish I could explain everything here, but I suggest A Brief History of Time by Hawking for the initial stuff. One thing I can tell you, which might help you a bit in understanding space and time, is this:
According to Einstein, everything always travels through space at lightspeed. If your Fiero stands still it uses all that energy to travel through the time-dimension. Now you drive on the highway with your Fiero V8 at 140mph. Your Fiero consumes energy to be able to move through a space dimension. This energy is taken away from the energy used to travel through the time dimension. As the speed of light is constant, you therefor lose speed in the time-dimension -> time slows down.
I was just able to combine Fiero's and astronomy in one post. Man this forum rules
In quantum mechanics it's even possible that a Fiero appears out of nothing... Remote, but possible.
If you locked yourself out of your Fiero, if you just bump into your Fiero long enough, than there is according to quantum mechanics a possibility you might end up in the Fiero. Have patience though, it could take a couple of million years
Ain't astronomy great
IP: Logged
11:50 AM
PFF
System Bot
AusFiero Member
Posts: 11513 From: Dapto NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2001
Hmmm so it is quite feasible to make my Fiero go 200MPH by just dropping it out of a plane at 19,000 feet. So why do we bother spending so much on engine mods to make our Fieros go faster? That sucks.
hehe, well the earth doesn't suck me as much as it sucks some of you, lol, I can still dunk a basketball There aren't many things stranger than a freak wearing his black makeup on a basketball court dunking away, lol.
Now on the topic. How do some of you people feel on the idea of a "4th dimension" a place that transcends space and time. With this idea you could be on the other side of the universe in no time at all. Something like a wormhole maybe, or the mystery of the Bermuda Triangle. Does it exsist? Doesn't it? I've always been interested in things like this.
------------------
IP: Logged
09:26 PM
artherd Member
Posts: 4159 From: Petaluma, CA. USA Registered: Apr 2001
Originally posted by AkursedX: How do some of you people feel on the idea of a "4th dimension" a place that transcends space and time. With this idea you could be on the other side of the universe in no time at all. Something like a wormhole maybe, or the mystery of the Bermuda Triangle. Does it exsist?
Oh heck yeah, come on over for a drink 'sometime'
Best! Ben.
------------------ Ben Cannon 88 Formula, T-top Metalic Red 88 Formula, Silver 87 Coupe, Metalic Red "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives" -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"
Originally posted by AkursedX: hehe, well the earth doesn't suck me as much as it sucks some of you, lol, I can still dunk a basketball There aren't many things stranger than a freak wearing his black makeup on a basketball court dunking away, lol.
Actually the earth sucks everything equally. But people suck too and some people can't dunk because they suck more than the people who can.
quote
Now on the topic. How do some of you people feel on the idea of a "4th dimension" a place that transcends space and time. With this idea you could be on the other side of the universe in no time at all. Something like a wormhole maybe, or the mystery of the Bermuda Triangle. Does it exsist? Doesn't it? I've always been interested in things like this.
Actually I believe that there are an infinite number of dimensions, one for every possibility, and that life is made up of how everything drifts through those dimensions.
[This message has been edited by Pontiaddict (edited 10-22-2001).]
Originally posted by AkursedX: Now on the topic. How do some of you people feel on the idea of a "4th dimension" a place that transcends space and time. With this idea you could be on the other side of the universe in no time at all. Something like a wormhole maybe, or the mystery of the Bermuda Triangle. Does it exsist? Doesn't it? I've always been interested in things like this.
Hehe, time is the 4th dimension. And according to superstring theory there are at least 11 if not I believe 26 dimensions, curled up so you can't see them. Other than that, I don't know about dimensions that transcend space and time. That's a bit too mystical for me
About the Bermuda triangle, I've heard a plausible explanation for it, that had something to do with the water there. Don't remember what it was though. Maybe someone else knows.
IP: Logged
09:14 AM
AkursedX Member
Posts: 2890 From: Lackawanna NY Registered: Aug 2000
Originally posted by Screwie: Hehe, time is the 4th dimension.
Oh yeah, I forgot about time already being the 4th dimension, stupid me. But I still wonder about there being other dimensions, it's the only way that I think alien life (if it has ever happened, I have no opinion on it) would be able to come in contact with our planet, it would of had to been some sort of extra dimensional travel. We could probably start a whole other topic with that one, lol
IP: Logged
10:30 AM
Fiero5 Member
Posts: 8882 From: Arecibo, PR Registered: Jun 2000
I think someone asked what is the speed of light? The mathmatical answer is that the speed of light is 299,792,458 m/s. m/s equals meters per second - that is equal to 186287.490 miles per second .
I think it was also asked here about how the speed of light changes in things like air and water. Light is slowed down in transparent media like air, water and even glass. Though in space, glass has no meaning, and even air and water may not come into play. Hmmm. The ratio by which it is slowed is called the refractive index of the medium and is always greater than one. This was discovered by Jean Foucault in 1850. When we talk about the speed of light, it is usually in reference to the speed of light in a vacuum. That way it is measurable without any worry of it being effected by anything. This quantity is also referred to as c. No, that is not in reference to your Hard Drive or a C compiler program
At a 1983 Conference Generale des Poids et Mesures, the following Systeme International (SI) definition of the meter was adopted. You are gonna love how they came up with the meter as a standard of measurement
The meter is the length of the path travelled by light in a vacuum during a time interval of 1/299 792 458 of a second. This defines the speed of light in a vacuum to be exactly 299,792,458 m/s. This provides a very basic answer to the question "Is c constant". C is constant by it's own definition. The SI is based on definitions that were adopted according to the most accurate known measurement techniques of that time and are always being updated. At the moment you can measure macroscopic distances most accurately by sending out laser light pulses and timing how long they take to travel using a very accurate atomic clock. The best atomic clocks are accurate to about one part in 10^13. It makes sense then to define the meter unit in such a way as to minimise errors in a measurement. The SI definition makes certain assumptions about the laws of physics. As an example, they assume that the particle of light, the photon in physics talk, is massless. If the photon had a small rest mass (not moving), the SI definition of the meter would become meaningless because the speed of light would change as a function of its wavelength. They could not just define it to be constant. They would have to fix the definition of the meter by stating which color of light was being used. Experiments have shown that the mass of the photon must be very small if it is not zero. It is certainly too small to have any practical significance for the definition of the meter in the foreseeable future, but it cannot be shown to be exactly zero even though currently accepted theories indicate that it is. If it wasn't zero, the speed of light would not be constant but from a theoretical point of view we would then take c to be the upper limit of the speed of light in a vacuum so that we can continue to ask if c is constant. Previously the meter and a second of time have been defined in various different ways according to the measurement techniques of the time. They figured back then that they could come up with something, and then we could change it again in the future. That was a brilliant assumption. If we look back to 1939, the second was defined as 1/84,600 of a mean solar day, and the meter as the distance between (get this!) two scratches on a bar of platinum-iridium alloy held in France of all things. Great way of coming up with a standard of measuring. Oh well, you gotta start somewhere I guess. But still!! Anyway, it is now known that there are variations in the length of a mean solar day as measured by our atomic clocks. Standard time is adjusted by adding or subtracting a leap second from time to time. I wonder who is in charge of making that decision? There is also an overall slowing down of the Earth's rotation by about 1/100,000 of a second per year due to tidal forces between the Earth, Sun and our Moon. I wonder how many years before we will notice the yearly slow down? That would make a great sci-fi story! There may have been even larger variations in the length or the meter standard caused by metal shrinkage. The final result is that the value of the speed of light as measured in m/s standard was slowly changing at that time. Obviously it would be more natural to attribute those changes to variations in the units of measurement than to changes in the speed of light itself. But I guess if you make up your standards, you have to live by them LOL
the thing about warp drive that bothers me is, ok we are gonna travel by warping space, then the thing we are travelling to is closer.
so instead of walking all the way across the room I tie a rope to the other wall, and bend my house into a horseshoe shape, then I only have to walk a few feet to get to the other wall.
1. This is suppose to be easier?! 2. In which direction do we warp space?! X, Y or Z - cause inspite of all the theorys, those are the only 3 physical dimensions we know really exist.
theories that want to unify all the forces in the universe require 10 physical dimensions, for the theories to work they must be there.
but maybe the theories are wrong. They cop out by saying the other 7 missing dimensions are curled up on a subatomic scale, so we cant see them.
ok, if they are that small, how do we bend space so that alpha Centauri is only 0.01 light years away, instead of 4?
3. once you have warped space, does its stay warped?! does it spring back when you let it go?!
4. If you warp space so that alpha Centauri is now only ten feet away from the surface of the earth, wont gravity take over and pull the two planets together?! are then not now only 10 feet apart physically?!
and if they are not 10 feet apart physically, then what good does it do me? How do I get to the other planet if it is close in some other dimension that I cannot perceive?!
I think its approraiate that we connontate the three dimensions as X Y and Z! You know why? What would we call the next physical dimension?! What comes after Z?! Z+ ?! Then Z++ ?!!!!
Im sorry but I think the idea of warp drive is a hoax on us all. Its like the marathon runner who cheats, goes down a side street and only runs 3 miles to the finish line instead of 25 like everyone else.
If I need to go from NYC to LA in 1 hour then I dont think warping the surface of the earth so that LA is only 3 miles from NYC is the logical answer
if I had that much power and energy at my disposal I wouldnt need to go to LA.
Hey, Some of yall finally come across the Idea I believe, that Time (not as a unit of measure) IS the fourth dimension.
Many things can happen at once but many things cannot happen at one time and place unless undesireable results occur.
Simply put I can run straight across the field. I can build a structure in the middle of the field. Common sense says if I build the structure in the middle of the field before I try to run straight across the field I'm gonna run into something before I reach the other side. Conclusion These things can only be done together with desired results if done in the proper sequence.
Damn me! I should have built that building out of something other than brick. Guess I Buttered the bricks.
Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: the thing about warp drive that bothers me is, ok we are gonna travel by warping space, then the thing we are travelling to is closer.
so instead of walking all the way across the room I tie a rope to the other wall, and bend my house into a horseshoe shape, then I only have to walk a few feet to get to the other wall.
1. This is suppose to be easier?! 2. In which direction do we warp space?! X, Y or Z - cause inspite of all the theorys, those are the only 3 physical dimensions we know really exist.
theories that want to unify all the forces in the universe require 10 physical dimensions, for the theories to work they must be there.
but maybe the theories are wrong. They cop out by saying the other 7 missing dimensions are curled up on a subatomic scale, so we cant see them.
ok, if they are that small, how do we bend space so that alpha Centauri is only 0.01 light years away, instead of 4?
3. once you have warped space, does its stay warped?! does it spring back when you let it go?!
4. If you warp space so that alpha Centauri is now only ten feet away from the surface of the earth, wont gravity take over and pull the two planets together?! are then not now only 10 feet apart physically?!
and if they are not 10 feet apart physically, then what good does it do me? How do I get to the other planet if it is close in some other dimension that I cannot perceive?!
I think its approraiate that we connontate the three dimensions as X Y and Z! You know why? What would we call the next physical dimension?! What comes after Z?! Z+ ?! Then Z++ ?!!!!
Im sorry but I think the idea of warp drive is a hoax on us all. Its like the marathon runner who cheats, goes down a side street and only runs 3 miles to the finish line instead of 25 like everyone else.
If I need to go from NYC to LA in 1 hour then I dont think warping the surface of the earth so that LA is only 3 miles from NYC is the logical answer
if I had that much power and energy at my disposal I wouldnt need to go to LA.
1) in theory yes, because otherwise it would be impossible for you to reach the other side within your lifetime. (you can't go faster than the speed of light) 2)well actually, the "small dimensions" do make sense, as strings can go through them and thus vibrate in a certain way and that's why particles have certain features. These small dimesnions are too small to travel through though (unless you're around the planck lenght and by the way, not x y or z, but spacetime is warped. 3)I'm not familiar with all the mechanics behind warp travel, but, as I understand it, it's basically a "bubble" in which you travel. 4)The distance itself idoes not change. The spaceship would go there "incrementally", shortening spacetime in front of it and lengthening it behind it.
Phew, difficult questions by the way, definitely testing my knowledge here Anyway, I'm just learning myself as well
IP: Logged
01:58 PM
PFF
System Bot
FieroMaster88 Member
Posts: 7680 From: Mattawan, MI Registered: Nov 2000
So lets say I slow spacetime around me (a bubble) then I should be able to move at or beyond the speed of light, since I'm not effected by the spacetime that I (in the bubble) travel through.
no Im sorrry but I stand by this - if you are going to warp space/time, then in which direction are you warping (bending) it in?!
and if time is the fourth dimension how is it at right angles to the other three?!
time does not fit the requirements to be a direction. If I stand in an XYZ space I can move in the X direction without moving in the Y or Z direction. Which way do I turn so I can move in the X direction without moving through time?!
time is not a physical dimension.
BTW someone mentinoed they dont understand how the big bang happened.
its simple. Before the big bang there was no matter, there was no energy, and there was no time (time did not exist before the big bang)
also there was no space either.
there was nothing.
then it exploded!
I cant really say when it exploded, cause there was no time before it exploded, so I dont know how it could go from not exploded to exploded, since time didnt exist
but at some point in non-time and non-space, nothing exploded.
what part of this is so confusing?!
:c)
IP: Logged
05:55 PM
Fiero5 Member
Posts: 8882 From: Arecibo, PR Registered: Jun 2000
Ken, I think you might be getting two different theory's mixed up. The one that I am discussing is the one where you don't "warp" space to bring something closer to allow ships to travel long distances in shorter time frames. What I was discussing is where you create a warp bubble "around" the ship, that causes space to act like a wave which can propell your ship thru space at light speeds.
This is a recently published science news release that you may find very interesting:
>>>>>>>>>> 3:00 a.m. June 11, 1999 PDT Star Trek fans longing to travel at warp factor 9, take heart: New research indicates that travel faster than the speed of light is theoretically possible.
Physicist Chris Van Den Broeck, of the Catholic University in Leuven, Belgium, has come up with a startling new idea for warp drive that would allow starships to travel at tremendous speeds through space, safely cushioned within a warp bubble.
T E C H N O L O G Y Today's Headlines Released at - 2:17 p.m. June 10, 1999 PDT
"I started thinking, 'How do you fit a spaceship inside something very small?' said Den Broeck. "It only took an hour or so to work out the details. But I thought it would never work, so I left it in my drawer for a few months."
A few weeks ago, he resurrected the idea and quickly found a way to work out major theoretical obstacles to warp-speed travel. His findings have been widely approved by many in the Physics community.
Van Den Broeck began by improving upon calculations made by Mexican physicist Miguel Alcubierre, who startled the physics world five years ago with his assertion that warp-speed travel was not just the stuff of sci-fi movies and TV.
Alcubierre proposed a warp bubble, a little region where a vessel could rest. The space contracts in front of the ship and expands behind it, allowing the bubble to warp space and surf through a wave of space-time.
Many physicists were dubious.
"There are very strong constraints on a bubble," said Larry Ford, a professor of physics at Tufts University who took serious interest in the theory in 1997. "It needs to be very thin and it requires an enormous amount of negative mass, larger than the order of the observable universe."
"The Alcubierre solution could require the energy of 1 billion galaxies," Ford said. "It would be an unrealistically large amount of negative mass."
But a few weeks ago, Van Den Broeck forged a new path around Ford's findings. He came up with an alternative to Alcubierre's solution that would only require 1 gram of negative mass to travel at warp speed, quite a bit smaller than the originally thought billion galaxies.
"I considered a microscopically small warp bubble that doesn't need as much energy," he said. "But the problem is, you can't fit a spacecraft inside such a small bubble."
Van Den Broeck's solution was to blow up the volume, or the inside of the warp bubble, while maintaining the microscopic size of the bubble's exterior.
"You have a bubble smaller than the nucleus of an atom, but the diameter can be two hundred meters," he said. Better still, the increase in the volume of the bubble didn't require much energy. "That was the big surprise."
The results of Van Den Broeck's work, which will no doubt inflame the passions of warp-loving Trekkies, are posted on the Los Alamos National Laboratories Web site.
While Alcubierre's bubble was spherical, Van Den Broeck envisioned a bottle-shaped bubble with a large interior and an extremely narrow mass. In other words, the bubble's inside could be large enough to fit a starship, but the mouth, where the negative energy would be located, would be microscopic.
The idea is interesting, Ford said.
"The problem is, it's unclear how to get the ship into it, like a model ship in a glass bottle." he said. "Nobody knows if it's possible to open the mouth up without expending huge amounts of negative energy. There are still significant barriers to creating it."
Van Den Broeck agrees. Though his warp bubble could run on less than a gram of negative energy, it is still physically impossible to generate that much today. And there are other issues, the most important being that we do not have the technical ability to do any of this yet."
That maybe true, but how long ago was it when it was said that man would never reach the moon? >>>>>>>>>>>
Kinda cool huh
Steve
IP: Logged
08:38 PM
Oct 23rd, 2001
onfire Member
Posts: 1560 From: Maple Valley, WA Registered: Oct 2000
onfire: faster than the speed of light... That means that Einstein's relativity theory breaks down, he was wrong! Anyway, I'd say, as the speed of light is constant, you'd still be able to see normally. UNLESS.... you go that fast, and go back in time and turn off the light!
sorry but I still think this warp drive/speed idea is what happens when someone who DOENST have HADD gets his hands on a bottle of Ritalin.
warping space is like taking a paper clip that is straightened out, and instead of travelling the lenght of the wire, you bend it into a U shape so the ends are almost touching
then to travel from one end to the other, instead of going the whole lenght of the wire you jump sideways to the other end.
this is what 'warping space' is all about
not compressing space or matter, bending it
so my question still remains unanswered, in which XYZ direction do we warp space, and all the matter it contains?
and if we warp it in some other dimension, how do we then turn at a right angle into the other dimension and travel through it?!
warping space only a little bit at a time doesnt solve the problem. If I bend the paper clip into a U shape at one end, and jump across that small U, then keep moving the bend down the length of the paper clip as a wave, and keep jumping, then it sounds like "this is easier cause Im only warping a little bit of space at a time"
but the fundemental problems I posted here are still a problem, warping a large amount or a little, in which direction do you warp it?!
and the idea that we are compressing space in the direction we want to travel - we cant do that. Why not simply expand ourselves. If I want to go from NYC to LA I can either compress the USA down to where its only 3 feet wide, and then take one step and Im in LA
or I can expand myself so I am 7,000 miles tall, then take one step and I am 3,000 miles away, then make myself small again.
Its absurd, its all absurd. This is not expanding technology to a new level. Rockets have existed for thousands of years in china, we got to the moon by advancing know technologies and using well established physics.
Instead of warp drive I have a better solution. If I want to travel to a star 100 light years away, I simple cause the universe to cease to exist. Then I recreate it exactly as it was, except that the star is here.
Bingo, I can travel 100 light years in 2 seconds.
Now all I have to do is work out the implementaion details on the creation/uncreation system.
There is no xyz stuff. You can only warp spacetime! Spacetime is warped because of gravity, for example. The sun bends spacetime, not one dimension, spacetime!
spacetime IS XYZ+T - the combinination of physical space and time
einstiens theory is that the sun bends spacetime around it so that light apears to be deflected towards it - as if the gravity of the sun is pulling on the light
and they always show this by saying its like the sun and planets are resting on a bed sheet and they sink down into it and change its shape - then as light passes near the sun it hits this depression in 'spacetime' and is curved.
problem is, they depict spacetime as a two dimensional space, then they use the idea of gravity to show how the sun is pulled into it, and this explains what gravity is.
but if mass bends spacetime like a bowling ball bends a bedsheet, then I still have to ask: Bends it in what dimension?!
and if a mass like the sun bends or distorts spacetime, then what happens when there is not mass around. If you are a bizillion light years from the nearest mass, then what does spacetime look like then? What is its natural shape?! Does it exist there at all?!
or is space physically bend by mass? if you hold a fishing pole next to a black hole will it look likes its bent, even if its not bent? like it does when you stick it into water and the light rays are bent by the surface?
when you pull it away from the black hole will it be straight again?
if so then space around the black hole is physically compressed, or warped so that in some absolute frame of reference 1 foot of distance when you are near the black hole is equal to 2 feet of distance when you are away from the black hole.
and if that is the case - if warp drive works by compressing space around me, like compressing the USA so its only 3 feet wide
then its still absurd.
If I can take some super condensed mass that condenses space around it, and create a warp bubble, then do you realize how much energy it will take to push that amount of matter forwards and get it moving.
We might as well imagine we are God.
Maybe the physics of the universe are like this for a reason. maybe mankind should just stay home.
There aren't many things stranger than a freak wearing his black makeup on a basketball court dunking away, lol.
