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planes flew into the world trad center!!! by firstfiero
Started on: 09-11-2001 09:11 AM
Replies: 321
Last post by: Mach10 on 09-16-2001 06:09 PM
Haze_Performance
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Report this Post09-12-2001 02:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Haze_PerformanceSend a Private Message to Haze_PerformanceDirect Link to This Post
UNCONFIRMED: Reported on channel 32 (Fox)... A truck was stopped in Washington. It contained explosives. It was also reported on CNN.

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JohnnyK
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Report this Post09-12-2001 02:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnnyKClick Here to Email JohnnyKSend a Private Message to JohnnyKDirect Link to This Post
Some of you guys sicken me. I didn't know you people were so racist (althought I should have assumed with the rice comments). There are some comments that are disguting Punish the whole country, not just the terrorists? I HOPE that bush isn't as stupid to jump to conclusions as some of you. It is the worst act of terrorism to ever happen, and I feel bad for the 10000 (or so estimated?) deaths, but killing 10000 other innocent people in afghanistan isn't any better. I hope those responsible are punished. Not the innocent people around them.

[This message has been edited by JohnnyK (edited 09-12-2001).]

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Report this Post09-12-2001 02:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for UrchinClick Here to Email UrchinSend a Private Message to UrchinDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Haze_Performance:
UNCONFIRMED: Reported on channel 32 (Fox)... A truck was stopped in Washington. It contained explosives. It was also reported on CNN.



Ya, well now they are denying there were any explosives on board but have the men from the van held for questioning, but won't say why. Figure that one out...

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Report this Post09-12-2001 02:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Black88GTSend a Private Message to Black88GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnnyK:
You can't get into wars that have nothing to do with you (ahem, palestine and israel) and not expect retaliation. America has done the same to other countries (though not in an independent terrorist fashion). I hope those responsible are punished. Not the innocent people around them.


When has America hijacked another gov'ts planes and flown them into buildings? Hmm cant seem to figure that one out, I figured though I would ask the superior Canadian....

So I guess you propose we should just leave a million or so jews to defend themselves against several million arabs? What if you had a relative in Jerusalem like I do?

[This message has been edited by Black88GT (edited 09-12-2001).]

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Mach10
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Report this Post09-12-2001 02:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mach10Click Here to Email Mach10Send a Private Message to Mach10Direct Link to This Post
Johnny, lay off. There's a lot of negative feelings already without having to stir things up. Give it a rest, let people deal with it in their own way for now, huh? I can't condone racism, but I'm not going to jump in and act all self-righteous. You DO realize that 10,000 americans just died today, right? Give these people a break. Please.
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Report this Post09-12-2001 02:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnnyKClick Here to Email JohnnyKSend a Private Message to JohnnyKDirect Link to This Post
Alright. I didn't mean to stir things up, i'd just like to point out that being a racist ignorant idiot is not the way to go about things. I realize 10000 americans lost their lives today. i was shocked and saddened and was glued to my TV set the whole day. I'll explain myself later.

[This message has been edited by JohnnyK (edited 09-12-2001).]

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Report this Post09-12-2001 02:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jaygee79Click Here to Email Jaygee79Send a Private Message to Jaygee79Direct Link to This Post
i just heard that they know of 5 suspects out of Logan. all were arabs. they also found a car near the airport with arabic books on how to fly a plane.

they think the plane that went down in PA was headed for Camp David, or the White House, or the Capitol, or someplace big like that.

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Report this Post09-12-2001 02:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mach10Click Here to Email Mach10Send a Private Message to Mach10Direct Link to This Post
Cool. Let it lie for now, discuss later when things have calmed down a bit. People are going through shitty times. Remember that.
Peace.
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Report this Post09-12-2001 03:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Haze_PerformanceSend a Private Message to Haze_PerformanceDirect Link to This Post
JohnnyK:


So how do you suggest we find the person(s) responsible for this? The #1 suspect is a ruthless coward!! He hides within his (so called) innocent people. (They would give there lives to hide him) We tried this before. THIS IS WAR!!! Did the responsible party call ahead & warn the poor people in the WTC? How about the pentagon? Did you even see the people dancing in the streets because of this? What's this about you being smarter that people in the U.S. There is racism EVERYWHERE!!! There are MANY ignorant individuals of all races in the World. Not just in the U.S. Do you want to know why people become racist? Today I picked up my wife for the southside of Chicago... My parents have lived there for over 30 years. The neighborhood is now about 50% Arabian MANY, MANY of them were celebrating at what happened!!!!!! Flags were flying from there house. They were driving around with flags out there car windows. THAT PISSED ME OFF!!! I think its time to CLOSE our borders & reflect how vulnerable we are. Do I think we should bomb overseas????? F.U.C.K. YES!!!! Its over...... The U.S. is tired of being kicked in the ****. I say we wipe out the party responsible.. When the smoke clears we stick a American Flag in the ground and call it our (Very large) 51st state!!!

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Report this Post09-12-2001 03:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EdsB52Click Here to Email EdsB52Send a Private Message to EdsB52Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tonker:
Rather than going into it at length, I'm just going to say here that I believe many of your points are ill-founded and inflammatory.

To use Japan as an example you would first need to go into a discussion of the causes of that conflict. I don't believe that this is the time or the place, but I will gladly take it to e-mail if you like.

Racial discrimination is [b]never a valid platform. It makes you no better than Bin-Laden or the Nazis.

Occupation of the arabs would probably be counter-productive. Notice how well it has worked for Israel? I agree there are arab states that would benefit from a new government. Bush blew it in '91. But I don't know how well it would work. They're a very different culture. The arab countries are much less secular.

In some cases, "The rag-head royalty" as you so succinctly put it, may indeed have some idea of what's going on. In many cases they don't. They're no more likely to know what's going on than your intelligence community. In fact they're probably much less likely to know.

Anyways, rather than debate this at length here, I'll let you take it to e-mail if you like. If not we'll just let it rest for now, shall we?[/B]

"Rather than going into it at length, I'm just going to say here that I believe many of your points are ill-founded and inflammatory."

Inflammatory to whom? I hope not you. Or are you a sand....I mean a rag head? If you are a rag head I hope you take great offense to my slander, if not, why does it bother you? If you are a rag head, I would gladly give you my address to face me and relate your sentiments. The problem is rag heads (which I don't think you are) would tend to fire bomb my house and avoid facing me. Ill-founded? Which point(s) do you assert are ill-founded?

"To use Japan as an example you would first need to go into a discussion of the causes of that conflict. I don't believe that this is the time or the place, but I will gladly take it to e-mail if you like."

No, let's keep it public. I've taken several classes on this subject, done extensive reading on that subject, and have written comprehensive reports on this. In other words, I would love to engage you. Be sure to include discussion about armistice.

"Racial discrimination is never a valid platform. It makes you no better than Bin-Laden or the Nazis."

I'm not being racially discriminate. Bin Laden isn't necessarily a racist either; he kills for religious beliefs amongst other reasons.

"Occupation of the Arabs would probably be counter-productive. Notice how well it has worked for Israel?"

We don't occupy Israel for the purpose of policing them. Apples and oranges.

"They're a very different culture. The Arab countries are much less secular."

They would conform or go bye-bye. They've shown they won't act responsibly on their own, so we need to help them see the way.

"In some cases, "The rag-head royalty" as you so succinctly put it, may indeed have some idea of what's going on. In many cases they don't."

You just made a contradiction. Either you think they generally do or you think they generally don't. It's highly naive to think the rag-head royalty is unaware.

"They're no more likely to know what's going on than your intelligence community. In fact they're probably much less likely to know."

Based on what, your intuition?

You, my friend, aren't qualified to be pissed. You live in Canada, which is a beautiful, generally neutral country. I live in the US where we stick our noses into every world matter, whether warranted or not. I don't want to banter whether the rag heads were justified in what they did by virtue of our interference. I don't want to banter whether an Iraqi, Iranian, or Palestinian are made of a different fiber from each other. I want A) payback, and B) resolution, so this will never happen again. I honestly don't care if we do kill all of the Arab nations to preserve peace over here, I don't think it's the answer, but I just want resolution.

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quote
Originally posted by Mach10:
Eds: Uh, the fanatic wing of Islam isn't just after the US because they are siding with Israel. Islamic leaders have percieved western society as a threat to their way of life for quite a while. Firstly, the idea of American "Freedom" conflicts quite heavily with what is percieved as right and proper. Women showing their hair!?! Men shaving their beards?!? Unheard of! Take a visit to Saudi Arabia. People are friendly enough, but the sense of propriety is somewhat offended.

Secondly, the US is quite vocal about preaching it's freedom and love of democracy. This raises dangerous opinions in the populace. Thoughts like "If I was American, I wouldn't have to dress how I like only indoors." For the resident Theocracy, independant thought is a Bad Thing.

Remember, though, that the majority of the islamic fanatics can't read. The Qua'ran teaches peace and tolerance. True, there are some rules about what is considered proper which may seem restrictive, but in general, Islam is a pretty nice concept.

Now, insert some frothing power-hungry madmen, who "read" the Qua'ran FOR these people. "Allah says you go to heaven if you blow up this plane" and crap like that. Suddenly, due to the already devout followers, Islam is dangerous. Not cool.

Most of the Arab states don't need "babysitting." The same way that not all germans were nazis. True, there are some rotten apples in the basket, but let's face it. Find me a society without one. The problem inherent with the societies in question is that they place religion above all else. This is great when the people doing the reading are preaching love and tolerance. Not so good when waging Ji'Had against everything western. 99.5% of the populations are just people trying to make money to feed their families. Most are happy the way things are, and don't pay attention to politics. They won't EVER thank you for "liberating" them.

However, the .5% are terrorists. Terrorism is EVIL. Terrorism MUST be stomped out. Unfortunate, but if innocent people must die, then so be it. The corruption does spread deep. There are people at the top that look the other way. Maybe they are forced into it, maybe they have financial interest. Maybe they just don't like Americans. The tricky bit will be sorting out which is which. I thouroghly applaud the USs stance that harboring these monsters is the same as co-conspirating.

I won't pretend that the Israel-Palestine thing doesn't have anything to do with it. However, the facts remain that the Islamic right-wing have more reasons (at least for themselves) for what they do.

"Uh, the fanatic wing of Islam isn't just after the US because they are siding with Israel. Islamic leaders have percieved western society as a threat to their way of life for quite a while."

You do realize the fight started with the reinstatement of Israel after WWII, don't you? You also draw a distinction between the fanatic wing of Islam and the individual governments of Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, and others. It was never proven that OJ killed the two people, but is it obvious? Isn't it also obvious that the Arabic nations hate the US and would collaborate on such an event? How many Arabic nations haven't performed some form of terrorism against the US? The Arabs are just pissed at the US for controlling their religion. Maybe we don't have the right to support Israel, but that doesn't justify this.

"True, there are some rules about what is considered proper which may seem restrictive, but in general, Islam is a pretty nice concept."

So are Dianetics (concept), but the application of both suck.

"Now, insert some frothing power-hungry madmen, who "read" the Qua'ran FOR these people. "Allah says you go to heaven if you blow up this plane" and crap like that. Suddenly, due to the already devout followers, Islam is dangerous. Not cool."

I don't want to change the Middle East's religion or philosophy, just their actions.

"Most of the Arab states don't need "babysitting." The same way that not all germans were nazis."

I don't know about most, but some do not. We babysat Germany to a degree, and Japan to a large degree.

"True, there are some rotten apples in the basket, but let's face it. Find me a society without one."

The problem is that most of Arabia is a large basket.

"The problem inherent with the societies in question is that they place religion above all else."

Hey, that's argument. Glad you agree.

"Not so good when waging Ji'Had against everything western. 99.5% of the populations are just people trying to make money to feed their families. Most are happy the way things are, and don't pay attention to politics. They won't EVER thank you for "liberating" them."

I don't agree. I believe most of the citizens are scared to death of their government. I think it's crazy to think they wouldn't thank us for liberating them.

"Terrorism MUST be stomped out. Unfortunate, but if innocent people must die, then so be it."

Honestly, then what is your proposition? You poo-poo my approach, but then have no answer. Military troops will die now, or we can bleed in the military and civilian sector forever. I find a pattern of Canadian opposition. The truth is that you don't want your beautiful country brought into it. I don't blame you, but as I told Tonker, you aren't qualified to be pissed, as your homeland wasn't attacked.

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quote
Originally posted by Tonker:
So basically you've just agreed with me, haven't you? I said there would be no difference in the way we feel at the tragedy unless "you feel there's been damage to American pride and/or honour." At least that was the context within my posting that you left out. This loss of human life is terrible regardless of your nationality. The loss of capital is also unfortunate, but can be replaced.


[This message has been edited by Tonker (edited 09-12-2001).]

No, I don't agree with you at all. You keep trying to minimize my suffering to ego. My suffering is first, for my countrymen and women. My second concern is for the property damage. You obviously think Americans have an air of honor and ego about them that supercedes real values. I bet most Americans would take your assertion of "you feel there's been damage to American pride and/or honour." with a lot of anger. This isn't that difficult; some rag heads murdered thousands and will continue to murder many more thousands unless we finish at least their régime, and maybe their entire culture. Darwin would agree with me.

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EdsB52

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quote
Originally posted by Nashco:
So, does that mean a person with cloth wrapped around their head is wearing a terrorist uniform??? Or does that just mean that all terrorists have cloth wrapped around their head?

*shakes head* what a retarded statement...

Bryce
88 GT

"Rag heads" is a metaphore for no-good, should be dead Arab. No offense meant.

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quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
Tonker, I don't think Ed was aking if Our gov't knew what was going on with terrorist groups. He was referring to whether Afgan, Syria,Jordan,and Palestinian heads of state knew what was up with, Bin Laden,Hammas(sp),Islamic Jihad, and other groups. The FBI and Justice Dept keeps pretty close tabs on groups like the KKK, Aryan Nation,and even the Republic of Texas, here in the states. The Islamic leaders may know everything about
the terrorists. But they have a pretty good idea, and they couldn't operate from these countries without at least their permission, if not their support. At this time of night, it is pointing more and more toward Bin Laden. These groups often move into population centers when things get hot, for protection afforded from knowing the U>S> has always shied away from high collatoral damage. There will be a lot of it this time, because we just don't care anymore. 10,000 civilians is a lot of damage here. Members of congress have already indicated that just giving Bin Laden up will not suffice, Afganistan is to pay for their part in harboring him so long. The Russians need the cash, maybe we could pay them to do it, but I think they've had a belly full of their 'Vietnam'. This is no longer just about revenge, it's about justice. Justice for 10,000(est) innocent civilians. Of course
it is important to remember how few invaders have left Afganistan victorious.

Well put.

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quote
Originally posted by Mach10:
MJ: Good points. Bin Laden is a graven coward. If Afghanistan is willing to turn him over, that would be a positive thing, also. It tells the rest of the world that it'll be harder to hide from your wrath. Then you can execute Bin Lanen publicly, and stick his head on a pole. MAKE AN EXAMPLE OF HIM.

Honestly Mach, deterrence is fools gold. It might work if we turn Afghanistan upside-down and kick out the government. The rest of the adverse Arabs might back off. I think we need to rip all of Arabia or get away from Israel.

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News Update

Numerous rag heads are arrested. A guy who had a confrontation with them yesterday about parking space?? called the cops today and told them about his incidence. The cops/fbi found the car and in it was afgan piloting books.

Couple cellular phone calls have been recorded from the flights. Thank you ease dropping government. The name of the terrorist was mentioned several times.

The Pennsivania flight, was brought down probably by the passengers. There was a cellular call to a passengers mother who said, they were going to take over the plane.

Too bad this wasn't done with the other planes. It pisses me off, there were 3-4 of them with small ass knifes compared to 40-70 passengers. Some were threatend with a bomb. If im going to die, im going to kill one of them before i go.


Its Afgams responsibility to control their terrorists. A resolution is to destroy the government. We use our satellite's and pin point all of his camps, and use satellite targeted missles/bombs.

I agree with Haze. Pisses me off too seeing these jag offs celebrating. Why the hell did they come here anyway????????????? I guess the have the right too. I'll turn my head away if theres hate groups in that neighbor hood doing their spray painting.

Another thing is, we have that underground tech center in colorado? With the radar that detects everything. Supprisingly they didn't see 3 dots dissapear, and make 3 hard turns.

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Report this Post09-12-2001 04:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Direct Link to This Post
I might get ripped for this one but I don't really care. First off there is not a problem with putting religion above all other things. That is what Christains are supposed to do. The problem comes when you have people exploit the religon and the general mass doesn't know how to think for themselves. Secondly, If we back away from Israel then we just showed the world that the United States of America can be pushed around by terrorist activity. Bad message. Israel is also our ally. It is our duty to stick up for them we have that right. Those Arab sure stick together. And also I think Israel has the right to the land. A lot of the world has been under attacks like this. I was just waiting for it to happen to us. I wish that it would not have happened but I knew it was inevitable. I also have no problem with people calling Arabs "Ragheads". They do wear rags on thier heads. So what is the big deal? That does not make a person racist. I also belive the United States should take swift and severe action against the country that has sheltered these terrorist. There was no excuse for this. And no offense but Canadians can not know what it is like to have your country shut down and thousands dead while people dance on the street. I belive we should back Israel all the way and wipe out all who would threaten the United States and Israel.

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[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 09-12-2001).]

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quote
Originally posted by Brandon86SE:
Brandon

Another Canuck in dissent, what a surprise. YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO BE PISSED. I hope I don't need to tell that to another Canadian! Why is it all the Canadians want to be touchy-feely about this? Could it be they didn't loose so much today? Could it be they want the whole matter to blow over? Could it be that they are never the targets of terrorism? Or could it be all of these?

"Frankly, EDS your posts disgust me."

Good, I was going to go to sleep tonight, but instead I'll stay awake to keep your appetite filled.

"Your racial bantering is no different, albeit polar, from what Bin Laden tells his people."

How is no different? At the same time, how is it polar? How do you know what Bin Laden tells his people? Intuition? Your Lilly-ass is sitting up there in a primarily monoculture, mono-race throwing your peace and love message down to a country in mourning. It's not well received by me. BTW, I haven't engaged in racial bantering. I haven't called for the lynching of any Arab-Americans. I've read volumes about the Japanese internment camps, I'm well aware of what happened in WWII in the US in regard to Japanese-Americans.

"I'm sure that whoever planned this attack is laughing at you, as you turn on your fellow Americans just because of their heritage."

Which fellow Americans have I turned on?

"There is little that can piss me off as much as stereotyping of any type."

Well could you tell me what else it is that pisses you off? I would hate to run out of things. How about this for stereotyping; the rate of recidivism for convicts is about 70%. Is it rational to think once a criminal, always a criminal? It's a valid stereotype. How do you like stereotypes now? How many countries have engaged in terrorism other than Arabic nations? Don't trip on your fingers.

"For your information, I am in University: 2nd year Electrical Engineering, top of my class. If I didn't decide on engineering, I would have poli sci, leading into law."

Ya, and if I didn't go into Justice/Law, I would have been a lottery winner. Who are you trying to impress and why? BTW, second year of college is nothing to brag about.

"Personal attacks on my intelligence, because of the fact that I have a cool head and am able to look at a situation rationally are incredibly unfounded."

Without reviewing previous posts, wasn't it you whining about an unfounded argument? If so, representing your credentials and cool head doesn't address my question.

"I do hope that whoever is responsible for these horrendous attacks is brought down. However killing every non-american would be a very ineffective approach. "

Now you're talking; process of elimination.

"This is a war, yes I believe a war!, against terrorism. This means they have no country, no territory."

Horsesh!t. As previously established by me and agreed upon by many members, rag head royalty is well aware of what their radical faction is up to. I believe they even fund much of it.

"Conventional ideas like "bomb them all" just don't apply."

Find where I've written that. I don't subscribe to that ideal. I say we establish which troops are adverse to the US, send 50,000 troops over per sh!thole country, go through and establish which individuals are sh!theads within each country, execute them, throw out the government, establish a democratic election, and help the countries establish some form of commerce and trade (manufacturing) with the US. Do you think the good citizens of those countries would care about having autonomy and freedom? That's your opinion.

"What worries me mostly now is how the US will react. If they go ahead hot-headedly and start bombing the hell out of Iraq, Iran, Sudan, Afghanastan, etc. without discretion there will be many countries that will not stand for it! China, India, maybe even Russia would not allow it! We do not want to polarize such world powers again, it's been done, we should learn from our past. However, some retaliatory action must take place. If there were none, it would be like painting a big target on democracies (particularily the US) everywhere! Not doing anything would be telling whoever is responsible that they can get away with whatever they want!
It is a dilemma, and one that I pray Bush and his advisors can find a reasonable course of action for."

Thank you, you've just proven my point. You're worried about your country and wish we would act carefully and apathetically so you don't get your country blown up.
China doesn't give a crap about the Arabs.
India...what the F can or will they do???
Russia might have a problem with Afghanistan, but we can get around them.
Just keep praying for ass and the ass of your country and I'll do the same.

BTW, I certainly don't want to stereotype all Canadians into the generalization of being apathetic to our suffering, just the three I've already addressed.

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quote
Originally posted by Oreif:
First, I don't think just giving up Bin Laden is going to suffice. Second, The attack in Afghanistan is by rebels of the government. These rebels are hoping to capture/eliminate Bin Laden in order to win U.S. support so they can gain power there.
I don't think the U.S. Government is going to be happy with that. Also Afghanistan is not the only country in Bin Laden's circle.

Many middle-east countries will try to stay out of the way if an Official Decloration of War is instituted. Many know that a line was crossed by this and retaliation will be violent and swift.

In the past punishment of terrorists was limited to those that actually participated in the act. Leaving the planners, financers, and the main structure in place to create more terror.
Now is the time to eliminate them ALL.

You must not be from Canada! You're exactly right. Can't we learn from history (Gulf War)? We need to clean house while we're justified. If Europe and the rest of the world is unhappy; drop down and suck it.

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Report this Post09-12-2001 05:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MonkeymanSend a Private Message to MonkeymanDirect Link to This Post
This is gonna be long, but just read it anyway.

..."90% certain" that it's Osama bin Laden behind this. ..."based on new information, not speculation." "Afganistan-based..."

Those are quotes from senior White House officials whom, I'm guessing, know a hell of a lot more about the details of this than most of us will ever know.

Here's my suggestion. Give the Afganistan gov't 48 hours to produce bin Laden. In the meantime, close all Afgan borders so he can't escape. If he isn't in US custody in 48 hours, make Afganistan a parking lot.

It would be nice to spare all innocent lives, but that's impossible. Since bin Laden is obviously too chicken to show his face in public, we have to make sure that he (and all of his co-conspirators) are greasy spots on the pavement. If it takes the elimination of innocent lives, so be it. I would expect the same treatment if we were harboring bin Laden. If we knew for sure exactly where bin Laden is hiding (guess he wouldn't be "hiding" then?), destroy that area only, but who knows exactly where he is? Obviously we don't or we would have put him in a bag a long time ago. What about the use of Navy SEALs or Army Rangers in a nice, stealth, nighttime, one-on-one attack of bin Laden himself and spare innocent lives? Fine. If you can find him.

Once again, I don't advocate the loss of innocent lives, but this madman must be stopped at all costs. Would it have been worth the deaths of innocent Germans if it had meant killing Adolf Hitler at the beginning of the war? Yes. (My apologies to the German PFF members. Nothing personal.) (Sidebar--I loath and even hate Hitler, but at least he was man enough to show his face in public.)

Don't condem the Afganistans who are cheering in public. It may be that they are just caught up in the moment. Will they be disappointed if bin Laden is eliminated? Probably not. Same with those of Mid East ancestry here in the US. I may not agree with their way of thinking, but as far as I know, they weren't behind any of this.

I'm about through rambling for now. I would gladly risk my life if it meant the end of bin Ladens power, but I don't think it would do any good. Teach the world a lesson. You wanna **** with America (or its allies)? Be prepared to pay the price.

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Report this Post09-12-2001 05:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EdsB52Click Here to Email EdsB52Send a Private Message to EdsB52Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnnyK:
Some of you guys sicken me. I didn't know you people were so racist (althought I should have assumed with the rice comments). There are some comments that are disguting Punish the whole country, not just the terrorists? I HOPE that bush isn't as stupid to jump to conclusions as some of you. It is the worst act of terrorism to ever happen, and I feel bad for the 10000 (or so estimated?) deaths, but killing 10000 other innocent people in afghanistan isn't any better. I hope those responsible are punished. Not the innocent people around them.

[This message has been edited by JohnnyK (edited 09-12-2001).]

Hey Johnny, you know I like you but I must strongly disagree. This is another case of a Canadian in dissent with US military action. The reason is obvious; you don't want to get Canada sucked into it. I don't blame you, but allow us to deliver our remedy with EXTREME PREJUDICE. I don't mean racial prejudice either.

You distinguish between innocent and guilty. You didn't happen to catch that little clip where the rag heads, from washcloth (children) heads to beach towel (adults) heads were celebrating in the streets while the police pretended to come out and break it up, did you? Define innocent from guilty. How can you shoot women and children? (rhetorical)

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Report this Post09-12-2001 05:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for baptistheartClick Here to Email baptistheartSend a Private Message to baptistheartDirect Link to This Post
My .02 destroy the taliban, unleash isreal and let them smoke whoever they feel like.

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Report this Post09-12-2001 05:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EdsB52Click Here to Email EdsB52Send a Private Message to EdsB52Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnnyK:
Alright. I didn't mean to stir things up, i'd just like to point out that being a racist ignorant idiot is not the way to go about things. I realize 10000 americans lost their lives today. i was shocked and saddened and was glued to my TV set the whole day. I'll explain myself later.

[This message has been edited by JohnnyK (edited 09-12-2001).]

So much for cooling it down (racist ignorant idiot). The sick irony is that you're condemning me and others for being supposed racists (while living in a primarily mono-raced country), while not allowing us to retaliate against a region full of anialists. Which is worse or more extreme? Who is more entitled?

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Report this Post09-12-2001 05:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EdsB52Click Here to Email EdsB52Send a Private Message to EdsB52Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Haze_Performance:
JohnnyK:


So how do you suggest we find the person(s) responsible for this? The #1 suspect is a ruthless coward!! He hides within his (so called) innocent people. (They would give there lives to hide him) We tried this before. THIS IS WAR!!! Did the responsible party call ahead & warn the poor people in the WTC? How about the pentagon? Did you even see the people dancing in the streets because of this? What's this about you being smarter that people in the U.S. There is racism EVERYWHERE!!! There are MANY ignorant individuals of all races in the World. Not just in the U.S. Do you want to know why people become racist? Today I picked up my wife for the southside of Chicago... My parents have lived there for over 30 years. The neighborhood is now about 50% Arabian MANY, MANY of them were celebrating at what happened!!!!!! Flags were flying from there house. They were driving around with flags out there car windows. THAT PISSED ME OFF!!! I think its time to CLOSE our borders & reflect how vulnerable we are. Do I think we should bomb overseas????? F.U.C.K. YES!!!! Its over...... The U.S. is tired of being kicked in the ****. I say we wipe out the party responsible.. When the smoke clears we stick a American Flag in the ground and call it our (Very large) 51st state!!!

You go boy! Did the fncking rag heads actually parade in your town. You're talking about raghead-Americans? I better stop here, but I think you know what comes next. I want all you flag-waving Republcans to watch what GW does here. He can earn tons of respect from me if he goes all out, or validate my current concerns. If the nation pled to the men of this country to go over and take that chunk of sh!t land away, or to hold down the military here while the current troops go over, I'll go back in for the interim period. Fnck anyone that thinks I shouldn't. If we called the North VC "Charlie," then would we call the rag heads "Hodgie" as we cut their ugly-ass heads from their body and use them for candle-holders for our night camp sites?

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Report this Post09-12-2001 08:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1FST2M6Click Here to visit 1FST2M6's HomePageClick Here to Email 1FST2M6Send a Private Message to 1FST2M6Direct Link to This Post

found this on another forum... thought it was fitting

a friend assembled these photos...
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1614647&a=13747750&f=0&sp=1&showall=true

[This message has been edited by 1FST2M6 (edited 09-12-2001).]

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Report this Post09-12-2001 08:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for OreifClick Here to visit Oreif's HomePageClick Here to Email OreifSend a Private Message to OreifDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnnyK:
Some of you guys sicken me. I didn't know you people were so racist (althought I should have assumed with the rice comments). There are some comments that are disguting Punish the whole country, not just the terrorists? I HOPE that bush isn't as stupid to jump to conclusions as some of you. It is the worst act of terrorism to ever happen, and I feel bad for the 10000 (or so estimated?) deaths, but killing 10000 other innocent people in afghanistan isn't any better. I hope those responsible are punished. Not the innocent people around them.

[This message has been edited by JohnnyK (edited 09-12-2001).]

If the country is supporting him (financing him) They will continue to create and support other terrorist activities.
As for innocent people, Why don't you explain that to the 10,000 lost or the families that have lost releatives! In many Middle-East nations they believe in the "eye for an eye". Fine give us 10,000 terrorists so we can drop a 110 story building on them.

Two statements come to mind.
All's fair in love and WAR.
Payback is a B!TCH.

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Report this Post09-12-2001 09:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for firstfieroClick Here to Email firstfieroSend a Private Message to firstfieroDirect Link to This Post
Hell yes the whole country should pay! We already warned them that if anything happens we will hold the country responsable that is harboring these idiotic towel heads! This is exactly why I think it wrong that we try to police the world! These people have no morals!! Their god tells them that this is completly fine to kill innocent people in the name of ahla (sorry probobly spelled wrong) If they want to kill each other i say let them. It's none of our damn business.

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Report this Post09-12-2001 09:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero5Click Here to visit Fiero5's HomePageSend a Private Message to Fiero5Direct Link to This Post
Two things to keep in mind during all this:

1) It can and probably will happen again. America (you and me) has just discovered in horrible shock how easy it is to turn an everyday commercial airline into a highly destructive missile.
As soon as the nations flights are again continued, how long before another terrorist hijacks a plane and tries or succedes in crashing it into another high profile area?

2) Don't forget that one successful terrorist attack can instigate others. We have learned in the past that copycat killers/terrorists love to try and jump on the bandwagon. The "let's out do the other" could turn many large cities in the United States into a wasteland.

Our skies will soon be filled again with thousands of large aircraft. In one day, 09-11-01, any and all of these aircraft have now become potential highly destructive weapons.

A small groupe of terrorists, led by whoever, has just opened a very terrible door. Now that it's open, how many "others" may now decide to try and walk thru it too?

I can't even begin to decide what would be the right way to proceed and what may be the wrong way, nor would I be so arrogant to even try.
Many people find it very easy to be an "arm chair" quarterback. It isn't that simple.
Our government will make the big choices, and whether we agree with them or not they are in the drivers seat all the way.

Let's hope that the end decision that is made is one that accomplishes the goal wanted with the least amount of innocent lives lost.

May God help us all.

Steve

[This message has been edited by Fiero5 (edited 09-12-2001).]

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Sleeper
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Report this Post09-12-2001 09:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SleeperClick Here to Email SleeperSend a Private Message to SleeperDirect Link to This Post
i see alot of people are talking about innocent people(rag heads). Osama Bin Laden is hiding behind innocent people and they are letting him, they are telling us they don't know where he is. they are not really innocent, there are NO innocent people in WAR.
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Report this Post09-12-2001 10:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for deceler8Click Here to Email deceler8Send a Private Message to deceler8Direct Link to This Post
Does anyone find it curious that the planes hijacked were trans-continental flights with very few passengers aboard ?

I believe what we'll find is that the parties responsible purchased most of the tickets for these flights, realizing that their limited ability to get weapons aboard required that few passengers be present.

And we know that the passengers on the plane that crashed near Pittsburgh were successful in retaking the plane.

Most likely scenario is that the armed forces now station personnel on flights for at least the foreseeable future.

There was a breakdown in intelligence...that can't be disputed. But it appears security did prevent weapons such as guns or explosives from being brought on board. Had that been the case, I have no doubt the terrorists would have claimed the White House in addition to the other targets.

We will necessarily strike and strike hard against even perceived enemies in the coming days or weeks. It is a sad fact of war that we necessarily "shoot first and ask questions later".

Let those who perpetrated this act remember that the last parties who inflicted this kind of damage on America faced our full wrath which included the use of nuclear weapons. And I would hope that our actions are clear and precise, and that this time around we are not so quick to come in and rebuild what we destroy.

We must set an example of what horror we can produce when threatened. God be with us all.

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Report this Post09-12-2001 10:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by deceler8:
Most likely scenario is that the armed forces now station personnel on flights for at least the foreseeable future.

I hope so... I'd also suggest diverting all aircraft away from cities when possible, have them circle around as to spend the least amount of time over the buildings as possible. In cases where the airport is within the city limits, this isn't possible.. but in all other cases, maybe have fighter escorts for planes deviating from correct flight paths..

and why the heck didn't the air traffic controllers signal the military that multiple planes had changed course and weren't responding?

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Report this Post09-12-2001 10:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wkaylClick Here to Email wkaylSend a Private Message to wkaylDirect Link to This Post
My thoughts as to how to deal with whomever did this. Declare war on the terrorists. That will open up the avenue of covert operations. Once the responsible are definitely identified, go in take them out without much fanfare. Maybe not all Americans will know what happened to them, but all other terrorist organizations will.

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Report this Post09-12-2001 11:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1FST2M6Click Here to visit 1FST2M6's HomePageClick Here to Email 1FST2M6Send a Private Message to 1FST2M6Direct Link to This Post

a pic no one will ever be able to take again...

Statue of liberty, from the top of the WTC.

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Report this Post09-12-2001 11:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for LarryBSend a Private Message to LarryBDirect Link to This Post
The first plane was flying westbound when it hit the north tower. After leaving Boston it was near Springfield MA when it abruptly turned to the south then approached NYC from the northeast near the Connecticut/New York border.

The other plane out of Boston crossed the border from Massachusetts into New York, abruptly turned south, then when it was over central New Jersey it turned northeast and headed for NYC. That was the 2nd plane to hit the WTC, and it was flying eastbound when it struck.

Last night they were able to reconstruct the paths of the planes using recorded radar data.


 
quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:
A friend of mine who's an airline pilot, just told me the following interesting tidbit: All planes were westbound flights and all turned to hit their targets eastbound - facing Mekka.

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Ken Wittlief
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Report this Post09-12-2001 11:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Ken WittliefSend a Private Message to Ken WittliefDirect Link to This Post
the thing about this that pisses me off the most - america is the first county in the world to base its existance on democracy, freedom, liberty, and personal responsibility.

we accept people from all countries, races, religions and backgrounds - we take in students from all around the world and give them access to our technology and medical education system

we take in the sick and injured from all around the world, and treat them with compassion and kindness

we send our sons, and our food and our very blood to nations in time of disaster, regardless of who they are.

and these bastards wrap a towel around their heads, proclaim themselves holy men, proclaim a holy war, proclaim any of their people who die for the cause will go straight to paradise (no matter what they have done in the past)

they take the money from the oil fields and businesses WE have constructed in their deserts - they take the riches from their land that WE COULD have confiscated a 100 times over

they treat their own women like dogs

they murder anyone within their own country that follows religions other than theirs or who oppose their political system

and hide behind a few verses of the Koran to give themselves license to murder and mame

and they have the nerve to call us the Great Satan!

what they are doing is nothing but lusting after power for powers sake - it has nothing to do with religon or truth

Isreal was nothing but a wasteland, a worthless desert region, before the Jewish people were allowed to return there in numbers and control it.

If it werent for US dollars and our generous willingness to allow the arab nations to KEEP their oil fields, then the rest of the middle east would be the same - worthless desert with their people wandering on camels in absolute poverty.

Its time for America to step in. Its time for the world to step in. If these people wont recognize basic human rights - womens rights to be human - each mans rights to freedom of religion - each persons rights to life and liberty - Israels right to exist - then its time to step in and

take their oil fields away

take their weapons away

take their wealth away

if they wont act like humans

we are under no obligation to treat them like humans.

terrorist threat?! America is not a few aircraft or a few buildings. We can arm ourselves if we need to.

They have played their ace - its over for them - they will never be able to pull anything like this again - every flight in america will have armed guards on board - starting tomorrow - you watch.

The free world will go to any length, we will pay any price, to maintain liberty.

We will not bend

We will not flinch

We will not blink!

We will not hide!

What was the first thing the fireman did when they got to the base of the world trade center last night?

You saw it live!

Red White and Blue

tied to a pole hanging sideways over the rubble

our flag IS STILL THERE!

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Voytek
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Report this Post09-12-2001 12:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VoytekClick Here to Email VoytekSend a Private Message to VoytekDirect Link to This Post
Amen to that, Ken.

Some of you are calling others racist because they have assumed that Arabs are the people responsible for this (and using a variety of 'choice' words to describe Arabs).
Well, think about this: probably 90% of all world's terrorism has been carried out by Arabs. They have terrorism in their blood.

We let them do whatever they please in our countries, while they execute people even for having a bible in their possession.

Bin Laden and Afghanistan is just one of the culprits but there is talk that Saudi Arabia is involved too.

While only SOME of the people there may be friendly, the majority of them (and that includes the 'opressed' women) are hateful towards anyone non-muslim.

Bomb the sh*t out of them and take the oil away.


P.S. Someone mentioned the potential of Israel's involvement. There may be something to it. G.W. took a more 'hands-off' approach in the Middle East. Now he has a good reason to get involved and show more support for Israel again. They also said that whoever planned the attacks, was VERY well funded. Think about it.

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Report this Post09-12-2001 12:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Black88GTSend a Private Message to Black88GTDirect Link to This Post
Saudi Arabia has been our ally since the Gulf War. Remember we bailed them out. Saddam would have invaded them next.

Also, Bin Laden is the son of a rich businessman. He has millions at his disposal. While it wouldn't surprise me if countries like Afghanistan give him a place to live for free and such, he has the resources alone to pull this off. When you think about it, how much money did they really need to do this? Plane tickets and maybe if they paid the suicide bombers families?

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Report this Post09-12-2001 01:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Patrick's DadClick Here to visit Patrick's Dad's HomePageClick Here to Email Patrick's DadSend a Private Message to Patrick's DadDirect Link to This Post
It's official. An arrest has been made at the Westin Copley Place in Boston. One person was injured, but we're not sure if it was the suspect or an officer.
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Report this Post09-12-2001 01:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnnyK:
but killing 10000 other innocent people in afghanistan isn't any better. I hope those responsible are punished. Not the innocent people around them.
][/B]

Thats the price you pay for hiding criminals. If yesterday wasnt his idea, hes still wanted anyway for lots more. Its their choice, give him up or pay the price. The only thing arabs (at least ones Ive seen) only believe in an eye for an eye, so I say let them make their own choice and be prepared to accept the consequences. Its not just about the ones who died, also the many thousands more affected. And if hes got so much money and support let them pay the cash to the ones he caused it too.

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Report this Post09-12-2001 01:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnnyKClick Here to Email JohnnyKSend a Private Message to JohnnyKDirect Link to This Post
Some of you people don't realize that you can't just take over a country. See, other countries don't like that, and then it turns into a war (like say, every world war). Anyways, Eds, the problem is already here (usually, an American problem is a Canadian problem). There are hundreds of your planes basically down the street from me.
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