go to another thread. Kabul, Afghanistan according to CNN Live, is under a bombing attack by unkown aircraft. Anti aircraft fire and missles. lots of fires all over city.

Australia has gone on military alert also. Our Prime Minister is in Washington. All our airports have upped security and we are now getting footage of missile attacks in Afganistan also. Every station here like yours is covering this crisis. They wonder why I have been protesting letting so many Muslims in this country. They are the self proclaimed enemy of the western world.

quote Originally posted by Spektyr: Bush just needs to narrow it down and then unleash Mother Green and her Fighting Machine. Hell, we could make it fair. Just leaflet bomb the entire area. "To whom it may concern. Tomorrow we're going to send in the entire US Military to kill, maim, and torture those who are responsible for the attacks on American men, women and children. If you are not one of these people, you'd better start handing them over. Our military will be shooting anything that moves, and most things that don't." Hell, carpet bomb the fraggers with F.A. Explosives. All the power of a Tac-Nuke, without the annoying side-effects. Just let the military go to town. We hardly ever let them play with their expensive toys for real.

I see a couple of flaws in what you are proposing here.
Your not fighting an ARMY (so to speak) it's terrorists your dealing with.
And there in this country already.

I have absolutly no doubt in my mind,if the U.S. where to retaliate with some large force right now.
(BTW we don't even know yet,who is resonsible... just some guesses, nothing concrete)
Chemical warfare would be the next step,these
terrorists would resort to.
And not in some foreign land, no right here in your backyard.
(remember the japanese subway...)

So don't get me wrong, what happend today was so bad. (the word suddenly doesn't seem to come even close to desribe todays events)
And my thoughts go out to the victims and their family.
But what we need now is, level headed people to think thru are next steps.
Not some hot headed approach, in the direction we thought it was coming from.

Tina

Doesn't all this make the bickering on PFF so insignificant? (not that we all bicker )

(I haven't had the time to read the first 2 pages - sorry if I'm repeating someone's opinion.)

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quote Originally posted by Voytek: Doesn't all this make the bickering on PFF so insignificant? (not that we all bicker )

I had thought about that too, you're definately right.

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If you can read this, I'm parked.

Wow! So many people typing at the same time.

AusFiero - I couldn't agree more.

Get this: OUR (as in Canadian) prime minister has cancelled a trip for safety reasons AND the parliament hill is blocked off.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

Anyways.........

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Considering that they had found a couple of suspicious parcels at Parliment hill, I'm not surprised that the PMs not leaving town.

dayton ohio airforce base was just bombed

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WTB:cheap fastback standard. can be ugly, doesn't have to have engine.

looking for computer parts, wholesale? cpu built to order? email me

My dad proposes this. Give Afghanistan an ultimatum. Hand over Bin Laden, or your country will become one big parking lot.

I think it'll work.

quote Originally posted by BlackDragon: dayton ohio airforce base was just bombed

Haven't heard that one yet... and I've been glued to the TV all day!?!

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Medium Metallic Green 87 GT
3.1L High Output
4 Spd OD Tranny
Open (read: Loud) Exhaust
and More!
-Rob Bartlett

dayton ohio airforce base was just bombed

really?

I haven't heard of Dayton being bombed either.... though, I did hear that the U.S. is denying responsibility for the Kubal bombing

thats what i heard on the radio. a ptl truck just confirmed

Good point....

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: And EdsB52, nobody should think you are inconsistent or hypocritical for being "conservative" in one area and "moderately left" in other area.

Correct. Actually what I wrote was that the other poster's assertion that we must establish which party is guilty, is way too liberal and makes me look conservative by comparison. Other than Rush Limbaugh, the rest of us are bipartisan. I'm pro-choice, but also pro-2nd. The two concepts politically contrast, but most people share values that span the continuum.

Not to split hairs, but I wrote "moderate-left," not "moderately left." There is a difference. The former starts at the middle of the political continuum and leans left; the latter is in the middle of the left end of the continuum. Anyway, good point.

There is a shortage of fresh whole blood. Please give the gift of life and donate a pint.

Revenge is a meal best served cold. Let's help our people who are injured. We will settle scores later.

quote Originally posted by AusFiero: Australia has gone on military alert also. Our Prime Minister is in Washington. All our airports have upped security and we are now getting footage of missile attacks in Afganistan also. Every station here like yours is covering this crisis. They wonder why I have been protesting letting so many Muslims in this country. They are the self proclaimed enemy of the western world.

Exactly. If we go to other mono-race countries, we stick out like a sore thumb and are watched and criticized at every junction. This is considered status quo and condoned by the natives of that country. If the same citizens come to America, Canada, Australia, or other white-dominated countries, they expect to be treated as one of the natives. If the natives fail to treat them as fellow citizens, then those citizens are labeled racists; where's the equity? An American-born African-American at work who is a self-proclaimed Musslim has a favorite expression; "The white man is the devil." He publicly announces that sentiment without penalty. Anyone remember when Jimmy the Greek was fired for saying "blacks were bred for large thighs" back in the 70's or was it the 80's? I don't care where someone was born, if they live in a given country and have anti-counrty (not to be confused with anti-government) sentiments to the point where they think an entire class is evil and they wish them dead, they need to go away. I feel strongly about freedom of thoughts and expression, but situations like this make me lower the bar of tollerance.

Ok, what I am going to say here will stir up some sort of controversy, but I really don't care, but there is just alot about this that bothers me.

Ok, 1st off, I will say that this is a terrible tragedy, and the people who did this should be dealt with.

But, why is the instant thought that it was the arabs that did this?? Remember Oklahoma City??? Now I know in this late hour, it is looking more and more like it is a Middle East country, but why are we so quick to assume? And I guarentee you that there was at least some American involvement in this. There is no way a forgien group with no help could do this on their own. And it might be news to some people, but there are some Americans who absolutely hate this country.

And I also wonder what happened to that plane that crashed in the field. Now I have a suspicion that the plane was shot down by our own planes. IF that would be true (Although if it was true, we would never find out) That would be absolutely DEVASTATING to the ideals of Americans! We have never taken the innocent lives of our people before, and the legal implications that shooting down innocent citizens could make for quite a terrible problem. Now, if I was in charge, yes, I would shoot down that plane, but I'm not, and according to our laws, the government had no right to shoot down that plane. And remember, that's IF they shot it down, I don't know.

Now this is the most touchy subject.

Terroists strike for a reason, whether it be relgious, economic, etc.... they all believe in something very strongly. And although we as Americans think we are great people, there are others who absolutely hate us, and think we are dispicable, just as we hate other people. But the point is, whoever these people were, they were fighting for a reason. And I think they gave America quite a wakeup call. We are not invulnerable to attacks. We are not 100% secure, like so many people thought before this.
But are they wrong to attack us? In my eyes, hell yes!! As in the eyes of most other people around the world. But they believe that they were right in doing it, it's all in your perception. They will fight us, and we will fight them. who is right?? Who knows. But remember, back in the 1700's, America's routes began in terrorism on England. We were fighting for what we believed in, and it eventually became a war, but in the beginning, it was terrorist acts. The only difference is, we didn't have the technology that was available now.

Ok, off my soap box. Oh, one more thing, if I ever met the person who did this, I would shake his hand and compliment him on the well-planned attack he did. Then I would put a bullet right the F*cking Bastards head!!

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quote Originally posted by webbee: There is a shortage of fresh whole blood. Please give the gift of life and donate a pint. Revenge is a meal best served cold. Let's help our people who are injured. We will settle scores later.

Pshaw. That adage is derived from the mafia and it works for them as they want to break the chain of accountability. But in this situation, it will make us look weak and uncertain. that's why the Arabs keep screwing us; no real retaliation. In the law we would say the US policy has no teeth, which deters no one.

I say dig your people out, then shake Arabia upside down, and squash whatever slithers out.

Eds: I am shocked and appalled at the "Kill em all let God sort 'em out" attitude. For shame.

Why not just round up all the arabic-americans, and put 'em into camps? Fresh Gruel, and plenty of excercise digging large pits in the ground.

Take out whoever's responsible. If a country is harboring these animals, then by all means jump in. Don't lump people into the same boat. You're better than that.

quote Originally posted by AkursedX: But, why is the instant thought that it was the arabs that did this?? Remember Oklahoma City??? Now I know in this late hour, it is looking more and more like it is a Middle East country, but why are we so quick to assume? And I guarentee you that there was at least some American involvement in this. There is no way a forgien group with no help could do this on their own. And it might be news to some people, but there are some Americans who absolutely hate this country. And I also wonder what happened to that plane that crashed in the field. Now I have a suspicion that the plane was shot down by our own planes. IF that would be true (Although if it was true, we would never find out) That would be absolutely DEVASTATING to the ideals of Americans! We have never taken the innocent lives of our people before, and the legal implications that shooting down innocent citizens could make for quite a terrible problem. Now, if I was in charge, yes, I would shoot down that plane, but I'm not, and according to our laws, the government had no right to shoot down that plane. And remember, that's IF they shot it down, I don't know

When there are many reports that people on cell phones have said arabs hijacked the plane, thats one indication. Also, WTC bombing in 95. Also, Pan Am flight 103. Also, 1980 Hostage situation. I could go on forever, but I think you get the point.

About shooting down the plane. We know for a fact the plane is held by terrorists. We know for a fact that 3 planes in the last hour have suicide crashed into the WTC and the Pentagon. So, do we give up 35 lives, or risk giving up thousands. There is no law that says this is illegal.

Dayton, Ohio is fine. I live here. We're fine. Some heard what they thought were bombs. It turned out to be the sonic boom from some of the planes taking off from the Air Force Base.

[This message has been edited by FieroWife (edited 09-11-2001).]

I was just watching CNN. Some high ranking political figures were giving speaches. From what they said (easy to read between the lines), they have a mighty good idea who was behind all of this.

Kill all Arabs? Nope. Find out who did this and what country is hiding them and what country/countries are working with the scum. Then do as Black88GT says, make that country a parking lot.

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'Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.'

MM

quote Originally posted by Black88GT: About shooting down the plane. We know for a fact the plane is held by terrorists. We know for a fact that 3 planes in the last hour have suicide crashed into the WTC and the Pentagon. So, do we give up 35 lives, or risk giving up thousands. There is no law that says this is illegal.

Actually, I believe the Constitution would uphold that. What if you were one of those American Citizen passengers? You would want your government shooting you down just because you are a passenger on a plane?? Don't get me wrong, I believe in sacrificing a few for the many, but legally, that does not hold. The Consitituion guarentees Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness to ALL Citizens of the United States, whether they are flying or not. So, IF (remember this is speculation) they shot that plane down, they did violate the Constitution.

thanx for the dayton update

[/b][/QUOTE]
Actually, I believe the Constitution would uphold that. What if you were one of those American Citizen passengers? You would want your government shooting you down just because you are a passenger on a plane?? Don't get me wrong, I believe in sacrificing a few for the many, but legally, that does not hold. The Consitituion guarentees Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness to ALL Citizens of the United States, whether they are flying or not. So, IF (remember this is speculation) they shot that plane down, they did violate the Constitution.[/B][/QUOTE]

Yes, I would be more then willing to sacrifice my life to save thousands of others.

I'm sorry, which law school did you say you went to again?

quote Originally posted by Black88GT: Yes, I would be more then willing to sacrifice my life to save thousands of others. I'm sorry, which law school did you say you went to again?

So you will be willing to sacrifice your life for others, as would most. But, what about the selfish bastards who care about nothing more than themselves, the people who wouldn't die for others? The government, if they shot down that plane, robbed those people of their rights, plain and simple. But this whole point is moot, because who knows what happened to the plane, and even if the government shot that plane down, we will never even find out.

i just heard on CNN that there is looting in Brookyn. WTF, our own people. we should catch these looters and drop them off in the country where this terrorist organization came from.

quote Originally posted by Sleeper: i just heard on CNN that there is looting in Brookyn. WTF, our own people. we should catch these looters and drop them off in the country where this terrorist organization came from.

...it was only a matter of time.

If the Gov'nt DID shoot it down to prevent another building from suddenly develoing a huge burning hole, then good for them.

I'm VERY sorry for the passengers, but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. I think the Pilot had augered in the plane to protect the city. If he did, he's a hero...

quote Originally posted by Mach10: I say dig your people out, then shake Arabia upside down, and squash whatever slithers out. Eds: I am shocked and appalled at the "Kill em all let God sort 'em out" attitude. For shame. Why not just round up all the arabic-americans, and put 'em into camps? Fresh Gruel, and plenty of excercise digging large pits in the ground. Take out whoever's responsible. If a country is harboring these animals, then by all means jump in. Don't lump people into the same boat. You're better than that.

Well, mach10, I'M not better than that!!Attila The Hun is way off to my left. This is what comes of appeasement and negotiating.
I warned you of dire consequences when we sucked up to China. You've changed your tune a little now. The shi* has hit the fan, right in your back yard. Is it close enough NOW? Is it your concern YET?? Now do you have a little inkling of what I've been talkin about? Still think we shouldn't be in the intell gathering business? I didn't advocate full, all out war with anyone. Just send a strong enough message that would let everyone realize it would not be worth it to SH** on us. I pray for those 10,000+ est CIVILIANS killed this morn and their families, I hurt for those firefighters and policeman. I'm not mad at you mach10. I'm hurtin over the innocent victims. Team Little Gull died in combat, I cried for them I'l cry now too.
EdsB52, GW stopped at Barksdale when he left Fla, think he told em to start preflights on your namesake? God I hate this.

My god what a feeling of disgust in the pit of my stomach. Never could i have thought somthing like this would happen. Just shocked at first i didnt believe it, then i was just counting the time difference hoping people werent at work yet. When i realized they were my heart sank for the victims and their families.

Im curious to see what Bush has to say, it will be the first chance to see the man in real action. Hopefully he wont dissapoint.

I realize this is easy to say when youa re ot in the situation, but I'd much rather be shot down in a plane and have it crash in a field than to know I could do nothing to prevent that plane from crashing into a major metropolitan area. There are reports that the hijackers used knives. Again, it's easy to say if you are not there, but couldn't a coordinated effort by all of the passengers have foiled the highjackers efforts? Please don't misunderstand. The people on those planes lost their lives, but in the future, as a passenger on a plane that is being highjacked, I might want to consider trying to do something, even if it costs me my own life, to try and prevent something like what happened today. The terrorists have declared war, and unfortunately for our way of life, any one of us may be called upon to be soldiers in the fight. The least we can do is to keep our eyes open - not become paranoid, but to be aware of things that are going on around us, especially when we travel, and not be shy to report anything suspicious to law enforcment or someone who is qualified to investigate. Information and intelligence are very powerful in any conflict.

MJ:

This was a work of a bloody genius. Few plans in history have worked out as well as this. I am just as against this as anyone, if people wanna make a statement then do it another way. But from what I've heard, there's alot of celebrating in other parts of the world.

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Previously known as Saleenfiero

quote Originally posted by Don_Chi_Chi: But from what I've heard, there's alot of celebrating in other parts of the world.

and if I had the power I would send the air force over there and level there shity place and see if they are happy then > :|
what kind of people can do that bull sh!t,
THE U.S. NEEDS TO DECLARE WAR ON ANY COUNTRY THAT IS INVOLVED WITH TERRORISM .... NO MERSEY
this might sound messed up but for all that they did to us we should give them a gift... the gift of nuclear winter .

[This message has been edited by fieroburton (edited 09-11-2001).]