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Slim Pop Up Headlights Build (HID) by doublec4
Started on: 06-06-2009 10:38 PM
Replies: 120
Last post by: BlackEmrald on 04-25-2013 08:10 PM
doublec4
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Report this Post06-06-2009 10:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
I've been planning to do a slim HID upgrade to my fiero for a while now, so I figured I would start a thread showing my plans. I am trying to keep this fairly stock looking, just slimmer/brighter/ and rectangular.

First I bought the HID ballasts and H4 bulbs:



And then I bought a headlight housing that was slimmer (4x6 as opposed to the 6x7 on the fiero) that would accept an H4 bulb.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

I also picked up an extra pair of stock headlight buckets that I can chop up. I put all the stuff together and said "hmmm how am I going to make this work"


I want to keep the headlight aiming system as close to stock as possible, so my idea is to mount the headlight housing to a sheetmetal "bracket" or "base" and use the aiming screws to move the headlight housing around.

Take a look at the bracket being made:









So thats the bracket the housing will bolt to.

In this next picture you can see how I slightly modified the original bucket a little:



If you notice, I moved one of the aiming screws to the bottom of the bucket. This is because I will be chopping off about 3 inches or so from the top of the bucket to fit the height profile of the new headlight housing....

I'll continue this as I make more progress in the next few days.

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DougC
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Report this Post06-06-2009 11:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DougCClick Here to Email DougCSend a Private Message to DougCDirect Link to This Post
Oh man I'm really interested in doing this so I'll be watching this thread like a hawk tell me you have more done and more pictures
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Report this Post06-06-2009 11:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87antuzziClick Here to Email 87antuzziSend a Private Message to 87antuzziDirect Link to This Post
Someone post the popcorn munching smiley for me. I can't from my blackberry. I also am watching this
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DougC
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Report this Post06-06-2009 11:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DougCClick Here to Email DougCSend a Private Message to DougCDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 87antuzzi:

Someone post the popcorn munching smiley for me. I can't from my blackberry. I also am watching this


Don't worry, I posted extra in my post for ya!
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doublec4
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Report this Post06-06-2009 11:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
I might be able to get a little more done tomorrow if its not pouring outside. I wish I had a bigger garage.

I'm also searching for a new ballast, I think one of mine is bad :S

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Synthesis
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Report this Post06-07-2009 09:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SynthesisClick Here to visit Synthesis's HomePageClick Here to Email SynthesisSend a Private Message to SynthesisDirect Link to This Post
Are your slim headlights DESIGNED for HIDs?

The bulbs may physically fit, and you may like the difference, but do they have the sharp cutoff built in for the low beams? Are they bi-xenon?

You'll be blinding everyone coming at you with an improper housing and no shield for low beams.

Don't get me wrong.. I like the slim popups, and I think the rectangular lamps will look really good. I am concerned with safety on the road. You need that cutoff in a projector style in order to keep things below oncoming traffic's eye level.

[This message has been edited by Synthesis (edited 06-07-2009).]

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doublec4
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Report this Post06-07-2009 10:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
The headlights are not designed for HID, they are a reflector headlight. I know there is no cut off pattern.

I've seen a lot of HID installs in reflector housings and they do throw light all over the place but I've never considered it to be blinding, even when you're sitting low (in my fiero). I'm going to aim the headlights down a little, and I think with the low height of my car it won't be overly obnoxious to other drivers.

If I feel they are dangerous or if I want to switch back, I'm building these on a spare set of buckets so I can always switch back very easily.

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Synthesis
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Report this Post06-07-2009 12:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SynthesisClick Here to visit Synthesis's HomePageClick Here to Email SynthesisSend a Private Message to SynthesisDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by doublec4:

The headlights are not designed for HID, they are a reflector headlight. I know there is no cut off pattern.

I've seen a lot of HID installs in reflector housings and they do throw light all over the place but I've never considered it to be blinding, even when you're sitting low (in my fiero). I'm going to aim the headlights down a little, and I think with the low height of my car it won't be overly obnoxious to other drivers.

If I feel they are dangerous or if I want to switch back, I'm building these on a spare set of buckets so I can always switch back very easily.


Very cool. Good luck on them, I hope they turn out well and don't scatter too much.
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Daniel
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Report this Post06-07-2009 01:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DanielClick Here to visit Daniel's HomePageClick Here to Email DanielSend a Private Message to DanielDirect Link to This Post
When I am driving my fiero and come across hid reflector retrofits at night I am glad I put in the bi-xenon, as hid reflector retrofits are way worse than high beams. My Bi-xenon hid are even brighter than hid retrofits in hi beam mode and I have no issues using them when people with hid reflector retrofits are blinding me. Some hid reflector retrofits are ok, although they lose output by using 12000k or higher bulbs, or aim the headlight so low that they are useledd for distance.

I now have a plexiglass cover over the front and aluminum cover on the top
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...090219-2-084985.html



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1988 Fiero GT

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GTCONVERSION
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Report this Post06-07-2009 05:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GTCONVERSIONClick Here to Email GTCONVERSIONSend a Private Message to GTCONVERSIONDirect Link to This Post
can you also tell us where your buying your parts and cost ,Thanks
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doublec4
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Report this Post06-07-2009 06:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
So here is today's progress:

I started by cutting down the buckets to the right height profile for the new headlights:



As you can see, it matches the height for the brackets that hold the headlights:



Then I put the trim back on to see if everything fit, and measure out how I have to cut the plastic trim that hides the ugly stuff:



I measured and eye balled it and then cut the plastic trim. Things are starting to look low profile now:



Everything had to be taken apart again:



And then cleaned up and painted:





Now the headlights were installed onto the brackets. I attached them with 4 screws:







I was going to reassemble the entire buckets but two of the aiming screws and their green holders are badly worn. I'll have to take the good ones off my car when I go to install the units. For now, I'll show how I plan on attaching the bracket to the aiming screws.

This is what I came up with for each aiming screw:



As you can see, I used a small spring that will push against the headlight bracket to keep it pressed up against the aiming screw when it is installed. It's almost like a mini coil over:



I may also try to implement the original stock spring that pulls on one corner of the headlight as well. I'll test it out soon

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[This message has been edited by doublec4 (edited 06-07-2009).]

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doublec4
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Report this Post06-07-2009 06:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by GTCONVERSION:

can you also tell us where your buying your parts and cost ,Thanks


Right now this is what I have into it:

Used HID H4 kit: 60$ (found it for sale locally)
4x6 headlights that accept H4 bulbs: 40$ (bought them at a car show)
Original Fiero headlight buckets: 20$ (bought them from another member on PFF)
Sheet Metal: 0$ (had it laying around)
Screws, Little Springs, Washers: 10$ (Home Depot)

Total: 130$ CDN

Thats it so far!

I hope I don't need much more than that to get it all working soon

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Report this Post06-08-2009 12:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FreshjClick Here to Email FreshjSend a Private Message to FreshjDirect Link to This Post
Cool project!

I got housings from http://www.danielsternlight...oducts/products.html

They bolt right in. They are a bit pricey, but they have a very sharp cut off pattern, and do well with my over-wattage bulbs. Aimed properly, it doesn't matter how bright they are, as long as the cut off point is lower then the person looking at them. If you can't get yours working the way you'd like, I highly suggest these. There's also a parking light version that you can use like a DRL if need be.

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doublec4
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Report this Post06-08-2009 02:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Freshj:

Cool project!

I got housings from http://www.danielsternlight...oducts/products.html

They bolt right in. They are a bit pricey, but they have a very sharp cut off pattern, and do well with my over-wattage bulbs. Aimed properly, it doesn't matter how bright they are, as long as the cut off point is lower then the person looking at them. If you can't get yours working the way you'd like, I highly suggest these. There's also a parking light version that you can use like a DRL if need be.



I'd be interested in turning my parking lights (front turn signals) into driving lights/signals if thats possible... do you have any info on that?

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doublec4
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Report this Post06-20-2009 05:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
Sorry this hasn't been updated in a while, but I picked up a new HID kit, just makes wiring real simple. I won't have to cut any wires and that way I can return it to stock much easier.



I will probably update this again tomorrow night hopefully with the finished project if all goes well

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Khw
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Report this Post06-21-2009 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KhwClick Here to Email KhwSend a Private Message to KhwDirect Link to This Post
It will be neat to see this completed .

How are you going to limit the rise hieght of your lights? Is this being done with Gen 1 or Gen 2 motors? Would it be doable with either type motor?

I've played with an old light and gen 1 motor a little. It looks like it uses pressure from the motor to disengage the contacts as it goes up and down. I figured if you moved the stop point for the up cycle you could limit how high the light goes up. I'm just trying to figure out how to move that stop point. I thought of welding a nut in there to use a bolt and locking nut and make it adjustable... But it's aluminum I think. So I'd probably weld a aluminum block in with a drilled and tapped hole. Some day I will get to working on it. Still sanding it down for paint now though.

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[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 06-21-2009).]

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doublec4
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Report this Post06-21-2009 03:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
You don't have to mess with the motors at all. I just shortened the height of the headlight bucket.

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Report this Post06-21-2009 03:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IVANNATINKLEClick Here to Email IVANNATINKLESend a Private Message to IVANNATINKLEDirect Link to This Post
looking very good
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doublec4
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Report this Post06-21-2009 04:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by IVANNATINKLE:

looking very good


thanks I actually just finished them... I'll post some pictures in a little while

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doublec4
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Report this Post06-21-2009 07:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
Finished product !!!

Got everything installed today and snapped some pics for those of interested


This first picture shows the finished bucket:


You can see that I used the stock spring to pull on the the sheet metal bracket I made.


This is the mini "coil over" I like to call it, that was used for the aiming screws:


Here is one of the buckets installed:


Here you can see the difference in height and light from stock. The old headlights were Sylvania Silverstars:


This is both buckets installed... a nice slim pop up look


Here is the wiring end of things. I think I'm going to drill some holes to run the wires through instead of over the weather stripping.


Lastly, a shot with the lights on in the day:


Tonight I need to aim them when its dark, and I'll grab some night shots!

Hope you guys like them!

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Report this Post06-21-2009 08:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IVANNATINKLEClick Here to Email IVANNATINKLESend a Private Message to IVANNATINKLEDirect Link to This Post
looks realy good, nice work... nice budget build great price for new headlights HID headlights
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Report this Post06-21-2009 08:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KhwClick Here to Email KhwSend a Private Message to KhwDirect Link to This Post
Looks good!

I see now, you cut off height on the buckets. I hadn't thought of doing it that way.
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Report this Post06-21-2009 08:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mtownfieroClick Here to Email mtownfieroSend a Private Message to mtownfieroDirect Link to This Post
Nice! How much to make me a pair lol
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doublec4
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Report this Post06-21-2009 08:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mtownfiero:

Nice! How much to make me a pair lol


Thanks for the comments guys.

I don't think I'll ever reproduce these, however, fierofan makes rectangular buckets as well. Might as well just buy from him. I made my own because I'm on more of a budget. Results are the same though!

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Report this Post06-21-2009 10:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for x-thumpr-xClick Here to visit x-thumpr-x's HomePageClick Here to Email x-thumpr-xSend a Private Message to x-thumpr-xDirect Link to This Post
Nice work, that took a little patience to build up I bet. I just installed HID's back into my Fiero again. Still using the bosch H4 conversion set-up but dual beam HID's. It's the one that has a solenoid on the back to pull the bulb closer to the lense when you hit the high beams. I also mounted my hardware inside the headlight area, it's supposed to be waterproof and has all the seals on the connectors too.

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G.T. Fieros

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doublec4
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Report this Post06-21-2009 10:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
Mine only have low beams... they seem more than bright enough even in the low beam setting. They need to be aimed a little lower I think, but heres a night shot:



I'll have to see yours at one of the shows or something

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Report this Post06-21-2009 11:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chrismclubmSend a Private Message to chrismclubmDirect Link to This Post
Very nice work, your fiero looks absolutely awesome, hope to see it on the highway again

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1986 GT Fiero Owner & Enthusiast
For Fiero updates, visit my site http://educatorstop15.com/fieropage.htm

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Report this Post06-22-2009 12:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dan RoSend a Private Message to Dan RoDirect Link to This Post
Those are the only slim lights that I like. They don't look sleepy or high like others.
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quote
Originally posted by doublec4:

Mine only have low beams... they seem more than bright enough even in the low beam setting. They need to be aimed a little lower I think, but heres a night shot:

I'll have to see yours at one of the shows or something



If you ever want to upgrade to dual HID let me now. I found out after buing these on ebay from hong kong, I could get the same thing through a friend @ the same price here locally in scarborough.

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doublec4
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Report this Post06-22-2009 08:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. Before I spend any more money on anything else, I need to fix the suspension up quite a bit

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Report this Post06-22-2009 11:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SynthesisClick Here to visit Synthesis's HomePageClick Here to Email SynthesisSend a Private Message to SynthesisDirect Link to This Post
I would like to see a light pattern shot. Park 25 feet from a light colored wall on level ground, aimed straight at the wall.
Then, park parallel to the wall, 12-18 inches from the wall with the lights shining down the length of the wall.

They look great, and will be super bright for you. I am curious to see how much scatter you get out of the housings.
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doublec4
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Report this Post06-22-2009 06:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:

I would like to see a light pattern shot. Park 25 feet from a light colored wall on level ground, aimed straight at the wall.
Then, park parallel to the wall, 12-18 inches from the wall with the lights shining down the length of the wall.

They look great, and will be super bright for you. I am curious to see how much scatter you get out of the housings.


I'll see what I can get for you in the next few days. I'll have to find a wall I can pull up in front of. My driveway is too steep.

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Report this Post06-22-2009 09:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DougCClick Here to Email DougCSend a Private Message to DougCDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:

I would like to see a light pattern shot. Park 25 feet from a light colored wall on level ground, aimed straight at the wall.
Then, park parallel to the wall, 12-18 inches from the wall with the lights shining down the length of the wall.

They look great, and will be super bright for you. I am curious to see how much scatter you get out of the housings.


I'd be interested in seeing this as well. Been thinking about the Hella conversion that Fiero1Fan started selling in the mall, or actual HIDs for a while now, and I'm just not that inclined to experiment on my own but yours look great, and I never use high beams my self anyway (mostly Highway in moderately populated areas with streetlights...) so this would be a damn good option for me...
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Report this Post06-23-2009 03:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportDirect Link to This Post
Me too. Looks like a great concept. The glare just kind of scares me.
Maybe it's just that one picture.
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doublec4
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Report this Post06-23-2009 06:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
No problem guys, I'll work on it. The glare is inevitable though, I knew that from the start. They're reflectors so...

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doublec4
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Report this Post06-28-2009 11:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
Just a quick update:

So I came to realize that although the top of the headlight housing is labelled "TOP" it is actually the bottom... go figure...

so I took some things apart and reinstalled them upside down and there is a LOT less glare. The glare shield on the bulb is now positioned properly on the bottom.

I'll have to find a wall I can drive up to and snap some pictures of the beam pattern

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Report this Post06-29-2009 12:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mtownfieroClick Here to Email mtownfieroSend a Private Message to mtownfieroDirect Link to This Post
To bad this can only be done with HIDs. I picked up some cheap 4x6 sealed beams to try it with the other day but mounting them would be different/more diffucult. Guess ill just have to get the hids.
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doublec4
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Report this Post06-29-2009 01:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
Essentially, with a 4x6 sealed beam, if they are aimed the same way the stock headlights are, you could relocate the aiming screws to line up with the 4x6's and away you go...

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Report this Post07-02-2009 01:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
I have just read this thread start to finish. I am going to give this a shot for my XTC. I am going to use regular old sealed beams though (keeping the cost down for now - can upgrade later). I am thinking that I can build is exactly like yours with one change. The sealed beams have no "screw bosses" in the back to mount to the bracket you fabbed. I am going to get the chrome metal piece out of a 80's something Chevy truck that surrounds the outside of the headlight and attaches with 4 screws on the outer edge. At first I was thinking about cutting down the stock metal bucket from the Fiero to make it fit the smaller headlight. The more I thought about it, why could'nt I get the metal buckets out of that same 80's something truck and adapt them to the Fiero mechanisim. I suppose the Alignment screws would not align up between the original Fiero mechanisim and the Chevy truck bucket. I could however, "extend" some tabs from the bucket at the side and for the relocated bottom adjuster. It may be easier to do it this way than to fab a complete bracket. Thoughts?????

Doublec4, great thread, great idea. Hope you don't mind a copycat? Immitation is the best form of flattery.......

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doublec4
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Report this Post07-02-2009 01:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
I don't mind if anybody and everybody copies me, thats why I posted it

katatak, I kind of understand what you're saying, but Im not familiar with the chevy truck buckets and all that so I'm having a bit of a hard time visualizing what you're saying... if you post some pictures up with the pieces that you have to start with, everyone here can make some suggestions

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