I just disassembled an NVG-T550 transaxle. This is exactly the same internally as our beloved MG2, but produced in the New Venture Gear plant, rather than the Muncie plant.

I have ALL the internal parts, and am prepared to send the input shaft and 1st output gear to custom gear manufacturers in order to have a more V8 friendly 1st gear cut.

It's no secret that the Getrag's 1st gear is WAY too short to be useful with a V8 or other high torque engine. The 3.50 first, 3.61 final, and 2.05 2nd combine to make a combination that's awkward to use with a high torque engine. 1st gear is over instantly and the engine is WAY down in RPM after the 1-2 shift. Because of the large RPM difference that the 1-2 synchro has to overcome, the 1-2 shift is also very slow. Another side effect of the short 1st is that it's difficult to downshift into 1st gear at any speed higher than a crawl.

I have looked the numbers over and I think that a 3.0 1st gear would suit a V8 Fiero MUCH better than the 3.5 1st gear. With a 3.0 1st, the RPM drops for the 1-2, 2-3, and 3-4 shifts would be almost exactly the same, just like the 4 speeds of old.

Here are the splits and speed in gear info:

code:

---

MG2
Gear  Ratio  Split  Speed(6000 RPM;205/60-15 tire)
1st   3.50          34.87
Split        0.59
2nd   2.05          59.54
Split        0.67
3rd   1.38          88.45
Split        0.68
4th   0.94          129.85
Split        0.77
5th  0.72           169.52

---

With the 3.0 I am proposing, the numbers change as follows:

code:

---

Gear  Ratio  Split  Speed
1st   3.00          40.69
Split        0.68
2nd   2.05          59.54

---

The split is the percentage of shift RPM the engine's turning after a shift. Going from the 3.5 1st to 3.0 1st raised the 1-2 split from 0.59 to 0.68--A dramatic improvement.
With the stock MG2 gearing, a 6000 RPM 1-2 shift puts the engine at 3540 RPM in 2nd.
With the 3.0 first gear, a 6000 RPM shift puts the engine at 4080 RPM--that's 540 RPM higher. I would LOVE to be 500 RPM higher in 2nd after my 1-2 shift.

The taller 1st gear will also make the 1-2 shift faster as it reduces the speed difference that the synchros have to overcome, and it will make it significantly easier to downshift into 1st from a roll.

The two manufacturers I was currently looking at are www.trojon-gear.com www.housemanautosport.com

Does anyone have any other suggestions for a custom gear manufacturer?

The real question: a setup like this would be MUCH cheaper if a few people got on board for it. I haven't gotten quotes yet, but will soon. Who will pay several hundred dollars for a taller Getrag 1st gear?

------------------
'87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc.
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow

Will, Im always impressed with your ability to express yourself with technical information so as a fiberglass guy like myself can come away with a feeling of that I understand what the topic is about. It seems that this is the reason why Archie prefers the Izusu trans rather than the Getrag, I myself prefer the getrag since I run the 3.4dohc engines where the power comes on in the higher rpm range. Thanks and keep up your correspondence for us , Norm.

What does the ratio and split stand for... Like how do you actually get those numbers? Is it the number teeth on the gears or what? I've always wondered how the numbers are found.

Matt

Percocets wore off... I'm not normally up at 3 am...

Thanks, Norm. I try to be as plain and thorough as possible so everyone can understand what I'm tying to do and how it can help them.

Archie uses the Isuzu because it has a 3.35 final drive and thus taller gearing overall. The Isuzu's 1-2 split is actually wider than the Getrag's and its first gear is even shorter.

Fiero Go Fast: The gear ratio is the number of teeth on the output gear divided by the number of teeth on the input gear. It represents the number of turns that the input shaft makes for 1 turn of the output shaft.

The split is the ratio of the gear shifting into divided by the ratio of the gear shifting out of. Getrag 1-2 split is 2.05/3.50 = 0.59; the engine will be turning 59% of shift RPM after the 1-2 shift.
Check out www.howstuffworks.com and look under manual transmissions.

------------------
'87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc.
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-09-2003).]

You know Im in!!

Bump!

JM
THE SBC PUNISHER.
VIN9 , 288 Cams, commander 950 and Direct port in progress!!..

I was thinking about what you said about shifing into first... oddly enough, I used to experience the same thing (can only shift in at a crawl) but for some reason now I can do it at 40! It doesn't even require much effort or anything, it pretty much clicks right in. Now, letting the clutch out at that speed in 1st would be interesting

quote Originally posted by Savagery: Now, letting the clutch out at that speed in 1st would be interesting

Be knowin' you can eat a gear doing that just as if you were torquing and dumping the clutch on take off. Been there and done that in 3rd. I used to enjoy chirping 3rd on a down shift till I eat up a 3rd gear for the second time.

The taller 1st sounds nice, but how about taking it a step further? How about a taller 5th as well?

I would be interested in the better 1st gear, but I really dislike the final drive in the getrag (3.61) and prefer the 3.35 in the Isuzu, but it is not my favorite either.

The 1st gear mechanical advantage (1st gear ratio X final drive ratio)is:
Getrag: 12.64 (3.50*3.61)
Isuzu: 12.50 (3.73*3.35)

Now consider most V8 manual transmissions have 1st gear in the 2.65 range. So for any RWD car to have the same mechanical advantage in first gear they would have to run abour 4.75 gears in the rear... this is pretty much a race only ratio requiring high RPM and minimal torque down low - especially when you have 25" tall tires. No wonder all the V8's just smoke 1st gear.

What we really need is a 5 speed with ratios like:
1st 3.31 (M17 4speed current 1st gear)
2nd 2.18 (MK7 current 2nd gear - 96-99 Isuzu)
3rd 1.45 (MT2 Isuzu current 3rd gear)
4th 1.03 (MT2 Isuzu current 4th gear)
5th 0.72 MG2 Getrag current 5th)

Final Drive 2.97 Custom made

The Engine RPMs would drop between 34 - 30% on all shifts (about 1850 - 1650 rpm). Shifting at 5500 rpm and with 25" tall tires would allow 41 MPH in 1st gear and 2nd would be over at 63, 3rd at 95. Cruise RPM at 70 would be at 2000 RPM.

If someone can make this tranny and make it hold 450 hp, I would be the first in line to pay $1500 for it (maybe even $2000).

The MG2 1st input gear is $125 from www.gmpartsdirect.com
The MG2 input shaft is $277 from www.vintageparts.org
So that's $400 if you bought the stock parts new.
I can't see custom gears being less than $500 for the shaft and gear.
So Slammed and I are in on it! anyone else?

------------------
'87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc.
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow

If you can get an estimated price from the company cutting the gears, let me know. I already have too much money into the trans, but a deeper first would be nice.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: I would be interested in the better 1st gear, but I really dislike the final drive in the getrag (3.61) and prefer the 3.35 in the Isuzu, but it is not my favorite either. The 1st gear mechanical advantage (1st gear ratio X final drive ratio)is: Getrag: 12.64 (3.50*3.61) Isuzu: 12.50 (3.73*3.35)

But that's not all to look at. The Getrag's 1-2 split is 0.59, and the Isuzu's 1-2 split is 0.55. The Isuzu has an even larger RPM drop on 1-2 shift than the Getrag.

quote What we really need is a 5 speed with ratios like: 1st 3.31 (M17 4speed current 1st gear) 2nd 2.18 (MK7 current 2nd gear - 96-99 Isuzu) 3rd 1.45 (MT2 Isuzu current 3rd gear) 4th 1.03 (MT2 Isuzu current 4th gear) 5th 0.72 MG2 Getrag current 5th) Final Drive 2.97 Custom made If someone can make this tranny and make it hold 450 hp, I would be the first in line to pay $1500 for it (maybe even $2000).

Why not a fully custom 6 speed with 3.0, 2.25, 1.70, 1.25, 0.95, and 0.70?
I'm suggesting a (somewhat) economical approach that will fix the Getrag's most glaring (IMO) fault, not a complete replacement of it with someone's ideal.

If the gears you suggest can even be machined to fit, which is rather unlikely, that's a LOT more expense for not much improvement over the MG2 with 3.0... 2nd, 3rd and 4th are virtually the same overall as 2nd, 3rd and 4th in a stock MG2. Better results (slightly narrower 1-2 split) could be had for a lot less trouble with the 3.0 custom first, and a 0.66 custom 5th.

Now, here's where our thoughts diverge. My car is a toy; a daily driven toy, but a toy nonetheless. To that end, tall gear ratios and comfort are less important than performance and driving enjoyment. I once lost a race with a cam & exhaust LS1 SS Camaro when I shifted into 4th and he stayed in 3rd. We had been dead even up to that point. Had I the Quad 4 1.02 4th gear and 3.94 final drive, I would have won that race, or at least held him off to 120+, rather than 90.

Now, if a 3.50 1st and 3.61 final is bad, a 3.50 1st and 3.94 final would be even worse. Hence my desire to have a 3.0 first.

Now if I had a 0.63 5th machined and used it with a 1.02 4th and 3.94 FD, I'd have a somewhat less than desireable, but still not completely horrible 0.62 4-5 split... and since I have no intention of racing past 4th gear, that might not be so bad, although it would sacrifice response at highway speed and end up more like a 4+O arrangement.

So... absent desires for other gears that don't yet exist, who will be in on the 3.0 first gear?

Should I get quotes for a 0.63 5th as well?

------------------
'87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc.
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow

Alright, you can count me in for first gear. Just for $hit$ and giggles, let's see how much fifth will be too.

I would definitely be interested...at least to check the price!

------------------
---"Didn't those catch fire?"---
---"Why didn't you get an MR2?"---
---"The engine is WHERE?"---
---Liking Fiero's is a lonely business---

You've got my ears perked up on the different 5th comment. I question how often I'll even be in first with the Northstar. Will, have you ever launched in second at the track? I'm curious what kind of gains/losses would be associated with some slight clutch slipping and sticking with second for longer. I'd be interested in a different final drive as well, but that wouldn't do anything for the RPM drop between gears. I'm going to have to look at my spreadsheets again to compare the different trannies; my '93 SCX tranny should be ready to get rebuilt (dad's doing me a favor), I'll see if I can't get him to count some teeth and verify the gear ratios I got off the web.

I'm staying tuned, too busy to think about this right now, Will. I'll definitely have more time after another week or two, I'm in the midst of the last couple weeks of the term.

Bryce
88 GT

quote Originally posted by Will: Might be time for an overhaul sometime soon. Sounds like your blocker ring is just about shot. If you ever do let the clutch out at speed in 1st, be VERY SURE that you rev-match before you do! If not, you might be picking up pieces of your transmission off the highway.

Ouch. I obviously have never let the clutch out at that speed, and always try to rev-match on downshifting. The tranny shifts smoothly enough, though, so I don't think I'm going to need any major work anytime soon... right?

Yes, I have done the old "5th-to-3rd-at-50mph" thing and enjoy the little chirp- guess that's out of the picture. Damn.

Yeah... don't do that.

Thanks for the good info, Will. You always have super-informative posts.

I stumbled on this site the other day. I thought it had very good info on gears, esp. the section on gearology, if anyone is interested.

http://bostongear.com

Good info on how much HP different metals can handle in each gear configuration.

They also do custom gears, maybe you want a quote from them also?

I know in a previous thread, you (Will) were going to disassemble a Getrag and take tooth-width measurements and compare to the 4-speed. Wondering if you ever did that?

This is what I came up with on the Muncie.

quote Originally posted by TimGully: My 4-speed is apart right now. Here's some measurements. 1st .80 in 2nd .60 in 3rd .60 in 4th .60 in

quote Originally posted by Nashco: Will, have you ever launched in second at the track? I'm curious what kind of gains/losses would be associated with some slight clutch slipping and sticking with second for longer. I'd be interested in a different final drive as well, but that wouldn't do anything for the RPM drop between gears. I'm going to have to look at my spreadsheets again to compare the different trannies; my '93 SCX tranny should be ready to get rebuilt (dad's doing me a favor), I'll see if I can't get him to count some teeth and verify the gear ratios I got off the web.

What do you need verified?
MG2: we know very well
MY5: MG2 1,2,3,FD; 1.02 4th, 0.81 5th (optional FX3: 3.94 Final drive)
MU1: MG2 3, FD; 3.77 1st, 2.15 2nd, MY5 4,5
MV5: MG2 1,2,3; MY5 4, 0.87(?) 5th, 3.94 FD

Haven't tried 2nd at the strip. I don't think the N* has the torque to pull that off. Don't think the CF clutch would like it. CalKid can do that because he has 1/3 more HP and 1/3 more peak torque, with much more torque out of the hole than a Northstar. A Northstar Fiero benefits from a short first to get it spun up and into its power band quickly... but the MG2 1st is a litte too short and it's a bit counterproductive to get spun up in first, then almost drop out of the powerband on all but the most aggressive 1-2 shifts. With 3.0 1st and 3.94 FD, I will end up with a slightly taller overall 1st, but deeper 2nd and closer 1-2 shift to better keep the engine in its powerband.

------------------
'87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc.
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-10-2003).]

Here is the idea I like the best. Get a 5 spd tranny. Then take all of the 4 gears from a 4 spd and replace them into the 5 spd. Now youve got a mover.

Or a 6spd from a C5

I would be interestedin the gearin to help out the transmissions.

How bout after we get this hurdle, we work on STRONGER internals.

------------------

quote Originally posted by TimGully: My 4-speed is apart right now. Here's some measurements. 1st .80 in 2nd .60 in 3rd .60 in 4th .60 in

Just took these off the NVG-T550 I have apart now:

code:

---

      Width          Teeth
Gear  In     Out     In  Out
1st   wide   0.735   14  49
2nd   0.762  0.648   20  41
3rd   0.713  0.668   24  33
4th   0.600  0.550   35  33
5th   0.568  0.648   43  31
FD    1.303  ??      18  ??

---

So the Getrag has narrower teeth... but we don't know anything about the alloy or heat treatment specs of either transmission.

The limiting width on 1st gear is the output gear. I spent some time investigating the 1-2 synchro and shift fork arrangement... and I think that we might be able to squeeze another 0.100" of width on the 1st output gear. There's ~0.080 gap between the edges of the 1st output gear teeth and the 1-2 shift fork in 1st gear. The shift fork has the surface which engages the shift collar on the 1st gear side, then ~0.040" step to an "as cast" surface. Some machining on the shift fork to take the as cast surface down to even with or possibly stepped out 0.002-0.005 from the machined surface will increase the gap between the edges of the 1st output gear teeth and the shift for to ~0.120", which should allow an extra 0.100" of width on 1st gear.

So it appears to be possible to gain 0.100" of width on 1st gear and increase its theoretical strength by 13%(!), BUT this would require some machining of the 1-2 shift fork for clearance.
Should I ask for a plug-n-play replacement, or go for the extra 0.100", or something in between?

------------------
'87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc.
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-10-2003).]

Will.........You have a great idea to adjust the transmission ratios to suit other engine applications, but be sure that you match, or better the Getrags metallurgy/chemistry, as well as heat treatment. That being done, have the new parts ultrasonically stress relieved/hardened (not very expensive).

I wouldn't venture into this area unless I was positive that the new parts exceeded the strenght of the Getrag parts.

------------------

http://www.cartsys.com/fiero/cal-engine.wav

Hey Calaforina Kid....
I really am a big fan of your Fiero!
I'm interested how long you have been driving it and how many miles it has on the V8 and worked over transmission.

Thanks ManiMack!

Car was converted with this engine/trans original (trans 90,000 miles) back in 1993, approx 35,000 miles since then. Trans (Getrag) was replaced start of 2003, but not because it failed, the failure was owner induced by failing to check for clearance to aftermarket trans case needle bearings installed last season. Trans in the car now got approx 3,500 miles this last season, which is a fully rebuild Getrag with a host of very nice treatments for improved strenght (just for added insurance). If your're going to tear one apart, you might as well do all the neat stuff to it! The Corvette engine only had 6,000 miles on it at the time of the conversion and was fully rebuild with the trick internals, so basically it only has 35,000 miles on it now. Also the horsepower was pumped from about 330 to 400 about 4 years ago by opening the breathing up on the engine and a few more trick parts! Time fails me in my old age, but I think I'm coming up on 5 years of ownership now!

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 12-10-2003).]

quote Originally posted by California Kid: Will.........You have a great idea to adjust the transmission ratios to suit other engine applications, but be sure that you match, or better the Getrags metallurgy/chemistry, as well as heat treatment. That being done, have the new parts ultrasonically stress relieved/hardened (not very expensive). I wouldn't venture into this area unless I was positive that the new parts exceeded the strenght of the Getrag parts.

While Boston and Trojon are general gear manufacturers, Houseman is a motorsports gear specialist who has quite a few motorsports gear sets available and does a lot of custom racing gears. I'm sure he knows how to make gears that are quite strong.

CalKid, I figured you'd be all over the taller 1st gear, from the way you've talked about 2nd gear starts at the strip.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-10-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Will: CalKid, I figured you'd be all over the taller 1st gear, from the way you've talked about 2nd gear starts at the strip.

I'm not a 1/4 mile guy, this car has only been to the drag strip twice since I've owned it, and both times it was just half-hearted fun (no serious effort for low ET, just curiousity). I find that I'm rarely challenged at a light, most of the time it's a 2nd gear roll, which suits me just fine!

Honestly, I like your idea very much, but I've got big $ into the trans right now. I can not even entertain the thought of an unproven speciality part/s going into this trans, I made an exception with the Phantom Posi to spread the torque (hope it wasn't a mistake, but time will tell how it affects other parts in the trans).

Tom

I had a nice long talk with Jamie Houseman at www.housemanautosport.com

The Getrag input shaft is quite complex, and to reproduce it, he would need not just it, both 1st and 2nd output gears and the reverse idler to "trace" and make sure that the new shaft would mesh with them flawlessly. From his description, tracing is quite a time and labor intensive process. He'd also need the parts that splined onto the shaft like the clutch disk and the 3-4 synchro.
He said he could do a custom 5th gear as well, as long as there's room for it in the case, which I will determine after I go back to VA at the end of next week.

Now... the fun part. After hearing that the shaft has two splines, 3 bearing journals, and 3 integral gears, including a helically cut reverse... he estimated $3,000 to do the shaft, 1st output gear and 5th gear pair. He could cut us a 20% price break for 6 units. So if 5 of you have $2400 lying around, we can get this done
If we just do the 1st gear, it would obviously be less... but the largest share of the work would still be in the input shaft, so the largest share of the cost would still remain.

I'll still get quotes from Trojon and Boston, but I don't know how much cheaper they'd be.

------------------
'87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc.
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-11-2003).]

OR... you could get a 4t80e with a 2.96 1st, 1.63 2nd...

Now there's an idea!

CalKid: You work for GM, right? I don't suppose there's anyone you know or anyone with whom you could get in touch who could find a schematic for the Getrag input shaft? Anyone who used to work at the Muncie plant?

Will, why don't you just cut the crap and go work for GM and teach them how to make cars right ?

You're an asset to the forum....thx for all the help.

Sincerely...

quote Originally posted by Will: Now there's an idea! CalKid: You work for GM, right? I don't suppose there's anyone you know or anyone with whom you could get in touch who could find a schematic for the Getrag input shaft? Anyone who used to work at the Muncie plant?

Honestly, I'm so busy at work this time of year, most days are without lunch, no time to spare. Gotta get that 2006 Grand Am replacement design nailed down for first run parts. But here's something better for you:

Getrag Engineering Center
36200 Mound Road
Sterling Heights, MI 48310
Phone: 586-939-7700
Contact: Bahman Haghshanas, Vice President of Engineering, E-Mail: bhaghshanas@getragusa.com

Make sure you report back to us now, ya hear!!!!
They just may have parts on the shelf that fit???

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 12-10-2003).]

Thanks. I'll look into that. I already emailed New Venture about it.

Well, I spent a couple hours building a new and improved spreadsheet to see the advantages of different gear combos...then find that Will's got us a steal of a deal at 3 grand.

I honestly don't see the extra expense of a custom first gear being justified. You could use the W-body second to improve the 1-2 split from .59 to .63, but then the 2-3 split becomes .63 from .67 before. Obviously if we have to make a sacrifice between the 1-2 and the 2-3, we'd rather take a hit on the 1-2, as it's less crucial. I think the best solution is to either deal with it, or add boost. A turbo will fix that powerband just fine, and for about the same cost as a few custom gears.

Seriously though, a .6ish 5th really would be nice. Bring cruising RPMs down from about 3100 to about 2600, which would be nice on the NVH side of things...who knows how it would affect mileage, I'm assuming it would be the same or better.

Will, I'm going to verify the gearing on the '93 SCX tranny, as there the validity of the info on the net was questioned in this thread. I'm going to be prepping it for a rebuild (the reason I'm tearing it apart, NOT just to count gears ), then waiting on $ to afford the bearing kit and maybe synchros depending on what it looks like. I also had some things I was going to check out, as I've never got to investigate the 282 internals. I've played a lot with motorcycle trannies at work, I'm a little out of touch with synchros.

I always thought to get a helical gear cut, the same machine was used as straight cuts, but the angle of the part was changed. Is that incorrect? I didn't think it cost any more to cut helical gears, you just need a much better bearing and case to take the side loads.

I can't remember which gears are part of the shaft on the input and output shafts. Isn't it first for the input shaft and the final drive for the output shaft? Will, care to remind me? Sorry, my service manual is still in the box from moving.

Bryce
88 GT

Well... you can't use the W-body 2nd without using the W-body 1st... unless you have a custom input shaft cut, which is what sent me to aftermarket gear manufacturers in the first place. I figured that if I must have a custom shaft cut, I might as well get the gearing I really want. I don't guess you looked at the RPO sticker on that '93 SCX from which you got your transmission? I'm not too sure of applications, but once I finish the rather tedious task of filling in my complete part number spreadsheet, I'll take the interesting P/N's to the parts guy at the dealership and get applications.

Yeah, 1st, 2nd, and reverse are integral with the input shaft. That's one of the things that would make it difficult to manufacture: it has 3 integral gears, which requires more tracing, which drives the labor cost WAY up.

------------------
'87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc.
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-11-2003).]

I love the idea of a custom 1st gear, but would not consider it for $3000, or even $2000. For that kind of money, I'd rather have stock ratios in a stronger transmission.

Now if you can get the better ratios in somehting that can handle a 400 HP beating on a regular basis, then we're talking worth $2-3K.

Great work, btw, Will!

quote Originally posted by Will: I don't guess you looked at the RPO sticker on that '93 SCX from which you got your transmission?

Nope, I got the tranny from mrfiero (Mike Valentine), he got it from a junkyard. It had the W41 high output option on it, as well, but that's the limit of my knowledge on the car. Sorry dude.

Bryce
88 GT

quote Originally posted by Nashco: Nope, I got the tranny from mrfiero (Mike Valentine), he got it from a junkyard. It had the W41 high output option on it, as well, but that's the limit of my knowledge on the car. Sorry dude.

I just picked up one of those from an I-Pull-It yard. The W41's were EXTREMELY rare, and AFAIK, all had the FX3 3.94 FD option, as well as the MV5 transmission (at least the car I got my engine/trans from had these). I'll probably put the Q4 back together with MG2 gearing, drop it on an '88 cradle, and install it in an '84 I've had out back for a while. Maybe then I'll be able to sell it and get it out of my yard.

------------------
'87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc.
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow

quote Originally posted by Will: I just picked up one of those from an I-Pull-It yard. The W41's were EXTREMELY rare, and AFAIK, all had the FX3 3.94 FD option, as well as the MV5 transmission (at least the car I got my engine/trans from had these). I'll probably put the Q4 back together with MG2 gearing, drop it on an '88 cradle, and install it in an '84 I've had out back for a while. Maybe then I'll be able to sell it and get it out of my yard.

LOL, that's about the only way to get rid of an '84, isn't it?

Mike knew what he had; I believe he pulled the cams, perhaps some other engine parts. I don't know if he ever sold them, I'm assuming he didn't have too hard of a time getting rid of them. Those cams are supposed to be like gold...I don't understand why, if they're that good, getting an aftermarket cam manufacturer to make some shouldn't be hard.

Bryce
88 GT