Posted by 1FST2M6;

"must really take alot to threaten somone over the internet... it is his board and he can do what he wants. he never askes for $ and usually keeps the riff raff out."

I agree. Cliff wrote;

"Ed, you have just gone too far. I'll be in the States in two weeks. Expect to be contacted then."

I haven't threatened Cliff or anyone in here. Now did Cliff mean that he would have someone 'contact' me, or that he would do it himself? Did he imply physical violence, property damage, or something litigious? He didn't specify, so can I assume the worse? Besides, how could he have meant litigious contact when he isn't running a commercial venture here? In order to sue, there must be damages. If he could argue punitive damages for mental distress relating to me participating in his forum for which I'm not banned, then he's (or his lawyers are) good. I think I've successfully argued that Cliff did not mean litigious contact with his threatening statement. I think two things are true; first, he meant physical or property damage. Second, he will not do anything, and if he does, the most he's capable of is property damage. Generally speaking, people who are going to act don't spout off. Cliff sure has a lot of cheerleaders behind him though. Seems that practically the entire forum is backing him. I wonder what percent of them actually have a good understanding of how this started? Good thing I'm not the kind of person that hinges my self-perception around what others think of me.

Still think you're in debate class, huh? You can't win this one. Every time you post you just look more desperate. Have you seen anybody jump in on your side lately? Sometimes when it seems like everybody is against you it's because you're WRONG.

I'm suprised your user id still works. How do you explain that? Kinda goes against your theories.

Eds: You had your chance. Slink off somewhere else, come back when you have something reasonable to say.

quote Originally posted by EdsB52: Cliff sure has a lot of cheerleaders behind him though.

I'm one of his biggest cheerleaders! Go, Cliff!!!

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'Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.'

MM

That's it. I have just read your most recent foolishness
Eds: **** off. No-one likes you here. In the past 2 days, the only thing you have accomplished is to piss off the moderator of this forum, and 99.9% of the people here. You have this delusion that you are in the right. Think again. Every word that crosses the screen from you has proven even more that you are a stupid self-righteous trouser-weasel. Do this somewhere else, where people care about what you have to say.
-NO-ONE cares about Cliffs financial position in this forum. You can't use that as a weapon. We all (except you) enjoy this place and what it has to offer. I don't care if cliff makes money.
-NO-ONE respects your feelings on these petty posts. You have turned from a respected forum member into a Troll.
-NO-ONE Agrees with your self-centered anti-forum statements. Yeah, like we're all going to gang up on Cliff and have the forum executed. For you. Dream on, ass-bandit.
-NO-ONE Cares about the argument. Worse ones have happened, and we pick our sides, fight, then continue. You however, have targeted the MODERATOR of a forum. In addition to being the MODERATOR, he also arguably the most-liked and respected member of the forum. I would side with him even IF I hadn't read your childish posts. You are truly a dumb-ass.

Who up for a Mike's Hard Lemonade?

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1988 Hawaiin Orchid Coupe
AIM: GalenRPG

Cliff, Please do not shut the forum down because of this crap.

quote Originally posted by DRH: Still think you're in debate class, huh? You can't win this one. Every time you post you just look more desperate. Have you seen anybody jump in on your side lately? Sometimes when it seems like everybody is against you it's because you're WRONG. I'm suprised your user id still works. How do you explain that? Kinda goes against your theories.

I know I can't win this one, nor do I want to. I just want to state my point, you guys want to win, and that’s why you ban together. Also there is apparently a fear of this club being taken away so you feel if you join Cliff and Archie that it won't happen. Not real brave, but a good idea.

Sometimes when everyone is against you it is because you are wrong, I agree. And sometimes it's because a more attractive agenda exists. Many people in this forum are afraid that Cliff will remove this club. Is that a reason to rally around him regardless of the facts? Yes. Doesn't mean anyone in specific is right, just that the agenda overwhelms the facts.

Someone emailed me this morning with a few subsequent emails. Someone posted that my questions were valid a couple hours ago. Is that recent? Of the more than 2,000 members, how many have jumped on the bandwagon? A fraction of .1%. Is that really damning?

He then wrote;

"I'm suprised your user id still works. How do you explain that? Kinda goes against your theories."

Oh, contraire, Cliff looks bad for not answering why he protected Archie but not Lisa, and would look even worse if he removed my user ID. Not to say he won't, as his cheerleaders are all in line, but an objective group would certainly be questioning his motives.

The forums gone, let it go & Go Away. You helped kill the one thing that helped fiero nuts around the world come together, for that I hope the fiero gods forever damn you

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1988 Hawaiin Orchid Coupe
AIM: GalenRPG

Ed,
Are you PAYING for this Forum???
Have you ever offered to pay for this or any forum???
Are you even involved with this forum other than bull**** like this???
No
No
No

Hmmmmmmm......

I rest My Case

Thanks Cliff!!!!!!!!!

Cliff *has* closed the forum and I'm still his #1 cheerleader. If you get a chance to read this reply, please do me a favor and abstain from posting here again until you change your attitude. I hope you've read Cliffs' new opening page. He hasn't made any money here, he's busted his ass for a long time and gained nothing from it (financially), and he's tired of the BS. I can't blame him.

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'Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.'

MM

quote Originally posted by Mach10: That's it. I have just read your most recent foolishness Eds: **** off. No-one likes you here. In the past 2 days, the only thing you have accomplished is to piss off the moderator of this forum, and 99.9% of the people here. You have this delusion that you are in the right. Think again. Every word that crosses the screen from you has proven even more that you are a stupid self-righteous trouser-weasel. Do this somewhere else, where people care about what you have to say. -NO-ONE cares about Cliffs financial position in this forum. You can't use that as a weapon. We all (except you) enjoy this place and what it has to offer. I don't care if cliff makes money. -NO-ONE respects your feelings on these petty posts. You have turned from a respected forum member into a Troll. -NO-ONE Agrees with your self-centered anti-forum statements. Yeah, like we're all going to gang up on Cliff and have the forum executed. For you. Dream on, ass-bandit. -NO-ONE Cares about the argument. Worse ones have happened, and we pick our sides, fight, then continue. You however, have targeted the MODERATOR of a forum. In addition to being the MODERATOR, he also arguably the most-liked and respected member of the forum. I would side with him even IF I hadn't read your childish posts. You are truly a dumb-ass.

Are you really going to speak for everyone in here? By your literacy, I don't think you're qualified to write a check for an electric bill.

In the past two days? I got back from Vegas late last night, are you reading posts that aren't there?

Now you're going to speak for me? I do enjoy this forum and most of the people in it. And because 'no one' (in your words) agrees with me, I should adopt your position? Because in your words 'I attacked the moderator' I should go away? If you knew anything about the history of this issue(s), you would realize that I've never mentioned his name until he pulled one of my threads off the forum. You can blindly bow down to authority without questioning, but I'm not made of that.

quote Originally posted by EdsB52: You can blindly bow down to authority without questioning, but I'm not made of that.

Cliff has the AUTHORITY to do whatever he wants, after all, it IS his forum. What part of that don't you understand? If you didn't like something that Cliff has done, keep this offline and email him about it or run along.

[This message has been edited by Tigger (edited 07-03-2001).]

My final saying in this. I have indeed closed the forum. That's number one. You can read the reason for it when you try to access the main page.

Secondly: Ed, you seriously need to get your head checked. You are one paranoid dude. First you see a secret alliance between Archie and me (I'm sure Archie will have a good laugh about that, unfortunately I was not amused), now you are accusing me of threathening you. Get a life.

And I was learning so much about a car that I truly love. Why do some people feel the need to destroy what other people have created? Cliff and Archie are not in business together, they just happen to share a love for a car that is getting more rare everyday. Today is truly a sad day. Who will new fiero lovers learn from now? We are few and far between.

Oh man, I can't believe this has come to this. As many people from this forum who know me (Roger, Lisa, Denny, Scott, Corinne and so on...their forum names are pretty useless now) know that I probably don't have a negative bone in my body however I have managed to get quite ticked off by witnessing what has occurred over the past 24 hours. It's a bigger loss than some probably realize. I know that I have become good friends with some of the people from here, and have received much help (and parts) for my Fiero over the past year or so.

Ed....before you go talking about not bowing down to authority...go spend some time in a country where you don't have that choice for a while. Then lecture us on free speech/free will and how things should work okay?

When it comes down to it, on this board it's Cliff's choice and we all have to live with it....I know I will. 99% of us realized that when we joined this forum.

I'm sure you will post something to debate what I have said, and that's fine. However, this will be the last post from me on this subject, hopefully everyone can be man enough to put this behind them and move on, with or without the forum. Is it really so hard to just let this go?

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Ken S.
'87GT and '86SC
See them at http://homepage.mac.com/kjslish/Fiero.html
Western PA Fiero Club - www.westpennfiero.org

One last request before I lose one of the most valuable things in my life. Please post all of the info you can find on this EdB52 guy publicly. His home address and phone number would be enough, and this could be obtained through his ISP since his IP is logged. Thats all I ask...

Thanks

I'm glad something is finally being done about annoying people on this Forum. It's too bad that some had to wreck it for the rest of us. My husband enjoyed coming home from work, turning on the computer and sitting on the Forum all night helping others with their cars. He's a GM technican and he brought home Fiero shop manuals to help people trouble shoot their vehicles.

How this Fourm turned into a conspiracy is news to me. I agree with Cliff in the fact that those who choose to get upset at people they don't know or whom they have NEVER met, should indeed get their head examined!!!

Ed. The fact of the matter is that Archie and Cliff are indeed two different individuals. I HAVE seen pictures of them both. No resemblance whatsoever. I was on this forum for quite a while before Archie joined, and had even communicated with him via a few e-mails. Just not the same person.
As for Cliff's "hidden agenda"?
The last I heard was that his digital instruments were not even available. Didn't know that had changed. He certainly hasn't felt the need to advertise them too awfully much. If you had been here for a while before you started the paranoid rant, you would have realized that.
Anyway, It now appears that the Forum is shut down, so all I can say is "Thanks a Pantload".

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Raydar - aka Steve

Black 88 Formula.
Red 88 Duke coupe. "The Project"
88 Formula parts car. "The Donor"

quote Originally posted by Monkeyman: Cliff *has* closed the forum and I'm still his [b]#1 cheerleader. If you get a chance to read this reply, please do me a favor and abstain from posting here again until you change your attitude. I hope you've read Cliffs' new opening page. He hasn't made any money here, he's busted his ass for a long time and gained nothing from it (financially), and he's tired of the BS. I can't blame him. [/B]

Monkeyman, you've always been very reasonable and rational in here, and still seem to be. Tell me why you think (know) the forum is gone. If this forum is gone, is it reasonable to blame it on this incident? I mean if someone is involved in something that they plan on staying with for some time, one incident won't dissuade them. If he pulls this it's because he was going to anyway. Look at how this issue originated. Archie posted an advertisement for his stuff; I proposed a problem exists with any engine that produces massive torque and the marriage to the 2 available transmissions. He sharply disagreed and attacked me, club members blindly jumped in. I assembled a list of these folks, entered them, and the list was swiftly removed. Let's talk about the substantive issues here and get along, or not. I really want this forum to stay, as I write posts on it everyday, but if it goes my life goes on. The hate mail is rolling in as people are slamming the crap out of me. Does anyone think they're getting to me?

Ok, one more thing then. First of all, Ed is not the ONLY reason I felt I needed to shut down the forum. Second, please don't make threats against him! Going after him will not solve anything and is *not* the reason why I posted links to his thread on the shut-down page. As a matter of fact, I will remove those links right now because it is not fair to direct all your anger towards him.

Eds: I'm sure that you are making your parents real proud standing up for what you believe in. A martyr to a cause, huh? I felt that I was representing the masses quite accurately, given the sentiments provided...

What exactly are you made of?

I stand by my statements, bad grammar(?) included.

FYI: I can so write a cheque to the electrical company. Is that the best you got on me? Why don't you show the world how articulate you are and point out my mistakes. At least you'll impress your grade-school teachers.

In the meantime, I invite everyone who is serious about helping Cliff return some semblance of order to join me in O/T in the thread: "Discussion: How to bring back our beloved haunt"

Has this Ed retard be banned yet? If not I must ask why. Like has been said so many times, He's obviously crossed the line, and should not be allowed here. If only his mommy knew.....

I did however get the biggest kick outta this guy try to tell Cliff how to run his forum. Acusing him of advertising on his own forum. Hmm...Yeah, I guess its not his place to advertise here since its not like he pays for it or anything...Oh wait, He does pay for it, doesn't he? So Ed, whats so wrong with him advertising on his own forum? I see no problem with try to recoupe some of the massive expenses associated with operating a forum of this magnitude.

I think Mach10 put it pretty damn well...

since I am a daily poster in this forum I would just like to throw my 2 cents in...

1) I don't understand what the problem is with advertising. He gives us this wonderful place to enjoy our favoite car together...for the big price of FREE! I don't care if he's making 1000 dollars a day....which he's not....he created this why shouldn't he be able to at the very least explore avenues to help ofset the costs.
2) About him censoring....ITS HIS FORUM! If you have a better idea for a board then by all means go for it. All I'm saying is this is like his house he has the right to set the rules. If you come in my home and say something I don't like I can throw you the hell out. You can cry about free speech all you want but you'll be doing it on the curb. This isn't a forum ran by some goverment agency. Freedom of speech doesn't apply. This is ran by a private individual that has the right to cut what ever he wants. I'm not saying this as a threat but if you don't like it leave. The rest of us enjoy this sight exactly as it is. I don't understand how 1 person would want to ruin something so many people enjoy. Their our some other car sights that I have been on that I didn't like so I left! it's as simple as that.

finnaly I hope you change your mind but if you don't I would just like to say Thank you cliff for your time and money that you invested in this board without any hope of a return.

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Hey Mr. Ricer come over here and tell me how your stickers make you faster.....

That is one of the 'first' things I've heard that was a good anolgy hehe

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1988 Hawaiin Orchid Coupe
AIM: GalenRPG

Ed--First of all, thank you for your compliment. I try my best to be rational here in my 2nd home. Second, I won't continue any discussion on this subject here on the forum. I'd rather take it to email. I'm not scared of what you may or may not say. I stand behind every word I type whether it's public or private. I just want this nonsense to stop. Cliff has proven that he can and will eliminate the forum if he so chooses. I'm the last person to wish that, so...I'd be more than happy to discuss anything you want but I won't discuss anything with you here. This only promotes flames, right or wrong.

Feel free to email me at: dandc1@hoosierlink.com .

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'Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.'

MM

..

[This message has been edited by SteveJ (edited 07-03-2001).]

Boy! I leave for a few hours , then get back online and all kinds of ---- has taken place. Going back to see what happened has just told me that this EDs52, or whatever ,is only 15 years old, so I'd just say ignore him!
Thanks Cliff for keeping things open for us Fiero Nuts that need Tech support sometimes!!

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88GT auto,88Formula T-Top,86GT 4spd

Ummmmmm...What in the hell have I been missing????????????

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Loki
ICQ# 16477998

I miss one day and the world practically ends, sheesh.

quote Originally posted by Monkeyman: [b]I'm one of his biggest cheerleaders! Go, Cliff!!! [/B]

how big [I]ARE[/] you, monkeyman?

Eds, I gotta say that I am very confused about something. What exactly is your agenda? I mean. what do you truly hope to gain at this stage of the scenario? Do you think that by constantly hammering the point that you are a "victim" in this case is finally going to sink into the minds of the hundereds of people who enjoy this forum and snap us out of our "subserviant" daze? Hate to blow a perfectly good messiah complex, but t ain't gonna happen. No flame, just fact.

You asked the rhetorical question, "Do people think they are getting to me?" to which I answer a definative yes. Why else have you turned into a total post whore about this? I think it's obvious you have some definate control issues.

Now, do I think that you should be banned because you ran afoul of some folks? No, I've done it myself and I'm very glad that I've repeatedly been given the ortunity to redeem myself. BUT I feel that you are a very angry person who would benefit from taking some time to restack your priorities. Is it that important for you to have your control that you are willing to risk depriving others of a pleasure? Pretty selfish.

Now I'm sure,based on your previous actions, that you will give your thesaurus a workout with colorful denegrations of my intellect, genealogical pedigree, or, your favorite, my sexual preference (Freudists in the house go hey!) but I have a good sense of self worth and I'm not inclined to further feed your ego-driven rants. I just leave you with this one thought... Get professional help.

FieroSTETZ--Ever seen "Mighty Joe Young"?

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'Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.'

MM

Is this starting to feel like stupid, immature high school bullsh*t to anyone else?

Boy did I pick the wrong night to work 3rd shift...

i am on my honeymoon and have missed a whole lot a somethin going on... fortunatly.

heck, i haven't even taken the time to read this.

look, whoever youare... lay off of Cliff and Travis! or anyone else for that matter!!

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hoop
Red '86 GT 5 speed
*Black '86 SE Automatic

I personally believe Monkeyman could stomp on stimpy, step on his tail with his big monkey foot. hehe

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"To whom it may concern, The preceeding message was the opinion of this person and not of this forum. If you do not like it. Oh well"

True. I could, but if you've seen the movie (not the trailer), you'd know that MJY is a very gentle giant. Just don't mess with his bananas.

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'Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.'

MM

Well........

all I have to say is.... get over is Eds... you made a mistake, you paid the consequences. You posted, it got pulled off, for a reason. Knowing Cliff from what I read, I know he won't pull somethin off unless there is good reason. So Eds, grow up, you screwed up, you got the heat from it.

The Dealer

I have not read any of the actual threads where all this stuff went down, however I have seen a lot of the reactions... my advice?

Lets everyone get over it already (and I mean everybody... this doesn't look like a one or two member problem here!). Pointing fingers, making acusations, and wild speculations isn't helping a thing). If you have a problem with someone else on the board... take it to a a private chat, or email or something. Quit wasting forum space. I am also sure Cliff would be glad to sort out any differences with a member here, but doing it out in the community of the forum is the wrong spot. Again, a private discussion is appropriate.

Its a Fiero forum, so lets all get back to our beloved Fiero's!

Peace!

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John
AOLIM: Fformula88

1988 Fiero Formula
1985 Fiero SE 2M6