Here is a collection of info I have put together for the project.

The Plan:

To install two Suzuki Hayabusa 1300cc engines in the Fiero. They will be mounted longitudinally in the engine bay and will be connected together with drive chains. There will be a short driveshaft connecting the engines to a '95 E36 M3 3.15:1 LSD differential. Custom halfshafts with M3/Fiero ends will be fabricated.

The specs:

2550 lbs
mid engine/rear drive
6-speed sequential transmission
2.6L 8 cylinder
10,800 RPM
350 HP
210 TQ

For comparison an S2000 ('00-03) is a lightweight, small displacement, high revving, hight HP, low TQ vehicle.

2800 lbs
front engine/rear drive
6-speed manual transmission
2.0L 4 cylinder
9000 RPM
240 HP
153 TQ

10,800 RPM redline, 275/40/17 rear tires, 3.15:1 LSD diff

9000 RPM redline, 225/50/16 rear tires, 4.11:1 LSD diff

Notice that even though no specs are the same both cars have the same overall 1st gear ratio. Both cars will hit 53 MPH at 9000 RPM in 1st gear. Given the weight and power advantage the Fiero should be very quick.

The S2K has a peak of 136 WTQ at 6500 RPM while the Fiero will have 136 WTQ below 3000 RPM and a peak of 188 WTQ at 7500 RPM.

The S2k has a peak of <200 WHP at 8000 RPM while the Fiero will have >200 WHP from 6000 RPM and up with a peak of 300 WHP at 9500 RPM.

As you can see from the graphs the Fiero will be a rocket from ~40 to 160 MPH. Acceleration times will be based on how fast you can shift.

A side affect of the lighter weight engine/trans package, aside from the obvious power/weight ratio, is that the car will have a weight distribution very close to 50/50.

The cost will be ~$7500
5000 for both engines/transmissions
500 for M3 diff
2000 for fabrication and misc parts

And if 300 WHP gets boring I can always add 8 psi to each engine (no internal mods) for >550 WHP!!!

Teardown pics.

Obligatory "standing in the empty engine bay" pic.

OK, just so I'm tracking, 2 motorcycle engines, right?

Two transmissions, what happens if one goes into first and the other second?
What about reverse?
2 clutches?

Interesting idea, but how are you going to deal with these issues?

John Stricker

Thank you for bringing up these points.

The transmissions are sequentially shifted so it will be much easier than shifting two H-pattern boxes. There will be two "Ls" upsidedown and back to back forming a "T" handle shifter. This will allow the transmissions to be shifted simultaneously but also allow them to be shifted independently should they become out of sync.

Reverse is not a high priority since this will not be a daily driver but I have thought about it. The current plan is to utilize a high torque starter (diesel truck?) that will mate with a ring gear on the short driveshaft between the left engine and the diff.

The Hayabusa is equipped with a hydralic clutche so I plan on fitting a distribution block in between the two clutches and the Fiero hydralic line. I will need to experiment with different master cylinder sizes but I think it is doable.

A "tug of war" dont sound good on a chain at 10,000 RPM How do you plan to synk the two engines?
The best minds in the world have wondered how to put two of them engines together with one engine block but came up with the conclusion that there are WAY to many moving parts to keep it working reliably at a RPM range that high.
Man I would LOVE to see it work. If you do do it post MANY pic's and Video's

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Wowsers, I thought you were kidding until I saw all the well-researched information and pictures!! If you can make it work, this will be really awesome! The issues mentioned are of concern, but consider that there was a time when there were issues installing a 350 in a Fiero.

Good luck!! Wow, this is cool; yes, post lotsa pics and stuff.

Very intriguing, and it does look like you've done your homework.

However I agree with the others when I say: That's a lot of moving parts. I'd also die without reverse - what would you do at a parking lot...push it back and hop in quickly?

Anyway, I'd love to see this happen. It's be the first of its kind in a Fiero, and quite impressive

I think it's a very ambitious project! Best of luck to you!

Just some concerns you might address is that you will have very little low end torque to get the car moving. The clutches and indeed, the drivetrains in general were designed to support collectively 900lbs of bike not 2500lbs of car. Slipping the clutches to get it up into a good torque curve will only further facilitate wear. You might have already mentioned a solution above. I don't think you will have to many issues with your drive chain. You might consider using a chain from a transverse automatic transaxle however.

Anyway, neat project and good luck!

maybe i'm forgetting soemthing - but don't hayabusa engines have a drive chain going from the crank to the tranny then from the tranny to the wheels..
by not link the two cranks with a chain and use only 1 tranny -

as for the power potential.. there are people claiming up to 750whp out of a turbo stroker hayabusa

definitely an ambitious & intriguing project - I know there's a company in the UK (Radical Extreme Sports Cars) actually building a small (2.6L?) V8 from two Hayabusa motors... they're intended for use in a spec race car and are expected to run approx 372hp. - also mentioned were a larger 3.0L version expected to produce over 500hp!!

Also of interest would probably the the Tiger Z100 (also also UK project) - it's basically a Caterham/Lotus 7 chassis running twin Suzuki (GXSR -1000) engine/gearboxes. But they split the power front & rear (so shifting the gearboxes independently changes the front/rear bias of the power distribution). They also use the mentioned "split T" style shifter. Check 'em out: www.tigerracing.com

There are also discussions around the 'net of other cars (notably an Ultima GTR) being built utilizing a twin 'busa setup as well... it's definitely worth looking into (especially to see how others are mating the engines & drivetrains) -

Best of luck to 'ya - as it'd be quite a screamer once you get it moving... you'll definitely want to look into a "weight loss" program to bring the car's weight down to a usable level! Keep us posted!

The Hayabusa does not use a chain to link engine to trans, it is one unit.

I will have more torque pushing less weight with the same overall 1st gear ratio VS an S2000.

I do not plan on doing any 0-60 or 1/4 mi passes so the clutches should hold up fine. I have been looking into lockup clutches for the high HP turbo bikes just in case.

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=BF43FAA9-B909-469D-A6F9-B2B341D5 151F&kw=25&p=0

x2 = 1400 hp fiero!?

[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 08-01-2005).]

In the early days of dragster racing some thought that two engines would provide better performance than one. On those installations the engines would be laid back to front and coupled by a chain. However, those experiments were not successful as weight and synchronization were major stumbling blocks. Two engines actually provided slower 1/4 mile times than dragsters equiped with one large heavily worked engine. However, I wish to encourage you as your project is totally unique and you deserve high praise for this monumentous engineering effort. . Hopefull you can silence the critics by achieving strong performance.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds -Best
Engine Controls, ECM goodies, Chip
re-programming & odd electronics stuff

Tommy Ivo buit multiengine dragters. I think he went as far as an 4 wheel drive 4 engine one. I found a link to this :
http://www.buicks.net/misc/tommy_ivo.html

THIS should be interesting... nice fiero too, I've never seen pictures posted.

Syncing the two engines might be easier if you boost them both off each other. Left engine's turbo feeds the right engine and vise versa. It would bring them together a bit.

Not going to turbocharge them.........YET.

Thanks for all the support guys. I will be sure to keep you updated as I make progress on the project.

hhehehehe neat idea.

At the Goodwood festival of speed they ran the single engined megabusa and an ultima with two turbo charged Hyabusa engines. The single engined megabusa was quicker as the guy in the Ultima couldnt stop it from spinning most of the way up the climb!

The Hyabusa for the Radical SR3 was developed by a small company local to me. In the summer of 2003 they took it to the Nurburgring and broke the outright lap record by 13seconds.

They also designed and built a 325hp V8 using their own bottom end with Hyabusa heads weighing in at a whopping 134kg!!!!

Keep us posted.

Cheers
PK

[This message has been edited by PK (edited 08-03-2005).]

another option.. link them through a differential - and use dampened sprockets for the chains - should eliminate problems with them fighting eachother

quote Originally posted by 268 GT: The Hayabusa does not use a chain to link engine to trans, it is one unit. I will have more torque pushing less weight with the same overall 1st gear ratio VS an S2000. I do not plan on doing any 0-60 or 1/4 mi passes so the clutches should hold up fine. I have been looking into lockup clutches for the high HP turbo bikes just in case.

something has to link the clutch to the transmission input shaft - I know the trans case and engine case are one unit - but it doesn't mean you have to spin both transmission gearsets

double posted by mistake and was unable to delete.

[This message has been edited by 268 GT (edited 08-03-2005).]

did you happen the to read the article in "modified" magazine a few months back (forgot which issue but i can try to find it if you want to look for a back issue)? they were talking about some british company that was using two busa's sharing a single crank like a small v8. pretty good article, couple a pages long with some points on torque curves and redline issues as they compare bettween a motorcycle and car (power to weigth concerns mostly i think). might be worth browsing.

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Phil T.

start where you are,
use what you have,
do what you can. arthur ashe

HI all,

You definetly get a plus for creativity.!! Good work, and I can't want to hear how she runs....Or is that rides......

edit: I just relized what your username means! Thas cool as heck!! For those who don't know, ferrari names most of their cars like this..... 2.6 litre 8 cylinder, so you get 268 gt.....

[This message has been edited by pavo_roddy (edited 08-04-2005).]

quote edit: I just relized what your username means! Thas cool as heck!! For those who don't know, ferrari names most of their cars like this..... 2.6 litre 8 cylinder, so you get 268 gt....

You got me

Wow.

Go! Go! We want video when you get it done, lots of video.

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Huh?

quote Originally posted by 268 GT: Please elaborate on this. I can't picture what you are describing but it sounds interesting. Are you talking about adding a second differential between the two engines using the output shafts as input shafts and the input shaft as an output shaft? MAY be a possibility if I used a low numerical ratio diff (2.35 etc) between the engines and a higher numerical ratio diff (4.55 etc) for the final drive. Too bad I have NO space in the engine bay for this to be a feasible option Not to mention the addititional parasitic losses subtracting even more RWHP.

basicly but more of a custom job that does not use a ring and pinion - since its not necessary in this application - since they "should" be running at the same speed and not different once it could be an inline dry differential using the spyder gears out of a standard fwd differential.. it should only have the driveline loss caused by the chains themselves

if you are interested in persuing it then i can model something up in CAD for you (mechanical designer for a living) (come to think of it a small fwd diff could be modified to do the job)

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 08-04-2005).]

^^^ if you have some spare time I would appreciate it. Sounds interesting.

Again, it may not physically fit in the space I am working with though.

quote Originally posted by Philphine: did you happen the to read the article in "modified" magazine a few months back (forgot which issue but i can try to find it if you want to look for a back issue)? they were talking about some british company that was using two busa's sharing a single crank like a small v8. pretty good article, couple a pages long with some points on torque curves and redline issues as they compare bettween a motorcycle and car (power to weigth concerns mostly i think). might be worth browsing.

Psst... did you notice the link for "Radical Extreme Sports Cars" noted above?

quote Originally posted by MinnGreenGT: definitely an ambitious & intriguing project - I know there's a company in the UK (Radical Extreme Sports Cars) actually building a small (2.6L?) V8 from two Hayabusa motors... they're intended for use in a spec race car and are expected to run approx 372hp. - also mentioned were a larger 3.0L version expected to produce over 500hp!!

Also, PK mentioned that he lives near the place that produces that engine...

Here's a link to Maxsym guys incase its any use to you:

http://www.maxsym.com/

V8 with Busa heads in the 'Projects' section

Single Engined Radical Nurburg record in the 'News' section.

If you need any info from them lemme know.

Cheers
PK

I got your answer. Two trannies, one for each wheel.

quote Originally posted by zMacK: I got your answer. Two trannies, one for each wheel.

really not a bad idea - but might make throttle control in the turns a little tricky

All I can say is WOW!!! That's the first engine I've seen installed through the top..... lol.

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oh,ok. i was pretty much in browse mode and just missed it i guess, but caught enough to remind me of the article. still haven't found it though. maybe it was another mag.

I really like your C5 taillights. I have always wanted to do that!

Use an overrunning clutch on each engine at the drivechain. If one pulls harder than the other, it will be able to continue to accelerate. The loss of load on that engine will cause it to accelerate and catch up, it will still be a tug of war, but they will only be pulling, not being pulled on.

quote I really like your C5 taillights. I have always wanted to do that!

They are filled with LEDs, 100 in each C5 light and 30 in the upper brake light. I have had people actually complain that my brake loghts are too broght, LOL.

Interesting idea with the overrun clutches, I will look into that.

Thanks again for all the support and suggestions guys. I really appreciate it.

I really thought that it was April Fools till I saw the pictures of the engines in the engine bay. Pretty daring. Having taken and accident reconstruction course in the past few months, with a segment on Motorcycles, and knowing what the Hyabusas are, are the former riders of these two 'donated' engines still on this earth?

It's my new found gallows humour. Anyways, good luck. This has to be the most intersting thread on this forum in a very long time. I'll be watching, like many other to see how it turns out. I hope this thing makes it to the street with success.