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88 GT / Formula ride height in the front. Anyone else have this issue? by FieroMonkey
Started on: 05-13-2007 12:19 PM
Replies: 38
Last post by: Rickady88GT on 11-14-2007 11:11 PM
FieroMonkey
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Report this Post05-13-2007 12:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMonkeySend a Private Message to FieroMonkeyDirect Link to This Post
I have a Formula and an 88 GT, both are unmodified suspension wise. The problem is both are riding way too high in the front and before I start tearing things down on one or the other i thought i would ask here first to see if anyone else had this issue and what the possible causes / fixes are.



Formula looks exactly same issue as the gt in this shot it looks even more wrong if you stand at a front angle and look at it. Almost as if a pic was taken of it at the line right when it launched.

[This message has been edited by FieroMonkey (edited 05-13-2007).]

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Report this Post05-13-2007 12:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post
This is a common complaint.
Can be corrected by cutting one coil off of each front spring.

You can also buy lowering springs, but cutting just one coil is not excessive.
One of my 88s still has the stock bushings and the other has poly. They both ride fine.
The rears were untouched.




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Report this Post05-13-2007 02:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
Try this:

Put the front of the car on ramps.
Crack loose all the suspension pivot bolts
Bounce & settle the suspension vigorously
Retighten the bolts

I'm curious to see if this works. My Formula, to my knowledge, has stock springs and sits just fine in the front, but I've been into the suspension a bit.
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Report this Post05-13-2007 03:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for waymanSend a Private Message to waymanDirect Link to This Post
the correct way as described by ED Parks...is to take a 88 coupe front spring(not the GT spring) and take out one ring, then reinstall... i have done 4 such jobs and it was perfict...adjustment for alignment still with-in specks...give it a try.
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Report this Post05-13-2007 04:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tjm4funSend a Private Message to tjm4funDirect Link to This Post
here is a shot of an 88 with the fierostore lowering springs in the front:


I would opt for the cut one ring, as after a year of driving it has actually settled more, and I am contemplating adding a spacer to lift it about 1/2-3/4". at anyrate, don;t forget to trim the bumpstop down or remove it or you will be riding on it full time.
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88 Silver Formula
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Report this Post05-13-2007 04:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post
sooo does anyone have a write up for the cutting of one coil off? this sounds eaiser and cheaper than the lowering ball joints or the springs, what are the down side efects of cutting one coil??? heres my 88 formula, front way up..

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FieroMonkey
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Report this Post05-13-2007 11:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMonkeySend a Private Message to FieroMonkeyDirect Link to This Post
Yes, I too am curious as to what effects on the overall ride of the car is with one coil cut off. And I just wanted to clarify...If I do cut a coil off, i should use coupe 88 springs and NOT GT / Formula WS6 springs?

BTW that has to be one of the coolest Formulas I have ever seen. Wheels, ride height, whaletale. nice

[This message has been edited by FieroMonkey (edited 05-13-2007).]

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Report this Post05-14-2007 12:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Direct Link to This Post
Pontiac probably had too many complaints about the nose scraping so they raised up the nose on the 88. As far as I can tell they all ride about an inch higher in the front than the 84 to 87.
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Report this Post05-14-2007 03:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tjm4funSend a Private Message to tjm4funDirect Link to This Post
btw, don;t plan on any chins if you lower it. my stock nose is hitting, and not just the airdam. this is a real PITA, I can;t even get up my driveway with out the horrible scrunch.
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Report this Post05-14-2007 06:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sjmayeSend a Private Message to sjmayeDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 88 Silver Formula:

sooo does anyone have a write up for the cutting of one coil off? this sounds eaiser and cheaper than the lowering ball joints or the springs, what are the down side efects of cutting one coil??? heres my 88 formula, front way up..



Big 10-4 good buddy! Is there a good write up on how to cut the coil springs?

Do you or should you cut the rear springs as well?

My stock 88 gt looks like it needs about 2" off. Just how much does cutting one coil lower the car?

[This message has been edited by sjmaye (edited 05-14-2007).]

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J Gunsett
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Report this Post05-14-2007 11:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for J GunsettClick Here to visit J Gunsett's HomePageSend a Private Message to J GunsettDirect Link to This Post
FieroMonkey, I have the same problem at this time. I rebuilt the front end a few months ago and thought I did not get it back together correctly. I checked the way the springs were sitting in their mounts, they were correct. I found another member that had a set of springs for a Formula, (thinking something was wrong with mine, I powder coated them) put his springs in and the car still sits the same. If you measure right behind the front wheel well it should be about 6 and ½ inches. At this time I am sitting at 6 and 7/8 in height. Has any front end work been done on your car?

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Report this Post05-14-2007 11:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for James Bond 007Send a Private Message to James Bond 007Direct Link to This Post
After replaceing my shocks I noticed how the ride height had changed and was much higher in the front,so I carfulley sat on each front fender (not recomended for everyone because you can crack the paint).Well the car droped to its normal ride height,probubly due to dry suspension pivot bolts,a little WD-40 should fix that.
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post05-14-2007 12:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
I had this problem with my coupe, most likely due to the added 200 some pounds of 3800 I added to the rear.

I fixed with lowering ball joints because I really like NOT cutting stock springs.



Thats an after picture, before it looked just like yours did.
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css9450
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Report this Post05-14-2007 01:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tjm4fun:

here is a shot of an 88 with the fierostore lowering springs in the front:

I would opt for the cut one ring, as after a year of driving it has actually settled more, and I am contemplating adding a spacer to lift it about 1/2-3/4".


How long ago did you get the Fiero Store springs? The rumor on the forum was that they had a new version which didn't settle like the old ones did.

I can't confirm whether that is true or not since my springs are still at home in the box they came in - one year after buying them! I need to get busy with those!

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tjm4fun
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Report this Post05-14-2007 07:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tjm4funSend a Private Message to tjm4funDirect Link to This Post
I got them in nov 2005 timeframe.
Actually all the aftermarket lowering springs seem to have the rep fo settling after a while.
I just need to decide if I want to use rubber spacers or machine up a set of aluminum ones.
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Report this Post05-15-2007 04:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sjmayeSend a Private Message to sjmayeDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by James Bond 007:

After replaceing my shocks I noticed how the ride height had changed and was much higher in the front,so I carfulley sat on each front fender (not recomended for everyone because you can crack the paint).Well the car droped to its normal ride height,probubly due to dry suspension pivot bolts,a little WD-40 should fix that.


Makes sense. I saw the same thing back with my '69 Camaro. I had thought the center steel sleeve was molded to the rubber pivot bushing which impeded rotation. Are the steel sleeves on the Fiero molded or bonded to the rubber of the OEM bushings? Do the Prothane versions do the same thing?
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Report this Post05-15-2007 04:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tjm4funSend a Private Message to tjm4funDirect Link to This Post
the rubber bushings are bonded, you should load the wheel before tightening the bolts and locking in the center sleeve.
the prothatne bushings are free to rotate on the center bushing, which is why you lube the inside of the poly bushing and the outer sleeve.
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Report this Post05-15-2007 06:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sjmayeSend a Private Message to sjmayeDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tjm4fun:

the rubber bushings are bonded, you should load the wheel before tightening the bolts and locking in the center sleeve.
the prothatne bushings are free to rotate on the center bushing, which is why you lube the inside of the poly bushing and the outer sleeve.



Do you have experience with both? I just wondered if you could sense the resistance to movement with the OEm rubber as opposed to the prothane.

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tjm4fun
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Report this Post05-15-2007 07:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tjm4funSend a Private Message to tjm4funDirect Link to This Post
had them both on the car. the biggest differrence is you have to set the rubber properly on install so it doesn;t raise the car.
As for other effects,with poly the car is more sensitive to minor road roughness, but that could be the kyb's and the springs.
For the 88 tho, it is easier than trying to locate the correct rubber, and cheaper too.
as for handling, the car is twitchier, but then again, when it had rubber it had some POS goodyear gt tifes on it, with the BFG traction h's it is really sensitve to the steerign wheel.
I think my biggest regret is the shocks, the kyb;s are too stiff, and the springs sagging is a disappointment. But on the brightside, Eiback springs are notorious for doing that too, so you just can;t win.
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Report this Post05-15-2007 07:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroMonkey:

Yes, I too am curious as to what effects on the overall ride of the car is with one coil cut off. And I just wanted to clarify...If I do cut a coil off, i should use coupe 88 springs and NOT GT / Formula WS6 springs?



All 88 springs are the same between models. GT/Formula did NOT have stiffer springs, regardless of WS6 option. Doesn't matter which set of fronts you use:

//www.fiero.nl/forum/A...050119-2-054238.html

-Steven

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Report this Post05-15-2007 02:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMonkeySend a Private Message to FieroMonkeyDirect Link to This Post
Well, loosening all the front suspension pivot bolts, WD-40'ing and bouncing down the front end did not help at all.



I even took it for a nice drive and went over some big dips, and also did some hard breaking to throw all the weight forward and compress the front suspension. no change. Looks like cutting a coil is the only way to get this thing back down to earth.

what is the recommended tool / method for cutting 1 coil from front springs?

[This message has been edited by FieroMonkey (edited 05-15-2007).]

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Report this Post05-16-2007 02:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierokingClick Here to visit Fieroking's HomePageSend a Private Message to FierokingDirect Link to This Post
I cut one loop out of the springs on my 88 Formula/GT with a 4.9 Getrag 5 speed. What I did was to remove the spring (obvious) then to cut them I used a Air cutoff wheel to quickly cut through the spring. This did not induce a lot of heat into the spring like a cutting torch would. Just went from the end of the spring and cut one complete loop out. Then had them powder coated and reinstalled. Dropped the car down about an inch. I have had no problems with bump stops or bottoming out the suspension. Also I have not had any problem with hitting the front air dam.

Joe Sokol

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Report this Post05-16-2007 06:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for LZeitgeistSend a Private Message to LZeitgeistDirect Link to This Post
I would not cut the springs because I didn't want to affect the suspension reaction.

I've had Rodney Dickman's 1" Lowering Balljoints on the front of my car for a couple years now, and I think it's exactly the *perfect* tweak that every '88 needs.

rodneydickman.com

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Report this Post05-19-2007 04:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sjmayeSend a Private Message to sjmayeDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by LZeitgeist:

I would not cut the springs because I didn't want to affect the suspension reaction.

I've had Rodney Dickman's 1" Lowering Balljoints on the front of my car for a couple years now, and I think it's exactly the *perfect* tweak that every '88 needs.

rodneydickman.com




If I needed to replace the ball joints I could see doing this, but this only lowers the front. Otherwise why not cut the coil? What about the rear?

Also could some explain why some people claim a Fiero would ride rougher after cutting a coil from the spring? Just don't understand.
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Report this Post05-19-2007 07:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for b50bsaSend a Private Message to b50bsaDirect Link to This Post
A coil spring is basically just a straight rod that has been wound into the coil. When you move the coil up and down it's like twisting a rod from both ends. If you were to move along the rod as you twisted it, it would become harder and harder to twist. Cutting a coil from a spring has the same effect.

HTH

 
quote
Originally posted by sjmaye:

Also could some explain why some people claim a Fiero would ride rougher after cutting a coil from the spring? Just don't understand.


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Report this Post05-19-2007 07:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for m0sh_manSend a Private Message to m0sh_manDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sjmaye:
If I needed to replace the ball joints I could see doing this, but this only lowers the front. Otherwise why not cut the coil? What about the rear?

Also could some explain why some people claim a Fiero would ride rougher after cutting a coil from the spring? Just don't understand.



the lowering ball joint is MUCH MUCH safer than cutting a coil.

matthew
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Report this Post05-19-2007 09:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroMonkey:

Yes, I too am curious as to what effects on the overall ride of the car is with one coil cut off. And I just wanted to clarify...If I do cut a coil off, i should use coupe 88 springs and NOT GT / Formula WS6 springs?

BTW that has to be one of the coolest Formulas I have ever seen. Wheels, ride height, whaletale. nice





Thanks for the "flowers"!
That's actually a coupe. Has all the Formula stuff in it now, though.

When I cut my springs, I also installed poly in the front. With the 45 series tires, it would rattle you pretty good.
It handles quite well, though. I drove it during the track day at Waterford, and it handled *very* predictably. Depending on how I drove it I could get either the front or rear to slide. It only surprised me once (I had a passenger onboard) and was quite easy to recover.
I've got the stock Formua wheels back on the car (for now) and it isn't nearly as harsh.
My other car has cut springs, rubber bushings and the same wheels in the pic. It rides just fine. Not harsh at all. I'm blaming the harshness on the poly bushings combined with the low profile tires.

Sorry for the ramble. Hope it helps.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 05-19-2007).]

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Report this Post05-23-2007 06:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sjmayeSend a Private Message to sjmayeDirect Link to This Post
I see the lowering ball joints and cutting a coil on the front will lower the car about 1". What do you do for the back?
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Report this Post05-23-2007 07:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tom SlickSend a Private Message to Tom SlickDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sjmaye:

I see the lowering ball joints and cutting a coil on the front will lower the car about 1". What do you do for the back?


you really don't have to do anything for the back, since the front is higher when you lower it will even out. making the front and rear uniform. if want to lower the back then you will need to compensate more for the front.

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Report this Post05-23-2007 10:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
Lowering the rear of an '88 lowers the roll center and degrades the handling anyway.
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Report this Post05-24-2007 03:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Emc209iSend a Private Message to Emc209iDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by LZeitgeist:

I would not cut the springs because I didn't want to affect the suspension reaction.

I've had Rodney Dickman's 1" Lowering Balljoints on the front of my car for a couple years now, and I think it's exactly the *perfect* tweak that every '88 needs.

rodneydickman.com



Cutting the springs on an 88 Fiero will not leave adverse affects. This is a myth and always has been. The front of my car is as stiff if not stiffer than any other lowered car I've come across (Eclipses, Jetta's Fiero's, Porsche's; KYB, Koni, etc; 350 lb springs). I heartily recommend it. I would not have second thoughts simply stating, that with the right tires on my car, it is more responsive and stable than 97% of Fiero's out there.

Two coils cut:


You should drive it. Once I get rid of the Pirelli's on the back I'll be top speed checking the DOHC.
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Report this Post05-24-2007 07:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sjmayeSend a Private Message to sjmayeDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Emc209i:


Cutting the springs on an 88 Fiero will not leave adverse affects. This is a myth and always has been. The front of my car is as stiff if not stiffer than any other lowered car I've come across (Eclipses, Jetta's Fiero's, Porsche's; KYB, Koni, etc; 350 lb springs). I heartily recommend it. I would not have second thoughts simply stating, that with the right tires on my car, it is more responsive and stable than 97% of Fiero's out there.

Two coils cut:


You should drive it. Once I get rid of the Pirelli's on the back I'll be top speed checking the DOHC.


That looks really good! So, this is an 88 with 2 coils removed from the front. Anything from the rear?
I plan to stay with the stock wheels. Would that affect my decision on how much to lower?

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Report this Post05-24-2007 11:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Emc209iSend a Private Message to Emc209iDirect Link to This Post
Yes, the wheels are also staggered; 17inch front 18inch rears with 225/45/Z17 tires front and 245/40/Z18's rear. The back end has yet to be touched. I plan on building coilovers with stiffer springs. My problem right now is that I'm running an ultra high performance tire in the front and an expensive touring tiring in the rear, so there is not much sidewall stiffness in the rear (Pirreli's). The car doesn't like this combination at all, and so that back rolls and the front sticks; causing a twisting sensation.

The stock wheels and tires are actually taller than my setup in the front. I have driven my car for a period of time with the Formula wheels on and I get some scrub when banking the car into a hill or bank. You will have to modify the wheelwells to run stock wheels with two coils cut. It looks amazing though! And Feels just as good. I've gotten more compliments than I can count.

[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 05-24-2007).]

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Steven Snyder
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Report this Post05-25-2007 01:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderDirect Link to This Post
Two coils cut looks like a little much, but I guess it depends on how many speed bumps and sloped driveways you have to go over..
I scrape often with 1.5 coils cut off the fronts.. But its just the flexible black plastic air dam so it doesn't really matter too much.
I also cut 3/4" off the bump stops because they were hitting.

This is with 1.5 coils cut off the front stock springs, and coilovers in the rear with 350 lb springs:


The wheel well gaps are perfectly even all the way around.

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Fiero_Adam
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Report this Post05-25-2007 03:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero_AdamSend a Private Message to Fiero_AdamDirect Link to This Post
Really nice ride height, Steven. What size are the wheels and tires?

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Report this Post06-01-2007 12:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero_Adam:

Really nice ride height, Steven. What size are the wheels and tires?



Front:
17x7 55mm offset
205/50/17

Rear:
17x8.5 50mm offset
255/40/17
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Report this Post06-01-2007 02:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BobadooFunkClick Here to visit BobadooFunk's HomePageSend a Private Message to BobadooFunkDirect Link to This Post
can you cut like 1.25?

i myself will do a write up REALLY soon with MANY detailed pics.
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Report this Post11-14-2007 09:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chevypro101Send a Private Message to chevypro101Direct Link to This Post
I have a 88 formula I'am installing a 400 small block with aluminium heads and intake.. do you think or would you cut one front coil out from front spring to make it sit level...It should be around the same weight as a cast iron head 3.8 supercharged engine.. If not what should I do I don't want it to bottom out on ever bump because as you can tell its going to be a street strip car.. but needs a meaner lower look
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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post11-14-2007 11:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post
I cut three sets of springs before I got what I wanted.







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