I have a Formula and an 88 GT, both are unmodified suspension wise. The problem is both are riding way too high in the front and before I start tearing things down on one or the other i thought i would ask here first to see if anyone else had this issue and what the possible causes / fixes are.
Formula looks exactly same issue as the gt in this shot it looks even more wrong if you stand at a front angle and look at it. Almost as if a pic was taken of it at the line right when it launched.
[This message has been edited by FieroMonkey (edited 05-13-2007).]
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12:19 PM
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Raydar Member
Posts: 40686 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
This is a common complaint. Can be corrected by cutting one coil off of each front spring.
You can also buy lowering springs, but cutting just one coil is not excessive. One of my 88s still has the stock bushings and the other has poly. They both ride fine. The rears were untouched.
------------------ Raydar 88 4.9 Formula IMSA Fasback..........................88 3.4 coupe -soon to be something other than red
Put the front of the car on ramps. Crack loose all the suspension pivot bolts Bounce & settle the suspension vigorously Retighten the bolts
I'm curious to see if this works. My Formula, to my knowledge, has stock springs and sits just fine in the front, but I've been into the suspension a bit.
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02:19 PM
wayman Member
Posts: 191 From: port charlotte,FL. 33980 Registered: Jan 2006
the correct way as described by ED Parks...is to take a 88 coupe front spring(not the GT spring) and take out one ring, then reinstall... i have done 4 such jobs and it was perfict...adjustment for alignment still with-in specks...give it a try.
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03:55 PM
tjm4fun Member
Posts: 3781 From: Long Island, NY USA Registered: Feb 2006
here is a shot of an 88 with the fierostore lowering springs in the front:
I would opt for the cut one ring, as after a year of driving it has actually settled more, and I am contemplating adding a spacer to lift it about 1/2-3/4". at anyrate, don;t forget to trim the bumpstop down or remove it or you will be riding on it full time.
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04:04 PM
88 Silver Formula Member
Posts: 857 From: belleville il Registered: Feb 2007
sooo does anyone have a write up for the cutting of one coil off? this sounds eaiser and cheaper than the lowering ball joints or the springs, what are the down side efects of cutting one coil??? heres my 88 formula, front way up..
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04:12 PM
FieroMonkey Member
Posts: 3294 From: poway,CA,USA Registered: Nov 2002
Yes, I too am curious as to what effects on the overall ride of the car is with one coil cut off. And I just wanted to clarify...If I do cut a coil off, i should use coupe 88 springs and NOT GT / Formula WS6 springs?
BTW that has to be one of the coolest Formulas I have ever seen. Wheels, ride height, whaletale. nice
[This message has been edited by FieroMonkey (edited 05-13-2007).]
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11:43 PM
May 14th, 2007
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Pontiac probably had too many complaints about the nose scraping so they raised up the nose on the 88. As far as I can tell they all ride about an inch higher in the front than the 84 to 87.
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12:11 AM
tjm4fun Member
Posts: 3781 From: Long Island, NY USA Registered: Feb 2006
btw, don;t plan on any chins if you lower it. my stock nose is hitting, and not just the airdam. this is a real PITA, I can;t even get up my driveway with out the horrible scrunch.
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03:45 AM
sjmaye Member
Posts: 2468 From: Hendersonville, TN USA Registered: Jun 2003
sooo does anyone have a write up for the cutting of one coil off? this sounds eaiser and cheaper than the lowering ball joints or the springs, what are the down side efects of cutting one coil??? heres my 88 formula, front way up..
Big 10-4 good buddy! Is there a good write up on how to cut the coil springs?
Do you or should you cut the rear springs as well?
My stock 88 gt looks like it needs about 2" off. Just how much does cutting one coil lower the car?
[This message has been edited by sjmaye (edited 05-14-2007).]
FieroMonkey, I have the same problem at this time. I rebuilt the front end a few months ago and thought I did not get it back together correctly. I checked the way the springs were sitting in their mounts, they were correct. I found another member that had a set of springs for a Formula, (thinking something was wrong with mine, I powder coated them) put his springs in and the car still sits the same. If you measure right behind the front wheel well it should be about 6 and ½ inches. At this time I am sitting at 6 and 7/8 in height. Has any front end work been done on your car?
------------------ If you can not run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!
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11:48 AM
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James Bond 007 Member
Posts: 8868 From: California.U.S.A. Registered: Dec 2002
After replaceing my shocks I noticed how the ride height had changed and was much higher in the front,so I carfulley sat on each front fender (not recomended for everyone because you can crack the paint).Well the car droped to its normal ride height,probubly due to dry suspension pivot bolts,a little WD-40 should fix that.
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11:48 AM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
here is a shot of an 88 with the fierostore lowering springs in the front:
I would opt for the cut one ring, as after a year of driving it has actually settled more, and I am contemplating adding a spacer to lift it about 1/2-3/4".
How long ago did you get the Fiero Store springs? The rumor on the forum was that they had a new version which didn't settle like the old ones did.
I can't confirm whether that is true or not since my springs are still at home in the box they came in - one year after buying them! I need to get busy with those!
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01:30 PM
tjm4fun Member
Posts: 3781 From: Long Island, NY USA Registered: Feb 2006
I got them in nov 2005 timeframe. Actually all the aftermarket lowering springs seem to have the rep fo settling after a while. I just need to decide if I want to use rubber spacers or machine up a set of aluminum ones.
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07:14 PM
May 15th, 2007
sjmaye Member
Posts: 2468 From: Hendersonville, TN USA Registered: Jun 2003
After replaceing my shocks I noticed how the ride height had changed and was much higher in the front,so I carfulley sat on each front fender (not recomended for everyone because you can crack the paint).Well the car droped to its normal ride height,probubly due to dry suspension pivot bolts,a little WD-40 should fix that.
Makes sense. I saw the same thing back with my '69 Camaro. I had thought the center steel sleeve was molded to the rubber pivot bushing which impeded rotation. Are the steel sleeves on the Fiero molded or bonded to the rubber of the OEM bushings? Do the Prothane versions do the same thing?
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04:25 AM
tjm4fun Member
Posts: 3781 From: Long Island, NY USA Registered: Feb 2006
the rubber bushings are bonded, you should load the wheel before tightening the bolts and locking in the center sleeve. the prothatne bushings are free to rotate on the center bushing, which is why you lube the inside of the poly bushing and the outer sleeve.
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04:28 AM
sjmaye Member
Posts: 2468 From: Hendersonville, TN USA Registered: Jun 2003
the rubber bushings are bonded, you should load the wheel before tightening the bolts and locking in the center sleeve. the prothatne bushings are free to rotate on the center bushing, which is why you lube the inside of the poly bushing and the outer sleeve.
Do you have experience with both? I just wondered if you could sense the resistance to movement with the OEm rubber as opposed to the prothane.
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06:12 AM
tjm4fun Member
Posts: 3781 From: Long Island, NY USA Registered: Feb 2006
had them both on the car. the biggest differrence is you have to set the rubber properly on install so it doesn;t raise the car. As for other effects,with poly the car is more sensitive to minor road roughness, but that could be the kyb's and the springs. For the 88 tho, it is easier than trying to locate the correct rubber, and cheaper too. as for handling, the car is twitchier, but then again, when it had rubber it had some POS goodyear gt tifes on it, with the BFG traction h's it is really sensitve to the steerign wheel. I think my biggest regret is the shocks, the kyb;s are too stiff, and the springs sagging is a disappointment. But on the brightside, Eiback springs are notorious for doing that too, so you just can;t win.
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07:01 AM
Steven Snyder Member
Posts: 3323 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Mar 2004
Yes, I too am curious as to what effects on the overall ride of the car is with one coil cut off. And I just wanted to clarify...If I do cut a coil off, i should use coupe 88 springs and NOT GT / Formula WS6 springs?
All 88 springs are the same between models. GT/Formula did NOT have stiffer springs, regardless of WS6 option. Doesn't matter which set of fronts you use:
Well, loosening all the front suspension pivot bolts, WD-40'ing and bouncing down the front end did not help at all.
I even took it for a nice drive and went over some big dips, and also did some hard breaking to throw all the weight forward and compress the front suspension. no change. Looks like cutting a coil is the only way to get this thing back down to earth.
what is the recommended tool / method for cutting 1 coil from front springs?
[This message has been edited by FieroMonkey (edited 05-15-2007).]
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02:23 PM
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May 16th, 2007
Fieroking Member
Posts: 2144 From: Coeur D Alene Idaho USA Registered: Jun 2002
I cut one loop out of the springs on my 88 Formula/GT with a 4.9 Getrag 5 speed. What I did was to remove the spring (obvious) then to cut them I used a Air cutoff wheel to quickly cut through the spring. This did not induce a lot of heat into the spring like a cutting torch would. Just went from the end of the spring and cut one complete loop out. Then had them powder coated and reinstalled. Dropped the car down about an inch. I have had no problems with bump stops or bottoming out the suspension. Also I have not had any problem with hitting the front air dam.
I would not cut the springs because I didn't want to affect the suspension reaction.
I've had Rodney Dickman's 1" Lowering Balljoints on the front of my car for a couple years now, and I think it's exactly the *perfect* tweak that every '88 needs.
I would not cut the springs because I didn't want to affect the suspension reaction.
I've had Rodney Dickman's 1" Lowering Balljoints on the front of my car for a couple years now, and I think it's exactly the *perfect* tweak that every '88 needs.
rodneydickman.com
If I needed to replace the ball joints I could see doing this, but this only lowers the front. Otherwise why not cut the coil? What about the rear?
Also could some explain why some people claim a Fiero would ride rougher after cutting a coil from the spring? Just don't understand.
A coil spring is basically just a straight rod that has been wound into the coil. When you move the coil up and down it's like twisting a rod from both ends. If you were to move along the rod as you twisted it, it would become harder and harder to twist. Cutting a coil from a spring has the same effect.
HTH
quote
Originally posted by sjmaye:
Also could some explain why some people claim a Fiero would ride rougher after cutting a coil from the spring? Just don't understand.
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07:51 AM
m0sh_man Member
Posts: 8460 From: south charleston WV 25309 Registered: Feb 2002
Originally posted by sjmaye: If I needed to replace the ball joints I could see doing this, but this only lowers the front. Otherwise why not cut the coil? What about the rear?
Also could some explain why some people claim a Fiero would ride rougher after cutting a coil from the spring? Just don't understand.
the lowering ball joint is MUCH MUCH safer than cutting a coil.
matthew
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07:52 AM
Raydar Member
Posts: 40686 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
Yes, I too am curious as to what effects on the overall ride of the car is with one coil cut off. And I just wanted to clarify...If I do cut a coil off, i should use coupe 88 springs and NOT GT / Formula WS6 springs?
BTW that has to be one of the coolest Formulas I have ever seen. Wheels, ride height, whaletale. nice
Thanks for the "flowers"! That's actually a coupe. Has all the Formula stuff in it now, though.
When I cut my springs, I also installed poly in the front. With the 45 series tires, it would rattle you pretty good. It handles quite well, though. I drove it during the track day at Waterford, and it handled *very* predictably. Depending on how I drove it I could get either the front or rear to slide. It only surprised me once (I had a passenger onboard) and was quite easy to recover. I've got the stock Formua wheels back on the car (for now) and it isn't nearly as harsh. My other car has cut springs, rubber bushings and the same wheels in the pic. It rides just fine. Not harsh at all. I'm blaming the harshness on the poly bushings combined with the low profile tires.
Sorry for the ramble. Hope it helps.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 05-19-2007).]
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09:35 AM
May 23rd, 2007
sjmaye Member
Posts: 2468 From: Hendersonville, TN USA Registered: Jun 2003
I see the lowering ball joints and cutting a coil on the front will lower the car about 1". What do you do for the back?
you really don't have to do anything for the back, since the front is higher when you lower it will even out. making the front and rear uniform. if want to lower the back then you will need to compensate more for the front.
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07:13 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14216 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
I would not cut the springs because I didn't want to affect the suspension reaction.
I've had Rodney Dickman's 1" Lowering Balljoints on the front of my car for a couple years now, and I think it's exactly the *perfect* tweak that every '88 needs.
rodneydickman.com
Cutting the springs on an 88 Fiero will not leave adverse affects. This is a myth and always has been. The front of my car is as stiff if not stiffer than any other lowered car I've come across (Eclipses, Jetta's Fiero's, Porsche's; KYB, Koni, etc; 350 lb springs). I heartily recommend it. I would not have second thoughts simply stating, that with the right tires on my car, it is more responsive and stable than 97% of Fiero's out there.
Two coils cut:
You should drive it. Once I get rid of the Pirelli's on the back I'll be top speed checking the DOHC.
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03:11 AM
PFF
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sjmaye Member
Posts: 2468 From: Hendersonville, TN USA Registered: Jun 2003
Cutting the springs on an 88 Fiero will not leave adverse affects. This is a myth and always has been. The front of my car is as stiff if not stiffer than any other lowered car I've come across (Eclipses, Jetta's Fiero's, Porsche's; KYB, Koni, etc; 350 lb springs). I heartily recommend it. I would not have second thoughts simply stating, that with the right tires on my car, it is more responsive and stable than 97% of Fiero's out there.
Two coils cut:
You should drive it. Once I get rid of the Pirelli's on the back I'll be top speed checking the DOHC.
That looks really good! So, this is an 88 with 2 coils removed from the front. Anything from the rear? I plan to stay with the stock wheels. Would that affect my decision on how much to lower?
Yes, the wheels are also staggered; 17inch front 18inch rears with 225/45/Z17 tires front and 245/40/Z18's rear. The back end has yet to be touched. I plan on building coilovers with stiffer springs. My problem right now is that I'm running an ultra high performance tire in the front and an expensive touring tiring in the rear, so there is not much sidewall stiffness in the rear (Pirreli's). The car doesn't like this combination at all, and so that back rolls and the front sticks; causing a twisting sensation.
The stock wheels and tires are actually taller than my setup in the front. I have driven my car for a period of time with the Formula wheels on and I get some scrub when banking the car into a hill or bank. You will have to modify the wheelwells to run stock wheels with two coils cut. It looks amazing though! And Feels just as good. I've gotten more compliments than I can count.
[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 05-24-2007).]
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11:23 PM
May 25th, 2007
Steven Snyder Member
Posts: 3323 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Mar 2004
Two coils cut looks like a little much, but I guess it depends on how many speed bumps and sloped driveways you have to go over.. I scrape often with 1.5 coils cut off the fronts.. But its just the flexible black plastic air dam so it doesn't really matter too much. I also cut 3/4" off the bump stops because they were hitting.
This is with 1.5 coils cut off the front stock springs, and coilovers in the rear with 350 lb springs:
The wheel well gaps are perfectly even all the way around.
I have a 88 formula I'am installing a 400 small block with aluminium heads and intake.. do you think or would you cut one front coil out from front spring to make it sit level...It should be around the same weight as a cast iron head 3.8 supercharged engine.. If not what should I do I don't want it to bottom out on ever bump because as you can tell its going to be a street strip car.. but needs a meaner lower look
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09:25 PM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002