Most talk about swaps or turbos then talk about nitrous even less. Just wanted to get a show of hands for those who run it and love it. This may start off like a general chat thread but I am sure it will turn techy in no time.

alright I am a student on the proper ways of n2o...

I get the basics of having forged internals and balancing also is a must from what I was taught but I have this done to all my built motors along with a nice port and polish... so it seems it may be ready but what else would I need to do to prep the engine for it? also I have a custom cam and rollertip rockers with a higher lift... does a higher compression rate effect the ability of me running juice or does it enhance its potential gains?

EDIT: thanks for starting the thread on this one I have a lot to learn

[This message has been edited by jack_ink (edited 01-29-2007).]

biggest thing about n2o is haveing a way to tune forged internals are a good thing but you can run a small wet shot with out it. the first thing you need to get is all the safty switches. fuel pressure (wot for an automatic) and (rpm window switch for manual) and start out small. jack im not trying to bust you balls but i was looking at the kit car forum and you stated your car did 9.8 in the 1/4 can you give me some more info on that?

He also said he had a 400+hp 3.4 ohv iron head that was N/A So the 9.8 was probably the 1/8 and if he says the 1/4 I've learned to just say whatever and keep rollin.

Nitrous just adds air. It gives the ability to run more fuel. So no matter what your engine configuration is you can add nitrous to it for a more potent combo. I plan to run 11.3 compression and nitrous later the is year. Depending on the size of your shot you may need a hi flow fuel pump. The LSA of your cam may need to be changed depending on what it is. Higher lift helps because it allows more air and fuel to enter the chambers.

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 01-29-2007).]

I have a 125hp shoot on my 350 fiero just put it together so I haven't had enough time to break it the motor in and use it. From what I have read any thing below 140hp is "ok" on stock internals, but just like any thing if you kick the ass out of it, you will break it! I think it says lower compresion is better.

not on my fiero, but in the past i had a 60* v6 on the bottle. wasnt impressed. went up to 125 dry shot, toasted the bottom end. it was probably the rebuild i had done on that motor, used a 'cheap' rebuilder. with a 75 shot on there it felt more like a 10hp shot. other cars ive been in with nitrous have had the 'snap you back in your seat' feeling when the nitrous is injected.

would like to add it to my 3.4, but im far from that step at the moment

Sorry bout the posts but it was on one of those damn laptop Dynos and it included the fact that my wheels were still spinning in its calculations for the distance and times... etc etc and DarthFiero on here set me straight on progs to use and said that I need a chassis Dyno run to get it down for sure without all the other crap from laptops... and I know I beat my neighbors buick GNX that has multiple 11.40's in consistency and I was always (5 runs) over 3.5 car lengths ahead of him but it was on crappy (new 16" rims and low pro tires) I miss the wide ones they grabbed better for me... I have proven the point on racing other cars with multiple passes of below 12.2 (cousins modded Mach 1) and also a few of the DSM 11.3 cars (talon TSI TT setup, and my old buddy Matts GST eclipse who did hit a 10.9 after he was done with the n2o and other stuff) I beat the DSM cars by over 2 car lengths... As soon as I can I will get it on a dyno and share it all with you guys but I know its a beast, so do the others around here I just cant drive it anymore due to my knee gettin crushed in the drunk driving accident.

but I will have a very capable driver in it on a dyno

And thanks to Darth for setting me straight on the laptop dyno, it was only good for a waste of memory now its gone

I'm not yet using my setup yet, but all I can say is that the amount of it may not matter as much as how often you are planning to use it.

I have heard that V8's can take 150 shot on stock internals, but I don't know how often...? Also another thing is that the bigger the engine the more Nitrous it will take, and for sure wet kits are the way to go. Coating the pistons and using the right rings and clearances are important, and if both the shot is big or so is the frequency of the use of it (or rather abuse!) then forged and MLS gaskets are probably on your shopping list for sure!

Another thing is that Nitrous works much like a On and Off switch, where if you know don't know the limits of your tranny you can be cooking an accident without knowing it. Its simple Physics your car at slow speeds is relatively heavier than if it was at moving, therefore most people ruined their tranny on take offs, (this is not hard to picture if you ever ride a bicycle where the star is always harder), so with that being said keep in mind that your car makes most of its torque at low RPM which equals mostly take off rpm, so if you are using a V8 = Lots of low torque, and add Nitrous which will increase your torque output, will not be a fair match to your tranny if you are using a 100+ shot. So keep in mind that you shall not use it until your car gets moving!

JG

"Bottle heater". That's the first thing you need to learn. You need one to squeeze the advertised HP. Otherwise you are wasting the spray

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: "Bottle heater". That's the first thing you need to learn. You need one to squeeze the advertised HP. Otherwise you are wasting the spray

QFT

I sold the nitrous kit I had to buy some other 'full time' upgrades for the 3800sc. I loved it, the current owner loves it. It really woke up the 2.8. I ran it on stock internals (as does the current owner), with just an ignition upgrade and colder plugs. I did have ported manis and a borla exhaust however. The kit I has was an LS1 NX wet kit.

I've run nitrous on about 7 cars. From a 50-125 powershot on my first small block many, many years ago to a dual stage - 50 first stage / 175 second stage on my old 454. I used plate styles up to the 250HP Big Shot Plate system (which is a sure way to destroy even the most hearty engine..) and direct port into the intake manifold which is what I prefer.

I've found that (even though mfg's say it's not needed on the 125HP and lower systems) that a dual fuel system is a must have. Simply T ' ing off the stock fuel line I've never felt was enough and often leads to a lean condition and engine damage, especially with a stock fuel pump. Many people just "slap on" an 125 shot, "split" their 5/16" factory fuel line and go to town. Then often they "beat it like there's no tomorrow" , set the advance to high, lean out the engine and destroy everything.

Running a dedicated fuel system for the NOS is always the best bet. Stock internals can hang in there quite awhile with up to a 125 shot if the other systems are up to par.

Also: Just my little "rule". NOS is a power adder not the "sole way" to achieve your HP.

My 454 for example Dyno'd at 414HP. The 50 first stage and then the 175 second were just enough for that "little edge". Any more and you start getting into that danger zone. You can run more but just expect to be taking the engine apart again sooner. My point is: You can't simply take your 140HP 2.8 and slam a 250 shot on there.

I always use my " HALF RULE ".

If your engine dyno's at 400HP and is a quality build, a 200 shot is perfectly fine. If your SBC puts out 300HP than a 150 is a nice solid (MAX) choice in my book. I think a 100-125 would be just fine and plenty safe. NOS is very addictive and that's where the problems come from. I've seen people down the track with 110HP V6's slap on a 175 or 200 shot and then are truly baffled when they grenade their motor....!!??? Here's a hint: If you need a 175-200 shot to achieve 275HP you do not know what you are doing....Please exit the racetrack, go home and read some books.

Some other things that experience has taught me: I've seen quite a bit of people do all of these things and then bring their cars into the speed shop for "diagnosis".

You should not use NOS if you (or someone you know):

1. Set's timing by ear.
2. Does not know how to jet your carb or install bigger injectors.
3. Does not know what a Bottle Blanket is for applications over a 75 shot..
4. Thinks inhaling it is a perk to running NOS.
5. Buys a 4 Barrel adapter plate to bolt the 4bbl NOS Plate to your 2bbl intake and stock Q-jet (or Dual Jet...).

4. Plan to devise the system yourself and consider trying to use a Propane Tank - (YES . . . I'm serious.! . . kids (and adults) have actually (and frequently) came in and tried to get these filled! Here's a tip: NOS pressure will explode a propane tank LONG before it's even close to the reccommended pressure and HEY GENIUS's . . . THERE IS A REASON THE FITTINGS ARE THREADED IN REVERSE AND DIFFERENT SO PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT AWARE OF THIS FACT DON'T DO CRAP LIKE THAT BLOW THEMSELVES UP !

PS. this is not directed at anyone ,or in no way implies that I'm and Expert, I just thought some of you would get a little laugh.

Just my .02.

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I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm flying too low.

[This message has been edited by 3084me (edited 01-29-2007).]

i suggest anybody get an fjo mini controller if you plan on runnin juice. This is one of the sweetest progressive controllers because it can be time delay OR rpm based. This unit can soften the onset of nitrous by ramping it. And it is fully digital so no knobs switches or dials. Hook it up to any usb port and change the settings. This and a bottle heater and a fpss are much needed pieces.

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 01-29-2007).]

Wow, I have already learned very much

and 308, I know lots of people who do that sort of thing and when it comes down to it grenading on them run home crying screaming "you mean the manufacturers warranty doesnt cover the engine exploding like that".... like they didnt know it voids manufacturers warranties to strap the bottle in and splice it all in there...

Just a Q: I hear many people argue (and I defend to some extent) "Each time you use n2o XXX shot takes XXXX-XXXXX miles off the life of your engine... I will say that what some dumbas$es do here

(for example my little brothers friend Dan) I have a Saturn so I will have Forged pistons put in, (NOT rods as well and no new bearings/ port & polish either) upgrades the clutch so it can handle a freaking sidestep or two for showing off (stage 3) "so it wont slip on takeoff" he slapped in a nice 200 shot and abuses the hell out of it it ran a 14.3 with the n2o 200 shot (its a 4cyl 1.8ltr I think) and he wasnt impressed with the juice so he wanted to add more like a 275 shot (I called him stupid and when it blew up I wasnt surprised) he tried to say that it didnt add wear and tear on the engine since he had forged pistons... He T-lined it and and added the bottle, no bottle heater (new idea around here), no mix gauges, nothing but a need to refill gauge on the tanks psi ... hmmm

thats how most of the people I know around here are doing it and thats why n2o was a no for me (at least street wise) I may inquire about it for my next side project...

I disagree that it does not "wear" an engine.

Increased heat, combustion temps and rpm all take their toll. Just having forged pistons doesn't mean that no wear or damage is happening. Heat increases, rings expand, crack , stress, score cylinder walls etc. Cylinder pressure will start to leak by the rings during boost and pressurize the crankcase in some instances causing blow-by, oil leaks etc. That (and much more) all happens.

NOS does decrease engine life, plain and simple. It's an indirect cost of higher horsepower. Not much you can do about it. A reasonable shot will allow your engine to live longer...

Also, Like mentioned above, I can't tell you how may people add a 200 shot and just guess that they are adding 200HP to the car. Dyno results on improper setups can show as little as a 100HP increase (or less). Often, people don't "feel" that a XXX shot is doing the job so they just ramp it up. They are just wasting NOS and screwing up their engine.

Also mentioned above. A progressive controller is a great way to engage the spray. It's so smooth that you don't really feel the juice. Just smooth power. A dyno is the only true way to know just how much HP your setup is producing. Nothing worse than someone with a 150HP plate on a 225HP 87 Z-28 and then it dyno's at 270HP.
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I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm flying too low.

[This message has been edited by 3084me (edited 01-29-2007).]

Like most I run my fuel off the schrader valve port. I haven't had a prob yet...but I just rebuilt my noids and I only run a 100shot, but this site has alot of helpful stuff. I go here for all my juice reading.

http://www.ls1tech.com/foru...wthread.php?t=649117

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 01-29-2007).]

goatnipples2002,

You are in a little different "spot" with your setup because unlike, many older cars, the fuel pump(s) and lines from the fuel tank for those newer types of applications can supply quite a bit of volume and pressure from the fuel rail. I'd most likely do the same thing up to 125HP to play it safe but I've seen some 150HP and higher setups running right "off of the schrader valve" and doing quite well..

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I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm flying too low.

[This message has been edited by 3084me (edited 01-29-2007).]

Gottcha. I am afraid to run the 150 but with the controller I am somewhat a little more at ease.

I like nitrous but the problem is it is addictive.

I last had it on my 289 powered Pinto and in the end I was going through a bottle a week. The cost is what drove me to turbo engines.

Gene

bottle a week is pretty tame to me, just depends on how often you use it or race.

yeah after he added the 200 shot he was trying to trash on my fiero, I beat him by 8 car lengths and he accused me of "hiding a bottle" and all the other good stuff that goes with that... BTW it only shaved 2 seconds offf his crappy 1/4 time lol and it cost him so much to not have it all built properly at the same time, and also cost him the engine later... I tried to buy his n2o setup but he said it added to the value of the 1998 saturn and he wanted 10k$ for it with a blown motor and when the motor blew (he was hitting the n2o on the highway and rearended some old womans car (wrecked he wanted 5k$)) but he wouldnt sell me the kit as I am going to try and learn how to:
1. Properly Install
2. Setup
3. Learn To NOT Duck Tape The Button Down

and yeah any preferred brands I got an offer from Zex on some a while back and I like the thought of learning here before getting a kit and all

thank you guys for all of your inpu and teaching me,

and thanks to Goatnipples for the good link

Stay clear of zex and NOS. I would go with Nitrous Express. That zex box is a joke. and the nos nozzles suck.

Read from here...don't READ 1st.
http://www.ls1tech.com/foru...orumdisplay.php?f=10

They do alot of nitrous stuff it is one of the bigger ls1 forum nitrous section.


This the nozzle shoot out
http://centralfloridastreet.../nozzleshootout.html

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 01-30-2007).]

OK thanks for the tips, I just thought it would be easy... guess installing this stuff and doing it right is going to kill me now.... so what would I have to pay one of you n2o experts to install something like this? The local idiots had no clue what a bottle heater was for on anything used below 300+ shot... so yeah I dont trust em...


hmm isnt there any way to get a ready to install COMPLETE kit? and I was thinking of a small shot, but I will figure it all out and I may have to use a nice size one just to justify the cost/pain of installing it...

The install really isn't that hard. Easier than changing a clutch

jack maby you can tell us what you have done to your car. there are a lot of people who would love to have the kind of power n/a out of a 2.8. you need to run that thing at a real track if what you clame is true you will have one of the fastest fiero times on the board

started to say something smartassed.

Nitrous sucks.........................................................when the bottles empty

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 01-30-2007).]

I dunt think its a 2.8 that came from a camaro (94) before it was all worked over dude went through the whole block before letting me touch it...
heres a quick glimpse
Oh yeah I just remembered there are NO emissions on this car too
white faced gauges,
120 speedo(WF),
A/C delete(have parts to reinstall),
cruise control delete(have parts to reinstall),
custom ground cam(dont know the duration),
ported & polished,
upgraded injectors(22lb I believe),
all forged internals,
high compression pistons and rings(10.5 or11:1 changed em and forgot),
new slave cyl,
new master cyl,
spec stage IV clutch,
new pressure plate, throw out bearing and clutch fork,
upgraded computer(reflashed chip),
and cd player (6 months old)XM/sirius ready removeable face flip down was 300$,
new p/w motors,
new dew wipes (5 months old),
short throw shifter,

The motor came out of a 94 camaro and was new when bought(as a block w/ a crank) and then bored and stroked .060 over, balanced and blueprinted(top and
bottom ends), polished crank, lightweight flywheel,

16" sunfire chrome wheels with new tires low profile,
new door panels(inside) 7 months old,
Intrax Lowering springs 2",
and KYB all 4 corners,
Poly dogbone,
Poly suspension

like I said though Darth told me the flaws on the laptop dyno prog I was using such as noise in the cables you hook up can throw the #'s so far off that its unreal
so now as soon as I get the court stuff outta my way I will try and find a chassis dyno to see ACTUAL #'s but I do know I have put the shocked look across many faces when I flew by

[This message has been edited by jack_ink (edited 01-30-2007).]

Sense we're on this subject, thought I'd ask a question. Who makes the best annular fogger nozzle ( goes straight out the end ) ? Or any recommendations.

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85 GT 3.4
14.9 @ 90 1.9 60' Old TH125/3.06
Unknown New 4T60/3.42

I like the NOS stainless steel annular fogger nozzle. NOS has been around for a long time and I trust their solenoids, jetting items and nozzles.

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I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm flying too low.

quote Originally posted by goatnipples2002: The install really isn't that hard. Easier than changing a clutch

gave you a + for believing in me on it and keeping me away from crappy kits-- I almost bought the Zex one now I am looking harder and dont know what to try out

quote Originally posted by 3084me: I like the NOS stainless steel annular fogger nozzle. NOS has been around for a long time and I trust their solenoids, jetting items and nozzles.

You might change your mind after you read this. The link is a nozzle shoot out and the NOS was the worst. A company called dyno tune has nozzles that use nos jets but they actually produce good power. I'm biased towards NX, but they aren't the best on the shoot out but top 3.
http://centralfloridastreet.../nozzleshootout.html

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 01-31-2007).]

so which should I run? direct port injection or a fogger plate? I see the fogger plate has its simplistic install but if I am going to wear my engine out quick I want the most power out of it I can get before the fix/repeat happens in the cycle...

whats the pos/neg of plate vs port?

does the plate not also evenly distribute it?

Most plate systems are for carbs or custom applications. The systems that would be in consideration for a fuel injected car would be nozzles whether it be 1-6. I have 2 TBs so I am running a 2 nozzle setup and my intake flow a hell of a lot better than stock so I don't think I would gain a $hit ton from my current setup to a direct port. Direct port does give the ability to adjust each cylinder but it is also expensive when you consider you need 6 nozzles, distribution blocks, jets, hoses, and then all the other stuff mentioned. Direct port's real advantage is that it can over come intakes that suck and tend to make fuel pool in the intake from bigger shots (more than 100). If someone supplied the parts I would run DP, but as long as I have to fit the bill I will stick to my current setup. The more nozzles you have the harder the hit, but it just cost more. Might want to have more than 1 bottle, I am currently looking for another 10lb tank for those long nights.

so basically I get on nozzle of XX or XXX shot run it to before the intake and tap a hole for it pre TB or is there a certain stage in the system it must enter at? sorry for sounding dumb here but I am trying to learn here from the people who know what a bottle heater is...

not to get off the subject but I was also looking into the dual TB setup and was wondering what it does to your gas mileage... and if you have fab'd anything to make the throttle response not so much of an on/off switch sutch as a pulley you can adjust the ratio's to from the cable

You can drill a hole in your intake or TB lip and tap it you whatever nozzle you. Nozzles come in to sizes 1/16 and 1/8. I like the 1/8 because that tap is readily available where as the 1/16 is a special tap and cost a little more.

Keep the nitrous Qs here and the Dual Tb Qs in the other thread.

Dual TB intake link
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...2/HTML/077346-4.html

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 01-31-2007).]

Sorry I just got lost on why n2o w/ dual TB thats insane... even for me just the potential power is nice....

and I tap it in then its pretty simple to do that way.. I guess I had the direct port (like 6/8 taps and lines) confused with the simple tap fogger(1/2) and the plates must be for carb driven only huh?...

I guess it would be a pretty simple install... I'd like to have an expierienced with n2o and safety stuff on n2o person watch over me on hooking it up though... as I may wire it backwards or something dumb like that(botle heater screws up etc etc)... and if its that easy I would probably be in the market for say a 50 - 75 shot just to say I have it ... (I'd get addicted to the button I already know it) and I would try not to use it at all for fear of an error on my part...

is there a formula for how much each shhot takes off the life of your engine? say a 200 shot lessens the engine life by 10,000 miles (stock internals, if they lived) been told that by a guy at a racing shop who deals the Zex stuff... but that alone may show what he knows...

Well read the nozzle shoot out. Some were pretty good but they're all 90*. I need one that's straight. I'm putting this on a trueleo intake with one nozzle on each runner (6). They will be aimed at the valve. I think this will be the best nitrous system for my application. If I have just one nozzle to supply the entire engine, I will get poor distribution, poor gains and short lived motor. Guess I'll keep looking for a good nozzle. Thanks for the forum post, they were good, interesting. I might talk to them. I did find a good price on a time based progressive controller from dynotune. Well I'll keep an eye on this post. Later

------------------

85 GT 3.4
14.9 @ 90 1.9 60' Old TH125/3.06
Unknown New 4T60/3.42

I only have a minute.....Chief get the FJO mini nitrous conrtroller it is only $210 and you can tailor your spray through a pc based program.

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 01-31-2007).]

cool I too will also look into the FJO mini controller when I get a setup... I dont think a "kit" would be complete enough for me after learning just a little bit from here...

thanks for the informative thread here