Welcome to the build up thread of the West Coast Fiero 5/6 speed transaxle.

For the longest time, Fiero owners have had to accept the weaknesses in the Fiero 4 and 5 speed transaxles. Hitting only 25 mph in first gear, weak spider gears etc.

No longer.

We are now introducing the first of the WCF5 and WCF6 Transaxles.
http://www.westcoastfiero.com/transmission/transmission.html for details.

The transaxle is now ready to bolted up to our mock 3800 block for fitting purposes.

The tranny and engine are now bolted and ready to start the fitting process on an 84-87 cradle.

Measurements are painstakingly made and confirmed for a level powertrain and top notch craftsmanship.

[This message has been edited by WKDFIRO (edited 10-05-2004).]

Man, this is going to be good!

EDIT:

quote Originally posted by WKDFIRO: The tranny and engine are now bolted and ready to start the fitting process on an 84-87 cradle.

Only 84-87 for now? Plans are in work for 88's yes?

[This message has been edited by mcaanda (edited 10-05-2004).]

how much different will this be to put on an 88 cradle?

and how much HP will this 3800 have to put the tranny to the test?

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still plays with cars..

The powertrain is now mounted on the 3800 engine mount and we have found it necessary to modify the cradle for tranny mounts.

Tomorrow, the mounts will be created. Chris has confirmed that a dual clutch setup which will be used for maximum clamping power.

quote Originally posted by WKDFIRO: The 3800 will most likely not have the maximum power to push the transaxle very hard. It is up to the customer to decide how far he wants to go later on in this project. What we are doing here is purely prototype mock ups for when the actual recipient Fiero arrives. How much different for an 88? Don't know yet Kameo, we might have already been done with an 88 cradle by now - Remember Chris asking you if you wanted the first shot at this tranny when your Fiero was here? Pontiac Fiero GT 3.4 Twin Cam Turbo 6 speed. It might have had a nice ring to it....

yeah yeah... it just wasn't time for it .. . . . . .yet !!

edit: the six speed would be nice but i think that i would have gone with the 5-speed with the higher HP rating. I'll have to see how far I take the DOHC to see if there is a need for getting one..

[This message has been edited by Kameo Kid (edited 10-05-2004).]

Wow this is going to be sweet. I wish they would have offered this when I was doing my swap. But now I have an automatic and well its a pain to go back. Although it would be a sweet swap, but I think prices will hold a lot of people back. Im not cheap and think its worth every penny but I dont think I have $5,000 for a manual tranny. I would like to drive one and see how it works though.

-Amir

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1 of 2: Factory Maroon/Gray 87 GT 5 spd: 2.8L (Best 1/4 mile: 15.57@87mph, 2.0 60ft)
2 of 2: Ferrari Red 88 Formula/4T65EHD: 97 GTP Motor (Best 1/4 mile: 13.704@98mph, 1.938 60ft)

My Website
My CarDomain Site

quote Originally posted by Rare87GT: I would like to drive one and see how it works though.

So would we, I assure you.

So would we.

well is it done yet??

bump it

I love the idea of 1st gear going higher than 25 mph but why is the final drive ratio so high? Are these race only transmissions?

Personally, I would like to see a final drive around 3.0 so I can cruise at 90+ mph easily. Will there be other gear options later?

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: I love the idea of 1st gear going higher than 25 mph but why is the final drive ratio so high? Are these race only transmissions? Personally, I would like to see a final drive around 3.0 so I can cruise at 90+ mph easily. Will there be other gear options later?

Definately!! Options are a must...

OLDS AURORA V8 6SPD...turbo...lol! bumps

Hi all,

What kinda mods to the aurora v8 are we talkin about....? Details, details, details...I'd be most interested in them cuz I may want this application in my car....

Did I hear someone say that they like the idea of first gear doing more than 25? My S* 4t65e 4 speed auto dont shift( heavy right foot ) till over 55mph. Man I hate that. This engine has no chance of winding out under 40mph, because the gear ratio is WAY to high
I would love to have a manual 6 speed on my S*. I want to hear it sing at 25 mph With the 4t65e at 25 mph the rpm in 1st is so low it dont sound like a sports car
I also think that the lower 1st gear will get me off the line much faster. And the rpm wont drop so far in between shifts. That will keep the DOHC engines in thhere power band most of the time.

Man that thing realy hangs over the side too.

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Rickady88GT QuadCam 3.5 V6

quote Originally posted by pavo_roddy: Hi all, What kinda mods to the aurora v8 are we talkin about....? Details, details, details...I'd be most interested in them cuz I may want this application in my car....

Hi all,

Now that I think about this indy used or still uses aurora v8's in their setups...While I know were talkin stratospheric costs there, but still there has to be some good an cheaper mods available...Anyone know..??

Shown is the prototype of the rear tranny mount/ bracket.

Work is still being done and considered for the front tranny mounts and bracket. Modifications to the cradle will be shown soon.

As far as jumping off the line, a 25 mph 1st gear BLOWS even with the 2.8. Give it 10 more miles with the torque of the 3.4 and it would be perfect in my opinion. Put a V8 on it (as I remember in the days before California Kid took his car) and you might as well just have a 4 speed transaxle because the 1st gear is useless with that much torque. You might be having an engine singing but its got NOTHING to sing about crawling at 25. Granted, 55 may not something that you want (though 65 seems to be good enough for the Ford GT's first gear) but multivalve engines just don't have the low end torque as the push rods. The push rods trade that off by not being as efficient at mid to top end.

As for the Auroras running in IRL, I'm not even sure if they're using the same blocks. Anyone know for sure?

[This message has been edited by WKDFIRO (edited 10-09-2004).]

a slightly used one finished ebay a couple of weeks ago. didnt look much like the stock one.
it was listed buy it now for only $45,000!!!!
that has got to go in a $500 fiero!

An early prototype for the front tranny bracket. It is unlikely that this will remain in the final design. Preliminary designs will most likely have the adaptor plate extend further out to double as the tranny mount. This will keep torsional forces away from the tranny case. The adaptor plate at this point will have to be redesigned to become a load bearing structure.

In order to maintain a low position of the power train it has become necessary to alter the cradle for shifter arm clearences. This will keep the center of gravity a little lower (every little bit helps) and will also enable the axles to spin in a more central position relative to the position of the wheel when the Fiero is on the ground. The alterations to the cradle will be boxed to maintain cradle strength and craftsmanship.

Something that we have not encountered for a 3800 conversion is this odd interference from the block on the top of the starter solenoid. It will be necessary to grind a little bit off from the block for a flush stock starter position. Has anyone else had this problem? The block we are using for mock-up purposes is a 2002 Buick (model unknown)

[This message has been edited by WKDFIRO (edited 10-15-2004).]

First, it's nice to see someone developing a manual transaxle solution for high-powered applications.

Second, why not just bolt up a NSX engine once you've gone through all the work to get the tranny in and forget the adaptor plate?

quote Originally posted by Howard_Sacks: First, it's nice to see someone developing a manual transaxle solution for high-powered applications. Second, why not just bolt up a NSX engine once you've gone through all the work to get the tranny in and forget the adaptor plate?

As so often as different engines from different, even foreign donors, are suggested here on the Forum, it probably wouldn't be a big thing to put in the 3.2 all aluminum alloy V6 into a Fiero. But people aren't putting the NSX V6 into Fieros are they? They're putting 3800 SC, SBC, 4.9 Cadillac V8, Northstars, Chevy 4.3 V6s etc.

The short answer is that we wouldn't want to have to figure out how to meld a wiring harness from GM to Acura when GM can be a challenge all by itself. Getting the tranny to work and fit is proving to be a challenge all by itself.

to the favorites it goes

According to a Honda buddy of mine....Any HONDA / ACURA 6 spd tranny is interchangable with each other. Only the gearing is different. So these could be Vigor / Accord trannies...which are relatively cheaper to find.

WCF should sell the "conversion" kit for these trannies.

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1984 Indy Fiero 3.4L 4spd
www.cardomain.com/id/donk_316

Member of the Redbar Brigade

do these have an internal hydralic throwout bearing? (in the bearing?)

Since it took me 6 weeks to finally receive my shift select cable, I don't believe I will be ordering a new transaxle any time soon.
sorry

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EMFORCE
'88 Formula (Silver)
3.4 L, 5-speed
Performance tires/wheels, sound system, electrics, exhaust, etc.
(New Mr. Mike's seats- Italian design))

quote Originally posted by donk316: According to a Honda buddy of mine....Any HONDA / ACURA 6 spd tranny is interchangable with each other. Only the gearing is different. So these could be Vigor / Accord trannies...which are relatively cheaper to find. WCF should sell the "conversion" kit for these trannies.

For the same reason that we don't sell 3800 SC engines, it would be possible to do as you suggest. The modifications to the tranny case and cradle can be done by the customer.

The clutch set up for it will be adapted to use the stock slave cylinder and this particular tranny will be using a dual disk set up.

There should be an update coming soon with axle set ups and cable linkages.
We're currently waiting for our cables....

Anthony
West Coast Fiero

quote Originally posted by WKDFIRO: For the same reason that we don't sell 3800 SC engines, it would be possible to do as you suggest. The modifications to the tranny case and cradle can be done by the customer. Anthony West Coast Fiero

Do you mean it wouldnt be possible and cant be done by the customer? Is that what you meant to type?

I dont understand what your saying......yes or no is easiest for me to understand.

Don't forget the NSX transmission will be much stronger than an Accord transmission, even if they have the same bolt pattern.
If you're going to the trouble to mate a Honda transmission, get the best one, IMO.

Ill tell you all a quick story about honda/acura manual transmissions. A local import "tuner" built a civic hatch race car, and last weekend it went 9.80 at 154 mph. Yes, it has some traction issues, but the engine is making over 900 hp and 700 ft lbs of torque. I found out that he is using a STOCK TRANSMISSION!!! he has one badass clutch/flywheel setup, but the transmission itself is stock. The only thing on the market that claims to hold up to the power level he is pushing costs over $15k. So he decided to run the stock trans to get the setup going and see what the tranny could handle. Its lasted probably 15 passes over the past month, and no tranny probs yet. Im impressed, considering we blew a getrag 282 all over the track in a 3800SC fiero that went 13.80.

fwd
lot less load on the trans
had to be mighty light too

Yeah, while it does sound stronger, the Fiero will launch harder than a comparable FWD car, so that's going to be more abusive to parts. Still, this makes the NSX transmission sound like a great option once the swap is finalized.

Anthony & WCF:

Is there a difference between the amount of slave travel the NSX clutch requires for proper engagement/disengagement, and the amount of available travel resulting from bolting up the NSX slave to the Fiero's stock hydraulic system? If so, what is your solution for this?

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his: 1985 2M6 SE
mostly stock, but becoming more my creation than GM's with each passing day

hers: 1984 2M4
upgrade to 86 wiring, Duke, and Isuzu in progress

[This message has been edited by dguy (edited 10-28-2004).]

I know this will be a far shot to ask, but if this goes good when do you guys plan on selling them? I think I'd be more inclined on taking a travel out there. I'll be a test mule for an 88

keep us updated.

quote Originally posted by dguy: Anthony & WCF: Is there a difference between the amount of slave travel the NSX clutch requires for proper engagement/disengagement, and the amount of available travel resulting from bolting up the NSX slave to the Fiero's stock hydraulic system? If so, what is your solution for this?

We will be using the Fiero slave cylinder since we are most likely going to be using as much of the stock Fiero clutch set up (Fiero flywheel, clutch disk, preasure plate) for the simplicity.

quote Originally posted by LoW_KeY I know this will be a far shot to ask, but if this goes good when do you guys plan on selling them? I think I'd be more inclined on taking a travel out there. I'll be a test mule for an 88

This first transaxle is a customer's and not the shop's prototype so we are technically already selling these transaxles, its just a matter of who wants to step up to the plate and pay for the transaxle itself.

[This message has been edited by WKDFIRO (edited 10-29-2004).]

quote Originally posted by WKDFIRO: The 3800 will most likely not have the maximum power to push the transaxle very hard. It is up to the customer to decide how far he wants to go later on in this project. What we are doing here is purely prototype mock ups for when the actual recipient Fiero arrives.

Do you need a high hp 3800???

3800 Turbo/Supercharged 6 speed Fiero GT......yep, that would be pretty impressive.

quote Originally posted by fieroX: Ill tell you all a quick story about honda/acura manual transmissions. A local import "tuner" built a civic hatch race car, and last weekend it went 9.80 at 154 mph. Yes, it has some traction issues, but the engine is making over 900 hp and 700 ft lbs of torque. I found out that he is using a STOCK TRANSMISSION!!! he has one badass clutch/flywheel setup, but the transmission itself is stock. The only thing on the market that claims to hold up to the power level he is pushing costs over $15k. So he decided to run the stock trans to get the setup going and see what the tranny could handle. Its lasted probably 15 passes over the past month, and no tranny probs yet. Im impressed, considering we blew a getrag 282 all over the track in a 3800SC fiero that went 13.80.

As we've gone over before... there was something very wrong with that transmission.
I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't use that as an example, since it's NOT a good example of the strength of the 282.

I've got a honder story. A client of mine had to replace his honda manual trans after each run before going to the xtrac.

Having said that, honda trans do take a lot of abuse and he was pushing 1300 horse.

I also have to agree with Will.

quote Originally posted by fieroX: Ill tell you all a quick story about honda/acura manual transmissions. A local import "tuner" built a civic hatch race car, and last weekend it went 9.80 at 154 mph. Yes, it has some traction issues, but the engine is making over 900 hp and 700 ft lbs of torque. I found out that he is using a STOCK TRANSMISSION!!! he has one badass clutch/flywheel setup, but the transmission itself is stock. The only thing on the market that claims to hold up to the power level he is pushing costs over $15k. So he decided to run the stock trans to get the setup going and see what the tranny could handle. Its lasted probably 15 passes over the past month, and no tranny probs yet. Im impressed, considering we blew a getrag 282 all over the track in a 3800SC fiero that went 13.80.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Don't forget the NSX transmission will be much stronger than an Accord transmission, even if they have the same bolt pattern. If you're going to the trouble to mate a Honda transmission, get the best one, IMO.

Why would the Accord trans be weaker than the NSX trans? If they're interchangeable, they're the same trans, just with different gearing. An MV5 282 is a bolt in swap for an MG2 282, and they're both the same strength, they just have different ratios.

quote Originally posted by Will: Why would the Accord trans be weaker than the NSX trans? If they're interchangeable, they're the same trans, just with different gearing. An MV5 282 is a bolt in swap for an MG2 282, and they're both the same strength, they just have different ratios.

Why would an Isuzu trans be weaker than a Getrag? If they're interghcangeable, they're the same trans, just with different gearing.
Right?

I'm assuming, of course, that Honda uses a stronger transmission in the NSX. Using the exact same transmission in the Accord would be overkill and a waste of money. If they are the same transmission, then a Hollander search will show you how many Accord transmissions will fit an NSX.

Same bolt pattern doesn't automatically mean same transmission.

Edit: After doing a few quick searches on Car-Part.com, I found that when searching for an Accord transmission, I could find them in various year Accords and Acura CLs. The NSX transmission was only found in NSXs. So it appears they are different.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 11-02-2004).]

Sorry for the delay in updates, I seem to be having a problem with PIP on this computer.

Still working on it and will get pictures up ASAP.