Are they the same. I know the MR2's are rear engined to.

I'l be the first here.. hehe.. Mr2's are Toyota's.. hoever the new Pontiac's may be Yota's... Fiero's are not. Fiero's are not rear engined, they are midengined. They were made in good ole US of A.. not in Detriot, but in Pontiac, MI. With the great US of A craftsmanship. Kinda wonder why so many broke. Mr2's are Jap wanna be Fieros. hehe.. but dont quote me on that and please do not flame me. Cuz if you dont see the 'comical' side of that, ok.

Speaking of MR2's being wannabe's. Anyone notice that the rear end of the new MR2's look quite a bit like the Fiero fastbacks?

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'85 GT "The GoCart"

Are MR2s wannabe Fieros or are Fieros wannabe MR2s?Or are they both wannabe Ferraris? Is a Camaro a stripper Trans Am? Why are Neons Badged as a Dodge and a Plymouth? And why does everyone think Fieros catch fire? Mine has several times, but I'm sure they all don't? Wooo! I'm drunk! Happy St. Pattys day.

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I am too Danny Boy!

Whats Camaro's excuse?

Or was that an honest question?!

I think that they are jelous of us for the looks, Fiero does look alot better then the MR2 BUT MR2's are ALOT faster then us and they know it and they usally brag alot.

Yes i do think new MR2's look like the fastback fieros

time to go back to bed
Kyle

Hold on about the MR2s being "ALOT" faster. Im 88 the last year of the fiero the 2 was a hair faster. Yes in 8 years the newer MR2s are alot faster but what is not. A (Ford) Taurus can go 0-60 faster too. In 88 a Fiero GT or Formula was not as slow in the auto world as it is today. According to Road & Track 4/88 a 88 Formula was faster 0-60, 0-100, faster top speed, better skid pad grip, faster through the slalom, and faster on a race track. if you compare apples to apples the Fiero is not that slow. Add a $3500 turbo to a low milage Fiero and lets see how fast that MR2 is. This is not meant to flame anyone just my observations.
****Please note the comparison was a normally asperated MR2 super charged MR2s were about 1sec quicker.******

[This message has been edited by Bill H (edited 03-18-2001).]

You can stuff a V-8 in a Fiero and still have a trunk.

Didja see the MR2 with the Turbine engines sticking out the back? Try driving that past your friendly neighborhood Traffic cop!

Mr2's have a lighter Feeling to them
Fiero's Feel more Durable
MR2 is a scalple
Fiero is an Axe
They both perform the same tasks , one does it with more precision.

Fiero's Hot Rodding ability far makes up for any short comings it has...Last true Hot rod-able car to come off an assembly line?. I don't think their is another car that has so many engines swapped into it.

JM

It was a question but Im not as stupid as you think. I know Fieros are midengined but I just didnt catch myself. I only asked because I dont know **** about MR2's. As far as being the last hotrod...Ummmmm, no.

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91'RS 305TBI no mods to date
92' Lumina 275,000 miles and still humping!!!!

I would have to agree with Camaro on being the last Hot Rod...the Camaro and Firebirds and Mustangs still have a lot of go fast parts that can be added and even go faster engines that can be dropped in.

However in the world of compact cars Fiero is unique in its compatability and versatility. Hondas and the other imports are primarily our competition, and recently the Neons, and Fords are starting to get into the thick of the fight.

No one expects a Fiero to do anything at the stoplight. "We're the other guys..." (Mystery Men) But its soooooooo much fun to pound some respect into a Honda and even the MR-2s.

Actually it was quoted a while back in a Hot Rod magazine that the fiero was the last real hot rod of a car. The camaro ..gee small block ..big block ...Ohhh the decisions.

Fiero
Quad 4
Turbo 2.0ltr sun bird
2.8 , 3.1 3.4
3800
4.3
Grand national
3.8 SC
small block
Short star
4.0ltr aurora
4.6 N*
LS1
Good old Small block

The article went on to talk about how Mustangs and Camaro's don't really fall into the category...there are 20 billion camaro's on the road , half of them the same thing ..same theme. The Fiero is such a flexible platform for HP applications.

Going to have to agree with the tech editor on Hot Rod on this one.

Sure there are lots of mods for a Camaro ...yee haa.. The streets of my city are riddled with Camaro's and Mustangs running small blocks , big blocks , Nos ..blah blah Blah ..just boring IMHO..

I will be glad to scan tyhe article for anyone who wants to read it.

JM

I live in Australia...my Fiero is an eye grabber...No one looks twice at MR2s, there a dime a dozen.

My insurance company has upped the value of my Fiero since last year by lots...bet the MR2 values didn't rise.

My Fiero is one of the not many with t-tops...not one of millions with t-tops.

But best of all....My Fiero V6 sounds like a sports car and not a rice burner.

Am I beig bias here?

not bias at all.. just truthful

I agree with everyone.Wow.

I have to give my OPINION on this. https://www.fiero.nl/uploads/Fierotime.jpg
Thats a fiero beating a mustang.Mr2's are a total copy of a fiero.And as far as them being faster.There are 2 of them in my neighbor hood.They always want to race and I have yet to lose to them.They are also a lot uglier than a fiero and in my opinion don't drive even close as good as a fiero does.And last I wouldn't even compare mustangs and camaros to a fiero. They are a dime a dozen. You can't go five minutes without seeing one.And there is no way that they have as many upgrades as fieros.Thats my OPINION on that

I can agree with that definition of Hot Rod. I don't follow it as such but I can see the direction of it.

I don't recall anyone putting a V8 into a Fiero...jet turbines yes....V8s....no....

Also, welcome to the Aussie! Is he the first one on the Forum or is he just the first one to admit to it? lol

you mean you don't know of anyone putting v8 in Mr2's

O.K., By my name you can tell I'm biased towards Camaros. I own one. The reason you see so many mustangs, camaros, and firebirds are because they sell. Any car that sells will continue to sell. Pontiac screwed up when they tried to up the ante on the Fiero and ran out of money. The reason we dont use as many engines as yall is because in stock trim they came with nice engines. Most Fieroer's(Cool, I made up a word) would die to have a small block shoved between those quarter panels. There is no need to downgrade from a 305,350,LT1,LS1, to a 3.8 or a quad four. Its also cheaper to sup up an already installed V8 then put in a northsar. Although it has been done. There may be a million camaros out here but few that are in awesome shape. Oh yeah, my camaro in stock trim could take a Fiero GT. I dont everyone to get pissed at me, but if you want to see an awesome message board, go to thirdgen.org. With over 6500 members, I've never found a better board. We also have quite a few GM master techs that post there. Let me reitterate that I love the little
mid-engined we call "Fiero" to.

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91'RS 305TBI no mods to date
92' Lumina 275,000 miles and still humping!!!!

[This message has been edited by LottaBallsCamaro (edited 03-18-2001).]

Well I'll just say this. In 1986 I bought a 1986 SE with the V-6 and 4-spd. I had no problem passing an F-body that had a stock 305 in it. Even with the TPI set-up on a 305 it was a weak motor. The only time the F-body cars screamed past me is when they started putting in the 350 engines.
The 305's were only pushing 165-185hp (mid to late 80's) in a 3500lbs car. That means that the F-body had about 18.9 pounds for every 1hp. The Fiero had 17.6. That 1.5 pounds less per hp is a very large difference!

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 03-18-2001).]

Heres a list of the engines that have come in Fbodys since 1982(first year of the 3rd gen)
2.5TBI 90-92hp 82-86
2.8carb 102hp 82-84
2.8MPFI 135hp 85-89
3.1MPFI 140hp 90-92
3.4MPFI 160hp 93-95
3.8turbo MPFI Dont know
3.8 200hp 96-
305Cross Fire Injection 165hp 240ftlb 82
305carb 145-165hp 250ftlb 82-87
305TBI 150-170hp 240-255ftlb 88-92
305TPI 190-205hp 240-285ftlb 85-92
347(LS1)305-325hp 335-350ftlb 98-
350TPI 230-245hp 300-345ftlb 86-92
350PFI(LT1)270-285hp 325ftlb 93-97
And thats just from the factory.
Your right that the Fbodys came with some crappy engines but so has every GM car. You must be a good ****ing driver to beat any TPI car considering I whipped the **** out of my friends 85GT 2.8 with my 170hp 255ftlb CAMARO

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91'RS 305TBI no mods to date
92' Lumina 275,000 miles and still humping!!!!

[This message has been edited by LottaBallsCamaro (edited 03-18-2001).]

[This message has been edited by LottaBallsCamaro (edited 03-18-2001).]

[This message has been edited by LottaBallsCamaro (edited 03-18-2001).]

I have to agree with oreif.The only camaro that ever beat me was the ones with 350's in them.Also true that there was a lot of engines that they came with. But most of those engines were barely diffrent from one another.One little part change on the engine gave the engine a new name.Of course you'll get a lot of diffrent engines that way.

This reminds me....

The other day I was showing my Fiero to a good friend of mine. (I don't think he had looked at one closly before) and hes says "Hmm... Looks kinda like a MR2.." Im like DOh' =) I really expected nothing less from a guy who prefers imports, not ricey mind you, just imported... LOL

Ive got a firebird, it WILL take my fiero, but there is a distinct advantage to the fiero, it gets about 20 mpg in the city, the firebird gets 12, on premium. My bird is a 73 formula, pontiac powered by the way. (Death to the SBC) I am trying to come up with the funds to install a 3.8 liter supercharged in the fiero. When this is complete I am expecting low 13's in the 1/4 and 28+ mpg. that will whoop the crap out of my firebird, or any new firebird for that matter, transam, slowmaro, mustang or corvette also. And it will get better gas mileage. Theres no real reason to get in fights over whos car is faster, to each their own. But one more point I will make, the other night I raced a late 80's early 90's RS camaro, dont know if it was an auto or manual, but Im 90% sure it was a 305, btw I have a 87 fiero with a 85 2.8 liter v6, and he didnt even have a chance. All he saw was my taillights getting smaller and smaller.

OREIF-You say you raced your new 86GT against a new camaro but they didnt start going faster then you till they came out with the 350TPI, well considering 86 was the first year they had them I'd say you were racing an older camaro.By the way, Camaros weighed closer to 3300 then

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91'RS 305TBI no mods to date
92' Lumina 275,000 miles and still humping!!!!

[This message has been edited by LottaBallsCamaro (edited 03-18-2001).]

[This message has been edited by LottaBallsCamaro (edited 03-18-2001).]

quote Originally posted by LottaBallsCamaro: O.K., By my name you can tell I'm biased towards Camaros. I own one. The reason you see so many mustangs, camaros, and firebirds are because they sell.

Camaro's sell?? Me thinks not , thats why their due to be axed in 2002 , Mustangs maybe but even still their margins are low , they outsell Camaro's nearly 3 to 1. Camaro's from the 80's-early 90's were dogs (no offense) we have owned an 84 Trans am 15th anniversary ..sold it after 6 months , 89 GTA a little better , but still understeered like a pig and it's detuned L98 Vette motor was nothing like the motor in a real vette.

Your RS take a Fiero GT?? I can show you several Video's of My 86 GT 4spd beating our 89 GTA at the strip. I have raced a number of Mid 80's F bodies , only ones that are really fast are the Old 1LE cars. I can show you stock time slips for an 86 GT that runs 15.3

88 IROC 305 15.7 @ 90
89 1LE Camaro 5.7 15.2 @ 94
92 Z28 5.0ltr 16.0

We have had quite a few over the years , the GTA's best was 15.6 in the 1/4 mile. it's an automatic. The 84 15th anniversary car ran a dismal 16.6

I would be glad to make a Couple Avi's for people to see the GTA and Fiero.

I don't think GM ran out of money on the Fiero project ..I think they ran into politics. If it was a money issue the corvette would have been gone 20 years ago. The Fiero almost doubled the Corvette's sales every year it was produced. This is just aprox off the top of my head but the 88 Corvette sold 28,000 units in a full production run , the Fiero sold 26,000 in half the time. The car made a profit every year it was produced. I used to work for GM marketing dept according to people their the Corvette was sponsored by the CK truck division for the longest time , the CK division being the main bread winner in the GM family.

All in all I like both cars..both great platforms for performance , the Camaro's strong following makes it a great source for aftermarket ad ons. The fiero's a great platform for engine swaps.

To each his own
JM

The 1LE option had nothing to do with the engine. It included 12in corvette brakes up front. a better baffle in the gas tank to prevent starvation under hard braking, and an alluminum driveshaft. I doubt the alluminum driveshaft makes that muc of a diiference. 91-92Z28 350's are capable of mid 14's stock. 88 305's had 190hp and 240ftlb. 92 305z's had 205hp and 285ftlb of torque. Thats 15more hp and 45 more ftlb. Either someone cant drive worth a **** or someone doesnt know there numbers. GM didnt want pontiac to build the Fiero at all. Pontiac had been asking for one since the 70's and GM finally allowed them as long as they would use mostly off the shelf parts. When they revised the Fiero for 89(or was it 88) They spent to much and the people who had been buying them bought them because they were thought of as commuter cars, so they didnt sell. As far as taking shots at the corvette, it is the flagship of chevy and they wouldnt cancel it. Also its a pricyer car so obviously its not going to sell as much.

V8FIEROGT- I beg to differ about the different engines. I consider an entirely different fuel system, different heads, and cams make a pretty big difference

SLAMMEDFIERO- I was talking about the 80's when there were over 100,000 sold each year, sometimes over 200,000.

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91'RS 305TBI no mods to date
92' Lumina 275,000 miles and still humping!!!!

[This message has been edited by LottaBallsCamaro (edited 03-19-2001).]

[This message has been edited by LottaBallsCamaro (edited 03-19-2001).]

[This message has been edited by LottaBallsCamaro (edited 03-19-2001).]

[This message has been edited by LottaBallsCamaro (edited 03-19-2001).]

quote Originally posted by LottaBallsCamaro: OREIF-You say you raced your new 86GT against a new camaro but they didnt start going faster then you till they came out with the 350TPI, well considering 86 was the first year they had them I'd say you were racing an older camaro.By the way, Camaros weighed closer to 3300 then

First, It's an SE. Which is slightly lighter than a GT. As for the F-bodies, Most were Firebirds that friends had that I raced. They were all 305's. Weight listed above is for an 86 Trans Am. I know the regular camaro's and regular firebirds were slightly lighter than the T/A and Z28 versions.
Like I said previously, The F-body cars didn't start going faster until the 350's were put in.

As for the stopping of the Fiero, It was a GM corporate decision to stop the program so they could make vans. The Fiero project was the best money maker GM had from 84 thru 87. It was part of the contract (Fiero employee's owned the plant not GM) That they had to sell 30,000 cars per year to keep the plant open. Corporate office (GM) cut the advertising budget by 70%. So all the new changes they designed into the Fiero for the 88 model year were not widely known.
The Fiero project management was restricted from doing many things. After the Fiero was cancelled, The same management was then given the Saturn program. But due to all the problems that corporate caused them on the Fiero, They negotiated the contract and now Saturn is the most profitable. Also, have you ever noticed that Saturn doesn't use any "off-the-shelf" parts from other GM cars? They don't even use GM engines. They (Saturn) basically wanted unrestricted control and they got it.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 03-19-2001).]

All of these hp and torque figures are coming straight out of a chiltons and have been considered pretty pessimistict. I dont agree that you could take any of the tpi cars and i was quoting z28 weights. A 2.8 Fiero could take any carbed, cfi(cross fire injection) I4, or v6, But i seriously doubt they could take anything else alotough it would be close with the 305's

[This message has been edited by LottaBallsCamaro (edited 03-19-2001).]

Stop doubting.It's true.A fiero can beat a 305. Seen it done many times and the fiero almost always won.

I can walk over ANY 305 RS carbed Camaro, and can give my buddies 305 TPI Iroc a damn good run as well.

LOAFER87GT- I just said you could take any carbed camaro you wanted but not any of the TBI or TPI cars.

PONTIACSFORME- your comparing a 73 firebirds MPG and an 86 fiero. UHHHH, no **** it weighs like a thousand pounds less and it and its over a decade worth of improvements older

By the way, I get 22 MPG in my 91 RS.

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91'RS 305TBI no mods to date
92' Lumina 275,000 miles and still humping!!!!

Dude, get over it. We don't care how blazingly fast your completly stock 305TBI (which is still a dog) camaro is. You do realize that this is a Fiero forum, don't you? You might want to try www.thirdgen.org or www.ls1.com if you're looking for somebody to agree with you.

305 ?! Haha. What a joke. I stopped racing them a while ago. I had a bone stock 3.4 with stock everything and I could take a 305 by 2 car lengths. Now that I have more mods its not even worth my effort. There just loud redneck cars with all bark and no bite.

back to the point at hand:

has anyone, other than myself, noticed that the comercial with all the 2nd generation mr2s driving in the desert? whats up with that? is that a old comercial thats being reaired?

btw, 10 years ago, when i first got my stock '86.5 gt (and gave a damn about racing people), i used to constantly take camero's/firebirds and yes, even rustangs. i disovered that most of the people that drive these things, only care about one thing and one thing only... burning rubber. they often don't understand that when you "stomp" the peddle all you do is waste power and traction (not to mention tires)... therefore, they often got left at the light (or allowed me that tiney bit of time to gain some distance).

also, most of these people, dont understand the first thing about driving through turns/curve's or twisty's. proof of this was given the time i raced a 308 (thats a Ferrari) back through the country roads... he would pull away easily on the straights, but i would always catch back up in the curve's!

that was fun!

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hoop
Red '86 GT
KYB's, Eibach's,
Poly Bushings

Look, I know my 305 isnt the fastest thing in the world but fieros arent the **** either. I post here and on Thirdgen.org because I love GM cars. My friend with the 85GT is the person that turned me on to Fieros. Fieros are fun little cars with alot of go but its just, I dont think they could take a 305fi . As far as a lot of bark and no bite, If the fiero is faster then its by just a few tenths so that means your almighty fiero is a pos to. If you think all we know how to do is burn rubber then go to thirdgen.org and read some of the posts. I think your lack of brain matter would get ran around in circles. Theres alot of guys up there running 11's. How many of yall have even broke into the 12's. Who gives a **** about a straight line anyway, how about a road course, You could really show off your chevette suspension then! I not tring to get into a spitting fight ok. We should just be worring about those ****ing jap cars that think there the **** , so lets just stop this. Have a nice day and when i finally get my GT I'll tell you first hand which is faster. Lets rag on some MR2's!!!

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91'RS 305TBI no mods to date
92' Lumina 275,000 miles and still humping!!!!

I love watching the graceful Camaros grip those corners, it must be because of their wonderful suspension and perfect weight distribution. They almost resemble a lotus, mwa ha ha ha

Ok things seem to be heating up.
I have resisted posting this ..but here goes

My friends 86 Firebird 2.8 5spd is faster than his 87 305 formula bird ..don't ask me why ..both cars are mint , non winter driven cars , but drag race them and the 2.8 beats the 305 by a hair ..but it still beats it every time

jm

"EXACTLY" good one mike.

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88 Formula T-top
85 GT Turbo