And you a scared skanc like pussy hiding behind a keyboard pretending to be a man.
Awwww aren't you cute when you get called out for being the liar you are.
Now I noticed in your pathetic rant you failed to tell us how exactly the US being an ally with Israel is a violation of the constitution. You can't. Thats why you didn't. But its easier for you to lash out like a grade school girl then actually back up your bs. And when confronted you send a thread straight to the trashcan. And I bet your next move will be to play the victim. Maybe even threaten me with violence again. Or threaten to get the law on me. Or cry about how I'm making it hard for you to live from the stress.
Speaking of being a man you taking care of your kids yet bill or are they still selling of things to make ends meet?
The Republicans took power of the House in 1994 and with election of Bush took the Executive in 2000. They had total control of both for six more years and during those years nothing happened in the government unless it was Republican-approved. The Democrats were completely shut out of government. Except for a very few token (and relatively trivial) bills, for all intents and purposes there has no Democratic input into the government of this country since then. Even now, since the 2006 elections, it's been essentially a stalemate with the Republicans blocking and sabotaging anything the Democrats try to do. So, it is literally true and factually correct to state that everything we are now as a nation is directly a result of eight to fourteen years of Republican leadership. It has been more than eight years since the Democrats have had a meaningful presence in our government, fourteen years since the Republicans gained enough power to do whatever they wanted.
We handed Bush a nation that was not at war, a nation with a balanced budget, a nation that was paying down our national debt and therefor opening up our options for our future fiscal health as a nation. We handed the Republicans a healthy nation where everyone was increasing their wealth, not just the top five percent. And like an ignorant child with an expensive toy, our nation has been damaged badly, perhaps even beyond repair.
The Republican party may have had some good people in it in the past, but starting with Reagan it's had nothing but crooks, liars, deceivers, and traitors.
JazzMan
Thats kind of a silly opst, each side claims this about the other, when actually there are long lasting effects from the previous side. I hope Jesse Ventura runs, I'd vote for him, this 2 party thing we got goin is trashing us all.
Just cant let it go can you Skanc? I thought I told you to never quote me in reply, in fact I know I told you but apparently you like being the little attention whore hell bent on trashing threads to fill that lonely jealous void in your pathetic anger filled life.
Originally posted by ktthecarguy: Precisely. Or, I can drive to Illinois. It's not that far. Either way be prepared to back up your words like a man, or STFU
...Weren't you the one calling me a bully? I don't think you know what that means...
But I'll tell you what...Threaten me again, and I will be taking your posts and PM that I've printed out to the authorities. Internet threats (besides being totally stupid) are illegal and are actionable. You WILL be arrested if you continue and force me to turn these in. The discussion is LONG over, there is no more reason to post, and your threats will land you in jail.
Like you said; "you couldn't treat me this way in person, so what makes you think I'd let you treat me that way online?"
Originally posted by Phranc: So no your weak attempt to smear the IDF is nothing more then a real understanding of the situation. But given your use of the word neocon I highly doubt you care about understanding or honesty in the mater.
Really? I have a "real understanding" of the situation? Since you seem to be quite unfamiliar with warfare, I wil keep brevity in saying only that there is a difference between our air strikes against targets in civilian areas and IDF's attacking of civilian targets.
The distinction is made between the two weapons of choice: Discriminatory, accurate weapon: JDAM
Weapon no more discriminant than chemical and biological weapons: Cluster munitions
There were also white phosphorous attacks on civilian areas as well: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/777549.html The US also used whiskey-pete in Iraq and civilian casualties were found in both cases.
Hezbollah has nothing to do with it. Civilians are not Hezbollah operatives, so why in the hell are you defending IDF's cluster bombing of the innocent? Why don't you be a good example of "intellectual honesty" and first practice it before you lecture myself in it? Just because Hezbollah commits murder of the innocent does not mean it is suddenly fine and dandy for IDF to do so. People step on unexploded munitions all the time, just like mines in Bosnia and friends.
But I see that since you have to revert to ad hominem so soon you would have nothing but more ad hominem for the remainder of our discussion time.
[This message has been edited by AP2k (edited 05-15-2008).]
Don't forget Bush's good buddy Saddam Hussein, and too bad the youngsters here have done clean forgot about Daddy Bush and Reagan's selling missiles to the terrorists in Iran so that they could circumvent (treason) the law to send money to fund the Contra terrorists/rapists/murderers in south America.
No, this Obama smear is just another masturbation fest by the crackpot far-right nutwangers that have given the Republicans such a nasty, filthy reputation over the last few years.
JazzMan
And the younger people here have probably never even heard about W Bushes grandfather, and HW Bushes daddy, Prescott Bush. A real American patriot, who should not be forgotten. Go ahead, Google him. I'll wait.
Speaking of traitors:
quote
How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power
Rumours of a link between the US first family and the Nazi war machine have circulated for decades. Now the Guardian can reveal how repercussions of events that culminated in action under the Trading with the Enemy Act are still being felt by today's president
By Ben Aris in Berlin and Duncan Campbell in Washington The Guardian, Saturday September 25 2004
George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany. The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.
His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of controversy.
The evidence has also prompted one former US Nazi war crimes prosecutor to argue that the late senator's action should have been grounds for prosecution for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
The debate over Prescott Bush's behaviour has been bubbling under the surface for some time. There has been a steady internet chatter about the "Bush/Nazi" connection, much of it inaccurate and unfair. But the new documents, many of which were only declassified last year, show that even after America had entered the war and when there was already significant information about the Nazis' plans and policies, he worked for and profited from companies closely involved with the very German businesses that financed Hitler's rise to power.It has also been suggested that the money he made from these dealings helped to establish the Bush family fortune and set up its political dynasty.
Remarkably, little of Bush's dealings with Germany has received public scrutiny, partly because of the secret status of the documentation involving him. But now the multibillion dollar legal action for damages by two Holocaust victims against the Bush family, and the publication of three books on the subject are threatening to make Prescott Bush's business history an uncomfortable issue for his grandson, George W. More than 60 years after Prescott Bush came briefly under scrutiny at the time of a faraway war, his grandson is facing a different kind of scrutiny but one underpinned by the same perception that, for some people, war can be a profitable business.
Oh, its only those damn Jews causing trouble AGAIN. Much, much more here, if anyone cares.
[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 05-15-2008).]
I just read the whole story in your link. Funny thing is it was written to spin the story the way they wanted it to be spun. There are way too many assumptions and inaccurate facts. If you use the logic that the story spins then you also need to prosecute Al Gore (then a senator) and Oliver North for the 9/11 attacks. Both of them are the ones responsible for bringing Osama Bin Laden to power during the Russian invasion of Afghanastan. If they did not support him against Russia, he would never have gained the power he now has and we would not have the same terrorist problems we have today.
While the Nazi Party/Third Reich are considered the "evil power" due to the parties actions, In the late 20's and early 30's the Nazi party was initially considered to be a good thing for Germany. The Treaty of Versailles basically sent Germany into a deep depression. Most Germans struggled to make ends meet. The Nazi party gained power by promising to bring the country out of depression. Once Hitler was appointed Chancellor of Germany by president Paul von Hindenburg in 1933, Many things changed for the positive initially. The problem was by the late 30's when Hitler's own racist views and ability to use propaganda as an effective weapon came to light, It was too late to stop it. The "monster" had grown and was still gaining momentum.
According to the story in the link, Prescott Bush was involved with the steel companies back in 1924. While the companies he was involved with did aid in the economic recovery of Germany and Hitler's rise to power, Do you really think that they knew Hitler was as corrupt and evil as history has proven? Once the companies were deeply involved, and the original German industrialist, Fritz Thyssen had fallen for Hitler's propaganda, Do you really think it was that easy for the U.S. investors and companies involved to drop them? They were heavily involved finacially. Hitler was very cleaver in hiding the fact he was building his war machines. The tiger tanks were built just across the German border in Russia, The U-boat sub pens were built into a cliff side and hidden from view. Per the treaty of Versailles, Germany could not build war machines. So many factories and businesses were camuflaged and run by folks like Thyssen who became mesmerised by Hitler's propoganda. Do you really think Thyssen told the U.S. investors and companies what they were using the steel for? Once it came to light what was going on, Do you really think the U.S. companies involved had a chance to cut and run before the U.S. government got involved?
Maybe they should go after France and Birtain, If they didn't put such an economic strain on Germany, the Nazi party would have never come to power as strong as they did. Actually, by the same tolken, They should go after Britain for being the other half of the cause for starting WWI. If they didn't start WWI, They would not have had to make a treaty and thus cause WWII.
If you read the story it just shows that Prescott Bush wasn't very smart and got hooked into the financial/political mess because of his greed. While it wasn't very smart when you look back on it, At that time the U.S. had our own depression going on and finacial greed was had by many companies seeking to stay afloat. How is what happen back then any different than the U.S. companies that invested in middle-east oil? (including the Bush family!) They basically caused the arab nations to gain money and power. Saudi families made huge amounts of money and gained power. As they say, "Power Corrupts" and the Bin Laden Family made billions.
You can spin facts anyway you want AFTER something has happened. But just because now we know what evil lurked inside Hitler, does not mean those involved knew it back then anymore then we knew Osama would one day turn against us.
What companies are folks investing in right now that 10-15 years from now could be involved in some political scandal or cause the deaths?
does not mean those involved knew it back then anymore then we knew Osama would one day turn against us.
And we had justification for giving billions to the Mujahideen why? Its not quite the same: one case has a private industrialist aiding (for arguement's sake, unwittingly) Hitler's rise to power, and the other case has the CIA aiding bin Laden's rise to power.
one case has a private industrialist aiding (for arguement's sake, unwittingly) Hitler's rise to power,
"For arguments sake"??? First Bush became part of the industry because of his Father-in-law. He did not start the company himself. Second, When he became vice-president of A. Harriman & Co in 1924, Hitler was in prison!
Thyssen had been an early financial backer of the Nazi party, but by 1939 was bitterly denouncing Hitler and had fled Germany. He was later jailed by the Nazis for his opposition to the Nazi regime. By 1941 Thyssen no longer had control over his business empire, which was in the hands of the Nazi government. They were the ones who were dealing with the UBC.
Finally, the U.S. government ordered the seizure of German banking operations in New York City under the Trading with the Enemy Act. The order cited the Union Banking Corporation (UBC), of which Bush was a director and held only one share. He was not the president of the company. That was Cornelis Lievense.
So let's see, the link above notes that Bush was a "director" and "shareholder" with companies associated with Thyssen. The UBC which happen to be associated with the CSSC and thus associated with Thyssen who supported the Nazi party because he knew Germany needed to get out of the depression, is the "Link to Hitler" that the article spins about Prescott Bush supporting Hitler's rise to power. Isn't that like the "six degrees of Kevin Bacon" theory?
EDIT: BTW ~ The other party involved with Thyssen were the Rockefellers. Everyone says the Bush family got their money from aiding the Nazi's, Well the Rockefellers made a lot of their money from Thyssen as well. In fact the Chase Bank today was formed out of the 31% of Thyssen's holdings that were released after the war and given back to the registered partner, Rockefeller! So if you have a Chase bank account or a Chase sponsored credit card, You are associated with a company that supported the Nazi's as well. Conspiracy theorist unite !!
If you go by that theory, Then how did we get a "double" traitor as president now? I mean GW's grandfather was Prescott Bush who "supported Hitler" and his mother Barbra Bush is Barbra Pierce who is the direct decendant of Franklin Pierce. Our 14th President who supported the Confederacy and helped Jefferson Davis become the confederate president, was the first president to hit someone while being DUI, and is historically known as one of America's worst and most unproductive presidents. So we have a president who on his father side of the family supported Hitler which gave us WWII and on his mother's side supported confederacy causing our own civil war!
Oh wait, That's right this thread is about Barrack Obama being supported by terrorists. So let's go with Barrack Obama spent some of his youth in Jakarta which is mostly Islamic in religion, (Obama is not Islamic.) Palestinians and the Hamas group follow the Islamic religion. Since the afore mentioned groups dislike GW for his actions, policies, and attitudes of how the mideast has been treated and Barrack Obama lived in a mostly Islamic country and attended Islamic run schools, It only makes sense that they would prefer Obama.
Or better yet, Obama's former law firm did some work for Rezmar Corp. Rezmar is part of a group building a power plant in Iraq and are using Jordanian banks for the financing. Jordan is the country that kicked out Palestinians which caused the PLO to be formed. The Hamas took power over the PLO after Arafat passed on. So there would be no Hamas without the PLO, No PLO without Jordan kicking out the Palestinians. Rezmar is assisting Jordan financially by utilizing their banking system, and Obama's former law firm has done work for Rezmar. By connecting the dots, (Obama to Rezmar to Jordan to the PLO to the Hamas) Hamas is supporting the U.S. candidate who is associated with how they came to power. Right?
I can spin it other ways as well. The point is, It is all because you can spin it 100 different ways. The best way to spin it is the way it will get the most attention towards the authors cause. Personally, I prefer to do my own research and form my own opinions about the presidential candidates. All of these stories they blast thru the media are not designed to get the "facts" out, They are out to grab attention and cause contraversy so that the media source can get their biased opinion out to their like minded readers and make more money.
[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 05-16-2008).]
And we had justification for giving billions to the Mujahideen why? Its not quite the same: one case has a private industrialist aiding (for arguement's sake, unwittingly) Hitler's rise to power, and the other case has the CIA aiding bin Laden's rise to power.
You have to consider the world, at the time. We were still in the middle of a cold war with the Soviet Union. Everyone was afraid that the next war would be between them and the U.S., and that nukes could be involved. We wanted to help defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan. As it turns out, our efforts helped the Afghanis defeat the Soviets, and it was a factor that led to the fall and breakup of the Soviet Union.
If you want to know more about this, go rent "Charlie Wilson's War". It is very informative about those times.
Exactly. Bin Laden (as Saddam Hussein) once was friendly with the US and our interests (not talking oil here). Heck, Saddam Hussein was given the "keys to the city" in Detroit, before anyone knew he was the type of person he turned out to be. Bin Laden was plenty friendly, too...When we were supporting him.
When Kuwait asked for help, Bin Laden was offended they didn't ask him. He felt his (US-backed) troops were enough to fight off Iraq, and he felt that it would be better for his Islamic group to try (and lose if necessary) than to have "infidels" on their soil. Yeah, this is all about a spoiled little oil brat getting butt-hurt because his neighbors called in the big dog for help, instead of asking him. In the "intelligent" thinking of an extremist's mind; "Jihad on the infidels!". In reality...He's just butt-hurt.
Originally posted by Oreif: "For arguments sake"???
Ohh, so you know Prescott Bush personally and he told you that he had no idea Hitler was a racist? Prescott Bush became involved in 1924, and continued until 1942.
Fun fact: Mein Kampf was published in 1925, one year after Prescott Bush started dealing with the Germans.
quote
Originally posted by fierobear: You have to consider the world, at the time. We were still in the middle of a cold war with the Soviet Union. Everyone was afraid that the next war would be between them and the U.S., and that nukes could be involved. We wanted to help defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan. As it turns out, our efforts helped the Afghanis defeat the Soviets, and it was a factor that led to the fall and breakup of the Soviet Union.
If you want to know more about this, go rent "Charlie Wilson's War". It is very informative about those times.
The only scary thing about the "Red Scare" was the rust on the MiGs. I don't even know what you're pissing your pants over the nukes for since they had almost no nuclear delivery systems that could touch us without getting into Cuba or from Alaska. The entire reason they made Big Ivan was because there were no delivery systems, so they had to make the bomb bigger to ensure their bombers were well out of range of anti-aircraft fire and still hit their target. (The maximum range of the bomb with uranium tamper was ~120 miles.)
It turns out that our founding fathers outlining what we can and cannot do in the Constitution and their other writings would have saved us 3000 in New York, 4000 and counting in Iraq, and untold trillions that we have wasted bombing people the respective administrations just didn't like that day.
I know the times, and I know that the American people ate the propaganda up just like they do today. Thankfully I didn't live through them or I would probably be believing it, too. Its cool, Johnny, radiation can't get you under a desk.
quote
Originally posted by TRiAD: Exactly. Bin Laden (as Saddam Hussein) once was friendly with the US and our interests (not talking oil here). Heck, Saddam Hussein was given the "keys to the city" in Detroit, before anyone knew he was the type of person he turned out to be. Bin Laden was plenty friendly, too...When we were supporting him.
Originally posted by AP2k: The only scary thing about the "Red Scare" was the rust on the MiGs. I don't even know what you're pissing your pants over the nukes for since they had almost no nuclear delivery systems that could touch us without getting into Cuba or from Alaska. The entire reason they made Big Ivan was because there were no delivery systems, so they had to make the bomb bigger to ensure their bombers were well out of range of anti-aircraft fire and still hit their target. (The maximum range of the bomb with uranium tamper was ~120 miles.)
This is really curious. The Soviets beat us into space, had better heavy-lift capability until the Space Shuttle, and flew regular missions into space. Are you telling me their ICMBs were incapable of reaching the United States? Yes, I know about the Cuban missle crisis. We also had similarly threatening missles in Turkey. I believe that had to do with quick first strike capability, not because either side lacked a delivery method.
Ohh, so you know Prescott Bush personally and he told you that he had no idea Hitler was a racist? Prescott Bush became involved in 1924, and continued until 1942.
Fun fact: Mein Kampf was published in 1925, one year after Prescott Bush started dealing with the Germans.
No, I did not know Prescott Bush personally. But if you would take the time to do actual research you would find out that the Harriman bank that later merged with Brown Bros in 1931 then became the UBC. The president of the UBC was Cornelis Lievense who also happened to be on the board of directors of a Dutch bank, Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart, and that bank was owned by Fritz Thyssen.
So an industrialist who owns a few businesses, one being a dutch bank, Is going to tell his board of directors in a Dutch bank he's been scammed by an evil dictator? And if he does, Is one director who happens to be president of a U.S. bank (and 4 other companies) going to relay the same information to one of his directors in one of his banks?
That's what 3 degree's of seperation right? So for example let's say a bank director gets scammed into funding a local terrorist. The bank director happens to use software from a Neatherlands business. The owner of the software company happens to run an automotive forum that you are a member of. So does that mean you know for a fact that you are supporting a local terrorist? By a biased author who wants to spin it, You do. You know the software business owner and he knows the bank director, That's 3 degree's I'm sure the bank director has passed on thru the software owner to you about all his actions right?
Fun Facts: Mein Kampf was dictated to Rudolf Hess while Hitler was in prison in 1924. The book was only published in 1925 in Germany and only in German. How many books back then do you think were published in different languages for different countries??? Do you think Hitler got out of prison and thought he should send a copy of his book to a director of a bank in New York? Do you think he sent copies to say France and England?
The Bush family is being sued by 2 Auschwitz former slave labourers. Auschwitz is in Poland. It was opened in June of 1940. By May of 1940 the UBC assets were frozen by the U.S. government because Cornelis Lievense (president of the UBC) was charged with aiding the enemy Because he was on the board of directors of a Dutch bank that was no longer controlled by Thyssen, but taken over by the Nazi government AFTER they invaded. So how could Bush's family have ANY connection to Auschwitz?? By 1934 Thyssen was realizing that he was being scammed and in 1939 tried to run to Argentina, He was caught in occupied France in ealy 1940 and sent to prison.
Also the Bush family made its wealth/fortune, BEFORE Prescott Bush, in the railroad and U.S. steel companies. They did not get into politics until after the war.
Take a look at this link http://www.myspace.com/kafir_alalazoo and watch the first movie on the lower right called American Alienation. It makes you think and gets you to remember all the things that have been clouded over and forgotten. Hope some enjoy it. Rick B
Here is another you may like to see showing our men are proud to fight for our country. http://www.warriorsthefilm.com:80/Movie.html I feel all of those who hate our country should just leave and go to a better place instead of complaining and spewing hatred. No one is forceing people to stay especially when so many are flocking here daily and always have for a better life compared to most other places. Rick B
By the way since they should go after everyone,, Lets go after Ford motor company as they made the Tri motor planes and many other things for Hitler directly. Henry Ford was in Bed with him suppling many of his needs.
Most people also had no clue Hitler was going to do what he did so fast and were out of the picture when the war started. Time makes people start to tell many lies and make up many false stories,, Tell a lie long enough & it becomes truth. The ture story changes as it is re-written over time. Rick B
This is really curious. The Soviets beat us into space, had better heavy-lift capability until the Space Shuttle, and flew regular missions into space. Are you telling me their ICMBs were incapable of reaching the United States? Yes, I know about the Cuban missle crisis. We also had similarly threatening missles in Turkey. I believe that had to do with quick first strike capability, not because either side lacked a delivery method.
Of course they could reach us, but they didn't have nearly as good of guidance systems as we did. Our scooping up of von Braun after WW2 assured our lead. No guidance system would mean they couldn't hit a specific target. It would be folly of the highest caliber to make a first strike with a weapon that has crappy aim.
Of course they could reach us, but they didn't have nearly as good of guidance systems as we did. Our scooping up of von Braun after WW2 assured our lead. No guidance system would mean they couldn't hit a specific target. It would be folly of the highest caliber to make a first strike with a weapon that has crappy aim.
What they lacked in accuracy they made up for in yield.
From a Canadian's perspective, OBAMA seems totally sincere in his run for presidency. His views are totally different than bush's and McCain. With Bush's respect so low in America, no one will want to support McCain because McCain is an exact replica of Bush (just like a replica Ferarri on a Fiero :P). I predict that Obama will destroy McCain in votes come this fall/winter. I don't support Obama either (for personnal reasons in which I will undisclosed) but he is the way to go. Besides, Gas prices are way to high in keeping the war in Iraq. They spend 1 billion a month there and this includes fuel prices to power their war machines. This can be used on cars and machines here!
------------------ 1986 GT Fiero Owner & Enthusiast For Fiero updates, visit my site and don't forget to click on the ads! http://educatorstop15.we.bs/fieropage.htm
because you can spin it 100 different ways. The best way to spin it is the way it will get the most attention towards the authors cause. Personally, I prefer to do my own research and form my own opinions about the presidential candidates. All of these stories they blast thru the media are not designed to get the "facts" out, They are out to grab attention and cause contraversy so that the media source can get their biased opinion out to their like minded readers and make more money.
