Proves the point that the Cliff cheerleaders will now decend upon and vote me off the forum... Why don't you try to reason with that???
So, whenever somebody agrees with me, they are suddenly "Cliff cheerleaders"? So, if you ever get banned off the forum, that will be the reason? If you get booted off here, it's all at your own merit.
quote
You sold me down the river and now it's just a matter of time before my accept o meter reaches zero and you can ban me?
Actually, if I wanted you banned I could have done so. But don't worry. I won't ban you out of personal motivation. I'll add my negative to the stack, but that's it (and you are more than welcome to return the favor - that's what the rating system is for). And since the rating system works the way it is supposed to, I don't expect your rating to reach "critical" soon. The only reason someone gets banned without the rating bar saying so, is if he/she violates forum rules.
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Ever hear of PM??
Yep. And on several occasions you promised you would try to stay out of trouble. And yet I get complaint after complaint that you are setting up flamebaits everywhere (and not only from the people that disagree with you).
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I guess that would not get the result you are looking for.
Nope. You are still causing trouble.
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So go ahead and pummel me some more in open forum instead of offering your great wisdom in PM.
First the "Cliff cheerleaders", now the "great wisdom". As if other people can't think for themselves. Well, hate to break it to you, but people here can think for themselves. And the fact that people agree with me has nothing to do with me being the owner of this forum.
Nobody here "fears" the "great Cliff Pennock". Nobody here follows my lead. But they must be, since they disagree with you?
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I'd listen but you wont give me that CHANCE but thats obviously not your intention so you BLAST me in open forum. Again thanks.. I appriciate your efforts on this forum but I don't appriciate bringing your moniker & administative weight to bear upon me so the cheerleraders can whoup on me because I disagree with you or you with me.
Get over your paranoid self, Bill. We've had conversations in PM several times and I don't see anything changing in your attitude. Stop using me as excuse why you are getting negatives and why people don't like you. This post will land me some negatives too, and that's alright with me. Why? Because I understand and accept that people will disagree with me. And I won't put the blame anywhere else.
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By all means get pissed off at me for calling you a jerk because I'm pissed off that you sold me down the river.
Oh, that doesn't get me pissed off at all. I (and others) get pissed off at the fact you and "I'm Back" jump in threads and use your precious "freedom of speech" as an excuse to start problems. It has everything to do with showing a lack of respect. You and Ed could have stayed out of this thread, and let this thread continue for what it is meant. Start a new thread for all I care. But you didn't. And that, my friend, is pissing us off.
here we are in the trash and now you guys don't have spit to say.It was just fine to yap your mouths off before though. Yesterday i was so pissed i could not post with out doing exactly what i did not want.
I'm back, I did not intend to make any political statement and just because you see one doesn't mean it is there.Even so if you had any respect for the true and obvious meaning behind this thread you would not have said anything.You did it at every ones expense just because you know i dont want any communication with you.You can't even respect that. I have no inclination to change your mind on any subject also i'm not interested in hearing your point of veiw.If our paths cross as i'm sure they will you can just smile, wave, and we can act like civil enemies.That is a respectable position i can live with.
Bill,I thought your original post not in line with this thread but could see what you meant.I didn't disagree about the thousand soldiers that had died but it wasn't a memorial about them.I understand that after 9/11 your life became more difficult concerning your family and job oppertunitys but you are not alone in this and this also was not the intention of the thread.It wasn't about us.It wasn't what we wanted to complain about.It just wasn't a complaint thread period.I didn't really care much that you used the oppertunity because you did little harm and it wasn't a big deal.Your responses after were not tolerable though.To continue to muddy the feild after the fact is inexcusable given the nature of this thread.
Fierobear, Why? You know better and continued to egg Bill on.It is never just one kid being dragged out by the ear from church.I am glad it stopped after i asked you.Though it seemed to take a couple of posts to slow the momentum down.
As for myself i'm sorry i responded the way i did to I'm back.I should also have kept my mouth shut but couldn't.I'm as guilty as any And i apoligize to all.
Cliff i feel you are as guilty as me.You would have been better off not saying anything as it just caused more bickering.I'm sure you thought about that before you did repond to the situation and fell into the same trap.I don't disagree with what you said at all i just don't see how it did any good.
All in all I am very disapointed/angry and wish i hadn't even posted the stupid thread in the first place.I should have known better.
not to keep this going or anything... but I feel that 84Bill has a right to discuss his opinions, I may agree with him but that doesn't come into play here. Sure you may not agree with him, and yes, he did present them in a disagreeable way, but I feel that people shouldn't be put down for expressing their thoughts on the issues.
Forum = A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas
not to keep this going or anything... but I feel that 84Bill has a right to discuss his opinions, I may agree with him but that doesn't come into play here. Sure you may not agree with him, and yes, he did present them in a disagreeable way, but I feel that people shouldn't be put down for expressing their thoughts on the issues.
Forum = A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas
You're right. Bill has as much right as anyone else to voice his opinion. The problem is, he and Ed continue to abuse thier right to free speech to push thier own agendas and ideas on the rest of us. You haven't been on the forum for too long, so you'll have to take my word on this. This kind of behavior is nothing new and really growing old. They are welcome to post all the thoughts and opinions they want in relevant topics or make thier own topics. But they don't. They come into other threads and hijack them with thier strong worded opinions. Thats why the rest of us are upset with them; thier lack of ettiquete and respect for the purpose of peoples threads.
Originally posted by pokeyfiero: Bill,I thought your original post not in line with this thread but could see what you meant.I didn't disagree about the thousand soldiers that had died but it wasn't a memorial about them.I understand that after 9/11 your life became more difficult concerning your family and job oppertunitys but you are not alone in this and this also was not the intention of the thread.It wasn't about us.It wasn't what we wanted to complain about.It just wasn't a complaint thread period.I didn't really care much that you used the oppertunity because you did little harm and it wasn't a big deal.Your responses after were not tolerable though.To continue to muddy the feild after the fact is inexcusable given the nature of this thread.
Well that was my feelings about remembering 9/11. What it meant to me then is what it means to me now. The senseless murdering of innocent Americans is wrong.
The message that I made is not just a rememberence but my desire that WE put behind us not just the pain of that day but the hatred that came along with it. That hatred contnues to kill Americans DAILY and I find it neandertal in its conception and execution.
However, IF and I mean IF one were have any compassion for people in general ,then one would realize WE must share this god forsaken planet AND get along with others of different cultures. IF that were to happen then one MAY even be able to see a much BIGGER PICTURE of 9/11 than the one only us Americans see. It's called having an open mind NOT a narrow mind.
I mean for christ sakes! We are all humans, we all have red blood, 10 fingers, 10 toes and we all care for our own people of our culture. What the hell do you expect the Arabs to do? Lay down and give up without a fight?? Would you lay down and just give up if this country were invaided???
I want OBL's head on a platter too but I must temper that with the fact that it will not change anything.. Arabs will still Kill Americans, Americans will still kill Arabs, Jews will still kill Palistinians and Palistinians will still kill Jews, Hutu,will still kill the Tutsi and the Tutsi will still kill the hutu.. Whats the freaking point of it all? Just tell me one good reason to believe continued death and destruction of human lives will benefit me OR my children? Ohh...PLEASE lay upon me this great wisdom that I may be of the learnid peoples and not just a babbling idiot as most seem to think I am.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand.. I remember 9/11 and a crapload more, all of which I could live a much easier life without Since it is pounded into my head by a daily deluge of blood and guts splattred across my TV screen, I can't help but to be dragged into it and ponder the eternal question WHY... I ask that one alot and the reasons I see are nothing but lies, deceptions and a general pile of bullcrap from those in charge... or DARE I say responsible for it.
Pokey, I have to admit you are indeed a better man than me and I mean that with honesty. I confronted you in another thread regarding much of what I have said and you just said your peace and let it be. I find that very commendable and I times I wish I had that virtue, today being one of them. But I have an even bigger problem with the fact that I stand firmly in what I believe in and I won't back down when confronted. But I do admit when I am wrong.
I apologize TO YOU and only you for posting my agreement with Ed's post as it was "off topic" Again, That post is my honest feelings. As for the rest, wel.. that was me telling the moderator wannabe trolls to get off my ass.. and of course there was Cliff busting my ass again because he won't let me live down his suggestion that I "find a better forum" then changed my home page to http://gontoabetterforum.com in my profile because it pissed me off. Problem is, tit for tat with "god" is a hazardous operation. But hey, thats me and they way I am, I call it the way I see it.
Anyway.. enough with the explaination, I said my piece on page one, post one and that was plenty, I shoulda let Ed fend for himself but I kinda respect Ed too. I don't always agree with him and he can be a real mutha humper to argue with but I still respect the guy and I like what he says sometimes... This thread happened to be one of those times. Inapropriate to agree with Ed.. Never, Inapropriate to agree with Ed in an emotionaly charged thread.. Definatly!
My feelings on 9/11? Been there done that, got the pics from Shanksville to prove it so it's time for me to move on to the next level.
not to keep this going or anything... but I feel that 84Bill has a right to discuss his opinions, I may agree with him but that doesn't come into play here. Sure you may not agree with him, and yes, he did present them in a disagreeable way, but I feel that people shouldn't be put down for expressing their thoughts on the issues.
Forum = A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas
You're right. Bill has as much right as anyone else to voice his opinion. The problem is, he and Ed continue to abuse thier right to free speech to push thier own agendas and ideas on the rest of us. You haven't been on the forum for too long, so you'll have to take my word on this. This kind of behavior is nothing new and really growing old. They are welcome to post all the thoughts and opinions they want in relevant topics or make thier own topics. But they don't. They come into other threads and hijack them with thier strong worded opinions. Thats why the rest of us are upset with them; thier lack of ettiquete and respect for the purpose of peoples threads.
Oh boy, it's not just me alone anymore, it's "THEY".. You are a whiney Cliff following, groveling, cheerleader, moderator wannabe. God how disgustinly low will you stoop to be an ass kisser?
Since I must defend myself (as freaking usual) I want to state for the record that YOU too have an adjenda. However it's not considered "abuse" because YOU are part of the majority mob that I tend to cut across. So just because I am not a lemming who just runs in the same direction does not make me wrong, I'm just going about my daily life with a different view. The thing that really pisses me off is the fact that this country as well as this forum is no longer "free" to everyone regardless of weath, social status, political afiliation or religious beliefs. Because narrow minded pricks such as yourself must find fault in the "non-orthodox believer and cast him or her out of you cozzy little country or forum this country has become a cesspool of corruption that defies the very founding pricipals our founding fathers created.
I have a very open mind. When a discussion begins on a particular subject such as Arabs or Muslims, All I ever read about is a constant gush of angry, misguided, uneducated BULL CRAP. The reason I'm so controversial is because I play devils advocate in a thread where a misunderstood people (using Muslims as an example) are bashed and looked down upon as if they were a pile of dog crap stuck to your shoes. You ignorant inconsiderate bastards don't even allow for or think that a Muslims may be reading your crap let alone try and defend themselves from an onslought of an argy, arrogant mob of pissed off American candy asses who have the world by the balls! Most of you people REALLY need to get off this one sided bash fest, pull your angry heads out of your asses and take INTO CONSIDERATION the hatred you have for a simple people who not only look up toward us but at the same time are spit on and put down at every god damned chance you feel the need to VENT your frustrations about 9/11.
It's pathetic and unfortunatly this little microcosm called "open forum" is a perfect example of how power and mob mentality (aka Democracy) can run out of control.
Like WTF harm did I do today by agreeing with I'm Back when all I said was "In a way??? It's a fact brother!" Did it really destroy your day when you read it? Did it really piss you off when I "FORCED" my opinion on you and MAKE you read it?
Oh but it was JUST A OK when you Richard Craniums responded furthering your MOB mentality and acting as a rally cry to call for reinforcemnts because I just destroied your day.. Jeasus Christ how freaking pathetic can you be? Waaa Waaa 84Bill said this.. Waaa WAAA 84Bill said that... WAAA WAAA 84Bill has no clue... Waaa Waaa Cliff... 84Bill said something "I FEEL" is not realivent to the topic. Well FU beacuse I have feelings regarding a topic too but if I disagree OHH YOUR POOR WORLD IS RUINED So you simpletins cry and whine about me and my opinions but GOD FREAKING FORBID if I whine about any damn thing! I don't care what the topic is. Inevatibly in the end up arguing with YOU or fierobear particularly if I complain about how clueless and arrogant you dipshitz really are when it comes to looking on the other side of a coin.. OH no, thats not an option. It's ok for you to voice an opinion, it's ok for other to voice an opinion BUT DON'T ever voice an opposing opinion arround you two! Particularly me. Suddenly the gloves come off and it becomes a personal bash 84bill fest and naturally I am the ONLY one who instagted it? You two in particular are VERY very pathetic. Geat when it comes to screaching and spouting off on a topic that is realivent and important to you but a total disaster (along with some others) when it comes to LISTENING and accepting others who have a different view.
It's not limited to you two but it always seem to be the same hardheaded pricks I end up going head to head with.
Anyway.. I'm not forcing you or anyone else to read my posts, Im not forcing you to hit the "submit Reply" button (though I'm sure you blame me for you need to do so.. as if I were a drug you cant control) NOR am I FORCING my "adjenda" on anyone. Ideas on the other hand ar the realgm of the thinking class so I'd expect you not to accept them from me, ideas require an open mind and since you shut me out constantly, you never get it... As if that were a really big surprise.
So cry me a river about one person on the forum you just can't get out of your head...better yet I know Cliff will give you a shoulder to cry on, he is still pissed off at me for putting "gonetoabetterforum.com" in the homepage slot in my profile. The thing Cliff forgets is that he suggested that I go somewhere "better".
Oh, that doesn't get me pissed off at all. I (and others) get pissed off at the fact you and "I'm Back" jump in threads and use your precious "freedom of speech" as an excuse to start problems. It has everything to do with showing a lack of respect. You and Ed could have stayed out of this thread, and let this thread continue for what it is meant. Start a new thread for all I care. But you didn't. And that, my friend, is pissing us off.
I see, bringing the cheerleader down on me again?? Funny how every time you post something derogatory about a forum member their negatives rise in proportion to it.
Anyways From what I gather, forum rules say "no associated threads", I may break the rules sometimes but I try like hell to adhear to them. You already reamed my ass for starting a thread for that bimbo BBT's to bash me in. BUT it was just jim god damn dandy fine for BBT's to follow me around in NO LESS than 10 threads in one day with that "Poor Bill" crap. Nah, you had Nooooo problem with that did ya Cliff?
I see, so you are assuming that I am "starting problems" Ok fine Cliff, give me the threads and lets see how I started the trouble, What hainus crime did I commit to start this so called trouble? Complain about something, have someone bash me personally and then I started "the trouble" by defending myself? Maybe was it before that when I started complaining or arguing ABOUT A TOPIC someone else started OR maybe even on that I started.
The problem is generally that I disagree, with people, they get frustrated because they cant get to me they cry to you because they are pissed about it. It's fine for them to use the freedom of speech complain about me or something I said in a topic but it's not ok for me to use the freedom of speech to complain about issues I feel are improtant to me?
Maybe I'll just be mindless like everyone else and let my country tear the world apart and destroy countless lives so you and your cheerleaders can have the freedom of speech to complain about me.
Kind of being unfair and one sided about this whole freedom thing, arent you?
Whatever, I'm tired of it anyway. I like this forum but I don't like arguing with you about stupid whiney babies who cant seem to take what they dish out NOR do I accept all the responsibilty for the trouble caused by it.. It's a SHARED responsibility and I'll accept my half but I refuse to be 100% accountable particularly when it takes two people to argue.
And I need to add one other thing. Since you called me "paranoid" I get to call you on the carpet for your actions as moderator.
I've often felt that a moderator was supposed to be an impartial judge, someone who is supposed to be a neutral party in order to resolve issues.
It has been my observation that you are not being an impartial judge of character but instead are inciting the masses who obviously got your attention first, are your "fiends" or are general ass kissers who worship the groud you walk on.
I also resent you generalizing me with I'm Back. I am not I'm Back, we are sepearte people and we have sepearte opinions on a number of things We do however agree on some fundimental issues regarding the state of affairs in this country.
I do however respect you for your efforts in providing us with a forum but it stops there when you attack me in open forum. You know damn well it will cause the sharks to climb out of the woodwork, It gives them cart blanch rule to make jabs because they know as well as you do that I will be forced to take it without the ability to defend myself because if I were to defend myself it means that "I started the trouble". So be it if thats what you believe. Unfortunatly that is not the case, I will defend myself and I will reply to all who post anything negative about me in defense of myself. This will eventually and unfortunatly cost me my membership on the forum. I'm positive there will be rejoicing by a few members at the loss but then there will be others who won't.
I told you before Cliff, there is more to life than just a car.. for that matter a hell of alot more than T/OT. But I will say this, I sure as hell enjoyed the time I spent on here and a large majority of the people as well. It's a shame for them.
And no, I gave you a neutral as I'm sure you are aware. You don't deserve a negative ever! You put yourself out for us and for that anyone giving you a negative may as well spit on your face. I may be ... dear god I lost count of all the adjictives over the last few months.. but I aint one to discount your time, money and efforts.
I'm still pissed that you are calling me out in open forum though. I won't try to hide nor will I not hide my thanks.
Thank You
And NO I aint kissing your ass either... well..maybe a grudge quickie on the cheek.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 09-13-2004).]
I see, bringing the cheerleader down on me again?? Funny how every time you post something derogatory about a forum member their negatives rise in proportion to it.
I think it's funny that whenever you get negatives, you blame others and not yourself. You got 5 extra ratings since you jumped into this thread (and only like 3 extra after I posted my first message). I can't tell you if they were all negatives (I could check, but I really don't care enough). Anywho, that's a small cheerleader squad if you ask me.
But, according to you, all these negatives must have been given by "Cliff cheerleaders", mindless drones who can't think for themselves, and who will do whatever I want them to do at the snap of my finger (we even have a secret handshake), right? And there's no way people could have rated you simply because of your own actions, right? Well, if that's what you want to believe, go ahead. I know better. You know better. The people who rated you know better.
You had over 100 negatives before I posted in this thread. Are those from my cheerleaders as well? Or are those 100 people the "whiners" you are talking about? When exactly are you a cheerleader and when are you a whiner? Apparantly, when someone rates you negative, they fall into one of these categories.
Get over yourself Bill. And get over me too. I don't have any cheerleaders. People don't follow my lead. There is no bandwagon. There is no secret handshake. People don't like/hate me because I have "Administrator powers". People don't "fear" me, people don't "worship" me. I receive positive ratings because people find my contribution here useful. I receive negatives from people who think I'm a complete asswipe. You receive positives because people think your contribution here is useful. You receive negatives from people who think you're a complete asswipe. And that's it. There are no other reasons.
Out of respect for Cliff, I don't like to post in the trashcan, but I feel this needs to be said:
Bill, people are upset with you not because they don't believe in your freedom of speech, but because the thread was intened to be a memorial to the victims of 9/11. With freedom of speech comes responsibility. Someone posted the definition for "forum". Here is a word and definition you need to learn:
me·mo·ri·al ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-môr-l, -mr-) n. Something, such as a monument or holiday, intended to celebrate or honor the memory of a person or an event.
You arrived at a memorial with a bullhorn and protest sign. It's not that you aren't free to do it, it's a question of what is appropriate. At the top of every forum section, there is a button called "new topic." Why not just click that, maybe start a new thread with your own thoughts on 9/11? Then it would be your topic with your own rules? Then you will have the right to get upset if people are acting inappropriately in your thread.
As for being a "cheerleader" for Cliff, I support Cliff because he has my respect. Respect is earned, not given or demanded. Cliff has earned my respect by being extremely patient, even-handed and fair, despite all the crap he has to put up with on this forum. He also runs this forum by himself, taking a lot of his own free time, and spending his own money to do it. He doesn't have to, but he does. If he were an a**h***, he would not have my respect, but he's far from it.
Several other people, including Cliff, have told you that you were off base, but you still continue to push. Is there never a time when you say to yourself "gee, maybe I was wrong or that wasn't appropriate"? That's what this is about. Learn to exercise your freedom by tempering it with responsibility, and you'll earn the respect that you demand.
[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 09-13-2004).]
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: I think it's funny that whenever you get negatives, you blame others and not yourself. You got 5 extra ratings since you jumped into this thread (and only like 3 extra after I posted my first message). I can't tell you if they were all negatives (I could check, but I really don't care enough). Anywho, that's a small cheerleader squad if you ask me.
I won't deny that both you and I are engaged in an argument and that I am fighting an uphill battle with a HIGHLY respected MEMBER of the forum. I also realize that it will cause me some grief in the form of negative rating for having the audacity to do so. You also know that there is no way on gods green earth that someone will rate you negativly or that you will EVER see that Accept-O-Meter drop into the red. Me on the otherhand, am on my own.. So yes, I do realize the futility in this endevor and accept the fact that I get what I deserve. However, are you going to admit the fact they you have followers who will do anything to be recognized as your friend by defending you weather you are right or wrong? Who will LEAP at the chance to stand up and agree with you regardless of the circumstances AND make jabs at your targeted individual because they know they can HIDE behind you and take pot shots?
I've said it before that I don't care about ratings.. Though I may be complaining about it at present in order to bring attention to the "cheerleader" simple minded mentality you seem to ignore out into the open.
If you like I can go grab a perfect example that occured just yesterday... Better yet I'll do it anyway.
quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:
It's even dumber if you can't be bothered getting your pics under 100K. It's even dumber if you think having an animation of someone's boobs in your sig is cool. It's even dumber if you think offering people a choice wether or not they want to load an image over 100K is dumb.
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quote Originally posted by Cheerleader: There you go. The man has spoken
The above was quoted by a cheerleader who obviously felt the need to inform others as if they did not already READ for themselves what you said in regard to an issue with another member.
The purpose and motivation of this cheerleaders post? Does this cheerleader think we don't know that the MIGHTY Cliff has spoken? Does this cheerleader believe that we can't think for ourselves? Does this cheerleader THINK that because the mighty Cliff, master and commander of this forum, everyone MUST agree?
I understand that this is called Pennocks Fiero Forum but I also read somewhere "FOR THE FIERO COMMUNITY, BY THE FIERO COMMUNITY"
So which is it? I'm part of the community and that means I have equal say... or is it I have equality so long as it falls in line with your beliefs as to the level of equality.
Because I feel this cheerleader only said that just to get the ire of the member YOU were addressing. Correction, I just don't feel that way, I'm convinced that was the intention. I COULD have replied to it BUT I DIDN'T WANT TO START ANY TROUBLE but since I'm already in hot water. I might as well because I feel this comment was WRONG even if you don't think it was!
quote
quote Originally posted by Cheerleader: There you go. The man has spoken
Yeah, real cute reply. Do you think we are all stupid or something because that was the most worthless non contributory post I have read in this thread.
BTW - for you for being a troll.
quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: But, according to you, all these negatives must have been given by "Cliff cheerleaders", mindless drones who can't think for themselves, and who will do whatever I want them to do at the snap of my finger (we even have a secret handshake), right? And there's no way people could have rated you simply because of your own actions, right? Well, if that's what you want to believe, go ahead. I know better. You know better. The people who rated you know better.
I've seen you attack other members using you admin moniker and all of the sudden thier ratings drop into the basement. I f you deny that fact then you are indeed dilusional and ignorant to the power you posess at inciting others to rally around you personal cause. Do you have ANY idea how much credibility you posses? True, the individual may have pissed off a few members but when they piss you off the slam fest REALLY kicks into high gear.
I've gotten into argumentive debates with HUNDREDS of people on this forum regarding different issues and the only time I ever got this many ratings in the span of a few days was the last time you scalded me with your moniker.
So don't try to play down the immense political power you wield on this forum, I don't buy a damn word of it. If you moniker were FieroOfool and I disagreed with you in open forum I MAY get one negative. BUT if I were to disagree with Cliff Pennock in open forum (just as I am doing) WELL, I get atleast 5 in one day.
Dont deny the fact, I've seen it happen on more than one occasion and not just to me.
quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: You had over 100 negatives before I posted in this thread. Are those from my cheerleaders as well? Or are those 100 people the "whiners" you are talking about? When exactly are you a cheerleader and when are you a whiner? Apparantly, when someone rates you negative, they fall into one of these categories.
Anyone who rates another person negativly because they don't see eye to eye IN an open ended discussion is a whiner. For the longest time I rated VERY few people negativley and even before I did that I made every attempt at letting it be know that I would do so. I'm not one to cower behind a vail of silence and pass judgement WITHOUT giving that person a chance to change their attitude. EVEN THEN at times I rate them positive for their steadfast tenacity and conviction. However that has changed recently because quite frankly I HATE TROLLS with a passion. I hate people who turn political or for that matter ANY thread into a personal creadibility issue. TIME AND TIME again I have had to defend myself and I don't give a crap if I'm talking about coke or pepsi, Bush or Kerry or any other topic, there will inevatable be one of 3 people who will make CONSTANT bullcrap posts regarding me or my credibility.
I gave yo a perfect example, BBT's and her constant NEVER ENDING "Poor Bill" Ever stop to think tha maybe she is trolling for flames?? If you think "no" then you are a fully qualified idiot because IT PISSES ME OFF!
You faile to even make a comment on that ISSUE I have but then again "84Bill is the trouble maker" as far as you are concerned.. Very well, allow BBT's to badger me and I WILL surely get pissed off and say something in reply that others will rate me negativly for. Never mind that I have been badgered by this poor excuse for a member FOR MONTHS! Blind, deff and just plain CLUELESS.
You probably never knew BBT's hase been pissing me off because I'm not going to bother you with something that I can't handle MYSELF. But hey if you want to be a moderator and kick me in the ass for being a "trouble maker" go ahead and be my guest. But I won't accept resposibility for the actions of others that lead up to this. BBT's can kiss my hairy butt cheeks.
quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Get over yourself Bill. And get over me too. I don't have any cheerleaders. People don't follow my lead. There is no bandwagon. There is no secret handshake. People don't like/hate me because I have "Administrator powers". People don't "fear" me, people don't "worship" me. I receive positive ratings because people find my contribution here useful. I receive negatives from people who think I'm a complete asswipe. You receive positives because people think your contribution here is useful. You receive negatives from people who think you're a complete asswipe. And that's it. There are no other reasons.
Oh is that a fact?? No Cliff, I have a better idea. How about you get off this rampage you have been on lately because YOU are causing alot of agrivation for not just me but several other singled out members on YOUR forum.
You are a highly respected member of this forum who weilds GREAT power and influence over other members and for you to deny that fact is just unrealistic.
I'm getting negatives AT THIS VERY moment because I'm arguing with Cliff Pennock and not with FieroOfool.
I like this forum and I respect EVERYONE but that does not mean I'll be a whipping post or poster child for anyones amusement unless I allow it.
I really don't care about the ratings system because it's a sham, the "red bar brigade" exists and it roams the forum unchecked, If you don't realize the cliqueish nature of certian groups of people on the forum.. well, you need to get out more often. You should know better, you run the largest clique on the internet.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 09-13-2004).]
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Like the section description said, this is where I will move all threads to that turned ugly. That doesn't mean however that "anything goes" here. The same rules apply in this section as in any other. So your actions here can get you banned! There are two reasons I created the Trash Can for. The first and most important reason is because I want to keep the other sections clean. The second reason is because it gives me a very good indication on a person's "contribution" to the forum.
Let me put it another way. Thanks to some wonderful moderator tools I have, I can see the number of posts a user has made in all seperate sections. If I notice someone has a substantial amount of posts here, then that's a very good indication for me that this person isn't contributing much positive to the forum. Makes my job "cleaning the house" much easier.
This obviously does not apply to Cliff Pennock, so why don't you play in the trashcan using a far more humble and relistic moniker like FieroOfool??
You may actually see how this forum really works and you may even get a few negatives. Maybe even from me. But I will NEVER give Cliff Pennock a negative for very obvious and previously stated reasons... So come on down and play with the real people and not those candy ass PC whiney babies who just want to be a friend to Cliff Pennock.
Do you even have an opinion on the Iraq war?? I wouldn't know but I would like to get to know where you stand... Then again I already have my suspicians.
Out of respect for Cliff, I don't like to post in the trashcan, but I feel this needs to be said:
OH PLUUUUUHHHHLEASSSSS!!!!!!
You would follow me to the ends of the earth to badger the hell out of me... Case an point this very thread so don't play that crap with me... You have serious denial issues.
You, Pokey and Fastback were instrumental in getting one if not BOTH of the threads in this trashcan that I started, even then you played in the trash can until I finally gave up.
There are several others that youposted in while they were already in the trash, I don't buy that BS for a second.. Do both you and fastcrack think I'm that much of a fool?? God help ya, that's all I've got to say because your are capital P pathetic if you expect me to believe you!
I play in the trash from time to time but unlike you, I have balls enough to admit it.
As for the rest of you post.. STFU and go away. I dont give a rats ass for your opinions of me anymore. So do me and the rest of the forum a favor and don't reply to ANY of my posts from here on out and I'll do the same.
Originally posted by 84Bill: You would follow me to the ends of the earth to badger the hell out of me... Case an point this very thread so don't play that crap with me... You have serious denial issues.
When you are going from thread to thread, being an a**h***, you betcha. I'm sick of your stupid crap, and I'll call you on it *every time*.
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You, Pokey and Fastback were instrumental in getting one if not BOTH of the threads in this trashcan that I started, even then you played in the trash can until I finally gave up.
No, numbnuts, YOU got this thread s**tcanned. Cliff addressed YOU, not me, not pokey, not fastback. Once again, Bill blames everyone but himself.
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There are several others that youposted in while they were already in the trash, I don't buy that BS for a second.. Do both you and fastcrack think I'm that much of a fool?? God help ya, that's all I've got to say because your are capital P pathetic if you expect me to believe you!
My posts in the trashcan are a small percentage of my total posts on the forum. Period. I don't give a s**t what you believe. You live in your own little twisted world anyway.
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As for the rest of you post.. STFU and go away. I dont give a rats ass for your opinions of me anymore. So do me and the rest of the forum a favor and don't reply to ANY of my posts from here on out and I'll do the same. OK?
I tell you what, let's take a vote. Very simple, cast your vote for either:
fierobear leaves 84Bill leaves
I'll do whatever the majority says, screw the ratings meter.
[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 09-13-2004).]
I'll do whatever the majority says, screw the ratings meter.
Umm ok.. you do that, I'm going to do what right regardless of the mob mentality. I have a brain, I know what is right and what is wrong and I don't give two shakes of a rats ass about the majority. I live, do and say what I feel is right regardless of how others feel. According to the now trampled rules this country was founded on I have every right to do so. I live my life, others don't live it for me nor will I ever allow them to do so. As I stated, I am an independant thinker. If you don't like it fine, cry like a kiss ass ***** (female dog) for all I care, it won't change a thing so you will just have to STFU and get over it..
Whiney ***** ... Arent there more important issues in your life you must deal with others than me? Bigger fish to fry like the homeless people living in the streets of LA? Being taxed into oblivion? Or is your life so patheticly boring that you feel the need to complain about how I "ruined your precious thread" by voicing my opinion? OHHH the travasty of it all, 84Bill disagrees.. Oh you poor poor pathetic whiney excuse for a human being, my heart just bleeds at the sight of your arrogant selfish attitude and mindless, go with the flow, politically correct, " I got my ass reamed and now you must have your reamed" mob mentality.
YOU tipify the very reasont this county is so screwed up! You have no brain! You are a midless, hapless lemming! I just cant get over the level of ignorance you display.. I REALLY don't understand how you an pokeyfiero get along... You guys are total opposites!
Whatever, troll on. There is no sense in beating a brain dead Alzheimer's patient because it really makes me look bad.
Originally posted by 84Bill: Umm ok.. you do that, I'm going to do what right regardless of the mob mentality.
OK, so despite the fact that the majority tells you that you're wrong, you'll keep up the b***s**t and think you're some kind of hero for it.
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I have a brain, I know what is right and what is wrong and I don't give two shakes of a rats ass about the majority. I live, do and say what I feel is right regardless of how others feel. According to the now trampled rules this country was founded on I have every right to do so. I live my life, others don't live it for me nor will I ever allow them to do so.
Except that, when the majority of a community asks you to stop and tells you that you're wrong, you just go right on doing what you're doing because it's your "right" to do it. Never mind social grace, responsibility, respect, and consideration. I guess the part about "with freedom comes responsibility" goes right over your huge intellect. Uh, huh, yeah, right. Nope, not Bill. He's above all that.
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As I stated, I am an independant thinker. If you don't like it fine, cry like a kiss ass ***** (female dog) for all I care, it won't change a thing so you will just have to STFU and get over it..
That will be the day when you say "STFU" and I do, just because YOU don't like it. What happened to all that "freedom of speech" stuff you hold so dear? Oops, that's just for 84Bill, Mr. Freedom of speech.
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Whiney ***** ... Arent there more important issues in your life you must deal with others than me? Bigger fish to fry like the homeless people living in the streets of LA? Being taxed into oblivion? Or is your life so patheticly boring that you feel the need to complain about how I "ruined your precious thread" by voicing my opinion? OHHH the travasty of it all, 84Bill disagrees.. Oh you poor poor pathetic whiney excuse for a human being, my heart just bleeds at the sight of your arrogant selfish attitude and mindless, go with the flow, politically correct, " I got my ass reamed and now you must have your reamed" mob mentality.
How incredibly arrogant of you to assume that I do nothing other than make negative posts about you. You obviously have no idea what I do in the Fiero community, but I don't brag about it, I just f***ing DO it.
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YOU tipify the very reasont this county is so screwed up! You have no brain! You are a midless, hapless lemming! I just cant get over the level of ignorance you display.. I REALLY don't understand how you an pokeyfiero get along... You guys are total opposites!
Whatever, troll on. There is no sense in beating a brain dead Alzheimer's patient because it really makes me look bad.
Yeah, blah blah blah, listen to the loser babble.
pokey and I (not to mention fastback) get along because, despite our philisophical differences, we respect eachother and our differences of opinion. That's what intelligent, respectful and polite people do. Not like Bill, who blows a head gasket when someone disagrees with him. That's the difference, Bill. I will stop dogging you when you stop peeing in our pool.
[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 09-13-2004).]
Originally posted by fierobear: OK, so despite the fact that the majority tells you that you're wrong, you'll keep up the b***s**t and think you're some kind of hero for it.
No, fierobutthead, "I know" and that is part of the what makes the difference between me and you. The other part (I bolded above) you have correct.
Holy crap, Bill. That's a lot of words. Maybe I'll read (and respond to) it when I actually start giving a rat's ass.
But even without reading, I bet it says something like: "Blah, blah, blah... I'm a victim... Blah, blah, blah... You're a jerk... Blah, blah, blah... They are cheerleaders... Blah, blah, blah... Your fault I get banned... Blah, blah, blah... Freedom of speech... Blah, blah, blah... Abuse of administrative powers... Blah, blah, blah...".
Whatever, Bill. If I am responsible for you getting banned eventually, so be it. I've reached the point I really couldn't care less.
84Bill, for the past few months I've watched so many threads turn to crap once you start posting in them. I've also watched as you continually blame others for the **** you've stirred up. And I've avoided repsonding to your posts, because frankly most weren't worth the time it took to read them. But the more of your drivel that I read, the more you irritate me. For someone who claims to be such an independent thinker and champion of free speech, you have a complete and utter lack of common sense. You're great at crowing about your freedom, but you have no grasp of the responsibility that is a necessary component of every freedom.
Let's see if I can summarize your normal contribution to a thread. It starts with a highly inapproproiate or inflammatory post from you, then when people disagree with you, you wrap yourself up in your freedom of speech cloak, then you begin the name-calling, all the while proclaiming your higher intellect. Then when you've gotten enough people stirred up, or the thread is in the trash can, you start whining about the mob mentality of the forum, and the "red bar brigade". It must be nice to be Bill, never at fault for anything that happens in his life . Do you ever think that maybe you get negatives because of YOU? Oh wait, that would mean you're to blame, and that can't happen. Must be a conspiracy to trample your freedoms, right Bill?
Call yourself what you will, champion, intellect, free thinker, whatever delusion you want to use. But underneath your posturing, underneath the layers of BS, you're just a troll.
[This message has been edited by GT86 (edited 09-13-2004).]
84Bill, for the past few months I've watched so many threads turn to crap once you start posting in them. I've also watched as you continually blame others for the **** you've stirred up. And I've avoided repsonding to your posts, because frankly most weren't worth the time it took to read them. But the more of your drivel that I read, the more you irritate me. For someone who claims to be such an independent thinker and champion of free speech, you have a complete and utter lack of common sense. You're great at crowing about your freedom, but you have no grasp of the responsibility that is a necessary component of every freedom.
??? right, all I have to say you is quit trying to fool everyone because you sure as hell arn't fooling me.
Liar Liar pants on far! Lets see if you can grasp this...
"I don't care what you think about me."
Do you get it now??? Ypu can rally round the family with a pocket full of shells right now because others (including Cliff) are cought up in the ameba menatality of "it's ok to bash Bill"
Again.. it's not your fault you are a cheerleader and have finnaly come out of the closet in a short skirt and panties. Raahh Rahhh Goooooo Cliff!!!
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[B]Originally posted by GT86:[/B Let's see if I can summarize your normal contribution to a thread. It starts with a highly inapproproiate or inflammatory post from you, then when people disagree with you, you wrap yourself up in your freedom of speech cloak, then you begin the name-calling, all the while proclaiming your higher intellect. Then when you've gotten enough people stirred up, or the thread is in the trash can, you start whining about the mob mentality of the forum, and the "red bar brigade". It must be nice to be Bill, never at fault for anything that happens in his life . Do you ever think that maybe you get negatives because of YOU? Oh wait, that would mean you're to blame, and that can't happen. Must be a conspiracy to trample your freedoms, right Bill?
Call yourself what you will, champion, intellect, free thinker, whatever delusion you want to use. But underneath your posturing, underneath the layers of BS, you're just a troll.
And if I were to call you a troll for posting this garbage I suppose you would feel it was perfectly justifyable.... You want to call me dilusional?
very well, you started this little "name calling fest" you arrogant, doublestandard having dipshit.
Did I ruin you day yet?
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 09-13-2004).]
One hell of a long ass rant. I'm not even sure some of it was addressing me (Fastback 86) personally.
1) You're making up stuff and you know it. I have never groveled, cheerlead, pretended to the role of moderator, nor have I ever kissed Cliffs backside. To the best of my recollection, the only time I've ever spoken directly to Cliff was to ask if the Search Function understands Boolian Logic.
2) YOU and ONLY YOU are the reason you have to defend yourself so much. What's my agenda Bill? My little mission to get you to admit you're wrong? I already accomplished that and moved on. That thread was months ago.
3) You are not being alienated and crucified because you think differently. You are being scolded because you apparently have no social skills and speak to people in a demeanor that really pisses them off.
4) Where are the Muslim bashing threads? I haven't seen any. I've seen a few terrorist bashing threads, but everyone keeps it in context. Not all Muslims are terrorists, everyone knows that.
5) When has anyone ever talked about how much they HATE Muslims? Oh wait, I know: NEVER. Where are you seeing this seething hatred towards them? MUSLIM DOES NOT EQUAL TERRORIST. No one is hating on the Muslims, we're hating on vile terrorist pukes. I don't care if its Taliban pricks blowing up our troops or Irish freedom fighters blowing up buses. They all can rot in hell.
6) What is this mob mentality? The one telling you to STFU? Ok mister "open mind, I always look at the other side of the coin," try this on for size: MAYBE THEY"RE RIGHT. You ever look at the other side of that coin, or are you too busy crying martyrdom?
7) No one cares that you agreed with Ed. People took exception when you hijacked this thread a little, and they got down right pissed when you sent it into a flame fest.
8) Which part of "9/11 Memorial" was unclear to you? You wanna talk about something else, start your own thread. Thats all anyone has been trying to tell you, but you're too busy feeling sorry for yourself for getting in hot water again.
TODAYS WORD IS: TACT
Tact (takt), n. 1. A keen sense of what to say or do to avoid giving offense; skill in dealing with difficult or delicate situations. 2. A keen sense of what is appropriate, tasteful, or aesthetically pleasing; taste; discrimination.
-Taken from Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language 1996 Ed.
Again, nothing is your fault . Call me a troll, a cheerleader, whatever makes you feel better. Whatever it takes to maintain your little fantasy world. Fact is, my opinion of you isn't based on what Cliff or anyone else thinks. You won't believe that, because it doesn't fit your delusion, but whatever. Understand though, there's no conspiracy to bash Bill. You're gettin' bashed because you're an ******* , plain and simple. Blame Cliff, blame the "mob", but whatever you do, don't blame yourself, 'cause you're the only sane person here, right?
And no, you didn't ruin my day in the slightest. In fact, your response was about what I predicted--same old 84Bill BS.
Lots of logical, rational, well thought out stuff.
Just wanted to add that I'll give you 2M4 Dale. He does seem to be pretty anti-Muslim. There you go, 1 out of 9936 world wide members. You must be right about us anti-Muslim biggots.
Holy crap, Bill. That's a lot of words. Maybe I'll read (and respond to) it when I actually start giving a rat's ass.
But even without reading, I bet it says something like: "Blah, blah, blah... I'm a victim... Blah, blah, blah... You're a jerk... Blah, blah, blah... They are cheerleaders... Blah, blah, blah... Your fault I get banned... Blah, blah, blah... Freedom of speech... Blah, blah, blah... Abuse of administrative powers... Blah, blah, blah...".
I get the part where you seem to be indicating that you are not going to read my posted reply to you rhetoric... Thats cool! I may have a chance afterall.
And wtf does this Blahh.. Blahh Blahh mean??
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Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Whatever, Bill. If I am responsible for you getting banned eventually, so be it. I've reached the point I really couldn't care less.
I wouldnt have to force you to SHARE the responsibility for allowing the trolls to have their way with me. .. But hey you don't have to accept anything, you are the forum god almighty, must be nice..
Sorry Cliff but no kisses from me today..
I have great news! Dr Spock says "blaa blaa blaa" is baby talk for "I want my binkey"
And least I not forget
Sig Test ---------------------- Fragment of "Old Glory"
Employing slander and misinformation they vilify: Creating monsters from mice and mountains from mole hills. These hideous monsters they create are just people trying to get though the day that in general are decent folk; the mountains are inanimate objects no more looming than a paper weight and just as easily moved aside or altogether ignored: the danger persists.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 05-29-2007).]
So, Bill, why is it that anyone who disagrees with you is a troll, a crybaby, or a cheerleader? Provoked or not, you're the one slinging insults and going off on anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with you. It's not just about your right to express yourself. We all have that right, but you don't seem to be able to have a discussion with someone unless everyone thinks you're right. If they don't, you blow a gasket and rant and rave.
You weren't always like this. I remember some great discussions we've had in the past. I don't want to call them arguments because they weren't angry or vengeful, just 2 people sharing points of view - sometimes similar and sometimes different.
That seems to have changed as of late. Now either every single person on the forum that you think is a cheerleader has changed, or you have. Use your logical mind and ask yourself which is more likely.
I know you're fed up with a lot. You have every right to be. But is that reason enough to toss civility out the window? Even if your rage is righteous in it's purpose, wouldn't it be better used directed at the source of your rage? Cliff isn't the cause of it. fierobear isn't, either. I'd wager no one on this forum is at the root of why you're so upset and angry these days. So why lash out on the people here?
I don't know. I'm just trying to make sense of it and maybe there isn't any. From my point of view, you've changed from a rational free thinker whose strong in his convictions to a hotheaded reactionary eager to fight for the cause - any cause. It's almost like you have a martyr complex. It doesn't look like you usually start the flames, but as soon as anyone lights a match, you're there to throw gasoline on it.
If I've offended you with this post, I'm sorry. But I hope you'll think about it when cooler heads prevail. I'm not trying to attack you. I'm only trying to offer some perspective.
I Have one glorious thing to say.... THANK GOD FOR CANADA..... were our pride doesn't divide the country in half, contrary to what you seem to think your american pride does which is bring you all together... The pledge to the flag or whatever is borderline cultism... like wtf. All you do is play with guns... as per the other post in OT and start wars then wonder why the world hates you. Like when you visit other countries do you walk around with american flag sowen to your bags or a canadian one ... i hear you get dirty looks for wearing the american one. I mean when it came time to thank the nations that helped you out after 9/11... what did canada get... not even an honourable mention... your all so stuck up with your own damn pride and your own damn 'greatness' if you can call it that.... that your blind to even your closest neighbour... its a good thing we didn't go to war all out because it would have been a damned shame to see Canadian blood spilled for Americans...
PS im sorry if anyone thinks less of me but i held back as long as i could... ive been holding back that entire shtick for months and this thread made the flood gates burst...
I Have one glorious thing to say.... THANK GOD FOR CANADA..... were our pride doesn't divide the country in half, contrary to what you seem to think your american pride does which is bring you all together... The pledge to the flag or whatever is borderline cultism... like wtf. All you do is play with guns... as per the other post in OT and start wars then wonder why the world hates you. Like when you visit other countries do you walk around with american flag sowen to your bags or a canadian one ... i hear you get dirty looks for wearing the american one. I mean when it came time to thank the nations that helped you out after 9/11... what did canada get... not even an honourable mention... your all so stuck up with your own damn pride and your own damn 'greatness' if you can call it that.... that your blind to even your closest neighbour... its a good thing we didn't go to war all out because it would have been a damned shame to see Canadian blood spilled for Americans...
PS im sorry if anyone thinks less of me but i held back as long as i could... ive been holding back that entire shtick for months and this thread made the flood gates burst...
Even for the Trash Can, that's a pretty worthless post. Thanks for your input
[This message has been edited by GT86 (edited 09-13-2004).]
I Have one glorious thing to say.... THANK GOD FOR CANADA..... were our pride doesn't divide the country in half, contrary to what you seem to think your american pride does which is bring you all together... The pledge to the flag or whatever is borderline cultism... like wtf. All you do is play with guns... as per the other post in OT and start wars then wonder why the world hates you. Like when you visit other countries do you walk around with american flag sowen to your bags or a canadian one ... i hear you get dirty looks for wearing the american one. I mean when it came time to thank the nations that helped you out after 9/11... what did canada get... not even an honourable mention... your all so stuck up with your own damn pride and your own damn 'greatness' if you can call it that.... that your blind to even your closest neighbour... its a good thing we didn't go to war all out because it would have been a damned shame to see Canadian blood spilled for Americans...
PS im sorry if anyone thinks less of me but i held back as long as i could... ive been holding back that entire shtick for months and this thread made the flood gates burst...
hear that?. . . . . . . .
it's the sound of people giving a $hit
Please stay in Canada, we don't need a $hit for brains attitude like that here
well ya know bear i try my best... i really do and im glad you were able to pick em out... i mean there it is again, Just look at ditch's post... your ignoring us Canadians... again, why because you think your better then everyone else... facts remain... what i said in my previous post................................................. is true...
[This message has been edited by Saber49 (edited 09-13-2004).]
well ya know bear i try my best... i really do and im glad you were able to pick em out... i mean there it is again, Just look at ditch's post... your ignoring us Canadians... again, why because you think your better then everyone else... facts remain... what i said in my previous post................................................. is true...
Well, I like Canada, and I like Canadians. I'm sorry you feel that way about us. I'm still glad we are neighbors, I can't think of any country that would be better neighbors.
I Have one glorious thing to say.... THANK GOD FOR CANADA..... were our pride doesn't divide the country in half, contrary to what you seem to think your american pride does which is bring you all together... The pledge to the flag or whatever is borderline cultism... like wtf. All you do is play with guns... as per the other post in OT and start wars then wonder why the world hates you. Like when you visit other countries do you walk around with american flag sowen to your bags or a canadian one ... i hear you get dirty looks for wearing the american one. I mean when it came time to thank the nations that helped you out after 9/11... what did canada get... not even an honourable mention... your all so stuck up with your own damn pride and your own damn 'greatness' if you can call it that.... that your blind to even your closest neighbour... its a good thing we didn't go to war all out because it would have been a damned shame to see Canadian blood spilled for Americans...
PS im sorry if anyone thinks less of me but i held back as long as i could... ive been holding back that entire shtick for months and this thread made the flood gates burst...
The voice of Canada's east once again rears its ugly head. No wonder us folks out west want to seperate. Don't think for a minute the above rant speaks on behalf of all Canadians. Newsflash for you - It's not our "Pride" that is ultimately going to divide our country - it's liberal arrogance such as you just displayed.
