quote From the US Constitution We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Here is another communist / nazi rule that the "party" has decided would best "help" society.

Though I agree with the "spirit" of this law I feel the law itself is nothing more than a form of forced labor. AS I SAID the cause is ok but there is an undelying problem.

I find the "problem" a bit troubeling personally

The Personal "Responsibility" and Work Oppertunity Act. (Public Law 104-193)
It states that any able bodied person between the ages of 18 and 50 without dependants must be "employed" at least 20 hr a week or participating in a "work" activity to recieve foodstamps (public welfare) benefits.

What this is indicating it that I must be employed and working the minimum hours OR "participating in a " work activity" to recieve public welfare.

Somehow it is worded in such a way that I can't quite grasp how they did it. It basically means I must avail myself to "work" community service. I really don't have a problem with volunterring my time and energy to a good cause BUT I do have a problem with not being "compensated" for it.

Where I came from mandatory community service was often "used" as a punnishment for offenders of minor crimes agains the community. It was designed to serve as a means of instilling civic duty into those that casued damage to it.

Now I will go and put my time into this because I feel it is a good cause BUT the luster and gratification has been stolen from me and that quite frankly it angers me; I will not benefit personally from performing such an activity.

My question is who does?
I "volunteered" to "work" for habitat for humanity.
It seems to be a wonderfull way to give something special to those in need and I am never above helping another person. All I get is satisfaction but that is only if I volunteer and in my case I did not choose too.

So how much does it cost to build the house that the government will buy at cost and give to a needy person?
How much to carpenters, sheet rockers, electricians or plumbers get per hour to perform 20 hrs a month for their services?
If it is all vollunteer work who really gets the 165,000 dollars total that would normally go to a builder and the contractors for this house?

Lastly, where does that money go? I sure as hell didn't get any of it and neither did any of the other "volunteers".

Is that dachshund I smell cooking or am I not even in the ball park?

Trolls spare us your BS

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: So how much does it cost to build the house that the government will buy at cost and give to a needy person? How much to carpenters, sheet rockers, electricians or plumbers get per hour to perform 20 hrs a month for their services? If it is all vollunteer work who really gets the 165,000 dollars total that would normally go to a builder and the contractors for this house? Lastly, where does that money go? I sure as hell didn't get any of it and neither did any of the other "volunteers". Is that dachshund I smell cooking or am I not even in the ball park? Trolls spare us your BS

well hows this for BS
i think you just pointed out that government isnt the solution , its the problem
and that they can not be trusted when it comes to providing services for the needy, 1st off they are wasteful and usually payout more per program than the amount that would have been spent by a private non-prof. organization (where the skilled labor might be volunteers as well) who already provide such services.

so i think we agree on this issue .

oooh... I feel a discussion coming on!

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: What this is indicating it that I must be employed and working the minimum hours OR "participating in a " work activity" to recieve public welfare.

And what is wrong with this? Are you saying that it is wrong to make somebody who is putting strain on the welfare system work if they are so able to do so? The way I see it, this bill does two things: # 1, it gets them off their asses and makes them to something productive; and # 2, the fact that they are being forced to do some sort of service without additional pay might motivate them to enter the workforce and contribute to the betterment of society. Unless you have an honest to goodness job, think of your generous foodstamps and allowance as your paycheck. Personally, I am disgusted by indivduals in good health who refuse to participate in the workforce - it puts significant burden on the welfare system, taking valuable resources which could be better allocated to those in need. Call me a prude - but it doesn't make me too happy to see the tax dollars that I contributed through my hardwork going to somebody who is too lazy to get off their butt and pull their own load. Remember, the best social system is getting a job!!!!

[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 06-10-2004).]

i think i can see where this is going.

Oh cripes. Aren't there more suitable forums for this?

quote Originally posted by loafer87gt: And what is wrong with this? Are you saying that it is wrong to make somebody who is putting strain on the welfare system work if they are so able to do so? The way I see it, this bill does two things: # 1, it gets them off their asses and makes them to something productive; and # 2, the fact that they are being forced to do some sort of service without additional pay might motivate them to enter the workforce and contribute to the betterment of society. Unless you have an honest to goodness job, think of your generous foodstamps and allowance as your paycheck. Personally, I am disgusted by indivduals in good health who refuse to participate in the workforce - it puts significant burden on the welfare system, taking valuable resources which could be better allocated to those in need. Call me a prude - but it doesn't make me too happy to see the tax dollars that I contributed through my hardwork going to somebody who is too lazy to get off their butt and pull their own load. Remember, the best social system is getting a job!!!!

Once again I'll put your narrow minded goose stepping personal attacks aside and attempt to comunicate with what assemblance of reason remains.

1) You did not answer a single question with a proper answer.. did you attend school? It's a quiz not an inquisition so answer the questions ot poke your eyes out, I could care less.
2) As I indicated I don't have a problem with volunteering but I do have a problem with forced labor when gussied as a means of "bettering society"
3) I committed no crime against the community and am therefor not guilty of anything. So why is it I must serve society?

2) It is not forced labor. It is quid pro quo (this for that). You get assistance from the government and you work for a community project. You can opt out simply by not accepting foodstamps and then you won't have to work on habitat for humanity.
3) Society is helping you by providing food stamps. This law says that you have to return some of that help.

There is no $165,000 going to anybody. That money would only exist if the house was sold to a non-needy family that took out a mortgage. The needy family is either paying a reduced amount (like $10,000) or nothing. If they pay a reduced amount, that would probably be used to pay off some of the costs associated with this program. If you really want to find out what is going on, use the Freedom of Information act to find the governmental records associated with HFH.

quote Originally posted by Steve Normington: 2) It is not forced labor. It is quid pro quo (this for that). You get assistance from the government and you work for a community project. You can opt out simply by not accepting foodstamps and then you won't have to work on habitat for humanity. 3) Society is helping you by providing food stamps. This law says that you have to return some of that help.

Yes it is.
I paid taxes for the last 23 years. So exactly what am I getting when I pay them? A 1,000 dollar toilet seat? Maybe free magazine subscriptions for the entire congress? What???

quote Originally posted by Steve Normington: There is no $165,000 going to anybody. That money would only exist if the house was sold to a non-needy family that took out a mortgage. The needy family is either paying a reduced amount (like $10,000) or nothing. If they pay a reduced amount, that would probably be used to pay off some of the costs associated with this program. If you really want to find out what is going on, use the Freedom of Information act to find the governmental records associated with HFH.

Who provided the materials? How much did it cost and if it were donated who benefits from the (peoples) government tax writeoffs and passes the losses off onto the American public?

Looks to me as though you are volunteering help for the needy by paying more and getting less at Ace and Home Depot.. I could be wrong but I believe the corporate sponsors "use" this as a public relations ploy... see how nice we are? Please come to our store and pay higher prices so we have to send our work overseas for cheap labor..

I almost feel like an unwitting pawn in the corporate stealing of the american dream... Please sign here and we will sell it to you on credit. we are nothing but ground hamburgar meat for the cronies to have their thousand dollar burgar at the expense of working america.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 06-10-2004).]

In Texas after any unemployment compensation runs out (it is a very small amount) which is usually within a 6 month period, the state of Texas offers nothing else. This is especially true if you do not have children. Welfare stamps and Lonstar cards are only given to mothers taking care of children that have little or no income. No other relief or emergency monies are offered to single male adults.

I remember going to a Slayer concert and seeing hordes of unemployed homeless people roaming and sleeping within the city streets. I am angry at our govts failure to address this issue.
I've seen the money the U.S. throws around. It goes everywhere except where it should be going.

OUT>

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Yes it is. I paid taxes for the last 23 years. So exactly what am I getting when I pay them? A 1,000 dollar toilet seat? Maybe free magazine subscriptions for the entire congress? What???

You got a international highway system, national system of libraries full of books, publically funded colleges, national parks, museums, disaster relief, public schools, disability insurance, local roads and sidewalks, space exploration, cell phone technology, and many other things.

quote Who provided the materials? How much did it cost and if it were donated who benefits from the (peoples) government tax writeoffs and passes the losses off onto the American public? Looks to me as though you are volunteering help for the needy by paying more and getting less at Ace and Home Depot.. I could be wrong but I believe the corporate sponsors "use" this as a public relations ploy... see how nice we are? Please come to our store and pay higher prices so we have to send our work overseas for cheap labor..

I don't know. I assume the business that donate materials use that as a tax write off. The labor involved (which is most of a house) is probably donated by civic-minded individuals, welfare recipiants, and community groups. So the government gives back $10,000 in taxes and delivers a home worth $50,000. So a needy family gets a $50,000 house. Since you seem to think that is a bad thing, lets look at some alternatives. A) The government takes that $10,000 in tax from Home Depot and gives it directly to the needy family. They use that money to buy a $10,000 house which is old and has been neglected. The civic-minded individuals, welfare recipiants, and community groups do nothing. B) The government reduces Home Depot's taxes by $10,000. The owner donates that money to the needy family and they buy the $10,000 house above. The civic-minded individuals, welfare recipiants, and community groups do nothing. C) The owner of Home Depot uses the $10,000 to buy a big screen TV.

Which way is the family better off? With a new $50,000 house that cost the government $10,000 or with a $10,000 house that cost the government $10,000 or watching a big screen TV from the bushes outside?

Since you are benefiting from a program (food stamps) that takes tax money and gives it to needy people, I would think you would be in favour of giving a house to needy people but I may be wrong.

You are probably right about the stores using this program to bring in sales. People like to think that some of their money is going to a worthy cause. Is that wrong? Should the stores do it quietly? Or not do it at all? As far as sending the work overseas, I don't think that is likely to be caused by just the donations since by your previous statement they get tax breaks from donating materials.

[OT]
One thing I want to know, what exactly do you want? I assume you want the same job you had before at the same pay. If so, how do you propose that happen? If your job was send overseas, does the US pass a law that all labor for US companies be paid in the US? If so, how do you prevent companies outside the US from selling products in the US? Do we exclude all imports? Or do we require that companies that import into the US pay their employees the same as a US employee? What if they make some products for US consumption and some for domestic consumption? Do the employees get paid US wages for a percentage of the time (based on the percentage of US vs total goods)? If so, how do we check to make sure the company is not stretching the truth? If the employees get paid the same wage for all goods, the cost for the domestic goods will shoot way up. Do we demand that all employees in the entire country get paid a US wage regardless of whether the export to the US so that they can now afford the goods that the previous company makes? If so, how do we enforce that?

What if you were laid off? Do we prevent companies from laying off people? If so, what does the company do when they need to reduce expenses? Do they just have everyone work 20 hours a week? What happens if a company goes out of business? Do you continue at your previous salary until you find another job? What happens if you don't look for a job?

Do you not want a job at all? In a previous thread, you had said that going to work would be hastening the end (or something like that). Do you want to get rid of this system of government? If so, what do you propose replacing it with?

Getting a bit defensive, are we? I mention lazy able bodied individuals who refuse to work and you automatically think the comments are directly towards you. OK, I'll bite

1. Now I will go and put my time into this because I feel it is a good cause BUT the luster and gratification has been stolen from me and that quite frankly it angers me; I will not benefit personally from performing such an activity.

My question is who does?

YOU are the benefactor. The food stamps and living allowance provided to you by welfare are payment for your labour.

2. So how much does it cost to build the house that the government will buy at cost and give to a needy person?
How much to carpenters, sheet rockers, electricians or plumbers get per hour to perform 20 hrs a month for their services?
If it is all vollunteer work who really gets the 165,000 dollars total that would normally go to a builder and the contractors for this house?

Along the same lines as 1. The $165,000 is forfeited because those doing the labour have chosen to live off of government assistance instead. The only cost to government is the relatively miniscule cost of the building supplies.

3. Lastly, where does that money go? I sure as hell didn't get any of it and neither did any of the other "volunteers".

Same answer again. You received payment in the form of welfare assistance. If you want to receive a paycheck for your work efforts get a job and pay your taxes like the rest of the population does.

4. Is that dachshund I smell cooking or am I not even in the ball park?

What is your solution then? One minute you are Bush bashing and cursing capitalism, and now your are damning socialism because now you are expected to work for your foodstamps - a system where everyone is expected to be on level ground on the premise that they contribute in some way or another to the betterment of the country. What are you expecting, a big screen tv or a new house for sitting around doing nothing? If you don't like your current economic situation, do something about! Move, try and start a new career, do anything! You seem like a smart enough guy, I just can't see what is holding you back and causing you to wallow in your self pity. It is going to accomplish nothing but continually bring you down.

quote Originally posted by JRM-2M6:

Well ya don't have to agree but it's nice to see that you do.

Thanks for the + input.

Don't you have to sign up for a waiting list to get one of those habitat houses? Have you signed up if you want one? You already are doing the work of building them, isn't that part of qualifying to get one of them too? Do you know exactly what you need to qualify for one of those houses and do you qualify?
As to the value of those houses, it would depend on their location, lot size, and description of the property in question compared to similar houses in the area. The houses will have some value, but will be given away or sold way under their fair market value. I guess once you own it you couls sell it for a profit, but Im wiling to bet that they have some sort of agreement you will have to sign about when you can actually sell it.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Don't you have to sign up for a waiting list to get one of those habitat houses? Have you signed up if you want one? You already are doing the work of building them, isn't that part of qualifying to get one of them too? Do you know exactly what you need to qualify for one of those houses and do you qualify? As to the value of those houses, it would depend on their location, lot size, and description of the property in question compared to similar houses in the area. The houses will have some value, but will be given away or sold way under their fair market value. I guess once you own it you couls sell it for a profit, but Im wiling to bet that they have some sort of agreement you will have to sign about when you can actually sell it.

Good questions
I personally don't want one, I wouldn't mind building one to help pass the time though.

It does give new meaning to civic duty though and I will admit had I not been forced into doing it I may have never considered it.
In addition to the message in my first post.. And something I saw BigBoysToys say in another thread got me thinking.

quote Originally posted by BigBoyToys: this place (TO/T) has become more and more about the poor unfortunate me....me....me....

Anyone want to join me in swinging a hammer to help people?

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Oh cripes. Aren't there more suitable forums for this?

We could only pray.
Then again scrap that thought. That will just start a new religious argument.

------------------

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: International highway system? Highway system: is paid fully by the gasoline tax. It's called "roads and bridges tax" Librarys: are supposed to be funded for the community BY the community, most are paid for by local taxes. publically funded colleges: Show me one, I want to sign up.. oh wait I'm a bum so I don't qualify as an American citizen. mainly funded by grants from the government, corporate and private donations. national parks: are funded by the government, how much do 100,000 park rangers make? (Just grabbing a number out of my ares) museums: Are a private institution paid for mainly through donations and enterence fees. I don't see how this applies. disaster relief: You mean insurance?.. it's a private business. If you don't have insurance .. ya loose, sorry. disability insurance: it's a private business. If you don't have insurance .. ya loose, sorry. public schools: are funded by local municipalities not the federal government. Property tax. local roads and sidewalks: Local municipalities.. Property taxes.. again. space exploration, cell phone technology, and many other things.: A business called NASA and if I'm not mistaken they are not making any money by keeping the shuttle grounded.. Money better spent in the Iraq war I suppose?

You didn't specify that it was only Federal income taxes, so I based my list on all taxes including sales tax.

Much of the revenue for the highways system comes from gasoline taxes but the highway system gets about $4 billion from other taxes.
Library: Libraries and museums received $214 million in Federal funds in 2002.
College: I have a publically funded college about 10 minutes from me. It is called Arizona State University. Universities and smaller colleges received $1.5 billion in Federal funds in 2002.
Parks: $2.5 billion for parks and wildlife management in 2002.
Museums: Libraries and museums received $214 million in Federal funds in 2002.
Disaster relief: Does FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency ) mean anything to you? In 2003, it contributed almost $2 billion to disaster relief. If your community is destroyed by a hurricane, you can get it rebuilt using Federal money. BTW, Florida is the third biggest disaster area after California and Texas.
Disability: Does Social Security mean anything? It doesn't just cover retirement, it also covers disability.
Public Schools: $31.3 billion (not including college) in Federal funds in 2002.
Roads: You didn't specify Federal taxes, so I included all taxes.
NASA is not a business, they are a Federally funded department.
Note that I didn't include the $150 billion in Medicare or $250 billion for Health and Human services.

Link 1
Link 2

And you have still not answered my OT question.

I remember watching a Sam Kinison comedy tape.

He was talking about famine in Africa.

There was a kernel of truth to what he had to say:

"Go where the food is."

Florida is not exactly the high tech capital of the world. The only things redeeming about that state is sunshine and mickey mouse. Other than that you're living in a giant retirement community with an economy geared around entertainment, yard care and the drive thru window--all of it overseen by the most corrupt government that side of Louisiana.

My employer closed their office in Minnesota a couple of years ago and paid all of my moving expenses, gave me extra $$$ and bonuses to move me to Chicago. A week rarely goes by that I (and others in my company) don't get calls from head hunters. Jobs are there for anyone with something more substantial than a high school diploma. Student loans are cheap.

Move to Illinois, New York or the Carolinas and I promise you you'll find work.

-Jeff

quote Originally posted by Steve Normington: Disaster relief: Does FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency ) mean anything to you? In 2003, it contributed almost $2 billion to disaster relief. If your community is destroyed by a hurricane, you can get it rebuilt using Federal money. BTW, Florida is the third biggest disaster area after California and Texas.

As I said before I needed to keep it pithy.

Let’s examine just this one case and then go back and re-read my posts.

This is an example of waste and the government’s inaction to promote the welfare and tranquility of the public in general. It is a multi faceted problem so I can only tackle one problem at a time and shed light where “I” believe it exists. You may wish do disagree if you choose because I seek the answers to the problems myself.

INSURANCE (Big corporations)
The insurance industry is corrupt, what I mean is they collect a mandatory fee from the working masses to protect them from losses. It’s a good program and a great idea, just as I mentioned my mandatory voluntary service mentioned above. In any event the CEO’s and CFO’s and the CEO to the CFO and all the OO’s live and work in opulent extravagant fashion that far exceeds that of their working “clients” cough.. cough.. I mean slaves.

This pretty much covers Insurance but they have ways of not paying their clients when disaster strikes and they suddenly realize they don’t have enough money to cover the overly inflated losses. So what does the insurance company do when the CEO’s friend’s sister in laws brother who is a contractor over inflates the cost of repair for 48 year old Aunt Millie’s house that got blowed down and killed her pet cat fluffy? Why they go to their rich Uncle Sam who is all too happy to provide “a friend of the family” with more money. So who gets the shaft when aunt Millie has to live in a cardboard box and collect food stamps because her business also got blowed down in the same hurricane. Oh all she needs to do is pick up a hammer and do mandatory voluntary service called habitat for humanity to rebuild her own house??

Still with me?

BANKS (Big corporations)
Let’s examine housing in Florida, for that matter housing in general. The sale and purchase of a home is “the American dream”, this dream is corrupt. Rather it is corrupted by corporate greed IE the banks. Again the CEO’s and CFO’s and the CEO to the CFO and all the OO’s live and work in opulent extravagant fashion that far exceeds that of their working clients. However the dream of their clients will be sold to the highest bidder if their bum of a client looses his job.

HOUSING (the American dream) (Big corporations)
Houses are nothing more than a semblance of brick, wood, plastic and sprinklings of glass. It’s not a whole lot of stuff but why does it cost so damn much to buy? I know there is a thing called supply and demand but this is an unregulated supply, or is it? Sure land is about the only limiting factor and all ya need to do is ask a tree hugger, he will tell you that in plain English.

So who determines the value (supply and demand) of a house?
The banks dictate the supply of houses and their amortized value because the again the CEO’s friend’s sister in laws brother who is a contractor is building the houses. It’s no sweat off the CFO’s ass because they ALL will greatly benefit from the building of an absurdly inflated cost to build house that is so shoddily constructed it will hardly stand up to a 35 mph breeze let alone a hurricane. Poor Aunt Millie has no clue what she is buying, she thinks it’s the American dream but it isn’t.

quote Originally posted by Steve Normington: And you have still not answered my OT question.

And you have yet to answer my On Topic question.

Why is it I am required to volunteer my time to build a house so I can collect welfare because my government has sent jobs overseas to help big corporations make more money that has itself cost me my job and a shot at the American dream?

Do I really need to sacrifice my happiness and work at a McJob I hate after spending thousands of dollars and years of my time because I love what I do and chose it as a career? I Know full well that the McJob will NEVER afford me either happiness OR the shot at the American dream. I'm slow but I aint that slow.

I know it may seem as though I am chicken little screaming “tell the King !! tell the King!! The Sky is falling.

I’m not!
All I want you to do is look up and tell me if it is. If it is then tell me who the King is and I will make an appointment in November, I have a very busy schedule ya know.

PS
I just heard rumor that the US wishes to open up “trade” with Cuba.
I think it’s a great idea myself but I wonder what the “starving people of China” will think when they start seeing a “Made in Cuba” label on things they used to make.
Big corporate America sure won’t care because they are making a killing on reduced shipping (due mainly to higher energy costs COUGH… spit cough!!) and pass the “goods” they make back to China for consumption. We all know how prosperous China is. After all their workers have bought the American dream by the sweat of their brow and are demanding higher wages for their services (COUGH cough.. spit rant) I mean pay their credit card bills and get a new hot water heater.

Ya know if it weren't for Reagan dieing I would probably know why it is "Such a wonderfull World"

So "I just think to myself", sometimes I think out loud.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 06-11-2004).]

[ad hominem argument]

Has anyone tried to argue with Jello? I haven't but now I know how it feels.

[/aha]

Here is the answer:

quote Society is helping you by providing food stamps. This law says that you have to return some of that help.

In other words, the law says that when you are getting help, you need to give help. If you get something from society, you should give to society. The government puts out a large amount of money to unemployed people. It feels it is less of a burden on taxpayers if the government gets something of value in return for that money. In this case, the something of value is your labor.

[This message has been edited by Steve Normington (edited 06-11-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Steve Normington: [ad hominem argument] Has anyone tried to argue with Jello? I haven't but now I know how it feels. [/aha] Here is the answer: In other words, the law says that when you are getting help, you need to give help. If you get something from society, you should give to society. The government puts out a large amount of money to unemployed people. It feels it is less of a burden on taxpayers if the government gets something of value in return for that money. In this case, the something of value is your labor.

Ahem
I paid my taxes for 2x years so if I ever fell on hard times my rich Uncle Sam would help me out when I fall on hard times.. Apparently he prefers his rich friends over me and has indentured me to his care.

Last time I read the constitution (in my opening post) it said

quote From the US Constitution We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I don't see where it reads anything about Corporations..

It says "People" not a conglomeration and benefit there of.

We are the people, not the corporations that seek to take all our money in exchange for the American dream. Our government seems to be in bed with the corporations and has seen fit to team up with big business and screw us all.

Hey Steve

------------------
WAKE THE FREAK UP !!!!!!!

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: I paid my taxes for 2x years so if I ever fell on hard times my rich Uncle Sam would help me out when I fall on hard times.. Apparently he prefers his rich friends over me and has indentured me to his care.

You are getting taken care of via food stamps. If you want a level of income that is equal to what you were making before, everyone would have to be taxed something like 4 x what they are now. Would you have wanted to be taxed that much when you were working? And if welfare was as high as you make at a job, what would be the incentive to get a job?

I'm still waiting for an answer or are you going to claim I still haven't answered your question?

quote Originally posted by Steve Normington: I'm still waiting for an answer or are you going to claim I still haven't answered your question?

No.
Because I already heard that BS before... In fact it is law so you really didn't answer my question... Please look up and tell me what you see.

I see a pile of dirt where the sky should be, I was just wondering if you see the same.

Bill just exactly how should the world be run?

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: Bill just exactly how should the world be run?

Like: StarTrek - The Next Generation - Everyone working for the betterment of Humanity - Money NOT being the ruling factor......................

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: No. Because I already heard that BS before... In fact it is law so you really didn't answer my question... Please look up and tell me what you see. I see a pile of dirt where the sky should be, I was just wondering if you see the same.

Yes, I did answer it. The governent is spending money on welfare. They feel they should get something for that money.

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: Bill just exactly how should the world be run?

I could care less about "the world"

What I do care about are us citizens who are required to remain dedicated to a dream that does not exist per sae. Oh sure you can buy it but best make sure you have the ability to make the payments while being inundated with commertialized products on HSN that your wife simply must have and will run the credit cards out for nonsens.

The companies are all to happy to take your money and the banks would love to forclose on your house and leave you in the gutter.. Just sign here and we will "help" fix your credit.

Life is for sale? Since when does sex sell? I know I can't have it the way I want it because some jerkoff thinks I'm a pervert?

It's total mindlessness and madness. Big coprporations will sell your ass down the drain to make a proffit.. Where in the hell is my government?? I need protection and the government sits back and watches them rape me! THEN to top it all off the government FORCES me to work for another company that buys crap from another company that has their MEGA collections department with 10,000 computers, located in India!

Ring... Ring... Hello Mr. presdent?
About those 1 million jobs you claimed to say indicate a strong economy.
WHERE THE HELL IS MINE????

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 06-11-2004).]

Part of the American Dream is keeping your head up in the face of adversity and not letting one unfortunate incident leave you defeated. This attitude you have as of late is going to get you nowhere fast! You have to focus on the positive things - such as that you have a valuable skill which in which there is a great opportunity for you to do freelance work. This way you are your own boss, responsible for you own fate, and not being dependant on the man you so despise. If it's the evil corporations that are outsourcing their work outside the US, hit the smaller grassroots businesses and locals who tend to be more sympathetic to your current predicament. Start by putting up flyers in your neighbourhood offering to do freelance computer diagnostic and repair work. One of my buddies is doing this sort of work during the evenings here, and he makes about $60 CDN an hour doing basic virus removal and system maintenance work. Not satisified with only doing housecalls, he also stopped in at several of the small business around town and presented himself and his skills to them. As time went on, he now has a good client base and is making a very good living. If nothing else, it will put some cash in your pocket, keep your skills honed, and hopefully lift your spirits a bit until you find other employment. Unfortunately, whats done is done, but the ball is in your park now - what you do with it is up to you now.

[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 06-11-2004).]

quote Originally posted by loafer87gt: Part of the American Dream is keeping your head up in the face of adversity and not letting one unfortunate incident leave you defeated. This attitude you have as of late is going to get you nowhere fast! You have to focus on the positive things - you have a skill which in which there is a great opportunity for you to do freelance work. This way you are your own boss, responsible for you own fate, and not being dependant on the man you so despise. Start by putting up flyers in your neighbourhood offering to do freelance computer diagnostic and repair work. One of my buddies is doing this sort of work during the evenings here, and he makes about $60 CDN an hour doing basic virus removal and system maintenance work. Not satisified with only doing housecalls, he also stopped in at several of the small business around town and presented himself and his skills to them. As time went on, he now has a good client base and is making a very good living. If nothing else, it will put some cash in your pocket, keep your skills honed, and hopefully lift your spirits a bit until you find other employment. Unfortunately, whats done is done, but the ball is in your park now - what you do with it is up to you now.

Thanks for taking note of my sacrefices, war is indeed HELL!
I have declaired war on Bull Sht, just so happens I look like sht. Sorry if that offends but aint no sense giving up because you see the battle as futile, go ahead and enjoy being taken to the cleaners. You and many others are the very reason it is futile! It won't stop me! Even if I get a job I will still be here and I will still be shooting sht. Probeably with high speed internet connection instead of 56k! I'm sure you will just love that idea.

Anyway I do have money, not much but it covers all I need and a little to spare, in fact I just baught you and me some more time to sit and shoot the sht.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 06-11-2004).]

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Here is another communist / nazi rule that the "party" has decided would best "help" society. Though I agree with the "spirit" of this law I feel the law itself is nothing more than a form of forced labor. AS I SAID the cause is ok but there is an undelying problem. I find the "problem" a bit troubeling personally The Personal "Responsibility" and Work Oppertunity Act. (Public Law 104-193) It states that any able bodied person between the ages of 18 and 50 without dependants must be "employed" at least 20 hr a week or participating in a "work" activity to recieve foodstamps (public welfare) benefits. What this is indicating it that I must be employed and working the minimum hours OR "participating in a " work activity" to recieve public welfare. Somehow it is worded in such a way that I can't quite grasp how they did it. It basically means I must avail myself to "work" community service. I really don't have a problem with volunterring my time and energy to a good cause BUT I do have a problem with not being "compensated" for it.

I think that's the whole idea: You said: "I do have a problem with not being compensated with it". They probably want you to feel this way. It seems like an attempt to keep people from using it long term. The way I see it: they want you to think...hey, I'm working 20 hours a week for "nothing", why don't I go find a job which will pay me money for those 20 hours. It would encourage me to press harder in my looking for a job. Kind of a way of encouraging people to take care of themselves.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Where I came from mandatory community service was often "used" as a punnishment for offenders of minor crimes agains the community. It was designed to serve as a means of instilling civic duty into those that casued damage to it. Now I will go and put my time into this because I feel it is a good cause BUT the luster and gratification has been stolen from me and that quite frankly it angers me; I will not benefit personally from performing such an activity.

Like I said above, I don't think they want you to benefit from it...at least not financially. It's a way to get you to look even harder for a job...or any job to hold you over till you find the right one.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: My question is who does? I "volunteered" to "work" for habitat for humanity. It seems to be a wonderfull way to give something special to those in need and I am never above helping another person. All I get is satisfaction but that is only if I volunteer and in my case I did not choose too. So how much does it cost to build the house that the government will buy at cost and give to a needy person? How much to carpenters, sheet rockers, electricians or plumbers get per hour to perform 20 hrs a month for their services? If it is all vollunteer work who really gets the 165,000 dollars total that would normally go to a builder and the contractors for this house? Lastly, where does that money go? I sure as hell didn't get any of it and neither did any of the other "volunteers". Is that dachshund I smell cooking or am I not even in the ball park? Trolls spare us your BS

I've had my share of building experience...mostly roofing, but our company would get "involved" in new construction sometimes....good winter work. There is a tremendous amount of labor expense associated with new construction. I roofed a habitat house in Georgia in the spring of 1997. Didn't want to go down there, but my girlfriend at the time was really into it. Guess you could say I was whipped. With habitat, you can basically take the labor cost away. Materials are usually donated or purchased at cost. Where I worked, the food was even donated, so all the workers were fed (and fed well) everyday of the job.

The thing is, it's a low cost program, so that big money ($165000) is not there to be made. This is totally different than a private builder building me a house an me purchasing it for $165000.

[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 06-11-2004).]

Thanks ditch

Ya know I was thinking about an analogy while standing outside smoking a (government subsidized product that I am addicted to and is deadly) cigarette and just wanting to toot on a nice fat line of cocaine or speed.

I came up with the idea that most people are all blind men being beaten up by a bunch of bullies. They got me too but I can see where they are and I shout warnings to them. Instead of swinging their cane in the direction I am indicating the bad guys are, they turn toward the sound of my voice and whack the hell out of me. Ya know I have my arms held behind my back too. but they continually whack at me, It doesn't hurt much, more of an annoyance but it is yet another bump on the head I have to deal with.

I really don't understand why I do it.

All this from a guy that had ADD (didn't exist at the time) as a child, was thrown in special education (yeah I rode the little bus) and left highschool in 11th grade, joined the military, got a GED, went to a vocational school, passed with a 4.0 GPA, was active in student government (my god what a waste of time.. but the donuts were worth it) and got a really good job doing what I have always loved to do BUT has turned into a nightmare... for me.

I'm constantly being misdiagnosed..

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 06-11-2004).]

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Thanks ditch Ya know I was thinking about an analogy while standing outside smoking a (government subsidized product that I am addicted to and is deadly) cigarette and just wanting to toot on a nice fat line of cocaine or speed. I came up with the idea that you people are all blind men being beaten up by a bunch of bullies. They got me too but I can see where they are and I shout warnings to you. Instead of swinging your cane in the direction I am indicating they are you turn toward me and whack the hell out of me. Ya know I have my arms held behind my back too. but you continually whack at me, It doesn't hurt much, more of an annoyance but it is yet another bumb on the head I have to deal with. I really don't understand why I do it.

Clear line of sight?

have you tried hitting yourself really hard on the head?
It might work.Youll never know until you try.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Clear line of sight?

LMAO!

Speaking of which

There are now 5 or 6 squrrels that take peanuts out of my hand. It's funny as hell to watch them all scurry over from a 4 house arc that is in the line of sight.

They just come bounding over without fail and I think it's the greatest damn feeling to know I earned their trust.

I don't need life to fit me, I fit in life very well and I am the happiest just that way. I don't need to conform to rules others dictate, I just need to follow the ones I feel are best for me.

It's a shame the rules have gotten all screwed up because all I need is a crackerbox house and a few bucks to pay for the basics. However peanuts are what I want to buy, not work for.

God as my witness I am telling you the truth about at least this. Here is the proof.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 06-11-2004).]