"This study found that influenza vaccination of working-aged adults was associated with a higher risk of influenza during the 2024-2025 respiratory viral season, suggesting that the vaccine has not been effective in preventing influenza this season."
Actually if you read that sentence again, it is suggesting more than it "not been effective in preventing influenza", it is stating that "This study found that influenza vaccination of working-aged adults was associated with a higher risk of influenza during the 2024-2025 respiratory viral season" (its kinda strange that they worded that sentence like that, no?) https://www.medrxiv.org/con...025.01.30.25321421v3
In an analysis adjusted for age, sex, clinical nursing job, and employment location, the risk of influenza was significantly higher for the vaccinated compared to the unvaccinated state...
It seems obvious to me that they've (purposely?) left out one very important factor... that being the relative health of the participants in the study. I don't think it would be out of line to suggest that people with health issues (due to genetics and/or lifestyle) might be more inclined to get the flu vaccine than those who are at the peak of health/fitness. Therefore, it stands to reason that a good portion of those people who chose to receive the flu vaccine might still get the flu.
I'd like to see the results of a study like this one when all the participants are of the same general health.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-25-2025).]
It seems obvious to me that they've (purposely?) left out one very important factor... that being the relative health of the participants in the study. I don't think it would be out of line to suggest that people with health issues (due to genetics and/or lifestyle) might be more inclined to get the flu vaccine than those who are at the peak of health/fitness. Therefore, it stands to reason that a good portion of those people who chose to receive the flu vaccine might still get the flu.
I'd like to see the results of a study like this one when all the participants are of the same general health.
It might be hard to quantify something like that... but you could probably do it by age and BMI I suppose. I know that most of my friends (who are all generally healthy) get the flu shot every year.
I never do personally... just not my thing. I've had hundreds of vaccinations when I worked for the agency... everything from Anthrax to multiple MMR and DTAPs for some dumb reason... and Typhoid and who knows what else, every time I had to travel. I always got a day off after and I just felt downright horrible. I rarely get the flu, so I'd rather my normal interactions in society build up my immunity.
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 04-25-2025).]
It seems obvious to me that they've (purposely?) left out one very important factor... that being the relative health of the participants in the study. I don't think it would be out of line to suggest that people with health issues (due to genetics and/or lifestyle) might be more inclined to get the flu vaccine than those who are at the peak of health/fitness. Therefore, it stands to reason that a good portion of those people who chose to receive the flu vaccine might still get the flu.
I'd like to see the results of a study like this one when all the participants are of the same general health.
I don't think they "left that out", its just something they didn't feel was important - because its an obvious thing -
I believe the participants were all employees of a company, which means they were probably all "healthy enough" to be at work the day they received the shot. (Many offices offer the shot for free at work, especially those who work in the "healthcare sector" you sign up (or they just show up in a room where "Flu shot" is scribbled on a piece of copy paper in sharpie ) They are all probably hybrid or "full time in the office". In other words, its 'probably' folks 21-65 years of age that are healthy enough to be a consistent worker bee.
I've gotten the shot a few times because I was in the office that day, but probably would not take a day off of work to go get the shot from my doctor. Do they "work"? I dunno. I don't get the flu too often. YMMV
I believe the participants were all employees of a company, which means they were probably all "healthy enough" to be at work the day they received the shot.
You and I may have a different idea of what good health/fitness actually is. Sure, someone can be "healthy enough" to drag themselves into work. Simply being able to show up at work (especially at a sedentary job) is no real indicator of a person's general health and fitness.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-25-2025).]
Originally posted by TheDigitalAlchemist: "This study found that influenza vaccination of working-aged adults was associated with a higher risk of influenza during the 2024-2025 respiratory viral season, suggesting that the vaccine has not been effective in preventing influenza this season.
There is a new vaccine every year, trying to guess the ailment of the year.
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 04-26-2025).]
It has been a very long time (decades) since i've had influenza. I do get the flu shot every year and have had a LOT of other vaccinations over the decades including all the covid jabs except the latest one. Just haven't gotten around to that one..
The study is pretty open about it's limitations and what it is trying to look at:
From the "Discussions" section:
"Because this is an observational study, associations are not evidence of causation."
"Our findings apply to working-aged healthcare employees in a single geographic area, and not necessarily to children, the elderly, or the general population."
"We did not have complete information on prior infection or immunity."
"Vaccinated individuals were more likely to be tested for influenza, which could have contributed to an observed higher incidence in that group."
"As in all observational studies, there may be unmeasured confounders that influenced both the likelihood of vaccination and the likelihood of infection."
From the "Conclusion":
"Our findings underscore the need for continued efforts to improve influenza vaccines and better understand their performance in real-world conditions."
I think these findings need to be taken in the context of what the flu vaccine is actually for; it isn't meant to prevent you from getting the infection, but rather to lower the risk of transmission and reduce severity in vulnerable populations. Remember that this site posts pre-peer reviewed articles, so how this was conducted has not been scrutinized, but assuming it passes peer review I would think it has more implications on prevention mechanisms within healthcare environments.
I think these findings need to be taken in the context of what the flu vaccine is actually for; it isn't meant to prevent you from getting the infection, but rather to lower the risk of transmission and reduce severity in vulnerable populations. Remember that this site posts pre-peer reviewed articles, so how this was conducted has not been scrutinized, but assuming it passes peer review I would think it has more implications on prevention mechanisms within healthcare environments.
