Unbelievable ! Firefighters from around the country are detained while THEIR trucks are certified to be deemed safe by California standards.
Here's something even more unbelievable. During the 2003 Cedar Fire, we lived in Scripps Ranch, which had several hundred homes destroyed. I recall the neighborhood standing on the crest of a hill, watching the flames approach, cars loaded and ready to roll. At the last minute a wind shift sent the fire down a different canyon and a huge portion of the south side of the community was reduced to ashes. (Interestingly, during the many-year rebuilding process, we were amazed to see EVERY single rebuilt home was about twice the size of the original home! Think about that for a while ...)
Anyway, Miramar Naval Air Station (now a Marine air base), being across I15 from the conflagration, offered CalFire the use of their NINE water-dropping helicopters and crews, but were TURNED DOWN because the helicopters were not (you guessed it ...) California certified!! This little news story would never have seen the light of day except for the quick-thinking Commander at Miramar: incensed by the stupidity of the bureaucracy, he ordered the helicopters up to do water-dropping exercises on the BASE. Since the sky was filled with news helicopters, reporters (which we still had in those days) noticed the exercises and began inquiring why they weren't being used to help put out the fire! The Governor promised to fix that lack-of-cooperation problem, but in view of what just happened with the fire trucks, methinks the bureaucracy is alive and well.
Here's something even more unbelievable. During the 2003 Cedar Fire, we lived in Scripps Ranch, which had several hundred homes destroyed. I recall the neighborhood standing on the crest of a hill, watching the flames approach, cars loaded and ready to roll. At the last minute a wind shift sent the fire down a different canyon and a huge portion of the south side of the community was reduced to ashes. (Interestingly, during the many-year rebuilding process, we were amazed to see EVERY single rebuilt home was about twice the size of the original home! Think about that for a while ...)
Anyway, Miramar Naval Air Station (now a Marine air base), being across I15 from the conflagration, offered CalFire the use of their NINE water-dropping helicopters and crews, but were TURNED DOWN because the helicopters were not (you guessed it ...) California certified!! This little news story would never have seen the light of day except for the quick-thinking Commander at Miramar: incensed by the stupidity of the bureaucracy, he ordered the helicopters up to do water-dropping exercises on the BASE. Since the sky was filled with news helicopters, reporters (which we still had in those days) noticed the exercises and began inquiring why they weren't being used to help put out the fire! The Governor promised to fix that lack-of-cooperation problem, but in view of what just happened with the fire trucks, methinks the bureaucracy is alive and well.
While I am not shocked by this, it is unfortunately something that doesn't surprise me. It should take a wildfire of this magnitude for state leadership to recognize that with the forest in the back yard of communities, additional fire protection would be needed. Who the hell is in charge out there? Obviously, no one with any real common sense!
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-25-2025).]
If the next four years don't go well for Trump, I think we will see President Newsom 2028. I'm NOT happy typing that. I'm just typing it out. Just like I'm typing out "Mayor of NY Andrew Cuomo"
If the next four years don't go well for Trump, I think we will see President Newsom 2028. I'm NOT happy typing that. I'm just typing it out. Just like I'm typing out "Mayor of NY Andrew Cuomo"
ugh.
lets just hope my dumb fingers are dumb.
I have no doubt Newsom will try to be the Democrats candidate but, all that's really necessary to knock him down is to show his record as California's leader. I can't imagine anyone failing as much as he has to get that far in a Presidential election.
Originally posted by Notorio: Miramar Naval Air Station (now a Marine air base), being across I15 from the conflagration, offered CalFire the use of their NINE water-dropping helicopters and crews, but were TURNED DOWN because the helicopters were not (you guessed it ...) California certified!! This little news story would never have seen the light of day except for the quick-thinking Commander at Miramar: incensed by the stupidity of the bureaucracy, he ordered the helicopters up to do water-dropping exercises on the BASE. Since the sky was filled with news helicopters, reporters (which we still had in those days) noticed the exercises and began inquiring why they weren't being used to help put out the fire! The Governor promised to fix that lack-of-cooperation problem, but in view of what just happened with the fire trucks, methinks the bureaucracy is alive and well.
You are right. More unbelievable. Asinine.
I bear no bad vibes or thoughts of weakness to the Commander. If I were Commander I would have told my boys to do it anyway. What could the State Gestapos have done ? Shoot them down ? Sue them for using unauthorized air space ?
You bring up an interesting thought. Are the military's capabilities being used this time ?
I have no doubt Newsom will try to be the Democrats candidate but, all that's really necessary to knock him down is to show his record as California's leader. I can't imagine anyone failing as much as he has to get that far in a Presidential election.
Rams
Yes, I agree that Newsome is going to go for 2028. Nancy Pelosi's machine will be behind him 100%, even though he is regrettably a White, Straight, Male Pre-fire he was a shoo-in but now I think it would be another tight race.
Meanwhile, as sensible Californians are looking forward to his term-limiting out as Governor, methinks Kamala Harris will take his place. It's a step down from running for President again, but as the World's fifth largest economy, the prestige is still high. After two terms as Governor, she'd also be in a much stronger position to take the White House (gasp -- when will we roll back to the original title of the 'President's Palace' or even the 'Executive Mansion'?? I need to go find my emotional support animals ...)
Originally posted by cliffw: You are right. More unbelievable. Asinine.
I bear no bad vibes or thoughts of weakness to the Commander. If I were Commander I would have told my boys to do it anyway. What could the State Gestapos have done ? Shoot them down ? Sue them for using unauthorized air space ?
You bring up an interesting thought. Are the military's capabilities being used this time ?
Cliff, I honestly don't know if there is any better integration of military assets today or not. My guess is 'not.' This might be a job for ChatGPT (to review all the news coverage and see if there is any mention of National Guard, Navy, etc.) ...
Yes, I agree that Newsome is going to go for 2028. Nancy Pelosi's machine will be behind him 100%, even though he is regrettably a White, Straight, Male Pre-fire he was a shoo-in but now I think it would be another tight race.
Meanwhile, as sensible Californians are looking forward to his term-limiting out as Governor, methinks Kamala Harris will take his place. It's a step down from running for President again, but as the World's fifth largest economy, the prestige is still high. After two terms as Governor, she'd also be in a much stronger position to take the White House (gasp -- when will we roll back to the original title of the 'President's Palace' or even the 'Executive Mansion'?? I need to go find my emotional support animals ...)
While I don't doubt Newsom will attempt to be the Democratic nominee, he still has to get enough support from the rest of the nation to be that nominee. That may happen but, I don't believe (at this point) he has a snow balls chance in hell of beating J. D. Vance. Things could change but, the proof is in the pudding.
maryjane, I have been to your house in Cleveland TX just outside of N Houston. In the middle of a National forest. Thick with trees, Pine.
I can not picture how the forest floor can be cleared of dead tree fire fuel.
Very easily. Controlled burns, or what they called 'prescribed burns'. The US and Texas Forest service did it every year, switching from section to section. The crap on the forest floor burns but the fire doesn't get up into the tree limbs or tops. They are basically replicating what nature (via lightening) would do every few years. Texas A&M has a big part in deciding which area needs a burn and when. It works.
Do the controlled burns sometimes get out of hand? Probably, but not very often. Now, most of what you read about a prescribed burn by the Forest Service says they do them only under certain weather and growing conditions. That's BS in East Texas. Them suckers burn day or night, burn ban,wind or calm...because they're so good at controlling and fighting fires. The whole county can be in a absolute lockdown red flag burn ban, where ya can't even legally light your bbq grill, and the Forest Service guys will be out there burning thousands of acres. They know their business.
They pay attention to ONLY 1 thing. Humidity. They won't light anything if humidity is low.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-27-2025).]
The annual wildfire fighting exercise in Calif is held at USMC Camp Pendleton. Marines, navy and civilian firefighters work together to develop and train using air assets to fight wildfires.
Camp Pendleton, much like Fort Hood here, has had it's own share of munition caused wildfires. They've gotten pretty good at fighting their own and other folks' fires.
Unlike USMC where both Pendleton and Miramar has a lot of air assets, there really is just a handfull of helos here at Fort hood nowadays, as Ft Hood is an armor installation and it is HQ of 3rd Corps. But, most of Third Corps' helos are at Ft Riley Kansas now. Nothing at Ft Hood but armor, arty, a few UH60s and a small handfull of Chinooks. Just enough aviation to support training and emergencies. Oh, and 1 full armor division... with room and support for a 2nd one I'm told.
This sure as hell shook the house and woke me up a few days ago. MICLIC. by the time I got out to the back porch, all I could see was the cloud of smoke going up in the air. I didn't know what it was till I read about it yesterday on Ft Hood's website.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-27-2025).]
Here is an update based on my own research and doing a project with ChatGPT.
1) The 2003 Cedar fire which destroyed the 'old' side of Scripps Ranch. This was, until now, the largest wildfire event destroying 300 homes and damaging another 200. I was able to find After Action Reviews and other documents. My claim about the Marine helicopters was not entirely correct. After TWO DAYS of training and inspections, the assets were put to limited use (restricted to certain areas) and the fire was largely over. They completed about 50 water drops, a mere fraction of what they could have done two days earlier.
2) For the Palisades fire of 2025, I am shocked to find that significant military assets WERE in fact used. California DID learn some lessons from prior experience that helped fight the fire! Below I am pasting in ChatGPT's analysis:
"In response to the 2025 Palisades Fire in California, a comprehensive deployment of military assets was instrumental in supporting firefighting and relief operations. The contributions included:
Personnel:
California National Guard: Approximately 600 Soldiers from Task Force 49, primarily from the 49th Military Police Brigade, were mobilized to ensure safety and security in affected areas. Their duties encompassed operating traffic control points and conducting roving patrols to prevent unauthorized access and looting.
Source - NATIONALGUARD.MIL
Active-Duty Military: The Department of Defense deployed 500 active-duty Marines from Camp Pendleton to assist with various tasks, including route clearance, commodity distribution, search and rescue, and general support.
Source - DEFENSE.GOV
Aerial Assets:
Helicopters: The U.S. Navy provided 10 helicopters equipped with water delivery buckets from bases such as Naval Station North Island, Marine Corps Air Station Camp Pendleton, and Marine Corps Air Station Miramar. These assets were crucial for aerial firefighting operations.
Source - DEFENSE.GOV
Modular Airborne Fire Fighting System (MAFFS): Air National Guard units, including the 146th Airlift Wing from California, deployed C-130 aircraft equipped with MAFFS. These systems can disperse up to 3,200 gallons of fire retardant in seconds, significantly bolstering aerial firefighting capabilities.
Source - NATIONALGUARD.MIL
Ground Support:
Engineering Units: National Guard engineering teams assisted in clearing debris and backfilling firebreaks to prevent mudslides and mitigate further damage.
Source - NATIONALGUARD.MIL
This coordinated effort between federal and state military resources played a pivotal role in combating the Palisades Fire and supporting affected communities."
The three dams that were eliminated/tore down were by the Oregon border- and the water was only used for power generation....The three reservoirs were basically silted up to where they were no longer effective....Also, the water could NEVER reach any part of California except straight to the coast at the very northern edge of California.
Here is an actual map....
Also, the "CA Blocking Oregon fire trucks" story on social media is BS....And, water from the Pacific northwest cannot flow into California- unless someone spends a Trillion dollars building new canals and tunnels....
[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 01-29-2025).]